Curry royal ancestry?
Erica N.
Hello,
I recently received a gedcom containing the
following royal ancestry for the Curry family of PA.
Can anyone tell me if it's correct? No sources were
given for these connections.
Thank you, Erica
1. King Henry TUDOR VII of England (1456 England-1509
England), m. Queen Elizabeth (of York) PLANTAGENET
(1465 England-1502 England)
2. Princess Mary TUDOR of England (1495 England-1533
England), m. Duke Charles BRANDON of Suffolk 1st
(1484-1545 England)
3. Eleanor BRANDON (1519-1547 England), m. Earl Henry
de CLIFFORD of Cumberland 2nd (1517-1568 England)
4. Margaret de CLIFFORD (-1596), m. Earl Henry STANLEY
of derby 4th (1531-1593)
5. William STANLEY (1561-1642), m. Elizabeth de VERE
(1575-1627 England)
6. Ann STANLEY, Sister to James Stanley, 7th Earl of
derby (1600 England-1657), m. Robert NISBIT (1578-1654
Holland)
7. Robert CURRY (1647 Scotland-PA), m. Beatrix
CAMPBELL (1658 Scotland-)
8. William CURRY (1681 Scotland-1746 PA), m. Agnes
NESBIT (1685 Scotland-PA)
9. William CURRY (1714 PA-1791 VA), m. Mary MCAFFEE
(1718 VA-)
10. John CURRY (1757-1823 KY), m. Margaret ADAMS (1749
VA-)
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Sutliff
Without commenting on the validity of the line, I am wondering if a
generation may have been omitted between 6 and 7. If not, that link would
seem very problematic.
I show Anne, daughter of William, 6th Earl of Derby and sister of James 7th
Earl of Derby, married to (1) Sir Henry Portman of Orchard, Somerset and (2)
Sir Robert Kerr, Earl of Ancram. Not aware of a Nesbit marriage.
Henry Sutliff
"Erica N." <gene...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2002011007534...@web14610.mail.yahoo.com...
Erica N.
Hello,
I made a mistake in my last post by mixing up
generations seven and nine. Sorry for any confusion.
The corrected lineage is below.
Thank you, Erica
1. King Henry TUDOR VII of England (1456 England-1509
England), m. Queen Elizabeth (of York) PLANTAGENET
(1465 England-1502 England)
2. Princess Mary TUDOR of England (1495 England-1533
England), m. Duke Charles BRANDON of Suffolk 1st
(1484-1545 England)
3. Eleanor BRANDON (1519-1547 England), m. Earl Henry
de CLIFFORD of Cumberland 2nd (1517-1568 England)
4. Margaret de CLIFFORD (-1596), m. Earl Henry STANLEY
of derby 4th (1531-1593)
5. William STANLEY (1561-1642), m. Elizabeth de VERE
(1575-1627 England)
6. Ann STANLEY, Sister to James Stanley, 7th Earl of
derby (1600 England-1657), m. Robert NISBIT (1578-1654
Holland)
7. Agnes NESBIT (1613 Scotland-? Lancaster, PA) m.
William CURRY (1614 Scotland-?)
8. Robert CURRY (1647 Scotland-? Lancaster, PA) m.
Beatrix Campbell (1658 Edinburgh, Scotland-?)
9. William CURRY (1681 Scotland-1746 PA), m. Agnes
NESBIT (1685 Scotland-PA)
10. William CURRY (1714 PA-1791 VA), m. Mary MCAFFEE
(1718 VA-)
11. John CURRY (1757-1823 KY), m. Margaret ADAMS (1749
cbe...@paradise.net.nz
I'm sorry to say that there is a bit of a problem with the identity of Robert Nisbet.
As Henry Sutliffe has explained Anne Stanley's second husband was Sir Robert
Kerr, 1st earl of Ancram. He was also Lord Kerr of Nisbet, Langnewtoun and
Dolphinstoun. He has the same dates of birth and death as you have supplied, but
his progeny all had the surname of Kerr, not Nisbet. Burke's Peerage and
Baronetage 106th ed.lists four children - Charles, Stanley, Vere (female) and
Elizabeth, but no Agnes.
Chronologically there is a problem in that the date of birth for Agnes Nisbet (1613)
was at a time when Anne Stanley was still married to her first husband, Sir Henry
Portman, who did not die until Feb 1623/24.
