Myles Phillipson - Lake District?
Martin Reboul
- not sure of exact sp.) and his family, reputed to be fairly well to do
landowners around Lake Windermere in the 16th / 17th C...? I'm keen to
know for a somewhat non-genealogical (yet extremely interesting!)
reason. He is said to have been a magistrate, and built and owned
Calgarth Hall....... still standing on the shore of the lake - that
might ring bells with some of you!
Does anyone know what became of them, if they ever existed?
Cheers
Martin
A Channing
Martin wrote,
CALGARTH, Westmorland alias Calgarth Hall, built by Philipson 1580+
Added to in 17 cent. J.M. Robinson.
There is apparently further information in "Guide to the Country Houses of
the North West". London, 1988.
In the Will dated 9 Feb 1599 of Alan Willson of Fayrebancke, Kendall, there
is a witness Mr Miles Phillipson. There is also a bequest to "Christopher
Phillipson['s] wife five pounds", but no indication if or how he was
related to Miles.
Sir Thomas Arundell (c1560-1639), 1st Baron Arunell of Wardour Castle,
Wilts (not to be confused with the Earls od Arundell). His second marriage
1 July 1608, London, was to Ann (-28 June 1637) 3rd daughter of Miles
Philipson of Crook, Westmorland (now absorbed into Cumbria and I think a
bit in Lancashire) by Barbara, sister and co-heir of Francis Sandys of
Conishead, co Lancaster. The administration of her estate was granted to
her daughter, a Catherine Eure, widow.
A past e-mail here gives them a daughter Mary Arundell who m John Somerset
leaving Charles m Catherine Baskerville leaving Maria Johanna Somerset.
ŠAdrian (Surrey, UK) <ACha...@CompuServe.Com>
NB There should _not_ be an(y) attachment(s) to this plain text message
Martin Reboul
A Channing wrote:
Thanks very much for that. So he did indeed exist - fascinating!
I'm curious about a legend associated with Calgarth Hall - a very alarming and
disturbing haunting that happened there shortly after it was built.
In fact it was so horrifying that when I first read it (as a boy) I thought it
had to be just a story - purely the product of someone's imagination.
Only when I saw Calgarth Hall signposted during a recent flying visit to the
Lakes did I realise that the place actually existed - and I looked it up again.
I'll tell more later... sorry to be so mysterious, there is a good reason. Even
so, I'm surprised that the names Calgarth and Philipson didn't ring bells with
anyone else.....?
Cheers
Martin
Chris Dickinson
The legend is described on:
http://www.nicholson.u-net.com/other1.html
(Take care - the site brings up a Comet window that, if run, puts
some Adware into your computer)
Martin Reboul
Chris Dickinson wrote:
The legend is described on:
>
> http://www.nicholson.u-net.com/other1.html
>
> (Take care - the site brings up a Comet window that, if run, puts
> some Adware into your computer)
I'll spare you the task.... thanks Chris!
since Miles Philipson's 12th great grandson wrote to me, I thought I'd
better tell him first before posting it on SGM. He didn't mind at all
(for it was John Steele Gordon!), so I will post it, though I'll send
you a "private version". I think you'll see why I thought a little
sensitivity was called for...? Here goes........
When I was a boy, I read a book of ghost stories by Elliot O'Donnel
(which caused me many sleepless nights!) including one about Calgarth
Hall and the Philipson family. It went something like this.....
Myles Philipson was an up-and-coming local landowner and gentleman,
ambitious, expansionist and apparently pretty unscrupulous. He had done
well and
wanted to build an impressive new house for himself and his family on a
lovely
spot overlooking the lake. However, the land was owned by a local
smallholder
and his wife (Kasper and Dorothy Cook), who refused all his offers and
annoyed him greatly. His solution was somewhat dishonourable and
extremely ruthless according to the legend......
He invited the (elderly I think) couple to a Christmas party, and
they dutifully attended, wishing to keep on good terms with their
powerful neighbour. He made a point of commenting on the husband's
admiration of a silver ornament (a small bowl I think) to the other
guests, and at some point Philipson either slipped it into his coat
pocket, or had it planted there. As everyone was about to leave, he made
a big show of indignant fury that the bowl was missing, and insisted all
the guests were searched before they left..... with predictable results.
As Myles happened to be the local magistrate, the result of the
ensuing trial was predictable - the Cook's were both sentenced to hang.
