TAYLOR-TYNDALE-ROWLAND of 15th-16th cent. Northumberland
Richard B. Anderson, Jr.
11/19],
I'm taking a longshot here, hoping that one of the experts
out there can help me track down printed
documentation about part of my very early ancestry,
involving the Northumberland surnames of
TAYLOR, ROWLAND, and possibly TYNDALE.
One of my sets of 14th g-grandparents was John TAYLOR [b.
1478, possibly in Rothbury], and Susan
ROWLAND [b. 1482 in Rothbury], by way of their son ROWLAND
[Dr. Rowland TAYLOR, apparently an
important clergyman of the period, who was b. 6 Nov. 1510].
Some of the information I have on the
family [which passed through untold numbers of hands before
it reached me] came from _The_life_of_ Dr._Rowland_Taylor_,
by William James Brown, courtesy of Rev. John Betton,
present Rector of Hadleigh, Suffolk, England, but I don't
have actual copies of the information. What I have came
from
computer data files from other TAYLOR researchers that
quoted that book as a source. Other
references I have indicate Dr. Taylor was [or may have been]
burned at the stake in February 1554/55. Another tidbit
indicates that another member of the family was responsible
for an early translation of the Bible.
After reading all of those tidbits, I decided I wanted to
find printed copies of that information as
documentation to go in my files to confirm my lineage.
Also, if anyone knows of sources for such
information, I'd like to find details about descendants from
John & Susan. I apparently have 2 lines of
TAYLOR descent --
1) John TAYLOR (1478-?) m. Susan ROWLAND (1482-?)
2) (Dr.) Rowland TAYLOR (6 Nov 1510 in Rothbury,
Northumberland - 3 Feb 1554/55 in Hadley/
Hadleigh, Suffolk) m. Margaret TYNDALE in 1525
3) Thomas TAYLOR I {or Sr.} [15 Sept 1548, Hadleigh,
Suffolk, England - ?] m. Elizabeth BURWELL
abt. 1573. Elizabeth b. abt. 1552 in Hadleigh, d.
abt. 1575 in Cambridge.
4) Thomas TAYLOR II {or Jr.} [b. 15 March 1573/74 in
Hadleigh, d. 1618, m. Margaret SWINDERLY 9
Oct. 1599. Margaret b. 1578 in Copenhagen, Denmark,
d. ?
5) John TAYLOR I [b. 10 August 1607 in Carlisle, d.
January 1651/52 in Lancaster Co., Virginia] m.
Elizabeth [No Maiden Name Known]
6) John TAYLOR II [b. 1627 in England, d. bef. 15 April
1702, prob. in Northumberland County,
Virginia] m. abt. 1650 Alice GASCOIGNE/GASKINS [b.
1631 in Northumberland County, Virginia,
d. Oct. 1702 in Northumberland Co., Virginia]
2nd line the same up to 6th generation, where it then
follows James TAYLOR I [apparently brother of
John TAYLOR II], through James' marriage to Mary GREGORY
[his 2nd wife].
I've posted this message to Gen-Medieval as well as
Northumbria-L because of the time period involved.
I look forward to hearing from anyone who can help me with
information on any of the above families.
My access to records that would be old enough is quite
limited, even more so if the records are in
England since I live in Virginia.
Best wishes,
Richard Blair Anderson, Jr., Danville, Virginia USA
r.and...@d-k.com
Josephine Lindsay Bass
this quite awhile, and finding conflicting data - would appreciate anything
that anyone can provide.
The ancestry of James has 3 possible lines (sets of parents) - Rowland
Taylor is one.
Another is thru Mathew Taylor whose ancestor possibly is
Baron Taillefer, Norman Minstral of Wm the Conqueror, led the charge at
Hastings, going into the Battle singing the Old War Songs; For his great
services, he was given large landed possessions in the county of Kent,
which descended to his posterity during the Reigns of Henry III, Richard
II, Henry IV and Henry V. His descendants became the Earls of Pennington,
who bear the same arms as those brought to VA by James Taylor, the
immigrant, and now in possession of the family - From E. C. Meade,
Genealogist.
Hanzer Taylefer (Taylor) lived in the time of Henry II. Continued the line
with the family of Taytown in the county of Kent.
John Taylor of Shadockhurst of Kent during the reign of Henry VII. d. 1551.
wife: Thomasine, the dau of John Isaac of Sevington. Children: William,
John, Joan, Margaret, Alice and Elizabeth.
William Taylor was living in the Reign of Richard II, and from him came
John Taylor of Shadockhurst in Kent, during the Reign of Henry VII. He
died in 1551 and by his wife, Thomasine, the daughter of John Isaac of
Sevington, he had six children: William, John, Joan, Margaret, Alice and
Elizabeth.
John, 2nd son of John and Thomasine Isaac Taylor was Lord of the Manor of
Shadockhurst. m. Elizabeth, dau of Philip Chute, Esq of Brothersden.
Children: George, Matthw, Susan b 1560, Phillipa and Eve. and 2nd. m.
Bridgit, dau of Richard Buck of RYE. Children: John, Thomas, Mary and
Elizabeth.
John, second son of John and Thomasine (Isaac) Taylor was Lord of the Manor
of Shadockhurst and married two wives;
Matthew, the 2nd son, b abt 1555, and if Burke be correct the ancestor of
the family which settled in America.
He was prob the grandfather of James Taylor, the immigrant from Carlisle.
(James is referred to as the Knights of the Golden Horseshoe VA Taylor line)
Love to know more about GREGORY & THORNTON
are tany of these connected to any Royal Line???? I have heard that
Carlisle ENG is no where close to Shadockhurst Manor.
Descendant Report - 20 Nov 1998
覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧
Robert GREGORY - 14658 (About 1549 - ) & Isabel BROCKSLEY - 14659 (About
1560 - )
Roger GREGORY OF STOCKWITH - 10763 (About 1590 - ) & MARGARET THORNTON -
10764 (About 1585 - )
JOHN GREGORY REV - 4105 (About 1623 - 1697) & Elizabeth BISHOPP - 4106
(About 1641 - )
John GREGORY Jr - 14795
Richard GREGORY - 7837
Rodger GREGORY COL - 16528 ( - 1730/1731) & Mildred WASHINGTON - 16529
(1695/1696 - 5 Sep 1747)
Mary Frances GREGORY - 16517 (1720 - 22 Jan 1790) & Francis THORNTON
III COL - 16516 (7 Apr 1704/1714 - 7 Apr 1749)
Elizabeth GREGORY* - 17389 (1724 - 26 Mar 1796) & Henry WILLIS - 17390
Elizabeth GREGORY* - 17389 (1724 - 26 Mar 1796) & Thomas WALKER DR -
17391 (25 Jan 1714 - 9 Nov 1794)
Elizabeth GREGORY* - 17389 (1724 - 26 Mar 1796) & Reuben THORNTON COL -
17388 (1717 - 1768)
Mildred GREGORY - 17356 & John THORNTON COL - 17355 (1719 - 1777)
MARY GREGORY* - 1853 (About 1665 - 1747) & James TAYLOR COL I - 1852 (?
