Neil de St. Sauveur
Rebecca
cobbled together based on various online sources. I have not included
dates because they vary so widely as to be useless. They tend to run
from 800+ ce to 1050
ce.
1. Malahule/Malahute (Haldrick) Eysteinsson m Maude De St. Pol Sur Mer
De Therouanne
2. Richard De Saint Sauveur
3. *Nigel/Neil De Saint Sauveur m. Espriota (Sprote) De Senlis
4. Richard/Rogerus/Roger Magnus De Saint Sauveur m. ??
5. *Neil m. Helena of Normandy or Adele D'eu
6. *Neil m. Helena of Normandy or Adele D'eu
6. Billeheude de Saint Sauveur m. Robert Bigod
Are there any more Neils in the line that I need to know about?
Rebecca
Todd A. Farmerie
> Can anyone sort out the Neils in this branch? This is what I've
> cobbled together based on various online sources. I have not included
> dates because they vary so widely as to be useless. They tend to run
> from 800+ ce to 1050
> ce.
>
>
> 1. Malahule/Malahute (Haldrick) Eysteinsson m Maude De St. Pol Sur Mer
> De Therouanne
This man, IIRC, was invented by medieval Norman writers. That the St.
Sauveurs descend from him appears to be a 19th century invention. Maude
de St. Pol is an invention more recent than that.
> 2. Richard De Saint Sauveur
>
> 3. *Nigel/Neil De Saint Sauveur m. Espriota (Sprote) De Senlis
Sprota "de Senlis" (sic) was the mistress of William Longsword and wife
of Asperleng, and made no marriage to a St. Sauveur.
> 4. Richard/Rogerus/Roger Magnus De Saint Sauveur m. ??
This, presumably, should be Roger - not that this is accurate, it's just
that Roger is what appears in the traditional pedigree at this point.
> 5. *Neil m. Helena of Normandy or Adele D'eu
>
> 6. *Neil m. Helena of Normandy or Adele D'eu
> 6. Billeheude de Saint Sauveur m. Robert Bigod
>
> Are there any more Neils in the line that I need to know about?
The line as you have (with the exception of the two early wives) is the
line that appears in Turton, based on two family histories from the
1880s. I don't believe there is any historical basis for it prior to
generation 5 (or maybe 4 - this is a family that could use a modern study).
It has recently been proposed that this man, Niel (I) married a daughter
of Robert, Count of Avranches, while Niel (II) married Adele, sister of
Richard, William, and Baldwin de Redvers. Among other children, the
latter had a daughter Bilelda (perhaps the intended above, yet I am
unaware of whom she married) and two sons named William, with whom at
least three different Conquest-era Williams have been identified.
This is, for some reason, a popular family to which to invent a
connection, so I must ask the basis for your interest. If it is through
the Bigods, I would recommend care - there was a Robert Bigod in the
Cotetin (where the St. Sauveur held sway), but he was married to an
Emma. Come to think of it, I would recommend care even if it isn't
through the Bigods.
taf
Luke Potter
the Saint Saveurs I have in my notes a reference as follows:
Source: M. Guerard, _Cartularie de L'Abbaye de Saint Pere de Chartres_ (2
vols, Paris 1840), vol.i, p.152-3.
Grant by Richard brother of William and Baldwin of a third of Gausberti
Villa to abbey. Brother in Law named as Nigel. No Date.
'Gausberti Villa' crops up again from the period of 1132-1150 in an
agreement between the Abbey and Richard de Redvers, who had killed one of
their monks. [op.cit, vol.ii, pp.612-3] Richard granted various land to the
abbey as well as a third part of the church of 'Gausberti Villa' and its
tithes. Can anyone identify this place?
Luke
J.C.B.Sharp
lwrp...@gmail.com (Luke Potter) wrote:
Gourbesville, canton Sainte-Mere-Eglise, Manche.
