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OT: Who was Edward Louis Livingston, great-great-grandfather of the 7th Earl of Durham?
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hoove...@yahoo.com
Apr 19, 2013, 4:25:07 PM4/19/13
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Although off-topic, this pertains to someone who is probably listed in quite a few databases (compiled by reputable scholars whom I admire as well as those whose data should be considered spurious at best). I have long wondered the identity of this person, particularly since his surname is extremely familiar, all the more so in the state of New York.
I’m referring to Edward Louis Livingston of New York, who is listed in Leo’s Genealogics database as I00052268.
As Leo shows, his daughter, Helen Margaretta Livingston, married Granville Richard Frederick Farquhar, of Dalton Hall, Beverley. Among their great-grandchildren is the 7th Earl of Durham.
Does anyone have any idea who (genealogically speaking) Edward Louis Livingston was? I have a copy of _The Livingston Family in America and Its Scottish Origins_ by Florence Van Rensselaer (New York, 1949), and he’s not listed. He’s not in any of the Livingston family’s more recent update publications. Edward Louis Livingston and the Earl of Durham connection isn’t mentioned in Gary Boyd Roberts in _Notable Descendants of Robert Livingston the elder and/or Robert Livingston the younger of New York_, #69 in his internet Royal Descents, Notable Kin, and Printed Sources Series.
According to England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index, 1837-1915 on ancestry.com Helen Margaretta Livingston had been married at least once previously, which isn’t indicated in the edition of Burke’s Peerage that I have at hand. She’s listed as,
Name: Helen Margaretta Elmhirst
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1896
Registration District: Billesdon
Inferred County: Leicestershire
Volume Number: 7a
Page Number: 57
Of course, we’re all aware that Marian Louisa Montagu-Douglas-Scott, paternal grandmother of Sarah Margaret Ferguson, (born Oct. 15, 1959 at 27 Welbeck Str), the former wife of Prince Andrew Albert Christian Edward of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, Duke of York, married, as her second husband, Sir Thomas Walker Elmhirst, Air Marshall, KBE, CB, AFC, DL.
According to the England & Wales, Death Index, 1916-2006, also on ancestry.com where she’s listed as Helen M. Farquhar, she died aged 66. Since Burke’s gives her date of death as June 13, 1929, she was born in either 1862 or 1863.
Without wasting time on irrelevant details, she’s not listed with her parents in the 1870 or 1880 United States census and the 1890 census is unavailable. I can’t find Edward Louis Livingston in any census in the US or England.
Searching for the name “Edward Louis Livingston” or “Edward Lewis Livingston” in the search engine at www.nytimes.com (The New York Times, whose coverage of New York families at the "Livingston's level" has always been pretty meticulous, although perhaps less so in recent decades) yields no results.
Searching the New York Times between Jan. 1 & Jan. 31, 1896 for [Livingston Farquhar] [Elmhirst Farquhar] in an attempt to find an announcement or report on the wedding of Helen Margaretta Livingston Elmhirst and Granville Richard Frederick Farquhar yields no results. Searching for “Farquhar” only during the month of Jan 1896 brings up two results, but they both refer to a Dr. B. Farquhar Curtis.
As a New York genealogy enthusiast, my inability to identify Edward Louis Livingston is all the more frustrating since his wife was (also?) a member of a prominent family, the Kernochans. Her obituary appeared in The New York Times, July 16, 1908,
Mrs. Mary Josephine Livingston
News was received in this city yesterday of the death on Monday, July 13, of Mrs. Mary Josephine Livingston at Eastnor Castle, Ledbury, England. She was eighty years old, and the widow of E. Louis Livingston, who died ten years ago. She was the daughter of the late James (sic Joseph) Kernochan of New York and a sister of James F. Kernochan. Magistrate J. Frederic Kernochan of this city is a nephew. She had lived at Eastnor Castle for the last thirty-five years, paying occasional visits to relatives in America. She leaves a son and two married daughters, who live abroad.
Leo has another member of Kernochan family, Catherine Kernochan, I00620498, wife of Herbert Claiborne Pell, in his database. When I get a chance I’ll figure out the connection.
Searching for [Livingston Kernochan] in the New York Times on-line search engine lists 962 results, and, frankly, figuring this out isn’t important enough to me to begin checking them all.
Mary Josephine Kernochan Livingston was the daughter of Joseph Kernochan who came with his parents from Scotland to Orange County New York in 1790. Joseph’s wife was Margaret Seymour, who had a great deal of colonial American ancestry.
If anyone knows who this man with such a familiar surname who married a woman with significant New York connections, and is a great-great-grandfather of the
7th Earl of Durham was (and his ancestry), it would be very interesting to know.
Cordially,
Marc
I’m referring to Edward Louis Livingston of New York, who is listed in Leo’s Genealogics database as I00052268.
As Leo shows, his daughter, Helen Margaretta Livingston, married Granville Richard Frederick Farquhar, of Dalton Hall, Beverley. Among their great-grandchildren is the 7th Earl of Durham.
Does anyone have any idea who (genealogically speaking) Edward Louis Livingston was? I have a copy of _The Livingston Family in America and Its Scottish Origins_ by Florence Van Rensselaer (New York, 1949), and he’s not listed. He’s not in any of the Livingston family’s more recent update publications. Edward Louis Livingston and the Earl of Durham connection isn’t mentioned in Gary Boyd Roberts in _Notable Descendants of Robert Livingston the elder and/or Robert Livingston the younger of New York_, #69 in his internet Royal Descents, Notable Kin, and Printed Sources Series.
According to England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index, 1837-1915 on ancestry.com Helen Margaretta Livingston had been married at least once previously, which isn’t indicated in the edition of Burke’s Peerage that I have at hand. She’s listed as,
Name: Helen Margaretta Elmhirst
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1896
Registration District: Billesdon
Inferred County: Leicestershire
Volume Number: 7a
Page Number: 57
Of course, we’re all aware that Marian Louisa Montagu-Douglas-Scott, paternal grandmother of Sarah Margaret Ferguson, (born Oct. 15, 1959 at 27 Welbeck Str), the former wife of Prince Andrew Albert Christian Edward of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, Duke of York, married, as her second husband, Sir Thomas Walker Elmhirst, Air Marshall, KBE, CB, AFC, DL.
According to the England & Wales, Death Index, 1916-2006, also on ancestry.com where she’s listed as Helen M. Farquhar, she died aged 66. Since Burke’s gives her date of death as June 13, 1929, she was born in either 1862 or 1863.