Another worrying feature about this lineage is that it is socially inconsistent that
Anne, an earl's daughter, would have an untitled husband.
I suggest that you scrutinise the source of your information very closely.
Cheers
Rosie
On 10 Jan 2002 at 0:24, Erica N. wrote:
Date forwarded: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 01:24:00 -0700
Date sent: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 00:24:08 -0800 (PST)
From: "Erica N." <gene...@yahoo.com>
Subject: Curry royal ancestry? (CORRECTION)
To: GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com
Forwarded by: GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com
_Hines_TD@aya.yale.edu D. Spencer Hines
window into just how charlatans went about doctoring a pedigree.
Change the name Kerr to "Nisbet" ("It's another one of his titles, Lord
Kerr of Nisbet. Some of the children took that name.") [N.B. We
actually have "Nesbit" and "Nisbit" infra], invent a daughter
"Agnes" ---- and you're off to the races.
Can't you just see some Victorian-Edwardian charlatan-fraud, working in
his gas-lit study, manufacturing these pedigrees late at night, with a
quill pen?
Exitus Acta Probat.
"Much have I travelled in the realms of gold, And many goodly states and
kingdoms seen; Round many western islands have I been, Which bards in
fealty to Apollo hold." -- John Keats [1795-1821] -- Poems [1817] -- "On
First Looking Into Chapman's Homer"
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing." -- Attributed to Edmund Burke [1729-1797]
All replies to the newsgroup please. Thank you kindly.
All original material contained herein is copyright and property of the
author. It may be quoted only in discussions on this forum and with an
attribution to the author, unless permission is otherwise expressly
given, in writing.
----------
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor
<cbe...@paradise.net.nz> wrote in message
news:3C3E161F.7167.9EBD2B@localhost...
Arthur Murata
--- "Erica N." <gene...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Jan. 9, 2002
> Hello,
> I recently received a gedcom containing the
> following royal ancestry for the Curry family of PA.
> Can anyone tell me if it's correct? No sources were
> given for these connections.
> Thank you, Erica
>
>
> 1. King Henry TUDOR VII of England (1456 England-1509
> England), m. Queen Elizabeth (of York) PLANTAGENET
> (1465 England-1502 England)
>
> 2. Princess Mary TUDOR of England (1495 England-1533
> England), m. Duke Charles BRANDON of Suffolk 1st
> (1484-1545 England)
>
> 3. Eleanor BRANDON (1519-1547 England), m. Earl Henry
> de CLIFFORD of Cumberland 2nd (1517-1568 England)
>
> 4. Margaret de CLIFFORD (-1596), m. Earl Henry STANLEY
> of derby 4th (1531-1593)
>
> 5. William STANLEY (1561-1642), m. Elizabeth de VERE
> (1575-1627 England)
>
> 6. Ann STANLEY, Sister to James Stanley, 7th Earl of
> derby (1600 England-1657), m. Robert NISBIT (1578-1654
> Holland)
>
to his son? Where did the "Curry" come from? It is at this
link where I would want to closely examine what happened
and why. Best, Bronwen Edwards
Arthur Murata
the Nesbit marriage that was brought up by another poster
remains. Do you know of any documentation that the marriage
or liaison occurred? Best, Bronwen Edwards
--- "Erica N." <gene...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Erica N.
it definitly looked pretty fanciful to me. Thanks
everyone!
erica
<D._Spencer...@aya.yale.edu> wrote:
> This seems to be a quasi-semi-artful genealogical
> forgery and is a good
> window into just how charlatans went about doctoring
> a pedigree.
>
> Can't you just see some Victorian-Edwardian
> charlatan-fraud, working in
> his gas-lit study, manufacturing these pedigrees
> late at night, with a
> quill pen?
Erica N.
were listed. This tree seems to be floating around a
few places online (like ancestry.com) so it appears
that quite a few people have accepted it. I don't know
if I should contact the person who sent it to me or
the many people who have it in their family trees on
ancestry, or if theres any ettiquette for doing so.
They might be disappointed to learn the truth.
Thanks again everyone, Erica
--- Arthur Murata <lostc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> The corrected line "flows" better now, but the
> question of
> the Nesbit marriage that was brought up by another
> poster
> remains. Do you know of any documentation that the
> marriage
> or liaison occurred? Best, Bronwen Edwards
_Hines_TD@aya.yale.edu D. Spencer Hines
Into each life a little pain and disappointment must flow ---- and
Reality.
