RE: Descendants of Constantine
Paul K Davis
As I recall, one of the genealogies in the Harleian manuscript 3859
contains a descent of Welsh princes from Constantine. This is a very early
manuscript of Welsh genealogies, but still more than half a millenium after
Constantine.
I believe the historical fact is that all of Constantine's descendants
were exterminated in dynastic wars.
-- PKD [Paul K Davis, pkd...@earthlink.net]
> [Original Message]
> From: Debbi Logan <dlo...@bellsouth.net>
> To: <GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com>
> Date: 7/11/2004 11:41:31 AM
> Subject: Descendants of Constantine
>
> I have seen several lines showing a descent from Constantine the
Great through his son Constans, down a long line of unusual given names to
Arthur, and from him on down to the Welsh kings of Dyfed.
>
> Now let me make it perfectly clear that I do NOT believe these are
true or documented descents, I just want to know about sources. Where
could such a line have come from? I know it predates the Ancestral File
and the Internet both. Someone had to find it written down somewhere.
>
> I have seen it written in Michel Call's "Royal Descents" but he
says only that some of his lines are based on tradition and have no
documentation. What tradition? Where did such a thing originate? Fairly
recent works both on and offline, including "History of Byzantium" show
Constantine's line fading out within a century or so.
>
> I know I am probably opening up a can full of squiggly, wiggly,
disgusting worms, but I'm tired of the old cans being sorted through and
thought I'd introduce a new one.
>
> Debbi
>
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
David R. Teague
On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 14:40:01 -0700 "Paul K Davis" <pkd...@earthlink.net>
writes:
> I'm sure you can get more complete answers from others, but --
>
> As I recall, one of the genealogies in the Harleian manuscript
> 3859
> contains a descent of Welsh princes from Constantine. This is a
> very early
> manuscript of Welsh genealogies, but still more than half a
> millenium after
> Constantine.
>
> I believe the historical fact is that all of Constantine's
> descendants
> were exterminated in dynastic wars.
>
> -- PKD [Paul K Davis, pkd...@earthlink.net]
Hello, everyone.
IIRC, there was a Britannia-based rival emperor called Constantine III,
whose period of power was c. 407-411, and he had a son named Constans.
It may well be that Welsh traditions of a descent from him -- which would
have to be investigated, as per any claimed descent -- have been grafted
onto Constantine the Great, who left Britain almost exactly a century
earlier. In other words, this would be an early example of the old "the
name's the same" gambit.
David Teague
________________________________________________________________
The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!
te...@mairsphotography.com
but it seams I seen something posted on this group some time ago which led
to a web site where the general consensus is that if you are from Europe you
are probably descended from him some way.
Terry
> This message was forwarded by news2mail.com. If you do not do no longer
want to
> receive messages from this group please click on
> mailto:soc.genealogy.m...@news2mail.com?subject=unsubscribe .
> For additional information see also
www.news2mail.com/soc/genealogy/medieval.html .
>
>
Jared Linn Olar
Kings of Dyfed back to Constantine. Later manuscripts contain
different variations on that tradition. Geoffrey of Monmouth used the
historical fact that Constantine was proclaimed emperor in Britain to
justify turning him into a King of Britain. His mother St. Helena was
not a Briton, but that didn't stop a legend from developing that
turned her into the daughter of a local British king named Coel.
According to Geoffrey, the immediate successors of Emperor Constantine
on the nonexistent British throne were related to Constantine.
As these legends developed, it seems there could have been confusion
among Constantine the Great and his family, the later usurper
Constantine and his son Constans, and the local Cornish dynasty which
included at least one king named Constantine. On top of that, Emperor
Constantine's mother Helena may have been confused with Elen,
legendary wife of the usurper Magnus Clemens Maximus, who shows up in
many a legendary Welsh genealogy.
P.C. Bartrum's "Early Welsh Genealogical Texts" is an indispensable
resource for these old legendary genealogies.
Jared Linn Olar
pkd...@earthlink.net ("Paul K Davis") wrote in message news:<410-220047...@earthlink.net>...
Jared Linn Olar
Kings of Dyfed back to Constantine. Later manuscripts contain
different variations on that tradition. Geoffrey of Monmouth used the
historical fact that Constantine was proclaimed emperor in Britain to
justify turning him into a King of Britain. His mother St. Helena was
not a Briton, but that didn't stop a legend from developing that
turned her into the daughter of a local British king named Coel.
According to Geoffrey, the immediate successors of Emperor Constantine
on the nonexistent British throne were related to Constantine.
As these legends developed, it seems there could have been confusion
among Constantine the Great and his family, the later usurper
Constantine and his son Constans, and the local Cornish dynasty which
included at least one king named Constantine. On top of that, Emperor
Constantine's mother Helena may have been confused with Elen,
legendary wife of the usurper Magnus Clemens Maximus, who shows up in
many a legendary Welsh genealogy.
P.C. Bartrum's "Early Welsh Genealogical Tracts" is an indispensable
resource for these old legendary genealogies.
Jared Linn Olar
pkd...@earthlink.net ("Paul K Davis") wrote in message news:<410-220047...@earthlink.net>...
Debbi Logan
Thank you so much for your kind response to my query. Constantine,
Constans, Constantius....no wonder that genealogy is such a muddle. It
makes me think of a family I knew in which the father was Stephen, the son
Stephen Jr and the poor daughter Stephanie!
Do you suppose that the older genealogies are "legendary" because they are
mythical like the pegasus; because they are unsupported by known
contemporary documentation; or because the people in them have become
"legends"--maybe they were legends in their own minds!! I guess a
combination of the above...:) :)
Thanks again
Debbi