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C.P. Addition: Death date of Sir Robert Marmion, 3rd Lord Marmion
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celticp...@gmail.com
Aug 7, 2018, 9:48:28 PM8/7/18
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Dear Newsgroup ~
Complete Peerage 8 (1932): 522 (sub Marmion) has a brief account of Sir Robert Marmion, 3rd Lord Marmion, son and heir of Sir John Marmion, 2nd Lord Marmion [died 1335] and his wife, Maud de Furnival. It reads as follows:
"ROBERT MARMION, LORD MARMION, son and heir. He was never summoned to Parliament. He married Maud. He died s.p. in or before 1360. His widow was living 1374." END OF QUOTE
Complete Peerage adds in footnote b on page 522 that Robert Marmion was dead in or before 1360, "when Maud, widow of Sir Robert Marmion, was holding for life of the inheritance of Joan wife of Sir John de Foleville a moiety of the manors of Wath, Hunmanby, and Langton-on-Swale (York Fines, 1347-77, Yorks Record Series, p. 75)." END OF QUOTE.
That seems like a reasonable enough statement. It appears, however, that Sir Robert Marmion was dead long before 1360. In Trinity term 1342 I find that his widow, Maud, sued his mother, Maud, widow of John Marmion, in the Court of Common Pleas regarding the manors of Hunmanby, Langton-on-Swale, and Wath, Yorkshire, which Maud widow of Robert claimed as her right. Reference: Court of Common Pleas, CP40/331, image 294f (available at http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT1/E3/CP40no331/aCP40no331fronts/IMG_0294.htm).
As stated by Complete Peerage, Sir Robert Marmion died without issue. His heirs were his two sisters, Joan (wife of John de Bernake, Knt., and John de Folville, Knt.) and Avice (wife of John Grey, K.G., 1st Lord Grey of Rotherfield).
For interest's sake, below is a list of the 17th Century New World immigrants that descend from Sir Robert Marmion's two sisters:
l. Descendants of Joan Marmion, wife of John de Bernake, Knt., and John de Folville, Knt.
William Bladen, Kenelm Cheseldine, Grace Chetwode, Muriel Gurdon, Anne & Katherine Marbury, Thomas Owsley, Richard Saltonstall, Mary Johanna Somerset, Margaret Touteville.
2. Descendants of Avice Marmion, wife of John de Grey, Knt., 1st Lord Grey of Rotherfield:
Christopher Batt, Henry, Thomas & William Batte, William Bladen, George & Nehemiah Blakiston, Thomas Booth, Thomas Bressey, Stephen Bull, Edward Carleton, Henry Corbin, Thomas Dudley, John Fenwick, John Fisher, Muriel Gurdon, Samuel & Sarah Levis, Agnes Mackworth, Roger & Thomas Mallory, Anne, Elizabeth & John Mansfield, Anne Mauleverer, Joseph & Mary Need, Philip & Thomas Nelson, Ellen Newton, Thomas Owsley, John Oxenbridge, Thomas Rudyard, Richard Saltonstall, James Taylor.
For further particulars of the Marmion and related families, please see my book, Royal Ancestry (5 volume set) published in 2013.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Complete Peerage 8 (1932): 522 (sub Marmion) has a brief account of Sir Robert Marmion, 3rd Lord Marmion, son and heir of Sir John Marmion, 2nd Lord Marmion [died 1335] and his wife, Maud de Furnival. It reads as follows:
"ROBERT MARMION, LORD MARMION, son and heir. He was never summoned to Parliament. He married Maud. He died s.p. in or before 1360. His widow was living 1374." END OF QUOTE
Complete Peerage adds in footnote b on page 522 that Robert Marmion was dead in or before 1360, "when Maud, widow of Sir Robert Marmion, was holding for life of the inheritance of Joan wife of Sir John de Foleville a moiety of the manors of Wath, Hunmanby, and Langton-on-Swale (York Fines, 1347-77, Yorks Record Series, p. 75)." END OF QUOTE.