It Builds Character.
Deus Vult.
"Much have I travelled in the realms of gold, And many goodly states and
kingdoms seen; Round many western islands have I been, Which bards in
fealty to Apollo hold." -- John Keats [1795-1821] -- Poems [1817] -- "On
First Looking Into Chapman's Homer"
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing." -- Attributed to Edmund Burke [1729-1797]
All replies to the newsgroup please. Thank you kindly.
All original material contained herein is copyright and property of the
author. It may be quoted only in discussions on this forum and with an
attribution to the author, unless permission is otherwise expressly
given, in writing.
----------
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor
"Erica N." <gene...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2002011023421...@web14602.mail.yahoo.com...
Nathaniel Taylor
jmel...@pobox.com wrote:
>On 10 Jan 2002 00:53:34 -0700, gene...@yahoo.com (Erica N.) wrote:
>
>> I recently received a gedcom containing the
>>following royal ancestry for the Curry family of PA ...
>>
>>1. King Henry VII of England ...
>>
>Are there any proven descents of 17th century colonists (that is, ones
>with descendants today) from Henry VII? Seems to me that two hundred
>years isn't enough time for a lineage to descend from royalty all the
>way to commoner ...
There is none in Roberts' _RD500_, but a list of false ones would include
the absurdly improbable ancestry for Matthew Howard of Maryland worked
into a sort of historical novel by James E. Moss.
Nat Taylor
His Jadedness
>
>Are there any proven descents of 17th century colonists (that is, ones
>with descendants today) from Henry VII? Seems to me that two hundred
>years isn't enough time for a lineage to descend from royalty all the
>way to commoner ...
Two hundred years is more than enough time. Perfect examples are Peter and Zara
Phillips. Their grandmother is a queen, their monther is a princess, and they
are commoners as their children will be unless they marry above their station.
Thus Princess Anne's line has gone from royalty to commoner in one generation.
_Hines_TD@aya.yale.edu D. Spencer Hines
Word also has it that Princess Anne now realises that she screwed the
pooch on this matter and left her children without any sort of title.
She is a genuinely good and "nice" person from what one hears ----
"Democratic Impulses" and so forth ---- but also the dumbest of the
British Royals, the dimmest bulb on the Christmas tree ---- and even
perhaps less intelligent than the horses she loves to ride.
Comments?
Deus Vult.
"Much have I travelled in the realms of gold, And many goodly states and
kingdoms seen; Round many western islands have I been, Which bards in
fealty to Apollo hold." -- John Keats [1795-1821] -- Poems [1817] -- "On
First Looking Into Chapman's Homer"
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing." -- Attributed to Edmund Burke [1729-1797]
All replies to the newsgroup please. Thank you kindly.
All original material contained herein is copyright and property of the
author. It may be quoted only in discussions on this forum and with an
attribution to the author, unless permission is otherwise expressly
given, in writing.
----------
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor
"His Jadedness" <agh...@aol.comte.jade> wrote in message
news:20020111234237...@mb-ft.aol.com...
Blair Southerden
dumb!
I was privileged to hear her speak about 10 years ago, at a dinner for
(mainly) very senior police officers from UK and overseas. She spoke
without notes for about 20 minutes in a very informed, authorative and
challenging manner. Her reception from an audience of what would normally
be great sceptics was little short of rapturous. Clearly they understood
her points and did not consider her dumb.
It seems a shame that messages on this list, which can have some very
informed comment, get clouded by inaccurate codswallop such as this.
Blair
> ______________________________
_Hines_TD@aya.yale.edu D. Spencer Hines
Many Brits with whom I've spoken and not a few writers think she is as
dumb as dishwater.
All seem to agree she has a good heart.
Deus Vult.
"Much have I travelled in the realms of gold, And many goodly states and
kingdoms seen; Round many western islands have I been, Which bards in
fealty to Apollo hold." -- John Keats [1795-1821] -- Poems [1817] -- "On
First Looking Into Chapman's Homer"
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing." -- Attributed to Edmund Burke [1729-1797]
All replies to the newsgroup please. Thank you kindly.
