Attila the Hun

[The Williams Family]

Hello,

Although this line has been disembowled before I'll take a crack at it again <g>!

>
>
> A long time ago I extracted the line from Attila the Hun and presented it to
> gen-med and it was unmercifully ripped to shreds, it is still in the
> archives.
>
> As the two lines displayed only split at the end, I will display what these
> are and you can judge for yourself
>
> Attila I, King of the Huns
> born circa 394, died 17 October 453
> no spouse recorded
> father of
> NN Prince or King of The Huns
> no spouse recorded
> father of
> NN of The Huns
> born circa 455, died before 510
> she married

The main problem is right here. The first wife of Theodoric I is not known according to the latest scholarship [1]. He
married her probably in the 470s and then married secondly Audefleda, sister of Clovis, before 498.

>
> Theodoric I, King of The Ostrogoths
> born about 454, died 30 August 526
> they have two daughters recorded
> 1.Theudocote d'Ostrogothie
> born circa 475, died 503
> married 493, Alaric II, King of the Visigoths, born circa 458, died 507
> parents of
> a.Eustere de Wisigothie, born ca.494. died 521
> married 511 Thierry I, King of Austrasia, son of King Clovis I and

Alaric & Theodegotha were the parents of King Amalric but I doubt the historicity of "Eustere". In _La Prehistoire des
Capetiens_ the only wife assigned to Thierry (more correctly Theoderic) I is Suavegotha (d. 536-65), dau. of Sigismund, King
of the Burgundians.

>

> Amalaberga
>
> 2.Ostrogotha, born circa 487, died 520/521
> married 503 Sigismond II, King of Burgundy, born ca 486, died 25 June 524
> parents of
> b.Suavegothe, born ca 504, died after 554
> married 522, Thierry I, King of Austrasia, son of King Clovis I and
> Amalaberga

Ostrogotho or Areagni (d. before c520) did marry King Sigismund but the only child listed for them in Amory (cited below) is
Sigeric who d.v.p. in 523. It may be that Suavegotha's mother is not defnitely known. I am not familiar with the
Burgundian pedigree.

>
>
> The ancestor lists covering the wives of the Merovingian kings are
> "fantastic" but to me not trust inspiring. On Tableau I we find nr.16
> Ascaric King of the Franks in Cologne, born about 270 and died in 307, which
> shows it goes back a long long time.
>
> Hope this helps?
> Best wishes
> Leo van de Pas

[1] Patrick Amory, _People and Identity in Ostrogothic Italy, 489-554_ (Cambridge: The University Press, 1997).

Sincerely,
Kelsey J. Williams

[david hughes]

am curious about the sudden interest in Attila The Hun & the genealogy
of his house…for what it is worth here are my notes on the subject for
consideration:

