Revised List of Bastard Children of King Edward IV
Douglas Richardson
A few days ago, I posted a list of the known illegitimate children of
Edward IV, King of England (died 1483). Since posting, I've been
contacted by two newsgroup members each of whom has added a new
potential illegitimate child of King Edward IV. On my own, I've found
additional sources for two of the previously identified illegitimate
children. I've also found a reference to yet another alleged
illegitimate daughter in a late visitation who reputedly married into
the Musgrave family. I haven't included that child in the list below,
as I haven't yet confirmed that such a child and marriage occurred.
If anyone has anything to add to the information below or possesses
any information on a possible illegitimate daughter who married a
Musgrave, please post that information here on the newsgroup or
contact me at my e-mail address below.
Many thanks to Peter Sutton and James Trabue for sharing their
information with me.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
E-mail: royala...@msn.com
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
List of Illegitimate Children of King Edward IV
Illegitimate child of Edward IV of England, by an unknown mistress,
possibly Elizabeth Lucy:
i. ELIZABETH PLANTAGENET, married before 1477 THOMAS LUMLEY, Knt., son
and heir apparent of George Lumley, Knt., Lord Lumley, by Elizabeth,
daughter and heiress of Roger Thornton, Esq. They had four sons,
Richard [Lord Lumley], John, George, and Roger, Esq., and three
daughters, Anne (wife of Robert Ogle, 4th Lord Ogle), Sibyl (wife of
William Hilton, Knt., de jure 9th Lord Hylton), and Elizabeth (wife of
Robert Cresswell, Esq.). SIR THOMAS LUMLEY was living 27 Oct. 1495,
and died prior to 1507. Descendants (not traced). [Note: Additional
evidence of Elizabeth's parentage may be seen in the papal
dispensation granted in 1489 for Elizabeth's son, Richard Lumley, to
marry Anne Conyers, they being related in the [3rd and] 4th degree of
kindred. A dispensation was needed for this marriage, as the two
parties were both descended from Ralph Neville, K.G., 1st Earl of
Westmorland, and his wife, Joan Beaufort (see Testamenta Eboracensia 3
(Surtees Soc., vol. 45) (1865): 355)]. Collins-Brydges, Peerage of
England 3 (1812): 703 (citing MS. E. 6, f. 5, b. in Offic. Arm.). R.
Surtees, Hist. & Antiq. of the County Palatine of Durham 2 (1820): 139
(Lumley monument in Chester-le-Street, co. Durham church: " ... inde
pater efficitur illius Thomae qui ex magni Regis Edovardi quarti filia
naturali, Richardum susceperat ..."), 140 (monumental inscription at
Chester-le-Street: "Sir Thomas Lumley, Knight, sonne of George Lord
Lumley, maried Elizabeth, daughter naturel to Kinge Edwarde the
fourth, and he died in the life of his father, and had issue Richard
Lord Lumley") (Elizabeth's arms: 1. France and England; 2. a plain
cross of Ulster; 3. as 2; 4. barry of six, on a chief three pallets,
between two esquires' bastions, dexter and sinister, an inescutcheon
Argent, Mortimer, over all a bar sinister), 162-164 (Lumley chart).
Surtees Soc. 41 (1862): 27 (1530 Vis. Durham) (Lumley pedigree:
"Thomas Lumley, son and heyre to George, maried Elisabeth, bastard
doughter to Kyng Edward the iiijth"). R. Surtees, Hist. & Antiq. of
the County Palatine of Durham 2 (1820): 163-164. H.S.P. 16 (1881):
189-190 (1563/4 Vis. Yorkshire) (Lumley pedigree: "Thomas Lord Lomley
son & heyr to George = Elsabeth bastard doughter to Kyng Edward the
Fourth"). J. Foster, Pedigrees Recorded at the Visitations of the
County Palatine of Durham (1887), pg. 216 (Lumley pedigree: "Thomas
Lumley, son and heire = Elizabeth, bastard dau. of Edward IV"). C.P.
7 (1929): 30 (sub Hylton); 8 (1932): 274 (sub Lumley); 10 (1945):
33-34. TAG 50 (1974): 81-86. M.S. Byrne, The Lisle Letters (1981)
[citing Harleian MS. 4033, f. 21 (23) v; Leland's Itinerary VI, f.