12 Feb 1635 - 30 Apr 1698)
John TAYLOR - 2523 (1684 - 1684)
Anne TAYLOR - 2520 (12 Jan 1684/1685 - 1731) & Edward EASTHAM Jr - 16156
Elizabeth TAYLOR - 15779 (12 Jan 1685 - )
Mary TAYLOR - 15778 (21 Jan 1686 - )
Mary Bishop TAYLOR* - 1854 (29 Jun 1688 - 10 Jun 1770/1772) & Henry
PENDLETON - 1855 (15 May 1683 - May 1721)
Mary Bishop TAYLOR* - 1854 (29 Jun 1688 - 10 Jun 1770/1772) & Edward
WATKINS - 19604 ( - Before 1770)
Edmund TAYLOR - 2514 (5 Jul 1690 - ? 1726/1755) & Sarah BROOKING - 15777
Elizabeth TAYLOR - 2521 (12 Jan 1692 - )
JOHN TAYLOR Sr - 1822 (18 Nov 1696 - 22 Mar 1780) & CATHERINE PENDLETON
- 1823 (8 Dec 1699 - 26 Jul 1774)
MARY GREGORY* - 1853 (About 1665 - 1747) & Rowland THOMAS - 7838
Elizabeth GREGORY - 22438 & Thomas WHEELER - 22439
josie
jb...@digital.net
216 Beach Park Lane
Cape Canaveral, FL 32920-5003
Home of The *HARRISON* Repository & *MY FAMILY*
http://moon.ouhsc.edu/rbonner/harintro.htm
My Family WWW: http://moon.ouhsc.edu/rbonner/index.htm
LINDSAY & HARRISON Surnames & CSA-HISTORY Roots Mail List
Data Managed by Becky Bass Bonner and Josephine Lindsay Bass
Cristopher Nash
>John Taylor of Shadockhurst of Kent during the reign of Henry VII. d. 1551.
> wife: Thomasine, the dau of John Isaac of Sevington. Children: William,
>John, Joan, Margaret, Alice and Elizabeth.
>
>William Taylor was living in the Reign of Richard II, and from him came
>John Taylor of Shadockhurst in Kent, during the Reign of Henry VII. He
>died in 1551 and by his wife, Thomasine, the daughter of John Isaac of
>Sevington, he had six children: William, John, Joan, Margaret, Alice and
>Elizabeth.
>
>John, 2nd son of John and Thomasine Isaac Taylor was Lord of the Manor of
>Shadockhurst. m. Elizabeth, dau of Philip Chute, Esq of Brothersden.
>Children: George, Matthw, Susan b 1560, Phillipa and Eve. and 2nd. m.
>Bridgit, dau of Richard Buck of RYE. Children: John, Thomas, Mary and
>Elizabeth.
>
>John, second son of John and Thomasine (Isaac) Taylor was Lord of the Manor
>of Shadockhurst and married two wives;
>
>Matthew, the 2nd son, b abt 1555, and if Burke be correct the ancestor of
>the family which settled in America.
>
>He was prob the grandfather of James Taylor, the immigrant from Carlisle.
>(James is referred to as the Knights of the Golden Horseshoe VA Taylor line)
>
>Love to know more about GREGORY & THORNTON
>
>are tany of these connected to any Royal Line???? I have heard that
>Carlisle ENG is no where close to Shadockhurst Manor.
Yes, well seen! I'm afraid there's no material evidence of the
Shadockhurst (Kent) Taylor connection with any of the many American Taylor
families often associated with this (in any case) extremely vulnerable
'pedigree'. You'll understand how they've come about; the Shadockhurst
family happens to be one of the few 'Taylor lines' having the benefit of
some late-medieval documentation, owing to the family's social status
(explaining further its special appeal to 19th-century families hungry for
grand ancestors). Efforts have been made, too, for example -- including
that of the _Snow-Bass_ genealogies for Taylor-- to link 'Matthew' with the
Taylors of Monmouth Co, NJ, to no useful effect. If _Snow-Bass_ is how
your interest has been aroused (I note your surname) I'm sorry to have
report this!
Cris
Josephine Lindsay Bass
i am researching TAYLOR but would like to have data on
_Snow-Bass_ genealogies for Taylor- you mentioned, can you send attachment
word doc or other to jb...@digital.net.
next you say no chance that James I the VA immigrant is connected to
Shadockhurst - how say you. Can you send me some of that too.
thanks, josie
At 09:28 AM 11/20/98 -0800, Cristopher Nash wrote:
>Josephine Lindsay Bass <jb...@digital.net> wrote on 20 November 98:
>
>>John Taylor of Shadockhurst of Kent during the reign of Henry VII. d. 1551.
>> wife: Thomasine, the dau of John Isaac of Sevington.
>>Love to know more about GREGORY & THORNTON
>>
>>are any of these connected to any Royal Line???? I have heard that
Carlisle ENG is no where close to Shadockhurst Manor.
YOU WROTE:
>Yes, well seen! I'm afraid there's no material evidence of the
>Shadockhurst (Kent) Taylor connection with any of the many American Taylor
families often associated with this (in any case) extremely vulnerable
'pedigree'. You'll understand how they've come about;
the Shadockhurst family happens to be one of the few 'Taylor lines' having
the benefit of some late-medieval documentation, owing to the family's
social status (explaining further its special appeal to 19th-century
families hungry for
grand ancestors).
Efforts have been made, too, for example -- including
that of the _Snow-Bass_ genealogies for Taylor-- to link 'Matthew' with the
Taylors of Monmouth Co, NJ, to no useful effect. If _Snow-Bass_ is how
your interest has been aroused (I note your surname) I'm sorry to have
report this!
>
>Cris
>
>
>
>
KHF...@aol.com
In a message dated 11/19/98 9:44:37 PM, r.and...@d-k.com writes:
<<I look forward to hearing from anyone who can help me with
information on any of the above families.
My access to records that would be old enough is quite
limited, even more so if the records are in
England since I live in Virginia.>>
The Plantagenet Connection ran an article on this family in April 1996.
Excerpts:
JOHN TYNDALE & AMPHILLIS CONINGSBY
Dear Editors,
In Vol. 3, p. 30, [TPC, April 1995] is listed the ancestry of Margaret
Tyndale, w/o Rowland Taylor. My relationship to them is proven - if we accept
that James Taylor, b 1635, is the son on John Taylor.
By the way, my research shows that Elizabeth and Richard Taylor, the last
two children of your listed children for John Taylor, were children of 2nd
wife, Elizabeth Jones. [See TPC, page 29, April 1995.] The first five
children, I show as children by an unknown 1st wife. This was in “From Log
Cabins to the White House,” by M.T. Brewer, with no source given.
Regarding Margaret Tyndale, I’ve enclosed a Family Group Sheet on John
Tyndale, K.B., d ca. 1538, County Norfolk, England. I’ve listed Margaret as
one of his children, as did you.
In “Suffolk Manorial Families,” Vol. II, p. 152-3, is a pedigree for
Tyndale. John Tyndale has the children I have listed, plus four unknown
daughters showing their married names, but no Margaret and no female married
to a Taylor.
- Robert Motley, 42 Rocky Lane,
Cohassest, MA 02025-1350.
Editorial reply: As you pointed out, Tyndale is a place name taken from the
River Tyne. Because the name springs from the place, many unrelated families
share the same surname. There seems to have been another John Tyndale, a
merchant, different from the one listed in “Suffolk Manorial Families.” He is
mentioned, as you show, in the Dictionary of National Biography, Vol. XIX,
MacMillan,1909, pg.1351.
You make a good case that Margaret was not the daughter of John Tyndale and
Amphillis Coningsby, if the information on “Manorial Families” is correct. You
state there is additional proofs in “The New History of Gloucester” (Rudder,
Samuel, 1986, pg. 756. Perhaps this is information is derived from the
“Manorial Families” as well.