x. Donaton, King of Huns [1], enters Europe, circa AD 360, issue,
three sons:
a. Basiq, King of Huns [2], d c 370
b. Balamber, King of Huns [3], attacks Byzantine empire, d 390
c. Uldin (Uldes), King of Huns [4] 390-411
the two sons of Uldin [4] (above) were
a. Karaton (Charaton), King of Huns [5] 411-?, the father of Octar,
King of Huns [6]
b. Kuridak
the two sons of Prince Kuridak (above) were
a. Rugila, King of Huns [7] ?-433
b. Mundzuk
the two sons of Prince Mundzuk (above) were
a. Bleda, King of Huns [8] 433-437
b. ATTILA
-----------------------------------------------------------------
x. ATTILA "THE HUN" & "The Scourge", King of Huns [9] 437-453
had several wives: =1 Arykan; =2 Helche (Kreka); =3 Kriemhilt; =4
Ildiko (Hildiko); =5 Gundrun [note: a German myth says that his
Burgundian wife, Gundrun, murdered her twin sons, Erpe & Eiti,
begotten by him, and served their hearts for Attila to eat]
issue:
a. Scharpfe, murdered 453
b. Ortelipe, murdered 453
[note: the sons of ATTILA quarreled after his death over the
chieftainship, during which, Ardaric, the Gepidae king, rallied the
Germans against their Hunnish masters and utterly defeated the Huns at
the Battle of Nedao, 456, after which the remnant of the Huns gathered
around the sons & grandsons of Attila "the Hun", creating several
groups, of which some remained in Germany and Central Europe while
others retreated to Scythia-Minor and became the Magyars, Bulgars, &
Mongols]
c. Ellak, King of Huns [10] 453-456 [possibly the father of Aella of
Sussex & Alesa of Wessex]
d. Tuldila, King of Huns [11] 456-7
e. Dengizec, King of Huns [12] 457-469, the father of Oulibus (d469)
f. Sengilac, the father of Sunigila (daughter), wife of Odovacar, a
Teutonic chieftain, conquered the Roman Empire & became King of Italy
476-493
g. Emnetzur
h. Ultzindur
i. Elpfrat
j. Tingiz
k. Bel-Kermek (475), father of Djurash "Masgut" (498/499), father of
Tatra (Baltavar) (550s), father of Boyan-Chelbir (d590), father of
Tubdjak, King of Magna-Bulgaria (620), father of (a) Bu-Yurgan
(Organas) & (b) Alburi (d632), father of Kubrat, 1st King of Bulgaria
632-651 [note: Kubrat is called the "son" of Organus in one source,
and called his "nephew" in another source, as the son of his brother,
Alburi]
l. Ernak [called Attila's "youngest son"], King of Huns [13] 469-476
m. Escam (Ascama) (daughter), wife of Ardaric, a Gepidae chief/king
issue of Ernak [13] (above) were
a. Gordas, King of Huns [14] 493-527
b. Dullo (Dubla)
c. Zeliorbes, King of Huns [15] 530s, wars vs. Justinian The Great
d. Chaba (Chola) (530), father of Edus (Elus) (560), father of Kadiha
(590), father of Chazew (620), father of Kulchug (650), father of Edur
(680), father of Vegerus (Vegecus) (710), father of Elendus (740),
father of Avarius (770), father of Venedobel (800), father of Ogyek
(830), father of Almos (860), father of Arpad, 1st King of Hungary
896-907
e. Gheism (d535), the father of Mundio (d535)
issue of Prince Dullo (Dubla) (above) was
a. Avarius, King of Huns [16] (mid-500s), accepted Pannonia [Hungary]
from Lombard King Albion [who invaded Italy] & re-conquered Germany
568
issue of Avarius [16] (above) were
a. Chaganus, last King of Huns [17], invaded Thrace 593; wasted the
Balkans 611; the father of two sons, who were executed by Priscus in
AD 601; led remnant of Huns to Scythia-Minor
b. Schzarus
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

note: the descent-line from Attila The Hun to Charlemagne posted
recently on the net is incorrect, however, the descent can be made
through the wife of Pepin of Landen rather than through his mother,
which then would be:

00. Attila The Hun (d453)
01. Escam (Ascama) = Ardaric, Gepidae-King of Germany (d476)
02. Elemund (d493/515)
03. Austrisa = Waccho, Lombard-King of Italy (d540)
04. Walderade =1 Theudebald, King of France 548-555 [note: she =2
Clothaire I of France; & =3 Garibald I of Bavaria]
05. Grimoalde, Duke of Aquitaine (d599) = Itite (d612), daughter of
Severus, a duke
06. Itte (Idoberge) (d652) = Pepin [I] of Landen (d639)
07. Begga (d694) = Ansgise (d685)
08. Pepin [II] of Heristal (d714) =2 Aupais
09. Charles "Martel", Duke of France 737-741 =1 Rotrude
10. Pepin "Le Korte", King of France 751-768 = Bertha "The White-Lady"
11. Charlemagne

[Chris Bennett]

"david hughes" <Rdavi...@Aol.com> wrote in message
news:c57e4f24.03021...@posting.google.com...
<snip>

> c. Ellak, King of Huns [10] 453-456 [possibly the father of Aella of
> Sussex & Alesa of Wessex]

<snip>

Where on earth does this come from?????

Chris

[Gordon Banks]

I was told that Attila was his nickname, given to him by his men, meaning
something like "little dad". Is that true? Do we know his given name?

[Kevan Barton]

Oh, goodness! I hope it's not in my blood, but I'll have to watch how I
react when my wife calls me hun-nee!