63]. Chris Given-Wilson & A. Curteis, Royal Bastards of Medieval
England (1984), pp. 160-161,179.
Illegitimate child of Edward IV of England, by a mistress, Elizabeth
Wayte:
i. ARTHUR PLANTAGENET (otherwise ARTHUR WAYTE), K.G., King’s
Spear, Esquire of the Body, Sheriff of Hampshire, Vice-Admiral of
England, Trier of Petitions in Parliament, Governor of Calais, Warden
of the Cinque Ports, Privy Councillor, born say 1475 (presumed to be
“my Lord the Bastard” mentioned in an Exchequer account
dated 1477, first occurs as an adult in 1501). He married (1st) 12
Nov. 1511 ELIZABETH GREY, suo jure Baroness Lisle, widow of Edmund
Dudley, Esq. (beheaded 18 Aug. 1510), and daughter and heiress of
Edward Grey, Knt., Viscount Lisle, by his 1st wife, Elizabeth,
daughter of John Talbot, Knt., Viscount Lisle. They had three
daughters, Frances (wife of John Basset and Thomas Monke), Elizabeth
(wife of Francis Jobson, Knt), and Bridget (wife of William Carden,
Knt.). In 1514 he was captain of the Vice-Admiral's ship "Trinity
Sovereign." He attended the King at the Field of Cloth of Gold in
1520. In consequence of his marriage, he was created 25 Apr. 1523
Viscount Lisle. In 1528 he purchased the manors of Segenworth, Chark,
Lee, Sutton, West Stratton, etc., Hampshire from his cousin, John
Wayte, Esq., of Titchfield. Arthur married (2nd) in 1529 Honor
Grenville, widow of John Basset, Knt. (died 31 Jan. 1522/9), and
daughter of Thomas Grenville, Knt., by his 1st wife, Isabel, daughter
of Otes Gilbert, Knt. They had no issue. He was imprisoned in the
Tower of London on suspicion of treason 19 May 1540. SIR ARTHUR
PLANTAGENET, Viscount Lisle, died there 3 Mar. 1541/2. His widow,
Honor, was buried at Logan, Cornwall 30 Apr. 1566. Modern descendants
(not traced). J. Burke, General & Heraldic Dictionary of the Peerages
... Extinct, Dormant, and in Abeyance (1831), pp. 433,513-514. G.F.
Beltz, Memorials of the Most Noble Order of the Garter (1841), pg.
clxxii. H.S.P. 2 (1870): 74-75 (1619 Vis. Leicester) (Gray pedigree:
"Elizab. [Gray] Nupta Edm. Dudley postea Arthur Plantagenet"); 16
(1881): 308-310 (1563/4 Vis. Yorkshire) (Talbot pedigree: "Elsabeth
[Talbot] doughter & sole heyre [1] = Edmond Dudley on of the Prevy
Consell to Kyng Henry 7th., [2]= Arthur Plantagenet bastard son to
Edward IV. 2 husband"). J.L. Vivian, Visitations of the County of
Devon (1895), pp. 46-47,569. D.N.B. 15 (1909): 1285-1287 (biog. of
Arthur Plantagenet). List of Early Chan. Proc. 5 (1912):
288,358,465,472.473; 6 (1922): 109,134. C.L. Scofield, Life and Reign
of Edward the Fourth 2 (1923): 56,161. C.P. 8 (1932): 63-68 (sub
Lisle). Cal. of Ancient Deeds - Series B Pt. 3 (List & Index Soc.,
vol. 113) (1975): B.10780, B.12180. Ancient Deeds Series BB (List &
Index Soc., vol. 137) (1977), pp. 80-81,83,90. M.S. Byrne, The Lisle
Letters 2 (1981): 63 (Arthur Plantagenet styled "cousin" by Margaret
Pole, Countess of Salisbury); 1 (1981): 481, 4{1981): 140 (instances
of Henry Pole, Lord Montagu, styled "cousin" to Arthur Plantagenet).
Exchequer Ancient Deeds - DD Series (List & Index Soc., vol. 200)
(1983), pp. 193,207. C. Given-Wilson & A. Curteis, Royal Bastards of
Medieval England (1984), pp. 158,161-174.