Without wasting time on irrelevant details, she’s not listed with her parents in the 1870 or 1880 United States census and the 1890 census is unavailable. I can’t find Edward Louis Livingston in any census in the US or England.
Searching for the name “Edward Louis Livingston” or “Edward Lewis Livingston” in the search engine at www.nytimes.com (The New York Times, whose coverage of New York families at the "Livingston's level" has always been pretty meticulous, although perhaps less so in recent decades) yields no results.
Searching the New York Times between Jan. 1 & Jan. 31, 1896 for [Livingston Farquhar] [Elmhirst Farquhar] in an attempt to find an announcement or report on the wedding of Helen Margaretta Livingston Elmhirst and Granville Richard Frederick Farquhar yields no results. Searching for “Farquhar” only during the month of Jan 1896 brings up two results, but they both refer to a Dr. B. Farquhar Curtis.
As a New York genealogy enthusiast, my inability to identify Edward Louis Livingston is all the more frustrating since his wife was (also?) a member of a prominent family, the Kernochans. Her obituary appeared in The New York Times, July 16, 1908,
Mrs. Mary Josephine Livingston
News was received in this city yesterday of the death on Monday, July 13, of Mrs. Mary Josephine Livingston at Eastnor Castle, Ledbury, England. She was eighty years old, and the widow of E. Louis Livingston, who died ten years ago. She was the daughter of the late James (sic Joseph) Kernochan of New York and a sister of James F. Kernochan. Magistrate J. Frederic Kernochan of this city is a nephew. She had lived at Eastnor Castle for the last thirty-five years, paying occasional visits to relatives in America. She leaves a son and two married daughters, who live abroad.
Leo has another member of Kernochan family, Catherine Kernochan, I00620498, wife of Herbert Claiborne Pell, in his database. When I get a chance I’ll figure out the connection.
Searching for [Livingston Kernochan] in the New York Times on-line search engine lists 962 results, and, frankly, figuring this out isn’t important enough to me to begin checking them all.
Mary Josephine Kernochan Livingston was the daughter of Joseph Kernochan who came with his parents from Scotland to Orange County New York in 1790. Joseph’s wife was Margaret Seymour, who had a great deal of colonial American ancestry.
If anyone knows who this man with such a familiar surname who married a woman with significant New York connections, and is a great-great-grandfather of the
7th Earl of Durham was (and his ancestry), it would be very interesting to know.
Cordially,
Marc
Matt A
Apr 19, 2013, 6:48:37 PM4/19/13
to
This book looks only /moderately/ well-researched, but I think you will find it a good starting point. According to it, Edward Louis Livingston (about the right age to be "ours") married Mary Josephine Kernochen, daughter of Joseph Kernochen and Margaret, daughter of William Seymour and Eliza, daughter of Henry Powell and Mary Keen. Furthermore (same source), Henry Powell was the son of Richard Powell, son of Thomas Powell Jr. (whose father was allegedly a Welshman) who married Mary, daughter of Thomas Willetts; meanwhile Mary Keen was the daughter of Francis Keen and Martha, daughter of Thomas Powell Jr. and Mary Willetts. Apparently Henry Powell ran into some trouble for marrying his first cousin, as he was a Quaker. Perhaps I will check census records to see how many Edward Louis Livingstons of the right age were in New York.
http://www.archive.org/stream/ourpredecessorst00fowl#page/40/mode/2up/search/Livingston
Hope this helps,
-Matt Ahlgren
hoove...@yahoo.com
Apr 19, 2013, 7:41:40 PM4/19/13
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Matt,
/Moderately/ well researched is better than some alternatives! Hey, wait, that's not a new complaint (of mine. I'm referring to poorly researched genealogy). In fact this was my source for the Kernochan family. It doesn't help with identifying Edward Louis Livingston, but, in case you're interested, from _A History of The Seymour Family, Descendants of Richard Seymour of Hartford, Connecticut for Six Generations_ by Donald Lines Jacobus, 1939 and _Ancestors and Descendants of Henry Greogry_ by Grant Gregory (both available on ancestry.com) ...
1] William Seymour, b. April 13, 1758, m. (2) Elizabeth Powell, d. 1811,
Newburgh, New York
2] Samuel Seymour, b. c.1731, m. (1) March 17, 1750/1, New Canaan,
Connecticut, d. April 11, 1818, [Seymour #38]
3] Sarah Betts, d. before 1770
4] Samuel Seymour, b. Norwalk, Connecticut, bp. Nov. 17, 1694, Fairfield,
Connecticut, d. c.1754
5] Mary Lyon
6] John Betts
7] Sarah Gregory
8] Capt Matthew Seymour
9] Sarah Hayes
10] Andrew Lyon, of Norwalk, Connecticut
11] Mary ---
12] John Betts
13] Hannah Burwell
14] John Gregory, b. 1676 or 1677, d. Jan. 18, 1751/2, (Gregory #31)
15] "a dau of Robert Seeley (Nathaniel2, Robert1), prob his dau Sarah,
bap Aug. 23, 1696, but b. abt 1680
16] Thomas Seymour
17] Hannah Marvin
18] Samuel Hayes
19] Elizabeth Moore
20-27] Untraced by me as of now
28] John Gregory, [Gregory #11]
29] Elizabeth Moulthrop, daughter, of Matthew & Jane Moulthrop
56] John Gregory, [Gregory #2]
57] Sarah -----
58] Matthew Moulthrop
59] Jane ---
There's at least one other Thomas Seymour/Hannah Marvin peerage descent,
Thomas Seymour = Hannah Marvin
Elizabeth Seymour = Timothy Knapp
Israel Knapp = Amy Marshall
Israel Knapp = Margaret Hungerford
Anna Knapp = William Thorn(e) -- a descendant of the Burling family ancestral
to the wife of the "new" Baron Thurlow discussed here awhile back
William Knapp Thorn = Emily Vanderbilt, (sister-in-law of Matt's cousin
Maria Louisa Kissam Vanderbilt)
Caroline Roberts Thorn = Gustave Edward Kissel
Jeannette Thorn Kissel, m. Sir Richard Arthur Pease, 2nd Bt.
