Howard~Origin of the name
Karen Repko
Can anyone tell me with any authority, what the origin of the
surname Howard is.
The big question here is, could the Howard name be derived from the
name Hereward, and does this mean that the names origins are german
(saxon).
I have read the archives, but no authoritive mention is made as to
the actual origin of the Howard name. Does anyone have access to
onomastic and etymology evidence for the Howard name, if so, could you
please help me to understand where this surname came from.
Cheers,
Karen
Rick Eaton
> Can anyone tell me with any authority, what the origin of the
> surname Howard is.
I don't know about the origin, but I can tell you that
Hayward and Howard were different spellings of the same
surname.
Rick Eaton
Voice: 203.453.6261 Fax:203.453.0076
Karen Repko
Hello Rick,
Thank you for your reply, and I was previously aware of the name
usage between Howard and *de* Hayward.
What I am actually trying to ascertain is what name was first used
for the Howards of Norfolk, as I feel that their origin may be found
in the norman-french name of de Hayward, and not from Hereward as some
sources have stated.
Has anyone in the soc.gen.medieval group undertaken any research
into this area of the Howard family in England. Perhaps the answer to
my question can be found in something by Katherine Keats-Rohan, but I
do not have access to any of her books at the present time.
Cheers,
Karen
Kay Allen AG
William Howard, who was a grown man and on the bench in 1293, whose real pedigree is very obscure and doubtful,
and who invariably spelt his name Haward. ...."
Kay Allen AG
Nathaniel Taylor
>> > Can anyone tell me with any authority, what the origin of the
>> > surname Howard is.
Rick Eaton replied:
>> I don't know about the origin, but I can tell you that
>> Hayward and Howard were different spellings of the same
>> surname.
Karen replied:
> Thank you for your reply, and I was previously aware of the name
>usage between Howard and *de* Hayward.
>
> What I am actually trying to ascertain is what name was first used
>for the Howards of Norfolk, as I feel that their origin may be found
>in the norman-french name of de Hayward, and not from Hereward as some
>sources have stated.
This exchange parallels another current one on Braose, and bears
commenting on.
The Oxford _Dictionary of English Surnames_ (3d ed, rev., 1997) gives
several specific early examples of names which have later come to be
spelled 'Howard' (among many other variants). None of the origins shown
in the dictionary is a Norman toponym, so they would never have been
written in the form *de + place-name*, and since 'Hayward' is an
Anglo-Saxon name, it is doubly doubtful that there ever was a
'Norman-French name of de Hayward'.
Several relevant entries may be summarized, all of which appear to be
potential contributors to the modern surname 'Howard' or close homonyms.
First, there are sources of the name 'Howard' which come clearly through
Norman-French, but not as a toponym:
1. 'Howard' (essentially the same as the modern standard spelling) was
in Norman usage at the time, appearing in Domesday book as 'Houardus',
and in the early 12th c. as 'Howardus', 'Owardus', etc., deriving from
an Old Germanic word of form prefix-root for 'high warden' (note that we
have modern English cognates for both word elements in this definition).
2. 'Huard', another distinct attested Norman name of the Conquest
period, deriving from an Old Germanic double-rooted name of form
'Hugi-hard' ('heart-brave', the first root being the root of the common
short name 'Hugh').
Both (1) and (2) appear as Normans in Domesday England, with spelling
variants suggesting either could be the source of later 'Howards'.
Yet the dictionary also shows several distinct Anglo-Saxon words which
also came to be used as confusable homonymous names in the early modern
period:
3. 'Hereward', an Anglo-Saxon compound word, here-weard, meaning 'army
guard' (as in the famous rebel Hereward 'the Wake'). Appears in 16th c.
as 'Harward' (and alleged as origin of name 'Harvard' in another source
I've seen).
4. 'Hayward', also an Anglo-Saxon compound word, hege-weard or
haeg-weard, meaning 'hedge-guard', a sort of cattle-warden. The word
'hayward' was retained in Middle English and modern English for a
similar agricultural office, and appears clearly spelled 'Howard' in
some 17th-c. texts, suggesting possible name confusion. 'Hayward'
continues as a modern surname, but some modern Howards may also
originally have been Haywards, though this does not make it, as Rick
suggested, 'the same surname'.
5. 'Howeherde', from Anglo-Saxon 'eowu-hierde', meaning 'ewe-herd', seen
in the 14th century, possibly also confused or assimilated to 'Howard'.
6. 'Haworth' is the only toponym I find in the dictionary potentially
contributing to the surname spelled 'Howard'; it is Anglo-Saxon-Danish,
found in Yorkshire West Riding. As a surname it was common in the
corrupted form 'Howarth' by the 16th c., conceivably confusable and
contributory to some 'Howard' names. The dictionary cites no usages of
this name in the latinized form with *de + place-name*.
Given the dictionary's specific attestations for Normans named 'Howard'
and 'Huard' in the eleventh and early 12th centuries, it seems very
likely that the ducal Howards, at least, derived their patronymic
surname from either of these names, though the specific eponymous
Conquest-era ancestor of the ducal Howards is, I think, not known.
Query: who IS the first known ancestor of the ducal Howard line? What
does CP say?