Alleged illegitimate children of Edward IV of England, by an unknown
mistress (or mistresses), _____:
i. GRACE PLANTAGENET, said to be present in 1492 on the funeral barge
of Queen Elizabeth Wydeville, widow of King Edward IV. C. Ross,
Edward IV (1974), pg. 316, foonote 2 (citing BM Arundel MS. 26, ff.
29v-30v). C. Given-Wilson & A. Curteis, Royal Bastards of Medieval
England (1984), pp. 158,161-174.
ii. _____ PLANTAGENET (daughter), married (as his 1st wife) JOHN
AUDLEY (or TUCHET), younger son of John Audley (or Tuchet), Knt., 6th
Lord Audley, Lord Treasurer of England, by Anne, daughter of Thomas
Echingham, Knt. They had no issue. Collections for a History of
Staffordshire n.s. 12 (1909): 229. MS. pedigree of Audley family
dated 1618 on file at the William SaltCollection at the William Salt
Library in Stafford, England. (These citations kindly provided by
Peter Sutton).
iii. MARY PLANTAGENET, married after 1485 (as his 2nd wife) HENRY
HARMAN, of Ellam (in Crayford), Kent, Clerk of the Crown to King Henry
VII, son of Thomas and Elizabeth Harman. HENRY HARMAN left a will
dated 1501, proved 1502 (P.C.C., 15 Blamyr), naming his deceased wife,
Agnes, his living wife, Mary, and eleven children, George, William,
Thomas, Roger, John, Henry, Robert, Elizabeth (wife of _____ Sparke),
Alice, Beatrice, and Anne. The maternity of the children is
uncertain, but at least the two youngest sons were by Henry Harman's
last wife, Mary, as indicated by Henry's will. Misc. Gen. et Her. 4th
ser. 2 (1908): 227-228 (Harman pedigree) (no identification of wives).
H.S.P. 74 (1923): 61-62 (1574 Vis. Kent) (Harman pedigree: "Henry
Harman Clarke of ye Crowne vnto H: 7 ... This man [Henry Harman] was
H: 7 man to whome he gaue the clarkeship of the Crowne and with all
gaue him the Crest belowe*, depick[t]ed one his armes which Crist was
giuen him after hee had maried with E: 4 daughter") (The latter
citation kindly supplied by James Trabue).
Chris Phillips
Douglas Richardson wrote:
> If anyone has anything to add to the information below or possesses
> any information on a possible illegitimate daughter who married a
> Musgrave, please post that information here on the newsgroup or
> contact me at my e-mail address below.
Peter Hammond has just mentioned to me that there is further information on
the illegitimate children of Edward IV in a paper by him published in The
Ricardian, vol 13, 2003, pp.229-233.
Chris Phillips
Douglas Richardson
Thank you for sharing this information. The journal, The Ricardian,
is not available at either the Family History Library or the
University of Utah library here in Salt Lake City. I wonder if Peter
Hammond or someone with access to the Ricardian journal can post the
relevant parts of Mr. Hammond's article here on the newsgroup. It
sounds like an interesting article.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
E-mail: royala...@msn.com
"Chris Phillips" <c...@medievalgenealogy.org.uk> wrote in message news:<b62hjd$pbk$1...@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>...
Sam Sloan
Everyone wants to be the son of the king; even the bastard son of the king.
How do we know that these claims are ligitimate?
Sam Sloan
iain wallace
Bastard children of King Edward IV. This included a daughter Mary, said to
have married Henry Harman:-
"iii. MARY PLANTAGENET, married after 1485 (as his 2nd wife) HENRY
HARMAN, of Ellam (in Crayford), Kent, Clerk of the Crown to King Henry
VII, son of Thomas and Elizabeth Harman. HENRY HARMAN left a will
dated 1501, proved 1502 (P.C.C., 15 Blamyr), naming his deceased wife,
Agnes, his living wife, Mary, and eleven children, George, William,
Thomas, Roger, John, Henry, Robert, Elizabeth (wife of _____ Sparke),
Alice, Beatrice, and Anne. The maternity of the children is
uncertain, but at least the two youngest sons were by Henry Harman's
last wife, Mary, as indicated by Henry's will. Misc. Gen. et Her. 4th
ser. 2 (1908): 227-228 (Harman pedigree) (no identification of wives).