The references used for the article were “Pedigrees of Some of Charlemagne’s
Descendants,” Vol. 2, pp. 175-178, and “The Life of Rowland Taylor,”
Epsworth Press, 1610, England. It is possible that both are in error, and it
seems probable that the ancient book from 1610 was the source of the
information quoted in the Charlemagne book. I do not have a copy, as it is
quite rare. The only copy I have heard about is at the rectory in Hadleigh. If
your information is correct, then the Taylors do not connect to the Bigods, at
least in this line. We assume that the reference for the children of John
Tyndale and Amphilis Coningsby is the will of John Tyndale, P.C.C. 33
Dyngeley, 1538, and this greatly concerns me, as it would be a primary record.
The book at the rectory could well be in error if the primary records of the
courts are clear.
This being so, the line of Lincoln does not continue to Charlemagne through
this line. However, John (and his brothers, William and Edward, as well)
should be tracable. Also, so far as “Honest” Abe is concerned, the Lee line
should be traceable. It adds new mystery to the Lincoln genealogy. (See Lee
information, this issue.)
Dear Editors,
I notice as well that you show Simon de Felbrigg, father of Helena de
Felbrigg, as married to Margaret, 1st wife surname unknown. In “Suffolk
Manorial Families” gives Margaret as d/o Semovitius Duke of Silesia and his
wife Elizabeth, sister of Charles IV Emperor of Germany, who came to England
with the wife of Richard II.
In the next generation you disagree with “Manorial” again in that Roger
Bigod de Felbrigg has a wife Cecilia, not Elizabeth Scales, as in “Manorial
Families.” I have that Hugh Bigod, Earl of Norfolk, was b ca. 1174 and d Feb
1223. His wife, Maud Marshall was b ca. 1191 and d 27 Mar 1248. This means
that the latest Simon le Bigod (their younger son) could have been born was in
1223. His son, Roger le Bigod de Felbrigg, was still alive in1368 according to
“Manorial Families.” Now, if Roger was born when his father Simon was 60
years of age (1283), he would have been 85 years old in 1368. The elder Simon
le Bigod, who first married Margaret and was the son of Roger, had his will
proved in February 1443. From all of these dates, it appears that Simon de
Felbrigg who d 1443 was probably born ca. 1375-80. Simon was made K.G. by
Henry V which would have to have been between 1413-1422. His father, Roger le
Bigod de Felbrigg, who married Cecilia, and who was alive in 1368, was
probably born ca. 1345. This relationship looks correct to me, based on date
patterns. But then, the Simon le Bigod who married Maud de Felbrigg, a widow,
could NOT have been born by 1223 (the date of the death of Hugh le Bigod Earl
of Norfolk) and could not have been the father of this Roger. I am apparently
missing one (probably two) generations here. “Manorial Families” does not
explain the relationship you list on page 30, April 1995. Can you enlighten
me?
- Robert Motley, 42 Rocky Lane,
Cohassest, MA 02025-1350.
Editorial reply: Robert – the rest of your questions are probably a mute
point, so far as Lincoln is concerned, but perhaps we should try to straighten
it out for the sake of posterity. It looks as if the the source books that
most of us use are in error on this point, including the “Pedigrees of Some of
Charlemagne’s Descendants.” Since many treat this book as gospel, we should
dig out the records of the primary sources.
I am working on the assumpion that “Manorial Families” is a record of
primary sources wherever possible, so if you could recount to us the lineage
in the Manorial Book, it could probably be confirmed with the Magna Carta
book. I don’t have time for this myself, but I do hope that you can find time
to help me correct this lineage.
I am treating the Manorial book as though it is a primary source, since the
copies you sent us mention and document what I assume to be wills and court
records still on file in England. -KHF
Date: Sun, Jan 14, 1996 9:52 PM EST
From: BobInns
Subj: Tyndale Family Pedigree - Suffolk Manorial Families - Robert Motley;
Bob...@aol.com
To: KHF333
From pp. 152, 153, vol. II, Suffolk Manorial Families (paren. are my dates;
quotes are from Manorial. )
1. Hugh BIGOD, 3rd Earl Norfolk, b. abt 1178, d. Feb. 1225; m. 1207 - Maud de
MARESHALL, b. abt 1192 Pembroke, Wales, d. Mar. 1248 - "These Felbrigges were
ye issu male of Simon BIGOD of Felbrigge, younger son of Hugh BIGOD, 3d E. of
Norf."
"Robert TYNDAL; of the family of Adam de TYNDAL, Baron of South Tyndal and
of Langley Castle, temp. K. John."
"Robert 2d Lord SCALES. Lord of the Manor of Worlington, Suffolk; Inq. p.m.
1325. = Evelina, da. of Sir Hugh COURTENAY, sister of Hugh, Earl of Devon."
"Henry VII Emperor of Germany and Earl of Luxemberg; d. 1331. = Margaret,
da. of . . . Duke of Brabant."
2. Simon BIGOD, b. (abt. 1222) From this Simon (2.) to Robert (3.) are
probably two generations. You can see that this generation does not appear to
have a correct date pattern, based on dates given. Generation (3.) does.
"Robert TYNDAL of Tansover, Co. Northampton, living 1293. = Joan."
"Robert, 3d Lord SCALES, Lord of the Manor of Worlington; d. 1370. Source
- Inq. p.m. 43 E, 3 (1370). = Catherine, sister and coheir of Wm. de UFFORD,
Earl Suffolk.
"John, Earl of Luxemberg and King of Bohemia; slain 1346 at the Battle of
Cressy. = Elizabeth, da. and heir of Wenceslaus IV, King of Bohemia."
3."Sr. Robert or, Roger BIGOD Felbrigge of Felbrigge, b. (abt 1345); m.
Elizabeth eldest d. & at length coheir of the Barony of Robert L. SCALES of
Barkway. Robert or, Roger living 41 E, 3 (1368), died in Prussia."
"Sir Wm. TYNDAL of Tansover: ob. 40 E, 3, 1367; Source - Blomefield, ii.
181. = Elizabeth, cousin and heir of Sir Henry DENE of Dene, co. Northampton."
"Semovitius, Duke of Silesia and Teschina, died 1383. = Elizabeth of
Luxembourg, sister of Charles IV, Emperor of Germany, who died 1378
4."Sr. Simon Felbrigge of Felbrigge was made Kt. of ye Garter by K. Hen ye
5th" (1413- 1422) b. (abt 1367) m. "= Margaret, d. & h. of Smovitius D. of
Tcshinia & Silesia in Bohemia & his wife, sister to Charles ye 4th Emperor &
King of Bohemia. She came to England with Rich. ye 2ds wife." There is a
brass plaque, placed in Felbrigg Ch. by this Simon FELBRIGG, in 1413, on the
death of his wife Margaret that explains the above relationship. Will of
Simon, P.C.C. 14 Rous, dated Sept 1431, proved Feb.1443.
"John TYNDAL, of Tansover, and of Dene in right of his mother; d. 1 H.
5,1413 = Catherine, da. of Sir Humphrey ZOUCH.
5. "Aelana, daughter & h. of Sr. Simon Felbrigge - Soror & heres Thom.
Felbrig, was wife of Sr. Will: TYNDALL" Source - Stowe MS. 613.; b. (abt.
1390) m. = Sr. Will. TYNDALL b. (abt. 1380) of Deane in Northamp., married
Alana Fel: & d. ye 4 Hen. 6. (1426)
6. "Sr Tho. TYNDALL (b. abt 1415) of Deane, K., married Margaret YELVERTON =
Margart d. of Sr. Will. YELVERTON, Chief Justice of ye Kings Bench.
