CP 'Correction' : Mother of Gilbert de Segrave (d. 1254) Identified
The...@aol.com
Dear Douglas, Rosie, Chris, Hap, Todd, Heather, et al.,
In prior posts to SGM, it has been noted that the mother
of Gilbert de Segrave (d. bef 8 Oct 1254) was probably
Rohese le Despenser, daughter of Thomas le Despenser and
(first ?) wife of Stephen de Segrave, chief Justice of
England (d. 1241) [1]. This has been taken as the most
likely situation, however no proof as such has been noted in
the archives to date.
On the PRO site, proof of this relationship is provided
by the acknowledgment of a gift of Sir Gilbert de Segrave
and his wife Amabil or Amabel de Chaucombe to the abbey and
convent of Stanley:
' Gift from Brother Osbert [de Westwelle] Abbot of
Stanleg' and the Convent of the same place to Sir
Gilbert de Segrave and Amabel his wife, of the
benefit of the prayers of the monks of that house
and of the whole Order during and after their lives;
also one monk for ever to celebrate for the souls of
Stephen his father and Roys his mother and Amabel his
wife, their ancestors and successors. Moreover they
acknowledge the gift from the said Gilbert of half a
mark paid to the pittancer annually on the anniversary
of his mother out of the rent of 100 shillings from
Byricot' which he gave to them in frankalmoign. ' [2]
The unambiguous language of the above document makes it
clear that Rohese le Despenser ('Roys' above) was the mother
of Gilbert de Segrave.
Good luck, and good hunting to all.
John *
NOTES
[1] See threads in SGM, including <: Re: Despencer, Segrave
real genealogy> , July 2001.
[2] Shakespeare Birthplace Trust Records Office: Gregory of Stivichall
[DR10/1 - DR10/467], DOCUMENTS OF TITLE, DEEDS AND PAPERS : Warwickshire.
Ashow, Bericote in [DR10/15].
* John P. Ravilious
Mary Zashin
Thank you again for another in your long string of informative and helpful
posts. I am now wondering if Rohese's father, Thomas le Despenser, was also
the father of Muriel, who married Hugh de Dutton, or if Muriel's father was
some other Thomas le Despenser? CP doesn't cover the Duttons, and does not
mention Muriel under Despenser (that I can see; it's always possible I
missed it). I looked in the archives; the question has been raised before
but I couldn't find that it had been answered.
According to Ormerod (Leycester):
"I do conceive here was another Hugh Dutton. . .who married Muriel, daughter
of Thomas le Dispenser, lib. C. fol. 139, b. and he had issue Hugh, Thomas,
John, and Adam." Hugh's son, Hugh, "gave to John his brother the third part
of all the town of Bolinton in Maxfield Hundred, which Thomas le Despenser
gave in free marriage Hugoni patri meo cum Muriela matre mea."
Hugh who married Muriel seems to have fl. Richard I-John. Ormerod also
reports that Hugh "had the magistracy, or rule and authority, over all the
letchers and whores of all Cheshire. . .This privilege over such loose
persons was granted first unto Roger Lacy constable of Cheshire, under
Richard the First, by Randle, sirnamed Blundevill, earl of Chester, in
memory of his good service done to the earl in raising the siege of the
Welsh-men, who had beset the earl in his castle of Rothelent in Flintshire;
for the constable having got a promiscuous rabble of such like persons
together, and marching towards the said castle, the Welsh, supposing a great
army to be coming, raised their siege and fled. . .The privilege and custom
used at this day [1666] by the heirs of Dutton, is over the minstrelsie and
common fidlers, none being suffered to play in this county without the
licence of the lord of Dutton, who keeps a court at Chester yearly, on
Midsomer-day, for the same, where all the licenced minstrels of Cheshire do
appear, and renew their licences; so that the custom seems to have been
altered to the fidlers, as necessary attendant on revellers in bawdy-houses
and taverns."
Whether myth or truth, that Midsummer court must have been a fun day for
all.
Thanks for any input from John or anyone else. . .and Merry Christmas to
all. I really like the list despite the static. Polly Zashin
Cristopher Nash
designed precisely to satisfy, which I assume this isn't).
Segrave problem has been Despensered with. Tu es vachement Amabil.
Cris
The...@aol.com wrote -
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