Aline Thorne Pease = Kenneth James William Mackay, 3rd Earl of Inchcape
Kenneth Peter Lyle Mackay, 4th Earl of Inchcape
[Nicholas Knapp Genealogy, by Alfred Averill Knapp, also available on ancestry.com, Commodore Cornelius Vanderbilt and His Family, A Biographical Account of the Descendants of Cornelius and Sophia Johnson Vanderbilt, by Dorothy Kelly MacDowell, 1989]
I'd better post this now, in case you're looking up the same sources. Reinventing the wheel is a horrible way to waste ones time.
Cordially,
Marc
/Moderately/ well researched is better than some alternatives! Hey, wait, that's not a new complaint (of mine. I'm referring to poorly researched genealogy). In fact this was my source for the Kernochan family. It doesn't help with identifying Edward Louis Livingston, but, in case you're interested, from _A History of The Seymour Family, Descendants of Richard Seymour of Hartford, Connecticut for Six Generations_ by Donald Lines Jacobus, 1939 and _Ancestors and Descendants of Henry Greogry_ by Grant Gregory (both available on ancestry.com) ...
1] William Seymour, b. April 13, 1758, m. (2) Elizabeth Powell, d. 1811,
Newburgh, New York
2] Samuel Seymour, b. c.1731, m. (1) March 17, 1750/1, New Canaan,
Connecticut, d. April 11, 1818, [Seymour #38]
3] Sarah Betts, d. before 1770
4] Samuel Seymour, b. Norwalk, Connecticut, bp. Nov. 17, 1694, Fairfield,
Connecticut, d. c.1754
5] Mary Lyon
6] John Betts
7] Sarah Gregory
8] Capt Matthew Seymour
9] Sarah Hayes
10] Andrew Lyon, of Norwalk, Connecticut
11] Mary ---
12] John Betts
13] Hannah Burwell
14] John Gregory, b. 1676 or 1677, d. Jan. 18, 1751/2, (Gregory #31)
15] "a dau of Robert Seeley (Nathaniel2, Robert1), prob his dau Sarah,
bap Aug. 23, 1696, but b. abt 1680
16] Thomas Seymour
17] Hannah Marvin
18] Samuel Hayes
19] Elizabeth Moore
20-27] Untraced by me as of now
28] John Gregory, [Gregory #11]
29] Elizabeth Moulthrop, daughter, of Matthew & Jane Moulthrop
56] John Gregory, [Gregory #2]
57] Sarah -----
58] Matthew Moulthrop
59] Jane ---
There's at least one other Thomas Seymour/Hannah Marvin peerage descent,
Thomas Seymour = Hannah Marvin
Elizabeth Seymour = Timothy Knapp
Israel Knapp = Amy Marshall
Israel Knapp = Margaret Hungerford
Anna Knapp = William Thorn(e) -- a descendant of the Burling family ancestral
to the wife of the "new" Baron Thurlow discussed here awhile back
William Knapp Thorn = Emily Vanderbilt, (sister-in-law of Matt's cousin
Maria Louisa Kissam Vanderbilt)
Caroline Roberts Thorn = Gustave Edward Kissel
Jeannette Thorn Kissel, m. Sir Richard Arthur Pease, 2nd Bt.
Aline Thorne Pease = Kenneth James William Mackay, 3rd Earl of Inchcape
Kenneth Peter Lyle Mackay, 4th Earl of Inchcape
[Nicholas Knapp Genealogy, by Alfred Averill Knapp, also available on ancestry.com, Commodore Cornelius Vanderbilt and His Family, A Biographical Account of the Descendants of Cornelius and Sophia Johnson Vanderbilt, by Dorothy Kelly MacDowell, 1989]
I'd better post this now, in case you're looking up the same sources. Reinventing the wheel is a horrible way to waste ones time.
Cordially,
Marc
Matt A
Apr 19, 2013, 9:13:56 PM4/19/13
to
1. Mary Willetts, born Feb. 1663, married Thomas Powell 6 November 1691.
2. Richard Willetts
3. Mary (allegedly Washburn, but as she was an immigrant and the English Washburn ancestry is unknown, this seems doubtful), died 1713 at age 85.
"Adam and Anne Mott: Their Ancestry and Descendants" (http://books.google.com/books?id=QhY5AAAAMAAJ&pg=PA239&lpg=PA239&dq=Thomas+powell+mary+willetts&source=bl&ots=Op1tbseNUb&sig=GMtuov51QbVy-Kydx1YI3oPPyhQ&hl=en&sa=X&ei=TOpxUfKfI4a3rQHKoYHQBQ&ved=0CB4Q6AEwAjgK#v=onepage&q=Thomas%20powell%20mary%20willetts&f=false)
-Matt Ahlgren
Matt A
Apr 19, 2013, 9:16:10 PM4/19/13
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-Matt
Matt A
Apr 19, 2013, 9:51:59 PM4/19/13
to
On Friday, April 19, 2013 7:41:40 PM UTC-4, hoove...@yahoo.com wrote:
-Matt Ahlgren
Matt A
Apr 19, 2013, 9:54:43 PM4/19/13
to
Matt A
Apr 19, 2013, 9:58:31 PM4/19/13
to
Matt A
Apr 19, 2013, 10:03:25 PM4/19/13
to
hoove...@yahoo.com
Apr 20, 2013, 8:32:00 AM4/20/13
to
Matt,
William Thorn(e) mentioned in my post, husband of Anna Knapp, was a descendant of the Bowne family, not the Burlings.
Mabel Sands, (Genealogics I00131216) wife of Clarence Granville Sinclair, was also a Bowne descendant. One of the Sinclair's great-grandsons is John Archibald Sinclair, 3rd Viscount Thurso. Here's what I have on her ancestry through great-great-grandparents (without dates and I'm aware of lines that can be traced further. When I'm done /doing/ her I'll send you and Leo charts)
1] Mabel Sands, m. Clarence Granville Sinclair
2] Mahlon Day Sands
3] Edith Minturn
4] Abraham B. Sands
5] Sarah A. Day
6] Robert Bowne Minturn
7] Anna Mary Wendell
8] Nathaniel Sands
9] Rebecca C. Binninger
10] Mahlon Day, of New York
11] Mary Kerr, of Manchester, England
12] William Minturn
13] Sarah Bowne
14] John Lansing Wendell
15] Susan Carter
16] David Sands
17] Clementina Hallock
18] Abraham Binninger
19-23] -----
24] William Minturn
25] Penelope Green
26] Robert Bowne
27] Elizabeth Hartshorne
28] Cornelius Wendell
29] Anna Lansing
30-31] -----
One extension since Matt mentions (below) the Willetts descent for the 7th E/Durham,
Hannah Willetts = Samuel Underhill
Dinah Underhill = John Bowne
Robert Bowne, [#26 above]
Wendell family seen here in the ancestry of John Archibald Sinclair, 3rd Viscount Thurso, is the same Wendell family that's ancestral to Anne Catharine Tredick Wendell, wife of Henry Herbert, 6th E/Carnarvon and her sister Philippa Fendall Wendall, wife of Randolph Algernon Ronald Stewart, 12th E/Galloway. [I don't know, frankly, if there's more than this one Wendell family in the United States]
Cordially,
Marc
William Thorn(e) mentioned in my post, husband of Anna Knapp, was a descendant of the Bowne family, not the Burlings.