Nat Taylor
Nathaniel Taylor
<snip>
>Query: who IS the first known ancestor of the ducal Howard line? What
>does CP say?
Kay had already posted:
>J. Horace Round, _The Peerage_, p.79 quotes Walter Rye _History
>of Norfolk_, "This family descesnds from Sir William Howard, who
>was a grown man and on the bench in 1293, whose real pedigree
>is very obscure and doubtful, and who invariably spelt his name
>Haward. ...."
Hmm. The _Dictionary of English Surnames_ doesn't appear to make a
choice, though it looks, from all the variants they cite, as though the
form 'Haward' is just as likely a variant of the Norman personal names
of two centuries earlier, than of the Saxon 'Hayward' or other
contributors. Can we make an inference, that, given his social
standing, this man is more likely descended from a Norman 'Houardus'
than a Saxon 'Haeg-weard'?
Nat Taylor
Kåre Hasselberg
"Nathaniel Taylor" <nta...@post.harvard.edu> skrev i melding
news:ntaylor-F62D44...@nnrp02.earthlink.net...
And further back, it perhaps derives from the norse name Havardr (modern
Haavard, "aa" is pronounced "aw") ?
Just a wild guess.
Regards,
K Hasselberg
D. Spencer Hines
As in _John Harvard_ of Boston.
Pronounced _Haavad_ ---- similar to the Norse.
<Groak!>
It may be said that, thanks to the 'clercs', humanity did evil for two
thousand years, but honoured good. This contradiction was an honour to
the human species, and formed the rift whereby civilisation slipped into
the world." "La Trahison des clercs" [The Treason of the Intellectuals]
(1927) Julien Benda (1867-1956)
All replies to the newsgroup please. Thank you kindly. All original
material contained herein is copyright and property of the author. It
may be quoted only in discussions on this forum and with an attribution
to the author, unless permission is otherwise expressly given, in
writing.
------------------
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor.
"Kåre Hasselberg" <kh...@online.no> wrote in message
news:N%Kj9.25034$sR2.4...@news4.ulv.nextra.no...
Annie Natalelli-Waloszek
of the many variants posted, I find only a few close matches in France...
Haworth, in Alsace, and the domaine of Huart, in the plateau centrale...
another find is interesting because of a previous query concerning Agnes
Hotot, the wife of the first Lord Dudley of Clapton abt 1380... if you
recall in
a dispute between her father & a certain R.. over lands, which was to be
settled by combat, her father was striken with the gout & to save his honor
& their lands, she went in his place, won the day, saved the family, & was
thereafter represented on their family arms coat...
Hotot en Auge is in Basse Normandy; there is also a Hottot les Bagues, in
Basse Normandy, & a Hautot sur Mer in Haute Normandy, plus a 4 other
Hautots, -lAuvray, -le Vatois, St Sulplice, & -sur Seine, all in Haute
Normandy...
In fact, most all the names of families come to England with the Conqueror,
are names of towns in Normandy... although Im not sure that the name is
always taken from the locale; I think it's often the inverse, the town takes
it's name from the dominant family, often from a given name, or a trait,
whatever...
in any case, Avranches, Bohun, Beauchamps, Beaufort, Montfort, Beaumont,
Ozeville, etc are all represented to this day... not all of them came with
the
Conqueror, but they came over early...
Annie
Kay Allen AG
"The balance of evidence seems therefore to be that the Howards sprang
from an able man of Saxon origin named Haward,* who married well, a
precedent closely followed by most of his descendants."
"*If I were allowed a conjecture as to his descent, it would be that his
name may be identical with that of Hereward. We know that the Judge was at
an early period of his life standing Counsel to the Corporatiob od Lynn,
and in high favor with it; and not long before I find that a William
Hereward who may [italicized by Rye] have been his father was a merchant
of Lynn, and apparently a wealthy one---Vide Litt. Claus. 5 Hen. III., m.
6, and 8 Hen. e., m. 1. In the Subsidy Roll for 1 Ed. III. (before
quoted), a Willaim Heyward is rated in Burnham Westgate, and a William
Hereward in the adjoining village of Burnham Thorp. If it could be proved
these two were identical, it would go far to help my guess. On the other
hand, 'hayward is defined by Halliwell (Dict. Arch. and Prov. Words, p.
440) as being originally a person who guarded the corn and farmyard in
the'night time, and gave warning by a horn in case of alarm from robbers.
The term was afterwards applied to a person who looked after the cattle,
and prevented them from breaking down the fences; and the warden of a
common is still so called insome parts of the county.'
M.A. Lower (N. and Q., 3rd ser, xi., p. 84) thinks that the name of Howard
has nothing to do with Hogward or Hayward, and says the name Hovard is
well known in Normandy. Hofward, a Saxon freeman, held Boyton in Walsham
Hundred, Norfolk, temp. Domesday, and a name somewhat similar occurs in
the Annales Cambriae under the yearm956, where mention is made of the
drowning of Haardus filius Meurue (monumenta Hist., p. 837). Henry Howard
refers to several Saxon monetaries of Norwich of the name of Howard."