That seems like a reasonable enough statement. It appears, however, that Sir Robert Marmion was dead long before 1360. In Trinity term 1342 I find that his widow, Maud, sued his mother, Maud, widow of John Marmion, in the Court of Common Pleas regarding the manors of Hunmanby, Langton-on-Swale, and Wath, Yorkshire, which Maud widow of Robert claimed as her right. Reference: Court of Common Pleas, CP40/331, image 294f (available at http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT1/E3/CP40no331/aCP40no331fronts/IMG_0294.htm).
As stated by Complete Peerage, Sir Robert Marmion died without issue. His heirs were his two sisters, Joan (wife of John de Bernake, Knt., and John de Folville, Knt.) and Avice (wife of John Grey, K.G., 1st Lord Grey of Rotherfield).
For interest's sake, below is a list of the 17th Century New World immigrants that descend from Sir Robert Marmion's two sisters:
l. Descendants of Joan Marmion, wife of John de Bernake, Knt., and John de Folville, Knt.
William Bladen, Kenelm Cheseldine, Grace Chetwode, Muriel Gurdon, Anne & Katherine Marbury, Thomas Owsley, Richard Saltonstall, Mary Johanna Somerset, Margaret Touteville.
2. Descendants of Avice Marmion, wife of John de Grey, Knt., 1st Lord Grey of Rotherfield:
Christopher Batt, Henry, Thomas & William Batte, William Bladen, George & Nehemiah Blakiston, Thomas Booth, Thomas Bressey, Stephen Bull, Edward Carleton, Henry Corbin, Thomas Dudley, John Fenwick, John Fisher, Muriel Gurdon, Samuel & Sarah Levis, Agnes Mackworth, Roger & Thomas Mallory, Anne, Elizabeth & John Mansfield, Anne Mauleverer, Joseph & Mary Need, Philip & Thomas Nelson, Ellen Newton, Thomas Owsley, John Oxenbridge, Thomas Rudyard, Richard Saltonstall, James Taylor.
For further particulars of the Marmion and related families, please see my book, Royal Ancestry (5 volume set) published in 2013.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Jan Wolfe
Aug 8, 2018, 9:50:05 AM8/8/18
to
On Tuesday, August 7, 2018 at 9:48:28 PM UTC-4, celticp...@gmail.com wrote:
...
There may be another 17th Century New World immigrant (Anne Revell) descendant of Joan Marmion and John de Bernake IF the Thomas Wakefield who was the spouse of Katherine Drax (https://archive.org/stream/visitationofyork00flow#page/103/mode/1up, lower right corner) was the same man as the Thomas Wakefield/Wakefeld who was the father of Isabel wife of Anker Frecheville and IF Katherine was Isabel's mother. (And If the line Maud Bernake=Ralph Cromwell, Maud Cromwell=William Fitzwilliam, Elizabeth Fitzwilliam=Robert Rockley, Robert Rockley=Agnes Duckenfield, Eleanor Rockley=Robert Drax is correct.)
...
> For interest's sake, below is a list of the 17th Century New World immigrants that descend from Sir Robert Marmion's two sisters:
>
> l. Descendants of Joan Marmion, wife of John de Bernake, Knt., and John de Folville, Knt.
>
> William Bladen, Kenelm Cheseldine, Grace Chetwode, Muriel Gurdon, Anne & Katherine Marbury, Thomas Owsley, Richard Saltonstall, Mary Johanna Somerset, Margaret Touteville.
>
> 2. Descendants of Avice Marmion, wife of John de Grey, Knt., 1st Lord Grey of Rotherfield:
>
> Christopher Batt, Henry, Thomas & William Batte, William Bladen, George & Nehemiah Blakiston, Thomas Booth, Thomas Bressey, Stephen Bull, Edward Carleton, Henry Corbin, Thomas Dudley, John Fenwick, John Fisher, Muriel Gurdon, Samuel & Sarah Levis, Agnes Mackworth, Roger & Thomas Mallory, Anne, Elizabeth & John Mansfield, Anne Mauleverer, Joseph & Mary Need, Philip & Thomas Nelson, Ellen Newton, Thomas Owsley, John Oxenbridge, Thomas Rudyard, Richard Saltonstall, James Taylor.
...