Mabel Sands, (Genealogics I00131216) wife of Clarence Granville Sinclair, was also a Bowne descendant. One of the Sinclair's great-grandsons is John Archibald Sinclair, 3rd Viscount Thurso. Here's what I have on her ancestry through great-great-grandparents (without dates and I'm aware of lines that can be traced further. When I'm done /doing/ her I'll send you and Leo charts)
1] Mabel Sands, m. Clarence Granville Sinclair
2] Mahlon Day Sands
3] Edith Minturn
4] Abraham B. Sands
5] Sarah A. Day
6] Robert Bowne Minturn
7] Anna Mary Wendell
8] Nathaniel Sands
9] Rebecca C. Binninger
10] Mahlon Day, of New York
11] Mary Kerr, of Manchester, England
12] William Minturn
13] Sarah Bowne
14] John Lansing Wendell
15] Susan Carter
16] David Sands
17] Clementina Hallock
18] Abraham Binninger
19-23] -----
24] William Minturn
25] Penelope Green
26] Robert Bowne
27] Elizabeth Hartshorne
28] Cornelius Wendell
29] Anna Lansing
30-31] -----
One extension since Matt mentions (below) the Willetts descent for the 7th E/Durham,
Hannah Willetts = Samuel Underhill
Dinah Underhill = John Bowne
Robert Bowne, [#26 above]
Wendell family seen here in the ancestry of John Archibald Sinclair, 3rd Viscount Thurso, is the same Wendell family that's ancestral to Anne Catharine Tredick Wendell, wife of Henry Herbert, 6th E/Carnarvon and her sister Philippa Fendall Wendall, wife of Randolph Algernon Ronald Stewart, 12th E/Galloway. [I don't know, frankly, if there's more than this one Wendell family in the United States]
Cordially,
Marc
Matt A
Apr 20, 2013, 11:45:21 AM4/20/13
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20. Samuel Day
21. Nancy _____
This is all that I can find on them from the finding guide to the Mahlon Day Papers, though it is probable that there is more information in the papers themselves. http://www.haverford.edu/library/special/aids/mahlonday/mday.xml
-Matt Ahlgren
Matt A
Apr 20, 2013, 11:50:48 AM4/20/13
to
On Saturday, April 20, 2013 8:32:00 AM UTC-4, hoove...@yahoo.com wrote:
Matt A
Apr 20, 2013, 12:07:19 PM4/20/13
to
On Saturday, April 20, 2013 8:32:00 AM UTC-4, hoove...@yahoo.com wrote:
Don't know if you have this yet, but here is some New Netherland ancestry for Cornelius Wendell and Anna Lansing:
56. Harmanus Wendell Jr.
57. Catharine van Vechten
58. Gerrit Lansing Jr.
59. Wyntje van den Bergh
112. Harmanus Wendell Sr.
113. Anna Sanders Glen
226. John Sanders Glen
There is more in the full book, of which there are only selections on Google Books. http://books.google.com/books?id=WdwNExWb7_QC&pg=PA410&lpg=PA410&dq=John+Lansing+Wendell+Susan+Carter&source=bl&ots=aMKFLrPaoJ&sig=1oSifsE1pHiZdd6WuHGfLJVfjN8&hl=en&sa=X&ei=mLlyUbyUHImuqQGxqYAw&ved=0CBgQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=John%20Lansing%20Wendell%20Susan%20Carter&f=false
-Matt Ahlgren
Matt A
Apr 20, 2013, 12:32:42 PM4/20/13
to
114. Reuben Cornelise van Vechten
115. Geertruy Witbeck
230. Lucas Jansz Witbeck
231. Catarina Melchersz van Deusen
460. Jan Thomasz Witbeck
461. Geertruy Andries
462. Melchior Abrahamsz van Deusen
463. Engeltje van Schoonderwoert
924. Abraham Pietersz van Deusen
925. Tryntje Melchiors
926. Rutger Jansen van Schoonderwoert
927. Tryntje Jansz van Breestede
1854. Jan Jansen van Breestede
1855. Engeltje Jans
As a descendant of #s 926 & 927, I find this very interesting.
-Matt Ahlgren
Chris Pitt Lewis
Apr 20, 2013, 12:50:09 PM4/20/13
to
In message <907b2c01-4ecf-42be...@googlegroups.com>,
hoove...@yahoo.com writes
the son of a baronet and grandson of the 6th duke of Beaufort, and quite
intriguing, because there is something strange about the records of
Helen M Livingston's marriage.
There are two relevant marriages in the England and Wales quarterly
marriage indexes.
Granville Frederick R Farquhar married Helen M Livingston in jul-sep
1895 in the St George Hanover Square registration district in London.
The page number (1016) is towards the high end of the marriage entries
for that district and quarter, and suggests a marriage in the register
office or a non-Anglican church.
Granville Frederick R Farquhar married Helen Margaretta Livingston or
Elmhirst in jan-mar 1896 in Billesdon registration district in
Leicestershire. The index lists her under both surnames, which means
that both appear on the marriage certificate. This may be either because
she has both a current and previous surname, or simply because her
father, whose name appears on the certificate, has a different surname.
One cannot tell without paying for a certificate or checking the entry
in the relevant church register.
The second marriage was announced in the (London) Times, on 10 jan 1896,
but she has a different second christian name:
"On the 8th inst., at East Norton Parish Church, by the Rev. Hugh Parry,
Rector of Tugby and East Norton, Granville Farquhar to Helen McEvers,
daughter of the late E. L. Livingston."
East Norton was in Billesdon registration district.
It would be unusual to have a register office wedding followed by a
church one (and the second ceremony should not have been registered),
but one can imagine various reasons why it might have happened. The
Elmhirst connection clearly needs further research. There does not seem
to be any earlier marriage in England which could be hers.