H.S.P. 74 (1923): 61-62 (1574 Vis. Kent) (Harman pedigree: "Henry
Harman Clarke of ye Crowne vnto H: 7 ... This man [Henry Harman] was
H: 7 man to whome he gaue the clarkeship of the Crowne and with all
gaue him the Crest belowe*, depick[t]ed one his armes which Crist was
giuen him after hee had maried with E: 4 daughter") (The latter
citation kindly supplied by James Trabue)."
I have severe reservations about identifying the second wife of Henry Harman
of Ellam, Crayford as a daughter of King Edward IV.
Firstly, consider whether there is a more natural interpretation of the
wording in the 1574 Visitation of Kent:-
'This man [Henry Harman] was H: 7 man to whome he gaue the clarkeship of the
Crowne and with all gaue him the Crest belowe, depick[t]ed one his armes
which Crist was giuen him after hee had maried with E: 4 daughter'.
I presume this wording is transcribed from an original manuscript note. We
know that Henry Harman personally served King Henry VII in a financial
capacity and it does not seem unreasonable for the King to be somehow
involved in Harman's arms. (Incidentally, I do not know that the Harman
family bore any arms before the time of Henry VII ). The problem, I think,
lies in the final few words which can be read in this way: ....."which
Crist was giuen him" [i.e. Harman] "after he" [i.e. Henry VII] "had maried
with E: 4 daughter" [i.e. Elizabeth of York, d. of King Edward IV and
Elizabeth Woodville]. This reading would make the granting of the 'Crist' a
subsiduary event connected with the King's own wedding and say nothing about
Harman's own marriage.
We can go a bit further than Douglas in trying to identify the mother of
some of Henry Harman's children. Ellam in Crayford was owned by the Ellam
family in the reign of King Edward IV, what little is known of them derives
from Hasted's History of Kent and one of his sources, Weever's Ancient
Funeral Monuments (1631). Weever fortuitously recorded a couple of MIs just
before their destruction by fire. Henry Ellam (or Elham) married Elizabeth
the daughter of Roger Appleton (or Apylton, Apleton, Apilton etc.) and they
had a son John who died in 1481. The Ellam's (father and son) and Roger
Appleton were all involved in financial management for the crown. I do not
know of any surviving wills for the Ellam family, possibly they were proved
in the Deanery Court of Shoreham and have not survived. The Ellam family
seem to disappear after John's death, but Henry Harmans will sheds further
light on this matter (I rely on a transcript kindly provided by James Trabue
last year):-
"And whereas of late after the death of Elizabeth Elham, doughter of John
Elham, the sonne of Henry Elham, londes, woods and tenements, etc. descended
to Elizabeth Spark, Alice Harman and Beatrice Harman, my daughters, in the
parish of Eard aforesaid."
The implication of this is that these three girls had an Ellam descent, but
the other children did not. Henry Harman does not say Elizabeth Elham was
his late wife nor that she was the mother of these three girls; but I don't
think the possibility can be entirely excluded.
We are hampered by not knowing the age of Henry Harman at his death in
1501-2, nor the dates of his marriages. It appears that these three
daughters may be the product of his first marriage, as Elizabeth was married
and had at least two children of her own (Mary and Margerie Sparke) at the
time Henry Harman made his will. In the will Harman mentions "Mary, my wife"
who is still alive and young enough to be of childbearing age. Some of the
sons are young enough to still be "at their studies" and to possibly be
apprenticed in the future. George is named as the eldest son. For succession
purposes the order of the sons is given as George, William, Thomas, Roger,
John, Henry the younger, Robert; although in my experience such an order
does not always correspond to the order of birth. The was a fourth daughter,
Anne, who receives the same provision for her future marriage as Alice and
Beatrice; the three being named in the order Alice, Beatrice, Anne.
The will contains the phrase "Next I leave Katherine, my wife 40s." This
immediately follow a reference to a similar sum left to "Richard my brother"
and may be an error for ".Katherine, his wife 40s." or "Katherine my sister"
. (This was noted by the original transcriber as a possible error so I do
not think it is just a transcription error).
The reference to Agnes in the will does not specifically name her as Henry
Harman's deceased wife, although it is open to that interpretation ".some
suitable chaplin.to celebrate" [mass] "for my soul and for my Agnes, the
which Agnes lies buried in the chancel of the same church, and for the soul
of Mary, my wife, after her decease, and the souls of Thomas Harman, my
father, and Elizabeth Harman, my mother, John Werall and Alice, his wife,
and all my relations and benefactors.". I have no idea who the Weralls
were.