J.C.B.Sharp
London
JeanJacques
1 Richard I c912
2 Neel I c938
3 Richard II
4 Neel II fought the english at Barfleur in 1002
5 Neel III (Val es dune battle 1045) died in 1092
Neel III has 2 sons named Neel IV and Robert fitz Nigel who is Sire de Jort,
first possessor of Rouvres (see also charter N°140 Fauroux, Rev. Statham)
This Rob. fizt Nigel appeared to be also the Rob. de Jort found in Leic.
Domesday Book(c.1086).
Delisle (Histoire de St Sauveur) says also that Neel III& adele de Reviers
had 3 daughters Emma, Billeul et Mathilde and 4 sons Roger, Guillaume,
Guillaume b and Girard
Jean Jacques
Rebecca <RLT4...@aol.com> a écrit dans le message :
1121097587.6...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
WJho...@aol.com
writes:
<< I have found from a document in Normandy Archives du Calvados:
1 Richard I c912
2 Neel I c938
3 Richard II
4 Neel II fought the english at Barfleur in 1002
5 Neel III (Val es dune battle 1045) died in 1092 >>
What document?
I'm naturally suspicious of any document that purports to trace the
relationship of five generations of persons and using dates that extend almost over a
200 year period.
Who wrote this? And how reliable might they be?
Thanks
Will Johnson
Rebecca
>>>This is, for some reason, a popular family to which to invent a
connection, so I must ask the basis for your interest. If it is through
the Bigods, I would recommend care - there was a Robert Bigod in the
Cotetin (where the St. Sauveur held sway), but he was married to an
Emma. Come to think of it, I would recommend care even if it isn't
through the Bigods.<<<
...................
Thank you, Todd, for the information.
Yes, my line is allegedly through the Bigod line.
I knew that most of our genealogy beyond my g-g-grandparents (Lashbrooks
& Coles)is not verified, at best, and downright fanciful at worst. (I
have a couple of "trees" that show that I am decended from the Norse
Goddess, Freya and her husband-god, Odin!! We take this with more than
a grain of salt.) It's fun to imagine being descended from all those
heros, warriors, emperors, and gods, and if it gets my next generation
interested in it, from a historical/cultural perspective, I'm happy.
One way or another, we probably are descended from some of them. I've
made it very clear in my records that most of the data beyond the 1850s
is pure speculation. I do have a Schram line that is verified into the
16th century.
It's interesting to find that the St. Sauveurs, et al may be entirely
made up. Do those so-called records say anything about why someone
would do that? I do see the humor in having an imaginary line with the
names Strange, Bigod (by god), Sauveur (savior) leading back to the
ancient Gods. Even if all of them did exixt, it's still funny.
Now that I have found lists that have some experts (albeit sometimes
self-proclaimed) I may try making more solid connections between some of
my ancestors.
Are there any reasonably reliable genealogy websites for the medieval
lines?
Rebecca
--
Sent via Genealogy Newsgroups
http://www.genealogynewsgroups.com
Rebecca
convoluted database. Maybe eventually I will be able to weave them all
together.
JeanJacques
<WJho...@aol.com> a écrit dans le message :
154.54eabe...@aol.com...
of an original family document now lost or may be destroyed.
The 1903 doc. belongs to the Archives du Calvados France (Série 2E Famille
de Jort).
The genealogist is reliable and his work is often a reference for the
Calvados (Caen area).
The original work has been certainly done by a well aware and documented
norman historian.
I date the original work before 18th c may be the 15th c.
I try to crosscheck the informations with other known sources.
For instance I try to verify and gather all info. available on Robert Sire
de Jort son of Nigel (c. 1060)
which could validate or not this data.
So far I have 2 hints. the charter N°140 from receuil des actes de Normandie
( Marie Fauroux) and rev. Statham who mentions also Robert Fils Nigel as a
bastard of Neel III.
The charter says: Contess Lesline granted the Church of Jort with six
fields which belong to Robertus Filius Nigelli for his brothers and sisters
to St Désir de Lisieux Abbays.date1049-1058
Another Ref. Round J. H. Calendar p201 N°575
I found this thank to Keats Rohan prosopography book where Keats-Rohan does
the link between Robert Fitz Neel and Rob. de Jort which seems to confirm
the 1903 doc.
Thank.
Jean Jacques