The Farquhar family are at Batsford Park, Moreton in Marsh,
Gloucestershire in the 1911 England census, misindexed by Find My Past
as "Farguhar". Helen Farquhar's age is given as 50 and her birthplace as
New York City, USA. As well as their 3 children and many servants, the
household includes Granville's sister, great nephew and great niece
(called nephew and niece), and an American "visitor", Walter Struthers,
age 29, single, born New York City.
In the 1901 census, miscopied by the enumerator as "Fargulem" (and
indexed thus by Find My Past) the family are at 24, Park Street, St
George Hanover Square, London. Helen's age is given as 40 and her
birthplace simply as "USA". (In 1911 we see the original schedules
completed by the householder; in 1901 we can only see the enumerator's
books, transcribed from the schedules. Looking at Granville's
handwriting in 1911, one can understand the enumerator's problem in
1901.)
This suggests a birthdate for Helen in 1860 or 1861.
It also seems probable that her real name "Helen McEvers Livingston",
and that she may have adopted "Margaretta" as something a little more
exotic.
Ancestry.com shows that Edward Louis Livingston, age 35, "born in New
York, State of New York" applied for a US passport 4 Nov 1865. His
identity was attested by Charles Livingston. (Also Edward Livingston
born New York 16 dec 1856, son of Edward Louis Livingston, was issued a
US passport 20 apr 1918 (and again on 1 jun 1921), when he was living in
Pau, France. Prior to 1913, he lived at Lenox, Mass.)
The death of Edward Louis Livingston age 59 on 16 jan 1888 at Newport
RI, funeral(?) Trinity Church NYC was reported in the New York Evening
Post 18 Jan 1888 (Barber Collection of newspaper death notices, on
ancestry.com).
Edward Lewis Livingston b 6 dec 1829 d 16 jan 1888 is buried in the
Charles McEvers family vault in Trinity Churchyard, NYC, according to
www.findagrave.com That website allots parents to him, which may be
guesswork, but he clearly belongs somewhere in the untraced lines on
page 101 of "The Livingston family in America", where there are two
Livingston-McEvers marriages.
--
Chris Pitt Lewis
hoove...@yahoo.com
Apr 20, 2013, 1:14:25 PM4/20/13
to
Matt,
This makes John Archibald Sinclair, 3rd Viscount Thurso, 6th Bt. a distant cousin of Ralph Thomas Campion George Sherman Stonor, 7th Baron Camoys through 924 & 925. The 3rd Viscount Thurso is also distantly related to the late recording artist Kurt Donald Cobain.
And getting back to the Sands family in the ancestry of the Viscount Thurso, they're also ancestors of the actor Michael Kirk Douglas (Leo's Genealogics site shows the line back to Mary Sands (I00513895), wife of John Reid. Mary was a daughter of Samuel Sands and Dorothy Ray who are ancestors of the 7th Baron Huntingfield (I sent you his Rutgers descent and others his surprisingly -- to me -- close relationship the Grimaldis of Monaco). I need to find a source that categorically states that Dorothy Ray Sands connects to the ancestry of Archduchess Yolande of Austria "from" last Sunday.
And back to the Seymour family in the Earl of Durham there's ...
Isaac Seymour, of Peekskill, New York = Sarah H. Scott
Charlotte Hildebrand Seymour = James George Averell
Harriet Seymour Averell = George Crawford Clark
Edith Gilbert Clark = Reginald Fincke
Nancy Seymour Fincke = John David Drummond, 8th E/Perth,
11th V/Strathallan
These Seymours are all members of the same Seymour family ancestral to Jane Seymour Fonda, *actress*, and to Peter Fonda, *actor* and to Bridget Fonda *actress*. Some in the Lazy Genealogy Genre [LGG] have been known to toss those in the specific category of *actor* or *actress* into the broader and more general category of *artist*. According to a report I read on this newsgroup a while back either Jane Seymour Fonda or some of her children were born in the same hospital in New York as Anderson Hays Cooper of CNN.
Marc
This makes John Archibald Sinclair, 3rd Viscount Thurso, 6th Bt. a distant cousin of Ralph Thomas Campion George Sherman Stonor, 7th Baron Camoys through 924 & 925. The 3rd Viscount Thurso is also distantly related to the late recording artist Kurt Donald Cobain.
And getting back to the Sands family in the ancestry of the Viscount Thurso, they're also ancestors of the actor Michael Kirk Douglas (Leo's Genealogics site shows the line back to Mary Sands (I00513895), wife of John Reid. Mary was a daughter of Samuel Sands and Dorothy Ray who are ancestors of the 7th Baron Huntingfield (I sent you his Rutgers descent and others his surprisingly -- to me -- close relationship the Grimaldis of Monaco). I need to find a source that categorically states that Dorothy Ray Sands connects to the ancestry of Archduchess Yolande of Austria "from" last Sunday.
And back to the Seymour family in the Earl of Durham there's ...
Isaac Seymour, of Peekskill, New York = Sarah H. Scott
Charlotte Hildebrand Seymour = James George Averell
Harriet Seymour Averell = George Crawford Clark
Edith Gilbert Clark = Reginald Fincke
Nancy Seymour Fincke = John David Drummond, 8th E/Perth,
11th V/Strathallan
These Seymours are all members of the same Seymour family ancestral to Jane Seymour Fonda, *actress*, and to Peter Fonda, *actor* and to Bridget Fonda *actress*. Some in the Lazy Genealogy Genre [LGG] have been known to toss those in the specific category of *actor* or *actress* into the broader and more general category of *artist*. According to a report I read on this newsgroup a while back either Jane Seymour Fonda or some of her children were born in the same hospital in New York as Anderson Hays Cooper of CNN.
Marc
hoove...@yahoo.com
Apr 20, 2013, 1:39:41 PM4/20/13
to
Chris,
Thank you very much for the time and effort you put into this (Matt's time and efforts are always appreciated as well). This is a great example of how positive results can come about when a "different set of eyes" takes a look at a situation.
For anyone interested, the family Chris is referring to is as follows,
Robert R. Livingston (1718-1775) = Margaret Beekman (bp 1724-1800)
were ancestors of Eleanor Roosevelt, wife of President Franklin Roosevelt and appear on page 87 of the Livingston genealogy referred to with most of their children on page 87, the rest on page 88.