7. "Sr Will. TYNDALL b.(abt. 1445) was son of ye Heires generall of the L.
SCALES & had Hockwold & Wilton, & c. in Norf: after that Eliza, Countess of
RIVERS, died sans issue: of Hockwold in com. Norf: in the right of his wife:
he was formerly of Deane. = Mary, d. & h. of Sr Osbert MOUNDFORD of
Feltwell in Norf. Gilbert MOUNDEFORD of Hockwold in com, Norf."
Other children of Tho. TYNDALL (6.) "Anne, wife of Sr. Hen. St. JERMYN, and
Jane, wife of John BLENNERHASSET of Frense in Norf."
8. "Sr John TYNDALL b. (abt 1477) of Hockwold K., was one of ye Knights of the
Bath at ye coronation of Queen Anne BOLLEN. Source - Will, P.C.C.33
Dyngeley, 1538 = Amphillis, d. of Sr Humfrey CONYNGSBY, one of ye Judges of ye
K. Bench.
9. 8 children listed - "1- Sr Tho. TYNDALL of Hockwold K., lyeth buried at
Ely; Will, P.C.C. 37 Butts, 1584 (2 wives); 2- Will. TYNDALL married Anne, d.
of BEAUMARCH & had Will TYNDALL.;
3 - Dorothy, wife of John POYTON of Knolton in Kent, Esq.; 4- . . . wife
of KEYES; 5 - . . . wife of BACON; 6 - . . . wife of MERRICK; 7 - wife of
TYLNEY; 8 - Beatrix, 2d wife of Rob. DYNNE of Heydon in Norf.
SUMMARY: Ken, I agree that this pedigree has abundant original source material
listed and except for missing a couple of generations in the Felbrigg line,
seems correct. In generation (9.) there is no Margaret TYNDAL listed and no
child married to a TAYLOR.
- Robert Motley, 42 Rocky Lane,
Cohassest, MA 02025-1350.
Editorial Reply: Thank you your helping us set this straight, Robert. The
“Manorial Families” book was a good find. John Taylor, merchant, who married
Margaret Tyndale was not related to the Bigods. However, let us examine the
follwing lines:
Ahnentafel Chart for
President Zachary TAYLOR
submitted by Wiley A. Jarrell
GENERATION 1 ----------------
1 President Zachary TAYLOR b:24 Nov 1784, Montebello, Orange Co VA; M:(21
Jun 1810 Jefferson Co KY) Margaret Mackall SMITH; d:9 Jul 1850, (in the White
House) Washington, DC; buried Zachary Taylor National Cemetery
GENERATION 2 ----------------
2 Richard TAYLOR b:3 Apr 1744, Orange Co VA; M:(20 Aug 1779 VA)Sarah Dabney
STROTHER; d:19 Jan 1829, Lexington, KY;
3 Sarah Dabney STROTHER b:14 Dec 1760, Orange Co VA; d:13 Dec 1822,VA.
GENERATION 3 ----------------
4 Zachary TAYLOR b:17 Apr 1707, Orange Co VA; M:(circa 23 Feb 1737/8 VA)
Elizabeth LEE; d:circa 29 Mar 1768, Orange Co VA.
5 Elizabeth LEE b:1709, Northumberland Co VA; M:(circa 1720) Swan JONES.
6 William DABNEY b:____; M:(before 1760 * (?)unmarried *) Sarah BAYLY.
7 Sarah BAYLY b:____; M:??? STROTHER.
GENERATION 4 ----------------
8 James TAYLOR Jr. b:14 Mar 1674/5, King and Queen Co VA; M:(23 Feb1698/9
VA) Martha THOMPSON; d:23 Jun 1729, Orange Co VA.
9 Martha THOMPSON b:circa 1679, VA; d:19 Nov 1762, Orange Co VA.
10 Hancock LEE b:1653, Northumberland Co VA; M:Mary KENDALL; M:(before1709)
Sarah ALLERTON; d:1709.
11 Sarah ALLERTON b: roughly 1653; M: (before 1702) ??? NEWTON; living1702,
Westmoreland Co VA.
GENERATION 5 ----------------
16 James TAYLOR Sr. b:circa 1650, Carlisle, England; M:(before 1674) Frances
???; d:1698(?), King and Queen Co VA.
17 Frances ??? b:1650; d:23 Sep 1680, New Kent Co VA.
18 Roger THOMPSON b:____; M:(before 1679) ??? ???.
19 ??? ??? b:____.
20 Richard I "The Founder" LEE chr'd 22 Mar 1617/8, England; M:(before1643)
Ann CONSTABLE; d:1 Mar 1663/4, Dividing Creek, Northumberland Co VA; buried
Cobb's Hall Cemetery.
21 Ann CONSTABLE b:circa 1620, England; M:Edmund LISTER.
22 Isaac ALLERTON Jr. b:____; M:Elizabeth WILLOUGHBY; d:25 Oct 1702,
Westmoreland Co VA.
23 Elizabeth WILLOUGHBY b:____.
GENERATION 6 ----------------
40 John LEE b:1590, England; M:(before 1616) Jane HANCOCK; d:Feb1629/0,
England.
41 Jane HANCOCK b:circa 1590; d:1639, England.
42 Francis CONSTABLE b:____, England; M: (before 1620 England) ??? ???.
43 ??? ??? b:____;
44 Isaac ALLERTON b:1586; M:(MA) Fear BREWSTER; M:(4 Nov 1611 Leyden, South
Holland, NETHERLANDS) Mary NORRIS; d:1659.
45 Fear BREWSTER b:circa 1606, England; d: MA.
GENERATION 7 ----------------
80 Richard LEE b:____; M:(before 1590) Elizabeth LANGDON.
81 Elizabeth LANGDON b:____;
88 ??? ALLERTON b:____; M:??? ???;
89 ??? ??? b:____;
90 Elder William BREWSTER b:1566, Scrooby, Nottingham, England; M: (circa
1591 England) Mary WENTWORTH; d:10 Apr 1644, Plymouth, Plymouth Co MA; buried
Plymouth Cemetery.
91 Mary WENTWORTH b:1568, Scrooby, Nottingham, England; d:17 Apr 1627,
Plymouth, PLYMOUTH.
GENERATION 8 ----------------
160 Robert LEE b:circa 1543; M:Lucy PIGGOTT; d:circa 1616.
161 Lucy PIGGOTT b:circa 1543;
180 William BREWSTER b:circa 1534, Scrooby, Nottingham, England; M: Mary
SMYTHE; d:1590, Scrooby, Nottingham, England.
181 Mary SMYTHE b:circa 1535, Scrooby, Nottingham, England; d:circa1567.
182 Thomas WENTWORTH b:circa 1522, , York, England; M:Grace GASCOIGNE;
183 Grace GASCOIGNE b:circa 1532, Lasingcroft, York, England;
GENERATION 9 ----------------
320 Benedict LEE b:circa 1520; M:(before 1543) Elizabeth CHEYNE;
321 Elizabeth CHEYNE b:circa 1520;
GENERATION 10 --------------
640 Robert LEE b:1500; M:(before 1520) Elizabeth ???; 641 Elizabeth ???
b:____;
GENERATION 11 ---------------
1280 Benedict LEE b:circa 1475; M:(before 1500) Elizabeth WOOD;
1281 Elizabeth WOOD b:circa 1475;
GENERATION 12 ---------------
2560 John LEE b:1450; M:(before 1475) Margaret HOCKWELL;
2561 Margaret HOCKWELL b:1450;
GENERATION 13 ---------------
5120 Thomas LEE b:circa 1430; M:(before 1450) Alice ASHTON;
5121 Alice ASHTON b:circa 1430;
GENERATION 14 ---------------
10240 John LEE b:circa 1400; M:(before 1430) Elizabeth FOWELHURST;
10241 Elizabeth FOWELHURST b:circa 1400.
(Source: The Lee’s of Virginia by Paul Nagel.)
