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Margaret Norris
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Iolo Griffiths
Jun 1, 2005, 1:51:54 PM6/1/05
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I would be grateful if someone could supply me with the ancestry of Margaret Norris who married Robert Holland. Her father was Alan Norris, but I know nothing else about her.
WJho...@aol.com
Jun 1, 2005, 2:03:24 PM6/1/05
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In a message dated 6/1/05 10:52:03 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
iol...@virgin.net writes:
iol...@virgin.net writes:
Do you have an approximate birthyear, marriage year or death year for her?
Iolo Griffiths
Jun 4, 2005, 10:15:03 AM6/4/05
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Robert Holland was born around 1253 the son of Thurston de Holland of
Upholland, Lancashire. He had also married an Elizabeth de Salmesbury, who
was born around 1256, and he died in 1311. I would therefore think that if
Margaret is his second wife that she would probably be rather younger, so I
would expect a birthdate around 1260.
I suspect that Margaret might be linked to the Norris family of Speke Hall,
Liverpool.
Upholland, Lancashire. He had also married an Elizabeth de Salmesbury, who
was born around 1256, and he died in 1311. I would therefore think that if
Margaret is his second wife that she would probably be rather younger, so I
would expect a birthdate around 1260.
I suspect that Margaret might be linked to the Norris family of Speke Hall,
Liverpool.
Kay Allen
Jun 5, 2005, 8:56:38 PM6/5/05
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Dear Iolo,
I believe that you may have grafted two Robert
Hollands. There may or may not be a connection to
Upholland. Some of the family did go down into Wales.
This Robert was heavily connected to Welsh society. He
had a brother, Dicwn (?Dickon). In
my sources, the father is Trystan, which could be a
corruption of Thurstan.
There is a Norreys of Penllyn family which could have
provided Margaret.
When I become more settled into my new home, I will
consult my notes and try to provide more specifics, as
I also share this line.
Kay Allen AG
Sutliff
Jun 9, 2005, 2:12:54 AM6/9/05
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CP VI: 528 states that Robert de Holand died near 1300 and that his widow
Elizabeth was still alive in 1311. So the suggested marriage to Margaret le
Norreys seems unlikely. You might also check Baines IV:301 and VCH Lancs
IV:92 and VCH Lancs VI:304 for other relevant help.
Elizabeth was still alive in 1311. So the suggested marriage to Margaret le
Norreys seems unlikely. You might also check Baines IV:301 and VCH Lancs
IV:92 and VCH Lancs VI:304 for other relevant help.
Good luck,
Henry Sutliff
""Iolo Griffiths"" <iol...@virgin.net> wrote in message
news:000001c5690f$c8151d20$9468ff3e@ioloathome...
Iolo Griffiths
Jun 9, 2005, 3:30:34 PM6/9/05
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I think you may well be right.
I had found one pedigree on Rootsweb which claimed that the same Robert
Holland was married to both Margaret Norris and Elizabeth de Salmesbury, but
that was the only one, while the others seemed "unaware" of this second
marriage (which should have raised my suspicions). The one married to
Elizabeth was the son of Thurstan de Holland and a Miss Kellett.
The husband of Margaret, according to William Addams Reitwiesner's pedigree
of Bishop Vaughan of London, was the son of a Sir Trystan Holland (which
sounds sufficiently like Thurston to seem possible), but his mother was a
Tangwystl ferch Dafydd ap Gwrgeneu, which seems a very Welsh mother for a
Lancashire man.
At least the Norreys of Penllyn would seem a more likely bride.
I had found one pedigree on Rootsweb which claimed that the same Robert
Holland was married to both Margaret Norris and Elizabeth de Salmesbury, but
that was the only one, while the others seemed "unaware" of this second
marriage (which should have raised my suspicions). The one married to
Elizabeth was the son of Thurstan de Holland and a Miss Kellett.
The husband of Margaret, according to William Addams Reitwiesner's pedigree
of Bishop Vaughan of London, was the son of a Sir Trystan Holland (which
sounds sufficiently like Thurston to seem possible), but his mother was a
Tangwystl ferch Dafydd ap Gwrgeneu, which seems a very Welsh mother for a
Lancashire man.
At least the Norreys of Penllyn would seem a more likely bride.
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