Overall I cannot really see there is much evidence to justify claiming that
Mary Harman was an otherwise unknown daughter of King Edward IV. However, I
will admit that marriage to a close royal servant of modest social status
would be an effective way of disposing of an inconvenient bastard of an
earlier monarch. Incidentally, another (legitimate) daughter of King Edward
IV, Brigit, was living only a couple of miles from Crayford in Dartford
nunnery.
Ian Wallace.
iain wallace
Bastard children of King Edward IV. This included a daughter Mary, said to
have married Henry Harman:-
"iii. MARY PLANTAGENET, married after 1485 (as his 2nd wife) HENRY
HARMAN, of Ellam (in Crayford), Kent, Clerk of the Crown to King Henry
VII, son of Thomas and Elizabeth Harman. HENRY HARMAN left a will
dated 1501, proved 1502 (P.C.C., 15 Blamyr), naming his deceased wife,
Agnes, his living wife, Mary, and eleven children, George, William,
Thomas, Roger, John, Henry, Robert, Elizabeth (wife of _____ Sparke),
Alice, Beatrice, and Anne. The maternity of the children is
uncertain, but at least the two youngest sons were by Henry Harman's
last wife, Mary, as indicated by Henry's will. Misc. Gen. et Her. 4th
ser. 2 (1908): 227-228 (Harman pedigree) (no identification of wives).
H.S.P. 74 (1923): 61-62 (1574 Vis. Kent) (Harman pedigree: "Henry
Harman Clarke of ye Crowne vnto H: 7 ... This man [Henry Harman] was
H: 7 man to whome he gaue the clarkeship of the Crowne and with all
gaue him the Crest belowe*, depick[t]ed one his armes which Crist was
giuen him after hee had maried with E: 4 daughter") (The latter
citation kindly supplied by James Trabue)."
I have severe reservations about identifying the second wife of Henry Harman
Sutliff
daughter of Edward IV. I believe you have correctly interpreted this and the
identification was based on a misunderstanding of Latin. I regret very much
that I do not remember where in Ormerod I recently came across a similar
statement which implied the marriage of a minor Cheshire landowner to the
daughter of the king, but it turned out to be simply to be a poorly phrased
translation of an honor resulting from the marriage of a daughter of the
king to another person. Your point is well made and convincing.
Henry Sutliff
"iain wallace" <wallace...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3eaff...@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
Douglas Richardson
A recent issue of the journal, The Ricardian, contains an interesting
article entitled "The Illegitimate Children of Edward IV" [vol. XIII,
2003, pp. 229-233]. The article is written by the well known
historian, Peter Hammond. Mr. Hammond kindly forwarded a copy of his
article this past month.
I'm happy to report that Mr. Hammond shows the same five illegitimate
children (or alleged illegitimate children) of King Edward IV, as I do
in my revised list of King Edward IV's bastards. This includes the
wife of Henry Harman, whose existence was pointed out to me by James
Trabue.
Mr. Hammond has the following to say about Mary Harman:
"The final child of Edward IV is mentioned in the Kent Visitation of
1574, in the pedigree of Harman, which says that Henry Harman was
married to a daughter of Edward IV. The daughter is not named. The
Harman arms are described in the printed Visitation as 'a chevron
purple between three periwigs sable', although more likely osttich
feathers were meant, 'periwigs' in this sense is a later usage. The
crest is described 'out of a ducal coronet an arm erect azure, the
hand proper grasping two roses gules and argent, stalked and leaved
vert' which sounds like a grant which might be made to a scion of
royalty, and the purple (or murrey) chevron might be part of such a
grant. There is nothing inherently unlikely in Harman marrying such a
woman, as he was an important person, clerk of the crown in the court
of the King's Bench ("coroner and attorney in the bench before the
king' as one of his patents describes him) from 1480 until 1502, being
appointed successively by each kind as they came to the throne. He
died in March 1502 and his will was proven soon after. He will tells
us nothing interesting about his wife except that her name was Mary
and that they had eleven children, seven sons and four daughters. The
names of the children give us no clues about possible royal ancestry.