At this point, the woman spoke up, and issued a terrible curse to Myles
Philipson that he (AFAIR) "....would
never know any peace, would fail in everything he did, and his ancestors
would follow suit!"
They were duly hung and put in gibbets - and Calgarth Hall was soon
built on the land quickly acquired by Philipson.
The trouble started on the night of a lavish party which he threw to
open his new
home. Terrible screams rang through the house as Mrs. Philipson went to
go upstairs for some jewellery, and discovered two grinning skulls
positioned on
the bulastrade at the bottom of the staircase. She ran back into the
ballroom
in horror, and following hers, more dreadful, unnatural, blood curdling
screams came from the darkened hall, while she told the assembly what
she had seen - probably in 'a bit of a state', quite understandably.
Armed with weapons and candles, Philipson and the bolder male guests
investigated, and found that the skulls had moved to the top of the
staircase. When the (obviously pretty brave) Philipson advanced and
stabbed one with his
sword, he was shocked to find it was real - bone, not a spectre. The
party was
not a great success...
A servant (important point this!) suspected of having a grudge, was
accused
of being responsible for the mischief, and imprisoned in the cellar.
However,
during the night the skulls (which had been thrown into the courtyard by
the
furious Philipson) returned, accompanied by more unearthly screaming.
The next day he took them (apparently it was physically quite obvious
they were
the skulls of the Cooks who he had tricked and put to death) and threw
them into a
pond.....
It was no good - they reappeared unpredictably again and again,
accompanied by horrifying screaming. The doughty Myles Philipson refused
to be intimidated however (perhaps like a Tudor Spencer Hines...sorry,
shockin' bad taste!), and stayed on, though the servants gradually faded
away, as did his friends. Philipson also seemed to suffer financially -
all his investments failed, and his fortune dwindled. When he died,
about the only thing he left to his son Thomas was Calgarth Hall itself.
The manifestations apparently dwindled after the demise of Myles,
only
appearing at Christmas - the anniversary of the fateful party. But (and
here's
the geneological bit perhaps), the fortunes of the Philipson family went
from
bad to worse, and (AFAIR) the "last of their line literally died as a
beggar
by the wayside".
Well that's the story.....
A ripping yarn whatever, though I find myself greatly intrigued by
certain points.
To calm your nerves (if necessary!) I can tell you that I am quite
convinced
it was not really a "haunting". I don't know if you 'believe' in such
things -
I investigate them as a hobby, and do actually 'believe in ghosts',
having seen the
'evidence' for myself. Not this one however!
It looks as if Myles was probably the sort of man likely to make a lot
of
enemies, and in that pretty tough and lawless place (at the time), he
would
probably have had rivals a plenty I'd guess. The old couple probably had
vengeful friends too - perhaps the whole of the local populace,
including the
servants of the Philipsons?
I know it is sometimes seen as impossible, ridiculous and pointless to
try and
discover the truth behind such events after all these centuries, but to
me (as
with the Little Princes in the Tower), the fact that it's "too late" and
makes
no difference now, makes it more intriguing - no-one gets arrested, and
no-one
can really be hurt. Best of all, no-one can prove for certain that you
are wrong!
I'm sure that the clues are probably still extant - local disputes about
property perhaps, land disputes.... or some high handed actions of Myles
in
his capacity as a magistrate? Someone close to the family (or maybe in
it?)
kept up this terrifying campaign for years I suspect, for a personal
reason.
That's good enough for me, I don't need to discover who or why - you may
wish
to investigate further however?
There are some things I can't find out, macabre things such as:
Did the heads of the two victims go missing while they were 'on
display'?
Was it always exactly the same two skulls that appeared time after time
(they were put down wells, and probably blessed, buried and hidden)?
Why were the skulls never utterly destroyed by fire, or powdered (that's
what
I'd have done!)
Who got Calgarth Hall in the end??
Speaking of which, the Hall is (or was when I saw it about ten years
ago) a
'skull free' guest house nowadays, modified somewhat from Myle's
original
specification I expect. However, the Philipson coat of arms is still
emblazoned on the big fireplace apparently (though I didn't see it
myself alas, only read about it!) - the last link to the family who
built the place.
Well worth a look - I'll be going back, I didn't have time then
unfortunately.
