LAMORAL EGMONT

[Nancy Golden]

I have just found out that I'm possibly descended from LAMORAL Earl of
EGMONT/EGMOND, and I have some questions:

1. According to the Encyclopedia Britannica, his father was JOHN IV Earl of
E. Who were John III, II, etc.?

2. LAMORAL's son is CORNELIUS HENDRICK VROOMAN. Was VROOMAN the family name
of the non-earls?

3. How do the Irish EARLS of EGMONT fit into the earlier EGMONTS?

This is a new area for me, I've been concentrating on my English/ Welsh
lines, and I don't even have a good map of Europe. I would appreciate some
help getting started.

Thanks,

Nancy Golden

[manny]

hello,
coming to a recent posting

>I have just found out that I'm possibly descended from LAMORAL Earl of
>EGMONT/EGMOND,

interesting.

and I have some questions:

1. According to the Encyclopedia Britannica, his father was JOHN IV Earl of
E. Who were John III, II, etc.?

well, that was a noble family. some time ago i had found a genealogical
tree in an old spanish enccyclopedia. i will see if i find it. of course,
i am sure some of us have more complete information.

2. LAMORAL's son is CORNELIUS HENDRICK VROOMAN. Was VROOMAN the family name
of the non-earls?

i am going to check. if i remember correctly, he was behaded. and his family
sort of persecuted...trying to remember the history books.

3. How do the Irish EARLS of EGMONT fit into the earlier EGMONTS?

dunno...
hopefully somebody can sort that out.

[William Addams Reitwiesner]

Nancy Golden <NGold...@AOL.COM> wrote:

>I have just found out that I'm possibly descended from LAMORAL Earl of

>EGMONT/EGMOND, and I have some questions:

>
>1. According to the Encyclopedia Britannica, his father was JOHN IV Earl of
>E. Who were John III, II, etc.?

Lamoraal, Count of Egmond and Prince of Gavre (born in 1522 and hanged in
1588) played an important role in helping the Dutch gain their independence
from Spain. He was a son of Jan II (not IV), Count of Egmond (d. 1528) and
of Francoise de Luxembourg (d. 1557). Francoise was a great-great-niece of
Jacquette de Luxembourg, so Lamoraal was a fourth cousin of Elizabeth I of
England.

>2. LAMORAL's son is CORNELIUS HENDRICK VROOMAN. Was VROOMAN the family name
>of the non-earls?

No. Their surname (to the extent they can be considered to have a surname)
is "Egmond". Assuming this Cornelius Hendrick Vrooman ever existed, he was
not a legitimate child of Lamoraal. See *Europaeische Stammtafeln*, ed
Schwennicke, Band VI, Tafel 36, where Lamoraal's three sons and nine
daughters are shown.

>3. How do the Irish EARLS of EGMONT fit into the earlier EGMONTS?

They don't. See the second edition of Cokayne's *Complete Peerage*, vol.
V, p. 28, note (a), where the (alleged) connection is examined and
dismissed as "an impudent fiction".

William Addams Reitwiesner
wr...@erols.com

"Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc."

[j...@internet.no]

wr...@127.0.0.1 (William Addams Reitwiesner) wrote:

>Lamoraal, Count of Egmond and Prince of Gavre (born in 1522 and hanged in
>1588) played an important role in helping the Dutch gain their independence
>from Spain. He was a son of Jan II (not IV), Count of Egmond (d. 1528) and
>of Francoise de Luxembourg (d. 1557). Francoise was a great-great-niece of
>Jacquette de Luxembourg, so Lamoraal was a fourth cousin of Elizabeth I of
>England.

William,
I have some other dates about L'Amoraal van Egmond, based on the
specialist on Dutch Royal- and Noble- Genealogy, Dr Dek and read in
Oosthoeks Encyclopedie.

The Count of Egmond was hanged in 1568 in Brussels by the Duke of
Alba. He was indeed the son of Jan (Johan) IV (1499-1528) and
Francoise de Luxembourg, Comtesse de Gavre (d 1557).
(Jan II was his great-great grandfather who lived 1385-1451)

Regards
Jan

[M. van der Leeuw]

j...@internet.no wrote:

>William,
>I have some other dates about L'Amoraal van Egmond, based on the
>specialist on Dutch Royal- and Noble- Genealogy, Dr Dek and read in
>Oosthoeks Encyclopedie.
>
>The Count of Egmond was hanged in 1568 in Brussels by the Duke of
>Alba. He was indeed the son of Jan (Johan) IV (1499-1528) and
>Francoise de Luxembourg, Comtesse de Gavre (d 1557).
>(Jan II was his great-great grandfather who lived 1385-1451)
>
>Regards
>Jan
>

A few minor corrections:

-Egmond was beheaded, not hanged.
-His father was John IV as lord of Egmond, but John II as count.
-His name was Lamoraal, not L'Amoraal.

Greetings,

]\/[ichiel van der Leeuw

[D. Spencer Hines]

Thank you for those useful corrections. My data was showing "beheaded"
as well --- so I was skeptical when William Addams Reitwiesner said
Lamoraal van Egmond was "hanged."

Does the phrase, "Verkauf von Baer" --- have any connection or meaning
with reference to Lamoraal van Egmond?

Do you, or perhaps someone else, have a short Ahnenreihe for his Mother,
Francoise de Luxembourg, Comtesse de Gavre? This would allow us to make
the connection to Jacquette de Luxembourg, Dame de St. Pol and to Queen
Elizabeth of England --- that was kindly and wisely pointed out by Bill
Reitwiesner. Jacquette was reportedly the Mother of Elizabeth
Woodville, who was the Wife of Edward IV, King of England.