All original material contained herein is copyright and property of the
author. It may be quoted only in discussions on this forum and with an
attribution to the author, unless permission is otherwise expressly
given, in writing.
----------
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor
"Blair Southerden" <blai...@globalnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:033801c19b62$4f8fa9c0$5ce993c3@iunfd...
| > D. Spencer Hines
Renia
But this is unusual and a modern choice by a modern princess. It will probably
become the norm as the royal family tries to whittle itself down.
Renia
Renia
> Excellent Point!
>
> Word also has it that Princess Anne now realises that she screwed the
> pooch on this matter and left her children without any sort of title.
>
> She is a genuinely good and "nice" person from what one hears ----
> "Democratic Impulses" and so forth ---- but also the dumbest of the
> British Royals, the dimmest bulb on the Christmas tree ---- and even
> perhaps less intelligent than the horses she loves to ride.
>
> Comments?
She's no dummy. Probably the cleverest of the lot. She maintains her royal
dignity as the daughter of The Queen, while allowing her children the
freedoms of modern life. She is perceptive.
Renia
Renia
> Opinions differ markedly on the Princess Royal.
>
> Many Brits with whom I've spoken and not a few writers think she is as
> dumb as dishwater.
>
> All seem to agree she has a good heart.
The phrase you are thinking of is dull as dishwater. More apt.
Renia
Blair Southerden
way.
> ______________________________
William Addams Reitwiesner
>On 10 Jan 2002 00:53:34 -0700, gene...@yahoo.com (Erica N.) wrote:
>
>> Jan. 9, 2002
>>Hello,
>> I recently received a gedcom containing the
>>following royal ancestry for the Curry family of PA.
>>Can anyone tell me if it's correct? No sources were
>>given for these connections.
>> Thank you, Erica
>>
>>
>>1. King Henry TUDOR VII of England (1456 England-1509
>>England), m. Queen Elizabeth (of York) PLANTAGENET
>>(1465 England-1502 England)
>>
>Are there any proven descents of 17th century colonists (that is, ones
>with descendants today) from Henry VII? Seems to me that two hundred
>years isn't enough time for a lineage to descend from royalty all the
>way to commoner ...
In response to your more general question (were there any non-aristocratic
17th century Englishmen or -women who were legitimately descended from
Henry VII), the answer is yes. For examples, see Ruvigny's *The Blood
Royal of Britain* [1903], particularly tables LXXVII, LXXXI, LXXXII, XCV,
XCVI, XCIX, C, CI, and CIV.
William Addams Reitwiesner
wr...@erols.com
Glyn Jones
visit to Newark, a few years a go. He opened a door in the Town Hall and
found her there, alone. He asked if she was enjoying her visit and she
deliberately looked away from him and said that she did not talk to the
press.
Please note that many people in UK are republicans.
Glyn
Glyn Jones FRPS
www.glynphoto.com
Remember Tryweryn
Join the Royal Photographic Society
Join Creative Monochrome
_Hines_TD@aya.yale.edu D. Spencer Hines
Surprising that she did not have at least one retainer with her.
What is the reputation of her husband and kids?
"Much have I travelled in the realms of gold, And many goodly states and
kingdoms seen; Round many western islands have I been, Which bards in
fealty to Apollo hold." -- John Keats [1795-1821] -- Poems [1817] -- "On
First Looking Into Chapman's Homer"
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing." -- Attributed to Edmund Burke [1729-1797]
All replies to the newsgroup please. Thank you kindly.
All original material contained herein is copyright and property of the
author. It may be quoted only in discussions on this forum and with an
attribution to the author, unless permission is otherwise expressly
given, in writing.
----------
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor
"Glyn Jones" <glyn...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:005e01c19c5f$c8c27d60$8cbd01d5@gj...
_Hines_TD@aya.yale.edu D. Spencer Hines
from Henry VII and Elizabeth of York could be a fascinating exercise.
Renia
> Provoking.
>
> Surprising that she did not have at least one retainer with her.
>
> What is the reputation of her husband and kids?
Second husband is quiet so we don't hear much of him. The daughter is openly
living with her boyfriend, had a pierced tongue, and was involved in a fight
to which the police were called out. He is a jockey and there was a spread
about them in Hello recently, which is the pits. I think the son has
recently split with his girlfriend(?).
Renia