Also in Round's quote of Rye, "...Two Coram rege rolls, referred to by the
heralds as mentioning William 'de' Howard and William 'Hauward' have each
been tampered with to make them so read--the 'le' which was undoubtedly in
the first, having been cut out, [superscript 1] ans the tail of the'y' in
the second having been also removed with a knife, to make 'Hayward' read
'Hauward.' "
"superscript 1, Compare the remarks in this paper on the efforts to chand
'le' Poher into 'de' Poher."
Descent from Hereward the Wake is considered by both to bwe ludicrous.
Hope this adds something to the discussion.
Kay Allen AG
Nathaniel Taylor
Thanks, Kay. Note here is Lower seems to add another possible
Anglo-Saxon originating name: 'hof-weard', though 'haeg-weard' / Hayward
does seem closer to the 13th-century form 'Haward'. I guess if I had to
bet on a specific origin of the ducal 'Haward' line, I would look at
people named 'Haeg-weard' / Hayward.
Kare wrote:
>And further back, it perhaps derives from the norse name Havardr?
I'm not sure which of the Anglo-Saxon forms corresponds most closely to
the Norse 'Havardr'; I assume that it goes back to a cognate compound in
Old Norse which would be cognate (a sibling form) but not the origin of
the name in Old English (Anglo-Saxon).
Nat Taylor
Derek Howard
<snip>
> 6. 'Haworth' is the only toponym I find in the dictionary potentially
> contributing to the surname spelled 'Howard'; it is Anglo-Saxon-Danish,
> found in Yorkshire West Riding. As a surname it was common in the
> corrupted form 'Howarth' by the 16th c., conceivably confusable and
> contributory to some 'Howard' names. The dictionary cites no usages of
> this name in the latinized form with *de + place-name*.
In my own case the surname almost certainly is derived from Heworth on
the outskirts of York. There are well documented references to de
Heworths through the 14th to 16th centuries and Heworths after.
Spelling was badly corrupted to many varients Heawearth, Hayworth and
Howard being amongst them in the 17th to 18th centuries. After the
Earls of Carlisle arrived in Yorkshire at Castle Howard the native
families appear to have standardised on that form.
In Yorkshire though there is a common tendency to interchange -d and
-th, most Haworths however survived distinct around Airedale.
IIRC in the 19th cent. George Plantagenet-Harrison tried to tie the
noble Howards to Heywood in Lancashire and Orm of Ormskirk!
Derek Howard
Karen Repko
Dear Nat, Kay, Spencer & Kare,
Thank you for this very fine and much appreciated discussion into
the possible origin of the name Howard. I knew that if I asked, I
would receive the very best input, and I was not disappointed.
I would like to apologize for assuming that the *de* Hayward name
was Norman-French in origin, I fear this was due to my lack of
knowledge in regard to surnames. A fault which I hope to correct with
proper study in the future, perhaps one of you could suggest several
good literary sources which would help me in this field?
Would it be possible to have a more detailed reply to Nat's final
query, "Can we make an inference, that, given his social standing,
this man is more likely descended from a Norman 'Houardus' than a
Saxon "Haeg-weard'?"
Again, thank you all so very much~
Cheers,
Karen
Renia
Grant, Frankling Watts, London and New York 1972, which I bought in recent
years at Arundel Castle, says that "One story says that the name Howard
was once the same as Hereward, and that the dukes of Norfolk are descended
from that old Anglo-Saxon hero Hereward the Wake . . . " The writer makes
no criticism or comment on this, but continues that "the first Howard
ancestor whom we can really be sure about is Sir William Howard . . . "
who was from East Winch in West Norfolk, a lawyer who died in 1308.
The occupational surname, Hayward, derives from a public official in
charge of the commons of a town or village. Whether Howard has the same
derivation, I could not say.
Someone mentioned Haworth in Yorkshire. The Ha- part is pronounced to
rhyme with paw, not pa or pay. But the Ha- is pronounced short, so it
almost sounds like Horth. It derives from the Old English of haega and
worth or enclosure with a hedge.
Haywards Heath, in Sussex, near me, has the same Old English derivation of
an enclosure with a hedge, with the later addition of Heath.
Renia
Cristopher Nash
>A genealogy of the ducal family called "The Howards of Norfolk", by Neil
>Grant, Frankling Watts, London and New York 1972, which I bought in recent
>years at Arundel Castle, says that "One story says that the name Howard
>was once the same as Hereward, and that the dukes of Norfolk are descended
>from that old Anglo-Saxon hero Hereward the Wake . . . " The writer makes
>no criticism or comment on this, but continues that "the first Howard
>ancestor whom we can really be sure about is Sir William Howard . . . "
>who was from East Winch in West Norfolk, a lawyer who died in 1308.
Renia, it'd be interesting to know whether any further details have
turned up for you re Sir William Howard. E.g. any verification that
he is in fact "an ancestor" of this line? and if so, any
confirmation of his m. to Alice da. of Sir Edmund Fitton? More on
the Fittons?
You may well have 'given your all' on this subject in your 28 Apr
2000 posting copied below and that we discussed (with Leo) in subseq.
exchanges -- in which case thanks anyway!