Robert R. Livingston & Margaret Beekman's son John Robert Livingston, (1755-1851), m. (2) Eliza McEvers and had,
1 Robert Montgomery Livingston, m. Sarah Barclay Bache
2 Angelica, dum.
3 Edward, m. Sarah Suckley, no issue listed
4 John Robert, m. Mary McEvers, no issue listed
5 Charles, dum.
6 Serena, m. Col Charles Croghan
7 Eliza, m. Capt Benjamin Page
8 Margaret, m. Capt Lowndes Brown
Robert R. Livingston & Margaret Beekman's son Edward Livingston (1764-1836), m. (1) Mary McEvers and had,
1 Charles Edward, b. 1790
2 Julia, b. 1794
3 Lewis, b. 1798, d. 1822
Interesting to note the appearance of the forename Lewis here.
Thanks again to both Matt & Chris
Thank you very much for the time and effort you put into this (Matt's time and efforts are always appreciated as well). This is a great example of how positive results can come about when a "different set of eyes" takes a look at a situation.
For anyone interested, the family Chris is referring to is as follows,
Robert R. Livingston (1718-1775) = Margaret Beekman (bp 1724-1800)
were ancestors of Eleanor Roosevelt, wife of President Franklin Roosevelt and appear on page 87 of the Livingston genealogy referred to with most of their children on page 87, the rest on page 88.
Robert R. Livingston & Margaret Beekman's son John Robert Livingston, (1755-1851), m. (2) Eliza McEvers and had,
1 Robert Montgomery Livingston, m. Sarah Barclay Bache
2 Angelica, dum.
3 Edward, m. Sarah Suckley, no issue listed
4 John Robert, m. Mary McEvers, no issue listed
5 Charles, dum.
6 Serena, m. Col Charles Croghan
7 Eliza, m. Capt Benjamin Page
8 Margaret, m. Capt Lowndes Brown
Robert R. Livingston & Margaret Beekman's son Edward Livingston (1764-1836), m. (1) Mary McEvers and had,
1 Charles Edward, b. 1790
2 Julia, b. 1794
3 Lewis, b. 1798, d. 1822
Interesting to note the appearance of the forename Lewis here.
Thanks again to both Matt & Chris
Wjhonson
Apr 21, 2013, 2:59:59 AM4/21/13
to ch...@cjpl.demon.co.uk, gen-me...@rootsweb.com
In a crossing in 1910, where Granville is alone, he mentions that his nearest relative is his "wife Helen" living at 24 Park St in London.
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Wjhonson
Apr 21, 2013, 3:02:55 AM4/21/13
to hoove...@yahoo.com, gen-me...@rootsweb.com
John Robert Livingston's first wife Mary died in 1843.
In the 1850 census, where we also find his son listed, the subject of this thread, the wife there listed now, 'age 40 born New York" is named Helen.
So after Mary died, he married again to this Helen.
-----Original Message-----
From: hoover_marc <hoove...@yahoo.com>
To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
In the 1850 census, where we also find his son listed, the subject of this thread, the wife there listed now, 'age 40 born New York" is named Helen.
So after Mary died, he married again to this Helen.
-----Original Message-----
From: hoover_marc <hoove...@yahoo.com>
To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Wjhonson
Apr 21, 2013, 4:16:33 AM4/21/13
to wjho...@aol.com, ch...@cjpl.demon.co.uk, gen-me...@rootsweb.com
In the 1891 census of england at St George hanover square
It looks like they are in some kind of hotel as there are several housemaids and waiters and so on, and then a list of "Visitors", among whom as
Helen McEwers 23
Josephine Livingstone 55
both of New York
and then immediately next is Marshall Field of Chicago (!)
How interesting
-----Original Message-----
From: Wjhonson <wjho...@aol.com>
To: chris <ch...@cjpl.demon.co.uk>; gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sun, Apr 21, 2013 1:08 am
Subject: Re: OT: Who was Edward Louis Livingston, great-great-grandfather of the 7th Earl of Durham?
In a crossing in 1910, where Granville is alone, he mentions that his nearest
relative is his "wife Helen" living at 24 Park St in London.
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Pitt Lewis <ch...@cjpl.demon.co.uk>
It looks like they are in some kind of hotel as there are several housemaids and waiters and so on, and then a list of "Visitors", among whom as
Helen McEwers 23
Josephine Livingstone 55
both of New York
and then immediately next is Marshall Field of Chicago (!)
How interesting
-----Original Message-----
From: Wjhonson <wjho...@aol.com>
To: chris <ch...@cjpl.demon.co.uk>; gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sun, Apr 21, 2013 1:08 am
Subject: Re: OT: Who was Edward Louis Livingston, great-great-grandfather of the 7th Earl of Durham?
In a crossing in 1910, where Granville is alone, he mentions that his nearest
relative is his "wife Helen" living at 24 Park St in London.
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Pitt Lewis <ch...@cjpl.demon.co.uk>
Wjhonson
Apr 21, 2013, 4:18:24 AM4/21/13
to wjho...@aol.com, ch...@cjpl.demon.co.uk, gen-me...@rootsweb.com
PS helen is listed as married, but no husband is apparent here.
-----Original Message-----
From: Wjhonson <wjho...@aol.com>
To: wjhonson <wjho...@aol.com>; chris <ch...@cjpl.demon.co.uk>; gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sun, Apr 21, 2013 1:16 am
Subject: Re: OT: Who was Edward Louis Livingston, great-great-grandfather of the 7th Earl of Durham?
In the 1891 census of england at St George hanover square
It looks like they are in some kind of hotel as there are several housemaids and waiters and so on, and then a list of "Visitors", among whom as
Helen McEwers 23
Josephine Livingstone 55
both of New York
and then immediately next is Marshall Field of Chicago (!)
How interesting
-----Original Message-----
From: Wjhonson <wjho...@aol.com>
To: chris <ch...@cjpl.demon.co.uk>; gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sun, Apr 21, 2013 1:08 am
Subject: Re: OT: Who was Edward Louis Livingston, great-great-grandfather of the 7th Earl of Durham?
In a crossing in 1910, where Granville is alone, he mentions that his nearest
relative is his "wife Helen" living at 24 Park St in London.
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Pitt Lewis <ch...@cjpl.demon.co.uk>
To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sat, Apr 20, 2013 10:00 am
-----Original Message-----
From: Wjhonson <wjho...@aol.com>
To: wjhonson <wjho...@aol.com>; chris <ch...@cjpl.demon.co.uk>; gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sun, Apr 21, 2013 1:16 am
Subject: Re: OT: Who was Edward Louis Livingston, great-great-grandfather of the 7th Earl of Durham?