END OF CHART
If you or anyone can add, subtract, or change any of the data listed
above please contact me. If anyone has any questions about any of this data
feel free to ask!
Wiley A. Jarrell
15610 Edenvale
Friendswood , Tx 77546
713-482-3671
wjar...@phoenix.net
Editorial Reply:
Wiley,
I came across your post on the Fido net and would like to share some
information with you. We have been trying to solve some of the riddles of the
Lincoln and Taylor genealogies. The ahnehtafel that you posted agrees for the
most part with information we have found and published.
May I point out that the James Taylor (b 1635) who married Frances ____
(according to your chart), Frances’ surname name is known. The name is Frances
Walker. Supposedly, James is the son of immigrant John Taylor, b 1607, and
Elizabeth _____.
This is what we printed in April 1995:
John Taylor = Elizabeth _____
John Taylor, b 10 Aug 1607, in England, d Jan 1652, m Elizabeth. Records in
both Northumber-land and Lancaster Counties, VA., show that he came to America
around 1648, as he is listed in Greer’s Immigration List, 1648. That year,
John Taylor, James Jones, and John Ellis patented 500 acres of land. On 28 Apr
1651 he patented 950 acres and 1400 acres.
Children of immigrant John Taylor and wife Elizabeth:
1. Richard Taylor, b 1625, England.
2. John Taylor 2, b 1627, England.
3. Robert Taylor, b 1630, England.
4. William Taylor, b 1632-4 or 1638, England.
5. James Taylor 1, b 1635, m Frances Walker. His granddaughter, Frances
Taylor, m Ambrose Madison, and was the grandmother of James Madison U.S.
President. Also, his grandson, Zachary Taylor, b 1707, was the grandfather of
Zachary Taylor, b 1784, U.S. President.
6. Thomas Taylor 1, b 1637, England.
7. Elizabeth Taylor, b 1645, came to America in 1648 with her parents, m Simon
Sallard.
8. Richard Taylor, b 1650, Northumberland Co.,VA.
Another interesting fact if that you have Zachary Taylor (b 1707) married to
Elizabeth Lee. I had Elizabeth Lee Jones, carrying the surname of her first
husband. You show her father as:
10 Hancock LEE b:1653, Northumberland Co VA; M:Mary KENDALL; M: (before1709)
Sarah ALLERTON; d:1709. Then:
20 Richard I "The Founder" LEE chr'd 22 Mar 1617/8, England; M:(before1643)
Ann CONSTABLE; d:1 Mar 1663/4, Dividing Creek, Northumberland Co VA; buried
Cobb's Hall Cemetery.
21 Ann CONSTABLE b:circa 1620, England; M: Edmund LISTER.
From The Plantagenet Connection, April 1995:
The Lee family of Virginia has a long family history. In the third maternal
generation from Abraham Lincoln, Nancy Anna Lee married Joseph Hanks, Sr.
Nancy was the daughter of: William Lee 3 and an unknown wife. William 3 was
the son of: William Lee 2 and Dorothy Taylor. William 2 had 230 acres of land
in Essex County, given to him by his brother John, who had inherited it from
their father. Brother John was Major John Lee, b circa 1680, who owned 6,200
acres of land adjoining the land of Zachary Taylor and John Key. John died 5
Oct 1731 and named Zachary Taylor and John Key as guardians of his children,
William, James, and Betty. John and William Lee 2 were the sons of: Col.
William Lee = Alice Felton.
Col. William Lee, b 1646, m Alice, widow of Thomas Felton, who gave her 150
acres of land lying between Surry and Charles City, VA. William was the
founder of King and Queen County, from which New Kent was formed in 1691.
William was Burgess and Justice of King and Queen County until his death in
1703. He owned 6,064 acres of land adjoining that of James Taylor. William
Lee was the son of:
Richard Henry Lee and Anna Constable
Self-styled colonel, Richard Henry Lee was born around 1618, d 1664. He came
to America in 1641 as Secretary of the King’s Privy Council. In 1642, he
received a land grant of 1000 acres called “Indian Springs,” which he claimed
as Headright land for transport of his wife Anna. [Northumberland County, VA.
records.] By 1648, he had patented other large tracts of land in York,
Gloucester, and in upper Norfolk Counties.
Col. Richard Henry Lee was a merchant and trader who owned two ships and
became a wealthy planter. He served as Attorney General of the Virginia colony
in 1643, Secretary of the Colony in 1651, and Burgess of York in 1663. In
1663, Richard returned to England to settle his English estate and arrange for
the education of his children. His will is mentioned in Charles Campbell’s
History of Virginia, page 157. He died in 1664, leaving his wife Anna his
plantations Stratford-on-Potownacke, and Mock Neck; his son, Francis, another
plantation, Paper-Maker’s Neck. His will records six sons living and two
daughters. Children:
1. Henry Lee, b 1643, d 22 Mar 1654, age 11 (Surrey, VA. records. )
2. John Lee, a physician, b 1644?, who claimed 3100 acres of Headright land
in Westmoreland Co., VA. to transport 62 people, one of who was Thomas
Sparrow, 18 Oct 1668.
3. Francis Lee, b circa 1644, never married. Living in 1663.
4. Col. William Lee, b 1646, m Alice Felton.
5. Major Richard Henry Lee 2, b 1645, Gloucester Co., VA., m 1676 to Letitia
Corbin, b 1657, d 6 Oct 1706, d/o Henry and Alice Eltonhead Corbin.
6. Hancock Lee, d 1729, m Sarah Allerton.
7. Charles Lee (iving in 1663).
8. Elizabeth Lee (living in 1663).
9. Anna Lee (living in 1663).
(Source: The Family of Lee, Rev. Frederick George Lee. Vicar of All
Saints’ , Lambeth, England; Pub. by Mitchell and Hughes, London, 1884.)
There is confusion in the Richard Henry Lee line. Evidently, his father was
Robert Lee, a knight, who married Lucy Pigott, d/o Thomas Pigott. Robert was
the son and heir of Benedict Lee, born at Helsthorpe 15 June 1543/5. Robert
was knighted, and died in Essex, 20 Aug 1616. His noncupative will was dated
15 Aug 1616. Robert married Lucy, 2nd daughter of Thomas Piggot. (Source:The
Family of Lee, Rev. Frederick George Lee. Vicar of All Saints’, Lambeth,
England; Pub. by Mitchell and Hughes, London, 1884.)
There are interesting parallels as well as some contradictions in the
information you provide. In your chart you have:
GENERATION 8 ----------------
182 Thomas WENTWORTH b:circa 1522, , York, England; M:Grace GASCOIGNE;
183 Grace GASCOIGNE b:circa 1532, Lasingcroft, York, England.
The Gascoignes descend from royalty. Also, the Constable family has
Plantagenet connections. More work needs to be done to trace Lincoln’s
pedigree to the Plantagenets. - KHF
Kenneth Harper Finton
Editor/ Publisher
THE PLANTAGENET CONNECTION
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PO Box 1401 Arvada, CO 80001 USA
Voice: 303-420-4888 Fax: 303-420-4845 e-mail: K...@AOL.com
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[Films ... Representation ... Publishing ... Marketing]
Nathaniel Taylor
Taylors (James Taylor, John Taylor of Lancaster Co., etc.) from either the
protestant martyr Dr. Rowland Taylor, or from the Shadockhurst, Kent
Taylors (and from the fictitious minstrel Taillefer), please be advised
that ALL such lines are FALSE.