>
> l. Descendants of Joan Marmion, wife of John de Bernake, Knt., and John de Folville, Knt.
>
> William Bladen, Kenelm Cheseldine, Grace Chetwode, Muriel Gurdon, Anne & Katherine Marbury, Thomas Owsley, Richard Saltonstall, Mary Johanna Somerset, Margaret Touteville.
>
> 2. Descendants of Avice Marmion, wife of John de Grey, Knt., 1st Lord Grey of Rotherfield:
>
> Christopher Batt, Henry, Thomas & William Batte, William Bladen, George & Nehemiah Blakiston, Thomas Booth, Thomas Bressey, Stephen Bull, Edward Carleton, Henry Corbin, Thomas Dudley, John Fenwick, John Fisher, Muriel Gurdon, Samuel & Sarah Levis, Agnes Mackworth, Roger & Thomas Mallory, Anne, Elizabeth & John Mansfield, Anne Mauleverer, Joseph & Mary Need, Philip & Thomas Nelson, Ellen Newton, Thomas Owsley, John Oxenbridge, Thomas Rudyard, Richard Saltonstall, James Taylor.
> Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Thanks for posting the information about Robert Marmion.
There may be another 17th Century New World immigrant (Anne Revell) descendant of Joan Marmion and John de Bernake IF the Thomas Wakefield who was the spouse of Katherine Drax (https://archive.org/stream/visitationofyork00flow#page/103/mode/1up, lower right corner) was the same man as the Thomas Wakefield/Wakefeld who was the father of Isabel wife of Anker Frecheville and IF Katherine was Isabel's mother. (And If the line Maud Bernake=Ralph Cromwell, Maud Cromwell=William Fitzwilliam, Elizabeth Fitzwilliam=Robert Rockley, Robert Rockley=Agnes Duckenfield, Eleanor Rockley=Robert Drax is correct.)
affirm...@gmail.com
Aug 8, 2018, 4:35:03 PM8/8/18
to
Another descendant of Avice Marmion is Ralph Jopling, immigrant to Virginia, although Gary Boyd Roberts’ new edition of RD900 carries the line back through a different line to King John. This is another gateway ancestor for my family unless research proves otherwise.
Steve Riggan
Steve Riggan
celticp...@gmail.com
Aug 11, 2018, 11:48:04 PM8/11/18
to
Can you post the line of descent from Avice Marmion down to Ralph Jopling?
celticp...@gmail.com
Aug 11, 2018, 11:50:47 PM8/11/18
to
On Wednesday, August 8, 2018 at 7:50:05 AM UTC-6, Jan Wolfe wrote:
< There may be another 17th Century New World immigrant (Anne Revell)
< descendant of Joan Marmion and John de Bernake IF the Thomas Wakefield who
< was the spouse of Katherine Drax
< (https://archive.org/stream/visitationofyork00flow#page/103/mode/1up, lower < right corner) was the same man as the Thomas Wakefield/Wakefeld who was the < father of Isabel wife of Anker Frecheville and IF Katherine was Isabel's
< mother. (And If the line Maud Bernake=Ralph Cromwell, Maud Cromwell=William < Fitzwilliam, Elizabeth Fitzwilliam=Robert Rockley, Robert Rockley=Agnes
< Duckenfield, Eleanor Rockley=Robert Drax is correct.)
Dear Jan ~
< There may be another 17th Century New World immigrant (Anne Revell)
< descendant of Joan Marmion and John de Bernake IF the Thomas Wakefield who
< was the spouse of Katherine Drax
< (https://archive.org/stream/visitationofyork00flow#page/103/mode/1up, lower < right corner) was the same man as the Thomas Wakefield/Wakefeld who was the < father of Isabel wife of Anker Frecheville and IF Katherine was Isabel's
< mother. (And If the line Maud Bernake=Ralph Cromwell, Maud Cromwell=William < Fitzwilliam, Elizabeth Fitzwilliam=Robert Rockley, Robert Rockley=Agnes
< Duckenfield, Eleanor Rockley=Robert Drax is correct.)
Thanks for posting this information. Much appreciated. Hopefully someone will have additional information to confirm this line of descent.
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