CP correction: sub Lumley
Hal Bradley
Complete Peerage, VIII, pp. 275-6 provides an outline regarding John Lumley,
4th Lord Lumley. It states that he married Joan, "da. of Henry (Scrope),
Lord Scrope of Bolton, by his 2nd wife, Margaret, da. of Thomas (Dacre),
Lord Dacre of Gillesland."
CP XI, pp. 546-7 identifies the wives of Henry, Lord Scrope as follows: "He
married, 1stly (before 20 April 1494), Alice (aged 12 and more 23 April
1493), suo jure Baroness Scrope (of Masham), only daughter and heir of
Thomas (le Scrope), 6th Lord Scrope (of Masham), by Elizabeth, daughter and
coheir of John (Neville), Marquess of Montagu. She died s.p.m. about 1510.
He married, 2ndly, Mabel, daughter of Thomas (Dacre), 2nd Lord Dacre (of
Gilsland), by Elizabeth, according to modern doctrine suo jure Baroness
Greystoke, daughter and sole heir of Sir Robert Greystoke."
Regarding the death of Henry Scrope's first wife, Alice, in 1510, CP XI, p.
571 note c states, "In the first ed. of this work it was stated that she d.
in childbed about 1502, on the authority of Robert Glover, Somerset Herald,
who d. in 1588 (Coll. Top. et Gen., vol. iv, p. 364); but (i) a pardon was
granted to Henry Scrope of Bolton … and Alice, his wife, da. and h. of
Thomas, Lord Scrope of Upsall, 12 May 1509 (L. and P. Hen. VIII, vol. i, 2nd
ed., pt. i, no. 438 [2 m. 7]), and (ii) "dom. Hen. Scrope et dom. Alicia,
uxor ejus, de Bolton" were admitted to the Gild of Corpus Christi, York, in
1510 (Register of the Guild of Corpus Christi in York, Surtees Soc., vol.
lvii, p. 170). The later date of her death explains why her uncle, Henry,
Lord Scrope (of Masham or of Upsall) was not sum. to Parl. till 1511."
Thus, Henry Scrope could not have married Mabel/Margaret Dacre before 1510.
It follows that Joan Scrope, wife of John Lumley, could not have been born
before 1511. Yet, CP VIII, p. 276 goes on to say that John & Joan (Scrope)
Lumley's grandson, John Lumley was born "about 1533." Obviously, Joan being
a grandmother when she is 22 years old is not plausible. There is no
correction in vol. XIV of CP.
The Vis. of Yorkshire, 1563 & 1564 (London, 1881), p. 281 identifies Joan,
wife of John, Lord Lumley, as the daughter of Henry & Elizabeth (Percy)
Scrope, and thus a sister to the Henry Scrope who married Mabel/Margaret
Dacre. Additional proofs as to the identity of Joan Scrope would be most
appreciated. Thank you.
Hal Bradley
John Watson
Hi Hal,
I can't add much to that, only that Nicholas Harris Nicolas, in the
Scrope-Grosvenor Controversy, Vol II (1832) p 60, also states that
Joan, wife of John Lumley was the daughter of Henry Scrope and
Elizabeth Percy.
Regards,
John