Cheers.
Cris
>Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 11:06:22 +0100
>From: Renia Simmonds <PSim...@cwcom.net>
>To: GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com
>Subject: Re: the Howards
>
>Burke's Peerage, 1829 starts the pedigree with WILLIAM HOWARD, Chief
>Justice of
>the Common Pleas between 1297 to 1308, had large estates in
>Wigenhale, Norfolk.
>Married twice: 1. Alice, dau and heiress of Sir Edward Fitton, knt, by whom he
>had two sons. 2. Alice, dau of Sir Robert ufford, knt, but had no
>issue of this
>marriage. He was s. by his elder son, SIR JOHN HOWARD, knt, one of the
>gentlement of the bedchamber to King Edward I, d 1331.
>
>Burke's Peerage 1953, however, starts the pedigree with JOHN HOWARD, of
>Wiggenhall St Peter, Norfolk, 1267, had issue by Lucy, his wife (who m 2ndly,
>John Germund, of Wiggenhall, St Germain). [The relationship to the next in the
>line is not given - thus, perhaps, not established?]
>SIR WILLIAM HOWARD, of Wiggenhall, Justice of the Common Pleas 7 Oct 1297. Mar
>1stly Gilla, dau and co-heir of Sir William of Terrington, Kt (by Gilla his
>wife), and had issue,
>1. JOHN, Sir, his successor
>Sir William mar 2ndly, Alice, dau of Sir Robert de Ufford, of Ufford, Suffolk,
>Kt, Jucticiar of Ireland, and by her had issue
>2. WILLIAM (Sir), Sheriff of Counties Cambridge and Huntingdon, mar
>Joan, widow
>of Baldwin Dankeni, of Holkham, co Norfolk, and dsp ante 22 Sep 1328.
>Sir William Howard died shortly after 3 May, 1308; his widow Alice, mar 2ndly
>Sir Robert de Watevill, of Overton, Hunts. Knighted with Edward, Prince of
>Walles, 22 May, 1308, summoned to Parliament 1326-30. She was dead 1
>June 1326.
>Sir Robert re-married Margery (d 1349) dau of 1st Lord hastings.
>
>"The Howards of Norfolk" by Neil Grant, Franklin Watts, London and New York
>(revised 1979), says: "The first Howard ancestor whom we can really be sure
>about is Sir William Howard.... from the village of East Winch.....
>a lawyer...
>and built up a large estate near King's Lynn." No wife and no
>parents mentioned.
>His son, Sir John Howard "followed his father's sensible example and expanded
>his property by marrying a rich wife. Lady Joan was, in fact, related to the
>royal family."
>
>This is a slim hardback volume, written for children, which I bought
>at Arundel
>Castle a few years ago. The author thanks His Grace, the Duke of Norfolk for
>permission to reproduce illustrations, and the Castle Manager at
>Arundel Castle,
>for his help with the book.
>
>There are more details and dates in the Burke's 1953, but taking the three
>sources together, I would say that the relationship between the first John
>Howard, and William is not proven, particularly, as William was from
>East Winch,
>which is a few miles to the east of Wiggenhall. If the first John
>Howard was of
>Wiggenhall, and William was of East Winch, and later of Wiggenhall, then it
>sounds as if they were cousins, or uncle and nephew, not father and son, with
>William inheriting from John.
>
>Neil Grant's book does give narrative details of wives, but he omits the wives
>of both this John and William, though he does say William had "two wives, who
>both brought him property." This suggests, that in the Arundel
>Castle archives,
>there is the information on the two wives. This could be borne out by the
>details given in Burke's 1953, (which gives the wives as 1. Gilla de
>Terrington
>and 2. Alice de Ufford) which Leo implies is the same info in Burke's 1938.
>
>This does not explain why John Martin Robinson gives the wives as (1) Alice
>daughter of Sir Robert Ufford s.p. and (2) Alice daughter of Sir Edward
>Fitton.
>
>In this case, I would go for Burke's, for the Howards were illustrious enough
>not to have to invent ancestors
>
>[SNIP]
--
Renia
says that William Howard (d 1308) is an ancestor of this line. Why would it need
verification? It's his presumed ancestor John who might need verification and the
identity of his wife or wives the second of whom both editions of Burke's agrees to
be Alice daughter of Sir Robert Ufford.
Burke's 1829 gives the first wife as Alice dau and heiress of Sir Edward Fitton by
whom he had 2 sons and no sons by his second wife.
Burke's 1953 gives the first wife as Gilla dau and co-heir of Sir William de
Terrington by whom he had 1 son, his heir, John. This source says he had a son,
William, by his second wife.
I suspect that the 1953 is an update of the 1829 after further research.
With reference to Hereward, the 1829 dismisses him as an ancestor after "much
fruitless research" by Dugdale, who learnt from Ingulph, Abbott of Crouland,
contemporary with Hereward, that Hereward left only one daughter, named Turfrida.
A search in PROCAT shows William Howard's name was also spelt Haward when he
swapped lands in Terrington and elsewhere for lands in Wiggenhall. (C143/35/20) (29
Ed I).