Will post more later in the weekend, after the Harvard-Yale game.
Nat Taylor
Cristopher Nash
Thanks Nat. I was perhaps overly restrained in my own shout on this score
- having calculated precisely you'd be not far behind. (I hadn't reckoned
on the obvious pre-game delays.)
I ought to add that the occasional identification of Edward Taylor "of
Brigge House, Gent." as both Edward Taylor of Middletown, (New) Jersey
(cattlemark 1678) and as brother of the Matthew of Shadockhurst previously
mentioned are altogether wrong.
The latter claim was patently so, but I confess to having done substantial
research in records at the Borthwick before I could establish that the
former wasn't conceivably correct, since I'd found a contemporaneous Edward
Taylor of Brighouse (Yorks), son of leading Quaker Thomas Taylor (and hence
carrying an air of credibility). Archival evidence of this Edward's
continued presence and death in Yorks and total mismatch of his children
with those of the E.T. of Middletown (East Jersey) wound things up.
I need to say that I've not managed to trace the movements of the E.T. of
Burlington [West Jersey]), and he may indeed have returned to England. But
he fails to show up in the East Jersey Quaker Monthly Meetings, thus
dispelling one of the few justifications for his serious consideration.
And the claim (made by Christina Taylor Bass and Frank Nelson Bass,
_Genealogy Taylor-Snow_, 1935) concerning Edward "of Brigge House, Gent."
was specifically that he was the Edward Taylor of Middletown (East Jersey),
and this is wrong for the reasons I've given.
This is all of course without prejudice to Virginia claims, but I feel at
ease saying that I'd be extremely doubtful about a Shadockhurst connection,
at least on the merits of the published bumph I've seen, and look forward
to your details!
Cris
Nathaniel Taylor
>To those who have posted lines purporting to show descent of Virginia
>Taylors (James Taylor, John Taylor of Lancaster Co., etc.) from either the
>protestant martyr Dr. Rowland Taylor, or from the Shadockhurst, Kent
>Taylors (and from the fictitious minstrel Taillefer), please be advised
>that ALL such lines are FALSE.
>
>Will post more later in the weekend, after the Harvard-Yale game.
I'd like to go on for a bit, as I threatened to yesterday, about these
alleged Taylor origins.
Ms. Bass said in one post that "The ancestry of James [Taylor, ancestor of
President Zachary] has 3 possible lines (sets of parents) - Rowland Taylor
is one." The second, she said, is "through Matthew Taylor"--essentially
the Shadockhurst line, which goes back, allegedly, to the minstrel
"Taillefer." While Ms. Bass didn't specify the third possibility (what is
it?), these two each need to be addressed separately, not least because
they've each been postulated for more than one American Taylor line.
I. "Taillefer" and Shadockhurst line
A descent of some modern Taylors from "Taillefer" (fictionalized Norman
minstrel/knight placed at the Battle of Hastings in the Norman poet Wace's
fictionalized epic _Roman de Rou_) appears in the 1838 edition of Burke's
_Genealogical and Heraldic History of the Commoners of Great Britain and
Ireland_ (4:237-241) detailing a Taylor family originally from
Shadockhurst, Kent, whose representative, Major Joseph Pringle Taylor of
Pennington, Hampshire, had received a grant of arms from the College of
Heralds in 1823, registering that descent to himself (see Thomas Woodcock
and John Martin Robinson, _The Oxford Guide to Heraldry_ [Oxford, 1988],
108).
The lineage deriving the Kentish Taylors (who are attested in late
sixteenth- and early seventeenth-century visitation pedigrees) from the
Norman 'Taillefer' and an intervening landholder named 'Talefer' certainly
predated Burke. One distant relative of mine noted that she copied this
Kentish Taylor lineage out of a manuscript in the British Museum by
Kentish antiquarian Edward Hasted (1732-1812). It is probably BL MS Add.
5520, a folio volume "of pedigrees of diverse families within the county
of Kent" (to quote the handwritten 19th-century MS catalogue) owned by
(and partially in the hand of) Mr. Hasted, in which is found "a pedigree
of Taylor of Shadoxhurst and Maidstone (including Hall) from one in the
possession of the late Rev. Joseph Milner of Preston Hall, Aylesford," at
f. 96. I was not able to see this MS when I was in London in July,
because it had been sent out for reproduction. I would not be surprised
if the "Taillefer" link to the Kent pedigree can be traced back through
Hasted's source, Rev. Joseph Milner (1744-1797). Any Londoner reading
this would do me a great favor by looking it up sometime!
Major Joseph Pringle Taylor was noted by Woodcock and Robinson as being
one of the few men to receive British grants of arms in the nineteenth
century which recognized descent through Americans. His paternal line
derived from Edward Taylor of Middletown, New Jersey, allegedly a member
of the Shadockhurst Taylor family. The Kent / "Taillefer" lineage, plus
the American descendants of the New Jersey family, are treated in Elisha
Taylor, _Genealogy of Judge John Taylor and his Descendants_ (Detroit,
1886) (as well as the book Cris Nash refers to, Christina Taylor Bass and
Frank Nelson Bass, _Genealogy Taylor-Snow_ [1935], which I haven't seen).
Despite the recognition of Major Joseph Pringle Taylor's pedigree by the
College of Arms in 1823, the link between the New Jersey Taylors and the
armigerous Kent family of the sixteenth-century Visitation pedigrees is,
Cris Nash reminds us, apparently false.
As for links of any of the Virginia Taylor families to the Shadockhurst
line, I can only say that no shred of evidence for it has ever come to my
attention. Ms. Bass' account of the Kent theory of the ancestry of James
Taylor shows "Matthew, the 2nd son [of John and Elizabeth (Chute) Taylor
of Shadockhurst], b abt 1555, and if Burke be correct the ancestor of the
family which settled in America." However there seems no room to infer
Virginians in Burke's account of this man and his family (op. cit.
4:239-40). Perhaps there is another 'Burke' which does support this
alleged Virginia connection?.
II. Dr. Rowland Taylor, Protestant Martyr
I first found the descent of many different Virginia Taylor families from
the Protestant Rowland Taylor, rector of Hadleigh, Suffolk (+1555) in
print in _From Log Cabins to the White House: a History of the Taylor
Family_ by Mary Taylor Brewer (Wooton, Kentucky, 1985). Brewer cites as
sources John Foxe's _Book of Martyrs_ (a.k.a. Acts and Monuments, first
pub. in English 1563; for the best ed. of which the 8-vol. version, 4th
rev. ed. [1877] of the Religious Tract Society serves well: Taylor's
martyrdom is reprinted in full [with some notes], 6:676-703) and William
James Brown, _The Life of Rowland Taylor_ (London: Epworth Press, 1959:
Brown was Dr. Taylor's distant successor as rector of Hadleigh at that
time). I have examined both works and neither gives much useful
information on Taylor's family. Brown was interested in descendants of
Rowland Taylor, but knew little. He did speculate about the relationship
between Rowland and Jeremy Taylor (1613-1667), Bishop of Down, Conner and
Dromore, but doubted the veracity of the link and notes that documents
supporting it (including a pedigree) had been in the possession of
Jeremy's Irish descendants but had been burned in the early nineteenth
century.