In the 1891 census of england at St George hanover square
It looks like they are in some kind of hotel as there are several housemaids and waiters and so on, and then a list of "Visitors", among whom as
Helen McEwers 23
Josephine Livingstone 55
both of New York
and then immediately next is Marshall Field of Chicago (!)
How interesting
-----Original Message-----
From: Wjhonson <wjho...@aol.com>
To: chris <ch...@cjpl.demon.co.uk>; gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sun, Apr 21, 2013 1:08 am
Subject: Re: OT: Who was Edward Louis Livingston, great-great-grandfather of the 7th Earl of Durham?
In a crossing in 1910, where Granville is alone, he mentions that his nearest
relative is his "wife Helen" living at 24 Park St in London.
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Pitt Lewis <ch...@cjpl.demon.co.uk>
To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sat, Apr 20, 2013 10:00 am
Wjhonson
Apr 21, 2013, 4:27:23 AM4/21/13
to wjho...@aol.com, ch...@cjpl.demon.co.uk, gen-me...@rootsweb.com
In the 1871 census they are at St Mary, Leamington, co Warw.
where Josephine the mother is 35 (really should be 42 to 44)
and she has a daughter Josephine 16, Edmund (should be Edward) 14 (this age is right), and Helen age 10
Also Edward Livingston in 1887 announced the debut of his daughter Clarisse Hazeltine Livingston
Unless there were two Edwards in New York Society, this must be the same family as well. This Clarisse was born Jul 1869. Perhaps Edward and Mary seperated since she is said to have been living for "35 years" at Eastnor Castle when she died in 1908.
where Josephine the mother is 35 (really should be 42 to 44)
and she has a daughter Josephine 16, Edmund (should be Edward) 14 (this age is right), and Helen age 10
Also Edward Livingston in 1887 announced the debut of his daughter Clarisse Hazeltine Livingston
Unless there were two Edwards in New York Society, this must be the same family as well. This Clarisse was born Jul 1869. Perhaps Edward and Mary seperated since she is said to have been living for "35 years" at Eastnor Castle when she died in 1908.
Renia
Apr 21, 2013, 7:16:02 AM4/21/13
to
Edward Louis Livingston applied for a US passport on 4th November, 1865.
He was born in the city of New York. The witness was Charles Livinston,
who was acquainted with him and knew him to be an American Citizen.
Edward was then 35 years old, 5' 8" tall, with blue eyes, a high
forehead, aquiline nose, small mouth, oval chin, light hair, a fair
complexion and a thin face. On 14th March, 1864, he was sojourning in
Dresden.
As Will Johnson mentioned, he seems to appear in the 1850 census of New
York as Lewis Livingston, living with his parents. John R Livingston, a
50-year-old lawyer, wife Helen, and siblings Charles, Cora, Helen and
Angelica, all born New York.
He was born in the city of New York. The witness was Charles Livinston,
who was acquainted with him and knew him to be an American Citizen.
Edward was then 35 years old, 5' 8" tall, with blue eyes, a high
forehead, aquiline nose, small mouth, oval chin, light hair, a fair
complexion and a thin face. On 14th March, 1864, he was sojourning in
Dresden.
As Will Johnson mentioned, he seems to appear in the 1850 census of New
York as Lewis Livingston, living with his parents. John R Livingston, a
50-year-old lawyer, wife Helen, and siblings Charles, Cora, Helen and
Angelica, all born New York.
Chris Pitt Lewis
Apr 21, 2013, 10:17:15 AM4/21/13
to
In message <mailman.2.136653284...@rootsweb.com>,
Wjhonson <wjho...@aol.com> writes
And in 1881 the husband and wife are at least temporarily reunited, at a
house called Oaklands in the village of Gaddesby, Leicestershire:
Edward L Livingstone Head M 51 Gentleman US America (New York)
Josephine do. Wife M 45 Lady Do.
Helen do. daur U 20 Do. Do.
I must have run out of steam yesterday before trying the combination
"Josephine" and "Livingstone".
Because of the incorrect age (23) I doubt that the Helen McEwers in the
1891 is the Helen Livingston we are looking for (though I did wonder
yesterday if the "McEvers" in the Times marriage announcement was a
third surname for her, before deciding that it was much more likely to
be a christian name). There are several Helen Livingston(e)s in the
1891 British census, mostly in Scotland; none seems to be her, but I
have not checked them thoroughly.
--
Chris Pitt Lewis
Wjhonson <wjho...@aol.com> writes
house called Oaklands in the village of Gaddesby, Leicestershire:
Edward L Livingstone Head M 51 Gentleman US America (New York)
Josephine do. Wife M 45 Lady Do.
Helen do. daur U 20 Do. Do.
I must have run out of steam yesterday before trying the combination
"Josephine" and "Livingstone".
Because of the incorrect age (23) I doubt that the Helen McEwers in the
1891 is the Helen Livingston we are looking for (though I did wonder
yesterday if the "McEvers" in the Times marriage announcement was a
third surname for her, before deciding that it was much more likely to
be a christian name). There are several Helen Livingston(e)s in the
1891 British census, mostly in Scotland; none seems to be her, but I
have not checked them thoroughly.
--
Chris Pitt Lewis
hoove...@yahoo.com
Apr 21, 2013, 5:37:03 PM4/21/13
to
!
Now that I have a chance to get back to this I'm starting out with a good laugh, courtesy of Matt. I didn't check this link until now and learn that Edward Munson Day, a brother of a third great-grandmother of the 3rd Viscount Thurso married Charlotte Briggs Seymour and this discussion began with Edward Louis Livingston a second great-grandfather of the 7th Earl of Durham, and a son-in-law of Margaret Elizabeth Seymour Kernochan.
The relationship between Charlotte and Margaret will have to wait (for me to figure out, anyone else who's interested is more than welcome to do so), but the Munson link is through Sarah Day Sands' and Edward Munson Day's paternal grandmother Nancy Munson, wife of Samuel Day.
This leads back to Munsons in the ancestry of Lucy Ware Webb, wife of US President Rutherford B. Hayes. Samuel Munson (1643-1693) who married Martha Bradley, daughter of William Bradley & Alice Pritchard and I'm wondering if there's a connection to Nathan Bradley of East Guilford, Connecticut, (1638-1713), who married Hester Griswold and are among the American ancestors of Sir Winston Leonard Spencer-Churchill.