Another undated document (C1/77/62) refers to William Howard, son and heir of
Katherine, late the wife of John Howard v Thomas brother of the said William
Howard: land in Terrington, Norfolk.
Renia
Karen Repko
Hello Chris and Renia,
I have followed with great interest, the contribution that both of
you have made to the discussion on the Howards of Norfolk.
Renia, your comparison on the various Burke editions of the Howard
ancestry have been very enlightening, and it is interesting to note
that the on-line version of Burkes(106th ed)also begins the Howard
line with Sir William Howard of East Winch, Norfolk. So, very little
revision has been done on the Howard line since the 1953 edition.
Chris, I think it would be very interesting to see what CP has to
say about the ancestors of Sir William Howard, or if Cokayne even
ventures an opinion as to the origins of the Howard name, but not
having this publication, I had hoped someone with access would check
this and let us know.
I appreciate any and all interest in this subject, and wish I had
more input to offer other than thanking everyone for their
participation in this discussion.
Cheers,
Karen
Renia
Margaret Mowbray, daughter of the Duke of Norfolk, so nothing helpful there.
Renia
ADRIANC...@aol.com
writes:
Renia wrote;
<snip>
> Someone mentioned Haworth in Yorkshire. The Ha- part is pronounced to
> rhyme with paw, not pa or pay. But the Ha- is pronounced short, so it
> almost sounds like Horth. It derives from the Old English of haega and
> worth or enclosure with a hedge.
>
I pronounce it as "Howorth" (as in How?) but I could be wrong - any Brontė
specialists around here?
But, I still contend that the "w" in Burwash is not pronounced. I think I
live about the same distance as you do from Burwash, have been there (not
just to Bateman's) and once had a client who ran the local hotel.
best regards,
Adrian
Renia
> In a message dated 29/09/02 03:56:57 GMT Daylight Time, ren...@ntlworld.com
> writes:
>
> Renia wrote;
>
> <snip>
>
> > Someone mentioned Haworth in Yorkshire. The Ha- part is pronounced to
> > rhyme with paw, not pa or pay. But the Ha- is pronounced short, so it
> > almost sounds like Horth. It derives from the Old English of haega and
> > worth or enclosure with a hedge.
> >
>
> I pronounce it as "Howorth" (as in How?) but I could be wrong - any Brontė
> specialists around here?
Now I wonder if I'm muddling that with Hawick - pronounced Hoick - or if I heard
it on a Bronte documentary somewhere!
>
> But, I still contend that the "w" in Burwash is not pronounced. I think I
> live about the same distance as you do from Burwash, have been there (not
> just to Bateman's) and once had a client who ran the local hotel.
>
> best regards,
> Adrian
I couldn't say about Burwash. I've always pronounced it Burr-wash. I've never
heard it pronounced Burrash. But, that isn't to say that I'm right. I expect
foreigners from more than 10 miles away haven't a clue and say it as they read
it. Haven't been to Bateman's for years. Nice hall.
Renia
Karen Repko
> Burke's 1953 gives the first wife as Gilla dau and co-heir of Sir William de
> Terrington by whom he had 1 son, his heir, John. This source says he had a son,
> William, by his second wife.
>
> I suspect that the 1953 is an update of the 1829 after further research.
>
> With reference to Hereward, the 1829 dismisses him as an ancestor after "much
> fruitless research" by Dugdale, who learnt from Ingulph, Abbott of Crouland,
> contemporary with Hereward, that Hereward left only one daughter, named Turfrida.
>
> A search in PROCAT shows William Howard's name was also spelt Haward when he
> swapped lands in Terrington and elsewhere for lands in Wiggenhall. (C143/35/20) (29
> Ed I).
>
> Another undated document (C1/77/62) refers to William Howard, son and heir of
> Katherine, late the wife of John Howard v Thomas brother of the said William
> Howard: land in Terrington, Norfolk.
>
> Renia
Renia,
I am wondering where Burke got his information on this Gilla wife,
dau of Sir William Terrington for Sir William Howard. And as Burke
dropped this reference in his subsequent editions, does this mean that
it has been proved that Sir William, of East Winch, Norfolk, Counsel
to King's Lynn Corporation, never married this Gilla Terrington? Is
it possible that Sir William had three wives instead of just the two
that are proven...Ufford and Fitton?
Do we know how the Howards obtained the Terrington lands; which you
make reference to in the above post, re...(C 143/35/20 & C 1/77/62) I
am only guessing here, but it appears to me, that the lands may have
been aquired through William's marriage to this Gilla, dau of Sir
William Terrington, hence the name Terrington for both his possible
wife and for the name of the lands in question.
Cheers,
Karen
Cristopher Nash
>
> Chris, I think it would be very interesting to see what CP has to
>say about the ancestors of Sir William Howard, or if Cokayne even
>ventures an opinion as to the origins of the Howard name, but not
>having this publication, I had hoped someone with access would check
>this and let us know.