A really beautiful spot too (Myles may have been ruthless, but he had
excellent taste!). I'd take care when mentioning "The Screaming Skulls
of Calgarth Hall" to the staff or the locals though - I got in a heck of
a lot of trouble when I asked the stuffy guide at Hatfield House about
the phantom coach which is supposed to ascend the Great Staircase!
D. Spencer Hines
If this is supposed to be Gordon speaking from his cavernous memory, he is ---- as usual ---- terminally confused ---- and sans adult editorial supervision to boot.
He appears to have ANCESTORS confused with DESCENDANTS.
I mean, I ask you, can one make a more FUNDAMENTAL genealogical error than that?
The silly chap doesn't know whether he is coming or going.
Vide infra pro risibus.
How Sweet It Is!
"For by diligent perusing the actes of great men, by considering all the circumstances of them, by composing Counseiles and Meanes with events, a man may seem to have lived in all ages, to have been present at all enterprises, to be more strongly confirmed in Judgement, to have attained a greater experience than the longest life can possibly afford."
John Hayward, __The Lives of the III Norman Kings of England, William the First, William the Second and Henry I__, London, 1612, Preface
All replies to the newsgroup please. Thank you kindly. All original material contained herein is copyright and property of the author. It may be quoted only in discussions on this forum and with an attribution to the author, unless permission is otherwise expressly given, in writing.
------------
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor.
"Martin Reboul" <martin...@virgin.net> wrote in message news:3B81097B...@virgin.net...
John Steele Gordon
"D. Spencer Hines" <D._Spence...@aya.yale.edu> wrote in message
news:Ewbg7.782$c54....@eagle.america.net...
"....would never know any peace, would fail in everything he did, and his
ancestors would follow suit!"
-------------------------
If this is supposed to be Gordon speaking from his cavernous memory, he
is ---- as usual ---- terminally confused ---- and sans adult editorial
supervision to boot.
He appears to have ANCESTORS confused with DESCENDANTS.
I mean, I ask you, can one make a more FUNDAMENTAL genealogical error than
that?
The silly chap doesn't know whether he is coming or going.
----
This was not supposed to me speaking from my memory, cavernous or otherwise.
It is the words of one of Miles Philipson's supposed victims, laying a curse
on him before being sent to the gallows. He Who Can Never Be Wrong would
have realized this had he read carefully, inwardly digested, and all that
stuff he is constantly instructing others to do but can't be bothered to do
himself.
The whole story, as a matter of fact, was news to me when Martin Reboul told
me about it over the weekend. It's a very nice addition to the ancestral
rogue's gallery, however. Right up there with Richard Rich personally
working the rack on Anne Askew.
JSG
D. Spencer Hines
| ancestors would follow suit!"
Silly, silly Gordon ---- sans adult editorial supervision and close hand-holding ---- commits egregious pratfall ---- buys a pig in a poke ---- and then tries to bluff and bluster his way out of it.
It is the DESCENDANTS of Myles Phillipson who allegedly suffered.
N. B.
| The manifestations apparently dwindled after the demise of Myles,
| only appearing at Christmas - the anniversary of the fateful party. But (and
| here's the geneological [sic] bit perhaps), the fortunes of the Philipson [sic] family
| went from bad to worse, and (AFAIR) the "last of their line literally died
| as a beggar by the wayside".
Gordon, like many native New Yorkers, has the bred-in-the-bone arrogance to think that he can simply bluff his way through any difficulty and thereby avoid egregious pratfall and subsequent embarrassment.
But he ---- along with his supine lackey, Reboul, have come a cropper on this one ---- as they have so often in the past.
Hilarious! They have BOTH confused ANCESTORS with DESCENDANTS.
Très drôle.
His pogue companion cannot even *spell* _Genealogy_ ---- much less *do* any of it.
Those who lie down with dogs will get up with fleas.
Dies Irae.
Deus Vult.
Exitus Acta Probat.
How Sweet It Is!
Veni, Vidi, Calcitravi Asinum.
Roz Griston
correspondence that was most likely written quickly..and then
permission granted to post it. wow..must make mental note to self..dot
i's, cross t's or else hines will trumpet his superiority/inferiority
complex.
erm, what university are you tenured at hines? have you ever had tenure
at a university? if so, which one and what dates?
oh and correcting a mistake..i have been informed hines has masters of
business admin. he is not an economist..care to verify that hines?
where did you get your degree?
every thing is up for scrutiny by hines..who is currently leading the
list on another troll with plantegent descent and direct/vs collateral
descent threads. pathetic!
hines..who are your GARD's? you've never answered that question. what
are you afraid of? are you a poseur? hmm, my kids say poser, must be
the common touch.
roz
-----Original Message-----
From: D. Spencer Hines [SMTP:D._Spence...@aya.yale.edu]
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 10:10 AM
To: GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: Myles Phillipson - Lake District?