Cheers,
Kevan

[Todd A. Farmerie]

david hughes wrote:
> x. ATTILA "THE HUN" & "The Scourge", King of Huns [9] 437-453
> had several wives: =1 Arykan; =2 Helche (Kreka); =3 Kriemhilt; =4
> Ildiko (Hildiko); =5 Gundrun [note: a German myth says that his
> Burgundian wife, Gundrun, murdered her twin sons, Erpe & Eiti,
> begotten by him, and served their hearts for Attila to eat]
> issue:

> c. Ellak, King of Huns [10] 453-456 [possibly the father of Aella of
> Sussex & Alesa of Wessex]

What is the basis for this 'possibility'?

> l. Ernak [called Attila's "youngest son"], King of Huns [13] 469-476
> m. Escam (Ascama) (daughter), wife of Ardaric, a Gepidae chief/king
> issue of Ernak [13] (above) were

> d. Chaba (Chola) (530), father of Edus (Elus) (560), father of Kadiha
> (590), father of Chazew (620), father of Kulchug (650), father of Edur
> (680), father of Vegerus (Vegecus) (710), father of Elendus (740),
> father of Avarius (770), father of Venedobel (800), father of Ogyek
> (830), father of Almos (860), father of Arpad, 1st King of Hungary
> 896-907

This is the claimed line, but it bears a certain resemblance to
the politically motivated origin pedigree discussed by Dumville
is several places. How many of these people can actually be
independently documented? What is the earliest document that
contains this descent, and in what context was it composed?

> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> note: the descent-line from Attila The Hun to Charlemagne posted
> recently on the net is incorrect, however, the descent can be made
> through the wife of Pepin of Landen rather than through his mother,
> which then would be:
>
> 00. Attila The Hun (d453)
> 01. Escam (Ascama) = Ardaric, Gepidae-King of Germany (d476)
> 02. Elemund (d493/515)
> 03. Austrisa = Waccho, Lombard-King of Italy (d540)
> 04. Walderade =1 Theudebald, King of France 548-555 [note: she =2
> Clothaire I of France; & =3 Garibald I of Bavaria]
> 05. Grimoalde, Duke of Aquitaine (d599) = Itite (d612), daughter of
> Severus, a duke
> 06. Itte (Idoberge) (d652) = Pepin [I] of Landen (d639)

What is the basis for this connection? It certainly differs from
other attemts to identify Itta.

taf

[Igor Sklar]

g...@gordonbanks.com ("Gordon Banks") wrote in message news:<MCEMJEDENIHEFICC...@gordonbanks.com>...

> I was told that Attila was his nickname, given to him by his men, meaning
> something like "little dad". Is that true? Do we know his given name?

'Atta' is the Gothic for father (comp. Russian 'otche'), -l- being a
dimunitive suffix. I don't think that Attila's father was a Goth. The
Huns spoke a Turkic language, and Atil/Itil is the Turkic for "Volga".
Apparently, Attila was born when Hsiung-Nu/Huns reached the Volga on
their way westward.

<...>

> l. Ernak [called Attila's "youngest son"], King of Huns [13] 469-476
> m. Escam (Ascama) (daughter), wife of Ardaric, a Gepidae chief/king
> issue of Ernak [13] (above) were
> a. Gordas, King of Huns [14] 493-527
> b. Dullo (Dubla)
> c. Zeliorbes, King of Huns [15] 530s, wars vs. Justinian The Great
> d. Chaba (Chola) (530), father of Edus (Elus) (560), father of Kadiha
> (590), father of Chazew (620), father of Kulchug (650), father of Edur
> (680), father of Vegerus (Vegecus) (710), father of Elendus (740),
> father of Avarius (770), father of Venedobel (800), father of Ogyek
> (830), father of Almos (860), father of Arpad, 1st King of Hungary
> 896-907

<...>

Hungarians speak a Finnish tongue, while the language of Huns was
definitely Turkic. Actually, "the younger brothers" and linguistic
heirs of Huns were Volga Bulgars and pieceful Chuvash people.

Having seceded from other Turkic languages very long ago, their tongue
is distinct from them to the point of mutual unintelligibility.