Virtually all CP has to say - with no signif addition to what's been
said here - is confined to the little offered in an appendix (K) to
vol IX. One of the deepmost if semi-well-kept-secret pleasures of
trueblue geneal-snobs is that, of Britain's nobility, the premier
family is parvenu enough to warrant scarcely a mention in CP prior to
their accession to the dukedom ca. 1483. { ;- * Both - the stories
of the Howards' power (and their Catholic affiliations) and of
people's attitudes to it - are actually an intriguing/revealing
feature of English socio-econ history. I spose you cd say BTW that
Waugh's _Brideshead Revisited_ (whose TV adaptation was neatly shot
in part at one of the Howards' castles) hints at part of this.
Cris
--
rug...@gmail.com
Andrew Lancaster
Ian Goddard
> On Sunday, May 13, 2018 at 6:08:58 PM UTC+2, rug...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Saturday, September 21, 2002 at 8:20:50 AM UTC-7, Karrpk wrote:
>>> Hello group,
>>>
>>> Can anyone tell me with any authority, what the origin of the
>>> surname Howard is.
>>>
>> Name is pronounced HOW-erd. It is of Scandinavian origin, and the meaning of Howard is "high guardian". From hâ ward, with one of the early forms being Haward. Occupational name and aristocratic surname of one of the great houses of English nobility, including the dukes of Norfolk and Queen Catherine HOWARD King Henry VIII Tudor 5th wife.
>
> There is more than one origin.
>
replacing the earlier spelling of Heward in the C18 & C19. The presence
of the Howard family as owners of the manor of Glossop a few miles away
might have been an influence there.
Heywood is also a surname and should be distinct as there's the
possibility of deriving it from the place of that name in Lancashire.
There's also the more prosaic occupational name of Hayward as a source.
Ian
eil...@singouteileen.com
Hovite
> This book about Hereward and his descendants says that Howard is not derived from Hereward but from Howardus, mentioned in the Domesday Book. I have no idea if he is right but it seems well researched (published 1891): https://archive.org/stream/cu31924027954266#page/n11/mode/2up says that
“Five of the six first Earls of this line have name with a distinct Danish termination, ric or gar” but –ric and –gar are very common Anglo-Saxon name elements (although cognates do occur in Norse, namely –ríkr and –geirr).
To call Leofwine “Earl of Leicester” is an error: he was Ealdorman of Hwicce.
The four previous earls are imaginary.
The Lucia floating around on the same table is another fictional person. Obviously her name is in the wrong form for an Anglo-Saxon.
Howard could be from Norse Hávarðr, but equally it could be from the Anglo-Saxon cognate Heahweard.
Andrew Lancaster
Peter Howarth
>
> I think most often it is from placenames and from the old job title of Hay Ward. The latter seems to be the origin of the surname of the famous Dukes from East Anglia.
Peter Howarth
Andrew Lancaster
Peter Howarth
There is no evidence that the family ever used the surname Hayward.
There is no explanation, along the lines of the Great Vowel Shift for example, to show why 'hay' changed to 'how'.
There is a little bit of evidence from East Anglia in Reaney and Wilson:
Houardus 1066 Essex
Howard 1101-7 Norfolk
Willelmus filius Howard 1188 Suffolk
Owardus, Houwardus, Howardus 1221-2 Suffolk
In the OED, the earliest written use of hayward/heiward is in c.1223.
Peter Howarth
Matthew Tompkins
> > > On Saturday, 23 June 2018 10:37:41 UTC+1, Andrew Lancaster wrote:
I think most often it is from placenames and from the old job title of Hay Ward. The latter seems to be the origin of the surname of the famous Dukes from East Anglia.
>
I'm not trying to be difficult, but I obviously have an interest. Is there actual evidence for the derivation of this specific family, or is it simply based on etymology, folk or otherwise?
> > > Peter Howarth
>
>
Hi Peter, your question is welcome but I am not at a good moment for answering in a very complete way. It is a family I've never focused on, but a region where I have read many sources looking at other families. I believe they were from around the Norfolk Cambridge border, and that early spellings are in the direction of the job name. I think this appears already in older sources like Blomefield and much later Rye, and I am at least not aware of it being disputed. I would be interested to learn more myself.
>
>
> I have looked up those sources. There is no evidence for Hayward becoming Howard. This is folk etymology, i.e. a load of cobblers. Two words sound similar so they must be connected. It is of the same standard as the idea that, when Edmund of Lancaster was called Crouchback, it really meant Crossed-back.
>
> There is no evidence that the family ever used the surname Hayward.
> There is no explanation, along the lines of the Great Vowel Shift for example, to show why 'hay' changed to 'how'.
>
> There is a little bit of evidence from East Anglia in Reaney and Wilson:
> Houardus 1066 Essex
> Howard 1101-7 Norfolk
> Willelmus filius Howard 1188 Suffolk
> Owardus, Houwardus, Howardus 1221-2 Suffolk
>
> In the OED, the earliest written use of hayward/heiward is in c.1223.
> Peter Howarth
>
>
Blomefield’s Norfolk, vol. 5, p. 235 et seq., sets out a fairly detailed descent of the Howards back to Sir William Howard of Wiggenhall, just south of King’s Lynn, appointed JCP in 1297, apparently following Dugdale and a pedigree in Caius College, Cambridge. The History of Parliament 1386-1421 accepts this descent (see Sir John Howard c.1366-1437), adding that the judge ‘possibly came of burgess stock from Bishop’s Lynn’ (ie King’s Lynn).