With regard to the Wendells, I've sent Leo and Matt an article which shows that Harmanus Wendell, [added by Matt, #112] was a son of Jeronimus Wendell, (1655-1690), listed in Leo's excellent Genealogics database as I00583077. Jeronimus Wendell was a younger brother of Capt Johannes Wendell, an ancestor of Anne Catharine Tredick Wendell, wife of Henry Herbert, 6th Earl of the Town and County of Carnarvon and Philippa Fendall Wendell, Anne's sister, wife of the 12th Earl of Galloway. No, I'm not being Johnsonian, I understand that when you're sisters born of the same parents you automatically have the same ancestry.
American Wendell descendants as shown by Leo include the /authoress/ Louisa May Alcott, the actor Montgomery Clift and Dorothy Quincy, wife of Governor John Hancock, a signer of the American Declaration of Independence.
These sisters also have some very interesting southern ties (from an American standpoint. Those in Australia would think of them as way up in the north), ie Lee, Corbin, Bland, Randolph, Grymes, Townley, Jennings, Corbin, as shown on Genealogics. I mention these Southern families for Steve Riggan's benefit, assuming that, for some reason, he's following this thread in the first place.
Cordially,
Marc
Now that I have a chance to get back to this I'm starting out with a good laugh, courtesy of Matt. I didn't check this link until now and learn that Edward Munson Day, a brother of a third great-grandmother of the 3rd Viscount Thurso married Charlotte Briggs Seymour and this discussion began with Edward Louis Livingston a second great-grandfather of the 7th Earl of Durham, and a son-in-law of Margaret Elizabeth Seymour Kernochan.
The relationship between Charlotte and Margaret will have to wait (for me to figure out, anyone else who's interested is more than welcome to do so), but the Munson link is through Sarah Day Sands' and Edward Munson Day's paternal grandmother Nancy Munson, wife of Samuel Day.
This leads back to Munsons in the ancestry of Lucy Ware Webb, wife of US President Rutherford B. Hayes. Samuel Munson (1643-1693) who married Martha Bradley, daughter of William Bradley & Alice Pritchard and I'm wondering if there's a connection to Nathan Bradley of East Guilford, Connecticut, (1638-1713), who married Hester Griswold and are among the American ancestors of Sir Winston Leonard Spencer-Churchill.
With regard to the Wendells, I've sent Leo and Matt an article which shows that Harmanus Wendell, [added by Matt, #112] was a son of Jeronimus Wendell, (1655-1690), listed in Leo's excellent Genealogics database as I00583077. Jeronimus Wendell was a younger brother of Capt Johannes Wendell, an ancestor of Anne Catharine Tredick Wendell, wife of Henry Herbert, 6th Earl of the Town and County of Carnarvon and Philippa Fendall Wendell, Anne's sister, wife of the 12th Earl of Galloway. No, I'm not being Johnsonian, I understand that when you're sisters born of the same parents you automatically have the same ancestry.
American Wendell descendants as shown by Leo include the /authoress/ Louisa May Alcott, the actor Montgomery Clift and Dorothy Quincy, wife of Governor John Hancock, a signer of the American Declaration of Independence.
These sisters also have some very interesting southern ties (from an American standpoint. Those in Australia would think of them as way up in the north), ie Lee, Corbin, Bland, Randolph, Grymes, Townley, Jennings, Corbin, as shown on Genealogics. I mention these Southern families for Steve Riggan's benefit, assuming that, for some reason, he's following this thread in the first place.
Cordially,
Marc
Hal Bradley
Apr 21, 2013, 6:43:00 PM4/21/13
to hoove...@yahoo.com, gen-me...@rootsweb.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gen-mediev...@rootsweb.com [mailto:gen-medieval-
> bou...@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of hoove...@yahoo.com
> Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2013 2:37 PM
> To: gen-me...@rootsweb.com
> Subject: Re: OT: Who was Edward Louis Livingston, great-great-
>
> !
<<Snip>>
> This leads back to Munsons in the ancestry of Lucy Ware Webb, wife of
> US President Rutherford B. Hayes. Samuel Munson (1643-1693) who
> married Martha Bradley, daughter of William Bradley & Alice Pritchard
> and I'm wondering if there's a connection to Nathan Bradley of East
> Guilford, Connecticut, (1638-1713), who married Hester Griswold and are
> among the American ancestors of Sir Winston Leonard Spencer-Churchill.
<<snip>>
> US President Rutherford B. Hayes. Samuel Munson (1643-1693) who
> married Martha Bradley, daughter of William Bradley & Alice Pritchard
> and I'm wondering if there's a connection to Nathan Bradley of East
> Guilford, Connecticut, (1638-1713), who married Hester Griswold and are
> among the American ancestors of Sir Winston Leonard Spencer-Churchill.
Nathan Bradley is the half-brother of William Bradley.
Hal Bradley
hoove...@yahoo.com
Apr 21, 2013, 7:07:17 PM4/21/13
to
!
What in incredible way to interact with people! The first time I ever had any contact with you, Hal, was yesterday, then today you point this out! I was thinking of asking but didn't know if you'd be following this.
So we have Matt distantly related to the 3rd V/Thurso through the Rutgers family, Hal (I'm guessing since you knew the answer) through the Bradley family, me through NO American ancestry, and Renia and I several times over (I don't have my scorecard in front of me) via various descents from Richard Cecil and Jane Heckington.
Interesting helpful tips from people -- literally around the world.
What in incredible way to interact with people! The first time I ever had any contact with you, Hal, was yesterday, then today you point this out! I was thinking of asking but didn't know if you'd be following this.
So we have Matt distantly related to the 3rd V/Thurso through the Rutgers family, Hal (I'm guessing since you knew the answer) through the Bradley family, me through NO American ancestry, and Renia and I several times over (I don't have my scorecard in front of me) via various descents from Richard Cecil and Jane Heckington.
Interesting helpful tips from people -- literally around the world.
Steve Riggan
Apr 21, 2013, 8:55:37 PM4/21/13
to hoove...@yahoo.com, gen-me...@rootsweb.com
Marc, I got your message on all those Southern families and, yes, I follow the threads. Thanks for that. And count me in with you and Renia on the Richard Cecil and Jane Heckington descent. Mine is through daughter Margaret Cecil Cave :)
Steve Riggan
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Steve Riggan
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