Was Lamoraal van Egmond a Herzog [Duke] as well as a [Graaf]Graf [Count]
and what is the Dutch for Herzog?

Thank you.
--

D. Spencer Hines --- "The final happiness of man consists in the
contemplation of truth....This is sought for its own sake, and is
directed to no other end beyond itself." Saint Thomas Aquinas,
[1224/5-1274] "Summa Contra Gentiles" [c.1258-1264]

[matthias e. storme]

>I have just found out that I'm possibly descended from LAMORAL Earl of
>EGMONT/EGMOND,

How do you descend ?

I have to look it up, but the Egmont genealogy is evidently published. They
were from Zottegem, East Flanders. You can also try soc.genealogy.benelux

--
prof. Matthias E. Storme
Matthia...@rug.ac.be
frw.st...@ufsia.ac.be
fax +32-9-2362440
http://www.ufsia.ac.be/~estorme/index.html
recht : http://www.ufsia.ac.be/~estorme/legal.html
genealogie : http://www.ufsia.ac.be/~estorme/genealogy.html
spelling : http://www.ufsia.ac.be/~estorme/spelling.html
verbond van vlaamse academici : http://www.ufsia.ac.be/~estorme/vva.html
opiniepagina "diskriminatie" : http://www.ufsia.ac.be/~estorme/discrim.html

[j...@internet.no]

"D. Spencer Hines" <shi...@worldnet.net> wrote:

>Thank you for those useful corrections. My data was showing "beheaded"
>as well --- so I was skeptical when William Addams Reitwiesner said
>Lamoraal van Egmond was "hanged."

>Do you, or perhaps someone else, have a short Ahnenreihe for his Mother,
>Francoise de Luxembourg, Comtesse de Gavre? This would allow us to make
>the connection to Jacquette de Luxembourg, Dame de St. Pol and to Queen
>Elizabeth of England --- that was kindly and wisely pointed out by Bill
>Reitwiesner. Jacquette was reportedly the Mother of Elizabeth
>Woodville, who was the Wife of Edward IV, King of England.

1 Lamoraal
3 Franzisca de Luxembourg, Comtesse de Gavre, d 1557
6 Jacques II de Luxembourg, Comte de Gavre, d 1491
7 Margareta van Brugge en Gruuthuyse
12 Jacques I de Luxembourg, Seigneur de Fiennes et Gavre, d 1487
13 Marie de Berlaymont, d 1529
24 Dirk de Luxembourg, Seigneur de Fiennes, d 1477
48 Pierre I, de Luxembourg, Comte de Saint-Pol, 1390-1433
96 Jean II de Luxembourg, Comte de Brienne, 1370-1397
192 Guy de Luxembourg, Comte de Ligne, Roussy et St Pol, 1371
193 Mathilde de Chātillon, Comtesse de St Pol

>Was Lamoraal van Egmond a Herzog [Duke] as well as a [Graaf]Graf [Count]
>and what is the Dutch for Herzog?

He was Graaf van Egmond by birth, became 1553 Prince (Vorst) de
Gavre.
In 1559 he became Stadhalter (Gouvenor) of Flanders and Artois
Duke/Herzog in dutch: Hertog

Jan

[D. Spencer Hines]

j...@internet.no wrote:

<snip>

Thanks.

>
> >Was Lamoraal van Egmond a Herzog [Duke] as well as a [Graaf]Graf [Count]
> >and what is the Dutch for Herzog?
>
> He was Graaf van Egmond by birth, became 1553 Prince (Vorst) de
> Gavre.
> In 1559 he became Stadhalter (Gouvenor) of Flanders and Artois
> Duke/Herzog in dutch: Hertog
>
> Jan

Thanks. So, I read this as indicating he should not be called "Hertog"
but "Graaf" or "Vorst" [the more senior of the two titles --- as of
1553.] Please correct me if this is mistaken.

This is a long shot, but could "Verkauf von Baer" [German] "The Market
of Baer/Beer/Beers?" be the place where he was beheaded, on 5 Jun 1568?
If so, how would one say that placename in Dutch? If not, where was he
beheaded?

Interesting fellow. He appears to be descended from Simon de Montfort,
John I "Lackland" and Isabel de Taillefer as well as, of course, Henry
II and Eleanor of Aquitaine.

Beethoven didn't write overtures about just any garden variety medieval
Vorst and Goethe didn't write plays about them.

[j...@internet.no]

"D. Spencer Hines" <shi...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:

>Thanks. So, I read this as indicating he should not be called "Hertog"
>but "Graaf" or "Vorst" [the more senior of the two titles --- as of
>1553.] Please correct me if this is mistaken.

I dont really know what is correct. In The Netherlands he is mostly
known as Graaf van Egmond. The title Prince de Gavre has no tradition.

>This is a long shot, but could "Verkauf von Baer" [German] "The Market
>of Baer/Beer/Beers?" be the place where he was beheaded, on 5 Jun 1568?
>If so, how would one say that placename in Dutch? If not, where was he
>beheaded?

I can't answer you on this. By my knowledge he was beheaded at the
Grand Place in Brussels, but this has to be confirmed by someone.
Lamoraal was beheaded by the Duke of Alba together with Count Hoorne.

>Interesting fellow. He appears to be descended from Simon de Montfort,
>John I "Lackland" and Isabel de Taillefer as well as, of course, Henry
>II and Eleanor of Aquitaine.

>Beethoven didn't write overtures about just any garden variety medieval
>Vorst and Goethe didn't write plays about them.

Try this question also on soc genealogy benelux. There will be
certainly some belgian who knows about this.
(Excusé moi, pas seule les belges, aussi les hollandais....)

Jan