Blomefield says the judge was the son of a John who ‘took the sirname of Heyward, Hauuard, or Howard and was the first of this family, of that sirname; which as I take it, he took from the office of heyward there.’ [fn 7?]
Blomefield doesn’t cite any early records of the surname to support this derivation. A number of late 13C deeds recording dealings of the Wiggenhall/Kings Lynn Howards, all in the form ‘Howard’ can be seen here:
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=qAc1AQAAIAAJ&pg=PA121&lpg=PA121&dq=howard+OR+hayward+%22lenn+episcopi%22&source=bl&ots=9yR3hUPdKE&sig=NgRvyhq7y6ch6PB02Bk-X7oj1lM&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwid-oLL7ezbAhWJKFAKHULmCwMQ6AEIKTAA#v=snippet&q=hayward&f=false
After a (very) brief google I can’t find any early records of the Wiggenhall/King’s Lynn family spellt Hayward or Heyward.
However, the earliest references to the judge in the Calendars of Close Rolls, Fine Rolls and Patent Rolls (CCR Edw I vol. 3, 1288-96; CFR Edw I vol. 1, 1272-1307; and CPR Edw I vol. 3, 1292-1301), all spell his name as Haward (Blomefield’s Hauuard), though the form Howard begins to creep in from about 1300 onwards, so I think Haward may be the original form of the family’s surname. It’s not exactly Hayward, but it is closer to it than Howard.
Research in early charters or manorial records from Wiggenhall and King's Lynn might produce earlier transitional forms between Hayward and Haward.
Matt Tompkins
Matthew Tompkins
> Blomefield’s Norfolk, vol. 5, p. 235 et seq., sets out a fairly detailed descent of the Howards back to Sir William Howard of Wiggenhall, just south of King’s Lynn, appointed JCP in 1297, apparently following Dugdale and a pedigree in Caius College, Cambridge. The History of Parliament 1386-1421 accepts this descent (see Sir John Howard c.1366-1437), adding that the judge ‘possibly came of burgess stock from Bishop’s Lynn’ (ie King’s Lynn).
>
> Blomefield says the judge was the son of a John who ‘took the sirname of Heyward, Hauuard, or Howard and was the first of this family, of that sirname; which as I take it, he took from the office of heyward there.’ [fn 7?]
>
Peter Howarth
I was taught more than sixty years ago to pronounce Chaucerian English the way the English master had been taught at university at least forty years before that. But I would suggest that, even if we accept the spelling Haward, which resurfaces once or twice a couple of centuries later, the first syllable is more likely to have been pronounced 'hah' rather than 'hay' or 'haw'. And 'hah' is the first part of the diphthong 'how' (with the second part 'oo' represented by the 'w'?). So I'm not sure that Haward is much closer to Hayward than Howard is.
Peter Howarth
Matthew Tompkins
I have finally bestirred myself to have a look in Hanks' Coates' and McClure's Oxford Dictionary of Family Names in Britain and Ireland (accessible on-line if you can sign in via Athens), which has a good discussion of the name (and also Howarth). Briefly they say it is a patronym from the Middle English personal names Huward (a diminutive of Hugh), also spelled Howard and another personal name Howard (from the Old Danish personal name Hwarth).
But then they hedge their bets with a suggestion that Howard may sometimes have been confused with Hayward, saying:
"Reaney points out that in the Parish Register of Horringer (Suffolk), about 1670–80, Hayward is regularly written Howard, and in the Walthamstow Toni court rolls from 1678 to 1882 the ‘marshbaley’ is often called the hayward or howard , so that some Howards may have been Haywards and vice versa."
Matthew Tompkins
> On Monday, June 25, 2018 at 11:27:03 AM UTC+1, Peter Howarth wrote:
> > On Monday, 25 June 2018 10:21:38 UTC+1, Matthew Tompkins wrote:
> > > On Monday, June 25, 2018 at 10:02:12 AM UTC+1, Matthew Tompkins wrote:
> > >
> > > > Blomefield’s Norfolk, vol. 5, p. 235 et seq., sets out a fairly detailed descent of the Howards back to Sir William Howard of Wiggenhall, just south of King’s Lynn, appointed JCP in 1297, apparently following Dugdale and a pedigree in Caius College, Cambridge. The History of Parliament 1386-1421 accepts this descent (see Sir John Howard c.1366-1437), adding that the judge ‘possibly came of burgess stock from Bishop’s Lynn’ (ie King’s Lynn).
> > > >
> > > > Blomefield says the judge was the son of a John who ‘took the sirname of Heyward, Hauuard, or Howard and was the first of this family, of that sirname; which as I take it, he took from the office of heyward there.’ [fn 7?]
> > > >
> > > I meant to add a bit more there about the contents of Blomefield's footnotes 7 et seq., but forgot. After a brief discussion of the etymological origins of the surname Howard, in which he rejects hall-ward' and 'hold ward' in favour of 'high or chief-ward', he lists a number of early deeds from Wiggenhall and its district in which the name appears as Howard - some of them probably the same as those in the Camden Soc publication linked to above. None of them is Haward, however, which perhaps points away from Haward being the original form.