And although Brown knew the statement of the botanist William Turner, Dean
of Wells (+1568) that Rowland Taylor had been born at Rothbury,
Northumberland, Brown was not aware of any specific parentage or baptismal
record for him; nor of the idea that Rowland's wife was a Tyndale; nor
does he provide any baptismal or marriage dates for Rowland's son Thomas
Taylor (the young son mentioned dramatically in Foxe's tale of his
execution) who allegedly, according to data posted here and also included
(without reference) in Brewer's book, had a family at Hadleigh (and
perhaps another family at Cambridge, resulting in the alleged descent to
Bishop Jeremy Taylor).
It looks, from what's been circulated, as if there has since been some
fruitful research into Rowland Taylor's origins and descendants using
parish registers at Rothbury and Hadleigh (even though I find it odd that
the rector of Hadleigh himself should not have made use of his own
registers if they contained information on Rowland's son Thomas and his
family). If so, who did this original research and where has this data
been published? I have not seen it in any form in which it can be
thoroughly assessed.
Whatever may become known about Rowland Taylor's ancestors and descendants
will no doubt be fascinating, but does it connect definitively to any of
the early Virginia Taylors? I will repeat that I've not seen a single
element of a compelling argument for any specific identity between a
Virginia Taylor and a specific English Taylor family. The data supplied
in recent posts suggests a breakdown in specificity of vital data
(baptisms, etc.) in the crucial generations linking immigrants with
specific English families. In the absence of such data, it is the
reponsibility of those who put forward such a hypothesis to faithfully
reproduce any argument for the identity that may be found: it is not the
responsibility of others to 'disprove' the filiations.
Addendum: on the assumption of interrelationship among various Virginia Taylors
I should just add a final note of concern about the book by Ms. Brewer,
from which some data seems to have made it into some of the recent posts
(for example Kenneth Harper Finton's post). It alleges that many
different Virginia Taylor lines can be traced to the John Taylor whose
estate was probated in 1654 in Lancaster County, Virginia (the Northern
Neck). There is no evidence to support the idea that all the individuals
Brewer lists (and Finton after her) are his children. The estate records
name as his heirs only the son Richard (who died, childless, before 22 May
1669) and the daughter Elizabeth Sallard. The temptation to clump the
various other Virginia Taylor families together with this one, or under
any other single-family umbrella, has to be avoided. The mortality rate
in the Chesepeake and Virginia colonies was so much higher than in New
England in these crucial decades that the likelihood that persons of the
same name in subsequent generations were related is relatively much
smaller than in New England. See on this subject Henry Gemmerey,
"Emigration from the British Isles to the New World, 1630-1700:
Inferences from Colonial Populations," _Research in Economic History_ 5
(1980), 179-232; and also James P. Horn, "Moving on in the New World:
migration and out-migration in the seventeenth-century Chesepeake", in
_Migration and Society in Early Modern England_, ed. Peter Clark & David
Souden (London, 1987), 172-212.
Nat Taylor
Nathaniel Taylor
>A descent of some modern Taylors from "Taillefer" (fictionalized Norman
>minstrel/knight placed at the Battle of Hastings in the Norman poet Wace's
>fictionalized epic _Roman de Rou_) appears in the 1838 edition of Burke's
>_Genealogical and Heraldic History of the Commoners of Great Britain and
>Ireland_ (4:237-241) detailing a Taylor family originally from
>Shadockhurst, Kent, whose representative, Major Joseph Pringle Taylor of
>Pennington, Hampshire, had received a grant of arms from the College of
>Heralds in 1823, registering that descent to himself (see Thomas Woodcock
>and John Martin Robinson, _The Oxford Guide to Heraldry_ [Oxford, 1988],
>108).
^^^
That should be page 166 of Woodcock and Robinson.
Nat Taylor
Cristopher Nash
>line,...
[ETC]
I feel I ought to add that the Elisha Taylor _Genealogy of Judge John
Taylor and his Descendants_ -- one of the sources for the Bass-Bass book --
is not simply unreliable but erroneous at the sole point where it seeks to
show a _reason_ for considering a Shadockhurst, Kent connection with the
Middletown, New Jersey line of Taylors. This is where Elisha Taylor --
_and_ the subsequent Asher Taylor account, as edited by Hiram E Deats in
_The Jerseyman_, 1902 -- claim that Matthew Taylor, declared to be a son
of John Taylor of Shadockhurst (d.1683), bequeathed in his will of 1687
(brought to probate, NY, 1688) a mourning ring to his brother Edward "of
Brigge House, York Co., residing in London". This 'brother Edward' is
claimed by the Taylor historians to be the Edward of Middletown, East
Jersey. The problem is that (a) there's clear evidence of the latter
Edward as having been living continuously in Middletown/Shrewsbury/Colts
Neck, NJ, since 1678, and (b) the will of Matthew Taylor shows Matthew
leaving his ring to his 'brother _Samuel_ Taylor, residing in London', and
then to his son George; no Edward Taylor appears anywhere in the will. (I
note that Stillwell spotted this too.)
There is indeed a fainthearted attempt on Asher Taylor/Hiram Deats to
suggest that the Shadockhurst Taylors have some relationship with a series
of 'Taillefers'/'Taylefers', simply by asserting that a 'No. 2. Hanger
Taylefer' [purported to be a descendent of a 'Baron Taillefer (said to be
from a noble Italian Family) who accompanied William the Conqueror'] 'held
lands in the tenure of Ospringe, County Kent, temp. Henry 3d, and from him
descended [] No. 3. John Taylor, of the Homestall, in Shadochurst, County
Kent; living temp. Edw 3d, 1330-1378' (_The Jerseyman_, Vol 8, No. 1, 1902,
pp 4-6). I think it'd silly to waste more of people's time here with any
discussion of that concoction; I mention it simply to convey a whiff of the
quality of the Shadockhurst Taylor material.
I do want to point out, though, that this isn't the end of the story so far
as Virginia is concerned. The same article says that John Taylor of
Shadockhurst (d. 1683) had a sister 'Martha, who married William Yonge, to
whom his father bequeathes his estates in Virginia; he was living in 1678'
(p 6). While I've still seen no clear evidence that Matthew is related to
the Taylors of Shadockhurst, I can't in fairness exclude the possibility of
a Shadockhurst/Virginia link, since I've not looked into this putative
Taylor/Yonge connection either in Kent or in Virginia.
There is also, among these maddening Taylor discussions of the turn of the
century, a nagging persistence in connecting Matthew Taylor (above - a
resident of New York) with the Carteret proprietorship in East Jersey, and
via Carteret with the Scotts of Scott Hall, a family that, I take it,
friends here have been reviewing as possible ancestors of Scotts of
Virginia. I apologize to Adrian, Ray and others for not having kept up
with that thread, and perhaps this is now a non-issue. I've the strong
sense that the continual linking of Matthew Taylor with the Carteret
holdings in East Jersey * (a favorite fallback fantasy among old and
desperate New Jersey family historians) is a balloon waiting to burst - and
its relevance to Virginia developments is shady in any case. But I'd feel
guilty not having mentioned the business _because_ I'm too ignorant of the
matter to dismiss it! P.S. It doesn't mean I'm not interested.
Cris
_________________________
* e.g. 'A deed dated Nov. 19, 1681, conveys from certain Indians to Lady
Carteret, in trust for Matthew Taylor of New York and others a large tract
of land, being 4 miles in depth on both sides of the North Branch of the
Raritan River at the junction of the North and South branches' (p 6). An
(apparently) early memorandum or 'Bill in Chancery' of the 'deed' is
quoted; a Matthew Taylor is given as one of four who 'paid' 'goods' on
behalf of 'the Lady Proprietrix' to four named Indians.