None of the boys was named Edward, for example." END OF QUOTE
As Peter Hammond points out, the evidence for Henry Harman's wife
being the bastard child of King Edward IV is very slim indeed. This
matter deserves further research.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
E-mail: royala...@msn.com
iain wallace" <wallace...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message news:<3eaff...@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>...
Douglas Richardson
In answer to your main point, you're quite correct that the "he" who
"maried with E: 4 daughter" might actually be King Henry VII, rather
than Henry Harman. It depends on how choose to read the text. Either
reading is permissible.
When you have a chance, I'd appreciate your thoughts on Peter
Hammond's comments regarding Henry Harman's wife which I just posted.
Thanks!
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
E-mail: royala...@msn.com
"iain wallace" <wallace...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message news:<3eaff...@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>...
Todd A. Farmerie
> When you have a chance, I'd appreciate your thoughts on Peter
> Hammond's comments regarding Henry Harman's wife which I just posted.
Setting aside the "there is nothing improbable about it"
argument, and the various fill that adds nothing to the claim, it
is all based on one source - the Kent Visitation. (And we all
know the caveats with Visitations - in this case we must also ask
whether the pedigree preparer may have similarly misread the same
dating reference.)
taf
iain wallace
"Douglas Richardson" <royala...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:5cf47a19.03050...@posting.google.com...
> Dear Iain, Hap, etc.
>
> A recent issue of the journal, The Ricardian, contains an interesting
> article entitled "The Illegitimate Children of Edward IV" [vol. XIII,
> 2003, pp. 229-233]. The article is written by the well known
> historian, Peter Hammond. Mr. Hammond kindly forwarded a copy of his
> article this past month.
> Mr. Hammond has the following to say about Mary Harman:
>"The
> Harman arms are described in the printed Visitation as 'a chevron
> purple between three periwigs sable', although more likely osttich
> feathers were meant, 'periwigs' in this sense is a later usage. The
> crest is described 'out of a ducal coronet an arm erect azure, the
> hand proper grasping two roses gules and argent, stalked and leaved
> vert' which sounds like a grant which might be made to a scion of
> royalty, and the purple (or murrey) chevron might be part of such a
> grant"
Ah yes, the crest itself, I had forgotten about that.
A rose gules and a rose argent. I don't think that was without significance
at the end of the 15th century. That the crest includes the emblems of both
Lancaster and York, just what might have been expected if it was connected
with the marriage of Henry Tudor and Elizabeth of York. That was after all
the marriage that gave rise to the Tudor Rose.
I do agree that 'periwig' is a later rationalisation. I have seen the Harman
arms (? or perhaps a quartering of them?) described as ostrich feathers. I
can't recall the source off the top of my head; but no doubt Jim Trabue or
Jeff Duvall will recall it. I don't find the chavron purpure suggestive of a
royal connection - are there proven examples of purpure having this
significance? I would like to know more about the origin of the Harman
arms.
Ian.
iain wallace
"Douglas Richardson" <royala...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:5cf47a19.03050...@posting.google.com...
> Hammond's comments regarding Henry Harman's wife which I just posted.
> Thanks!
>
I don't think their is a lot to add.
His first first was an Ellam, probably Agnes. The relationship of Agnes to
Elizabeth Ellam is uncertain, sisters possibly - this would be easier if we
had, for instance, the will of John Ellam, but we don't.
Second wife Mary, unknown maiden name. Subsequent arms borne by her
descendants do not help.
There is only one known piece of 'evidence' for a royal descent, that is the
comment in the Visitation - as has been discussed this has very possibly
been misinterpreted. Presumably somewhere in the bowels of the College of
Arms or on a manuscript in private hands there is the original note on which
the comment in the printed Visitation was based, nobody today knows what it
said or whether it was misread.
Ian.
karen...@gmail.com
mgerber...@gmail.com
Paulo Ricardo Canedo
> With the exception of Grace, none of these people were recognized by Edward IV. Arthur Wayte was " recognized" by Henry VIII. Means nothing to me. The son Edward recognized is referred to as the Lord Bastard. He may have gone on to become Perkin Warbeck. He was not Arthur Wayte. I'm deeply suspicious of Tudor political manipulation.
bevsto...@gmail.com
taf
> Has anyone found material covering Margaret Watson Stoughto , supposed
> bastard daughter of Edward?
taf
cesarbal...@gmail.com
Thank u