> >
> > Very many thanks, Matt, for the actual evidence. That was what I was hoping for and failed to find.
> >
> > I was taught more than sixty years ago to pronounce Chaucerian English the way the English master had been taught at university at least forty years before that. But I would suggest that, even if we accept the spelling Haward, which resurfaces once or twice a couple of centuries later, the first syllable is more likely to have been pronounced 'hah' rather than 'hay' or 'haw'. And 'hah' is the first part of the diphthong 'how' (with the second part 'oo' represented by the 'w'?). So I'm not sure that Haward is much closer to Hayward than Howard is.
> >
> > Peter Howarth
>
> Yes, I'm not convinced Haward is anything other than a slightly variant form of Howard.
>
>
Tsk, clumsy spelling - the Old Danish name is 'Hawarth', not Hwarth.
Matt
Peter Howarth
Later, in the seventeenth century and onwards, Howard and Hayward became confused, and it was this that misled Blomefield and Rye into applying that derivation to the older Norfolk family. The confusion was not limited to East Anglia, as in the examples in Reaney, but was also found in the West Riding. George Redmond, 'Surnames and Genealogy' p 211, mentions
1603 William Haworthe alias Hayward, Saddleworth
1670 Robert Howard alias Heywood, Wawne
However, both areas were under the influence of branches of the ducal family. It would be interesting to know whether the same confusion existed elsewhere in the country.
Peter Howarth
Ian Goddard
> There is no evidence for Hayward becoming Howard. This is folk etymology
the spellings Hayward, Heywardand Heward was used in the baptisms of the
children of a James H, Haeward (let's cover either preference!) for the
daughter of a George and Heyward again for the daughter of a John.
Heward was also used for the daughter of an Ellen.
In the next generation John, who I take to have been the son of James,
has children baptised as Hayward (twice) Heyward and Howard. A
contemporary, James has 3 children baptised under the name of Heyward
and a George has a child under the name of Hayward.
Two of the sons of John in that 2nd generation were both given the
spelling of Heward in the marriage register although these marriages
were in the neighbouring parish of Kirkburton. Their first children,
baptised in the 1780s & 90s were recorded as Howard with Hayward and
particularly Heward reappearing in the later '901 and 1800s. Eventually
the spelling settled down as Howard.
Earlier, but just across the Penines in Glossop, Derbys, there was a
Goddard family of whom a son Edward became vicar of Amrath in
Pembrokeshire & provided a pedigree (apparently in 1591) which appears
in "Heraldic Visitations of Wales and part of the Marches between the
years 1586 and 1613 by Lewys Dwnn, Vol 1" p198. It shows Edward's
sister Als (sic) marrying William Havard (sic) with several children.
The father, John's, will renders this William and his children's surname
as Heywarde.
Clearly, at least in this part of the world several spellings, including
Hayward and Howard, were interchangeable. What the original was, if
such a term is meaningful, I have no idea.
Ian
Peter Howarth
This 'confusion' of names seems to have occurred in modern times at parish level, rather than amongst mediaeval aristocracy. Is that part of the history of surnames, how they spread down through society? Did such wide confusion happen to all surnames of the time or to only some? How much did the pronunciation by the family vary, and how much was it the way the parson interpreted it or wrote it down?* And did things settle down more later on?
It is important that we work from actual evidence, so many thanks for your detailed research. But it seems to raise as many questions as it answers!
Peter Howarth
*In Victorian times, the mistress of the house might change a servant's name to one 'more suited' to their station in life. Or a teacher would enter a child's name onto the register in its 'proper' form, rather than the one used at home.
Ian Goddard
> Did such wide confusion happen to all surnames of the time or to only some?
susceptible. Early (C15th) versions which are clearly epithets
referring to the place name are something along the lines of Dernilee.
When the family lost their eponymous farm they moved to Glossop. The
first part became Dear and the latter part seems largely to have stayed
as 2 syllables resulting in present variations Dearnally and Dearnelly.
When it spread west of the Pennines it gradually lost the middle
syllable to become Dearnley. The 2 syllable spelling has worked its way
round to the original placename in Rochdale (not far from Howarth,
incidentally).
I'm not sure of the Glossop/Stockport pronunciation but in my area the
first part is pronounced exactly as in "dear" but others, including Mark
Dearnley who runs the Dearnley genealogy web site pronounces it as if it
were spelled "Durnley".
There are probably a couple of influences at work. One is the general
evolution of English pronunciation and the other is the way regional
accents wrapped the same word round the tongue differently and, at least
in Yorkshire, tended to shorten words.
One well-known example of changing pronunciation is that of "er" which
was formerly close to the modern pronunciation of "ar" and in England
the older pronunciation is retained in the case of Derby and Hertford
while I believe the US pronunciation of Derby is modern and the old
pronunciation of Hertford has been retained but the spelling adjusted to
Hartford (which my spill chucker insisted on!). Is it possible that
something of that nature is happening with Howard? Both Yorkshire and
Lancashire have Haworth place names and in both cases the first element
is pronounced as in "how".
Ian