Nathaniel Taylor
en...@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Cristopher Nash) wrote:
>There is indeed a fainthearted attempt on Asher Taylor/Hiram Deats to
>suggest that the Shadockhurst Taylors have some relationship with a series
>of 'Taillefers'/'Taylefers', simply by asserting that a 'No. 2. Hanger
>Taylefer' [purported to be a descendent of a 'Baron Taillefer (said to be
>from a noble Italian Family) who accompanied William the Conqueror'] 'held
>lands in the tenure of Ospringe, County Kent, temp. Henry 3d, and from him
>descended [] No. 3. John Taylor, of the Homestall, in Shadochurst, County
>Kent; living temp. Edw 3d, 1330-1378' (_The Jerseyman_, Vol 8, No. 1, 1902,
>pp 4-6). I think it'd silly to waste more of people's time here with any
>discussion of that concoction; I mention it simply to convey a whiff of the
>quality of the Shadockhurst Taylor material.
Yes. This is precisely what's in the 1838 Burke.
>I do want to point out, though, that this isn't the end of the story so far
>as Virginia is concerned. The same article says that John Taylor of
>Shadockhurst (d. 1683) had a sister 'Martha, who married William Yonge, to
>whom his father bequeathes his estates in Virginia; he was living in 1678'
>(p 6). While I've still seen no clear evidence that Matthew is related to
>the Taylors of Shadockhurst, I can't in fairness exclude the possibility of
>a Shadockhurst/Virginia link, since I've not looked into this putative
>Taylor/Yonge connection either in Kent or in Virginia.
This is interesting; I hadn't noticed it before. It is a garbled version
of the account in Burke's _Commoners_ (1838 ed.), 4:240, which shows
Martha, sister of John Taylor (1611-1683) of Shadockhurst, as married to a
"William Yonge of Midhurst, Sussex, who died in 1651, leaving his estates
in Virginia to his second son, William, who was alive in 1678." The
question is, can the Virginia estates of William Yonge of Midhurst, Sussex
(+1651) be concretely identified (headright grants, etc.)? Did the son
William (who may or may not have been a son of this Mary Taylor) live in
Virginia and can his descendants be identified? (For that matter did
William Yonge, senior (husband of Mary Taylor) and his wife live in
Virginia at all or was he just an absentee grantee?) Were there any
Taylors with whom these Yonges can be shown to have interacted closely in
Virginia? Only if these questions can be answered concretely in the
affirmative would I begin to build the case of a specific Virginia Taylor
family coming from the Shadockhurst stock. But it's worth looking into.
Nat Taylor
Nathaniel Taylor
>It is a garbled version
>of the account in Burke's _Commoners_ (1838 ed.), 4:240, which shows
>Martha, sister of John Taylor (1611-1683) of Shadockhurst, as married to a
>"William Yonge of Midhurst, Sussex, who died in 1651, leaving his estates
>in Virginia to his second son, William, who was alive in 1678." The
>question is, can the Virginia estates of William Yonge of Midhurst, Sussex
>(+1651) be concretely identified (headright grants, etc.)? Did the son
>William (who may or may not have been a son of this Mary Taylor) live in
^^^^
uh, Martha.
>Virginia and can his descendants be identified? (For that matter did
>William Yonge, senior (husband of Mary Taylor)...
^^^^
uh.
Nat Taylor
ray montgomery
Chris
thank you
RAY
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ray montgomery
Cristopher Nash
>In article <l03102801b27f7259f3d0@[137.205.97.11]>,
>en...@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Cristopher Nash) wrote:
>
>>There is indeed a fainthearted attempt on Asher Taylor/Hiram Deats to
>>suggest that the Shadockhurst Taylors have some relationship with a series
>>of 'Taillefers'/'Taylefers', simply by asserting that a 'No. 2. Hanger
>>Taylefer' [purported to be a descendent of a 'Baron Taillefer (said to be
>>from a noble Italian Family) who accompanied William the Conqueror'] 'held
>>lands in the tenure of Ospringe, County Kent, temp. Henry 3d, and from him
>>descended [] No. 3. John Taylor, of the Homestall, in Shadochurst, County
>>Kent; living temp. Edw 3d, 1330-1378' (_The Jerseyman_, Vol 8, No. 1, 1902,
>>pp 4-6). I think it'd silly to waste more of people's time here with any
>>discussion of that concoction; I mention it simply to convey a whiff of the
>>quality of the Shadockhurst Taylor material.
>
>Yes. This is precisely what's in the 1838 Burke.
>
>>I do want to point out, though, that this isn't the end of the story so far
>>as Virginia is concerned. The same article says that John Taylor of
>>Shadockhurst (d. 1683) had a sister 'Martha, who married William Yonge, to
>>whom his father bequeathes his estates in Virginia; he was living in 1678'
>>(p 6). While I've still seen no clear evidence that Matthew is related to
>>the Taylors of Shadockhurst, I can't in fairness exclude the possibility of
>>a Shadockhurst/Virginia link, since I've not looked into this putative
>>Taylor/Yonge connection either in Kent or in Virginia.
>
>This is interesting; I hadn't noticed it before. It is a garbled version
>of the account in Burke's _Commoners_ (1838 ed.), 4:240, which shows
>Martha, sister of John Taylor (1611-1683) of Shadockhurst, as married to a
>"William Yonge of Midhurst, Sussex, who died in 1651, leaving his estates
>in Virginia to his second son, William, who was alive in 1678." The
>question is, can the Virginia estates of William Yonge of Midhurst, Sussex
>(+1651) be concretely identified (headright grants, etc.)? Did the son
>William (who may or may not have been a son of this Mary Taylor) live in
>Virginia and can his descendants be identified? (For that matter did
>William Yonge, senior (husband of Mary Taylor) and his wife live in
>Virginia at all or was he just an absentee grantee?) Were there any
>Taylors with whom these Yonges can be shown to have interacted closely in
>Virginia? Only if these questions can be answered concretely in the
>affirmative would I begin to build the case of a specific Virginia Taylor
>family coming from the Shadockhurst stock. But it's worth looking into.
>
>Nat Taylor
Nat -- Can we leave it to Virginia-focused folkus to do that? Wouldn't be
surprised if Karon Bosze on CIS had Yonge stuff on the tip of her
consciousness (she's like that). Oops - forgive me, I think it's a stretch
of country you yourself ransacked a number of years ago....
Cris
blitzkr...@gmail.com
This is my lineage and rare to be traced to 1630 arrival in Massachusetts.
Most I've seen traced back to Va.
Very distant cousins I'm sure.
From what I can assemble.
Dr Rowland Taylor's family left for Ireland or Scotland the night of his burning at the stake.
His brother Dr John Taylor who was in very poor health remained as he was also obligated by his occupation to the service of the throNE
They are traced to Taylefers of shadochrust
johntay...@gmail.com
> information on any of the above families.
> My access to records that would be old enough is quite
> limited, even more so if the records are in
> England since I live in Virginia.
>
I think that you were looking for some kind of information but I am not sure what it was, perhaps I can help ?
Tracing genealogy is a very big can of worms.
Best Wishes.
John Taylor
JOHNTAY...@GMAIL.COM
England
carrieann...@gmail.com
iv been doing my family tree and these names are in my tree, im happy for you to visit my tree.
on ancestry
carrie ANstey