"....would never know any peace, would fail in everything he did, and
his ancestors would follow suit!"
-------------------------
If this is supposed to be Gordon speaking from his cavernous memory, he
is ---- as usual ---- terminally confused ---- and sans adult editorial
supervision to boot.
He appears to have ANCESTORS confused with DESCENDANTS.
I mean, I ask you, can one make a more FUNDAMENTAL genealogical error
than that?
The silly chap doesn't know whether he is coming or going.
Vide infra pro risibus.
How Sweet It Is!
"For by diligent perusing the actes of great men, by considering all
the circumstances of them, by composing Counseiles and Meanes with
events, a man may seem to have lived in all ages, to have been present
at all enterprises, to be more strongly confirmed in Judgement, to have
attained a greater experience than the longest life can possibly
afford."
John Hayward, __The Lives of the III Norman Kings of England, William
the First, William the Second and Henry I__, London, 1612, Preface
All replies to the newsgroup please. Thank you kindly. All original
material contained herein is copyright and property of the author. It
may be quoted only in discussions on this forum and with an attribution
to the author, unless permission is otherwise expressly given, in
writing.
------------
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor.
"Martin Reboul" <martin...@virgin.net> wrote in message
| Philipson that he (AFAIR) "....would
| never know any peace, would fail in everything he did, and his
ancestors
| would follow suit!"
| The manifestations apparently dwindled after the demise of Myles,
| only
| appearing at Christmas - the anniversary of the fateful party. But
(and
| here's
| the geneological bit perhaps), the fortunes of the Philipson family
went
| from
| bad to worse, and (AFAIR) the "last of their line literally died as a
| beggar
| by the wayside".
|
Martin Reboul
D. Spencer Hines wrote:
> | "....would never know any peace, would fail in everything he did, and his
> | ancestors would follow suit!"
> -----------------------------
>
> Silly, silly Gordon ---- sans adult editorial supervision and close hand-holding ---- commits egregious pratfall ---- buys a pig in a poke ---- and then tries to bluff and bluster his way out of it.
>
> It is the DESCENDANTS of Myles Phillipson who allegedly suffered.
Quite so Spencer, quite so - I concede you that (much needed and rather unimportant) point unreservedly. I made a simple mistake in banging out the story from distant memory...... which I was relating to John, who obviously had the intelligence to see my obvious "pratfall" without need to correct or comment.
Your crowing and jeering does little good David, and does you even less credit. I am quite able to admit that I made a simple mistake - as you are not. For one who has made so many in the past that is a very, very bad thing indeed. So, what's the score, let me see....... ah, 6548 : 3 - in my favour! I think I can live with that!
Cheers
Martin
PS Good to see you follow all my postings, even though you consistently refuse to lock horns.
What did Napoleon say about 'caution'...?
John Steele Gordon
| "....would never know any peace, would fail in everything he did, and his
| ancestors would follow suit!"
-----------------------------
Silly, silly Gordon ---- sans adult editorial supervision and close
hand-holding ---- commits egregious pratfall ---- buys a pig in a poke ----
and then tries to bluff and bluster his way out of it.
It is the DESCENDANTS of Myles Phillipson who allegedly suffered.
------
Oh! I get it! He found another typo! Someone wrote "ancestors" when he
meant to write "descendants"! Call the NYTimes!
No wonder Hines's father went to his grave thinking his son was a jerk. He
was right.
JSG
D. Spencer Hines
Gordon thinks that writing and defending ANCESTORS for DESCENDANTS in a Genealogical Newsgroup/List ---- is a "typo".
Yep, there's that New York arrogance in spades.
He's trying to bluff and bluster his way out of his gaffe ---- while his pogue companion in perfidy ---- Reboul, has admitted that he shafted the pooch.
Gordon is also projecting his difficulties with his own Father, who was a Princeton graduate, a War Hero and who apparently had little time for Gordon [smart move] ---- onto Hines.
Yes, Gordon does indeed need to pay more frequent visits to his shrink ---- he's backsliding.
Hines has had an excellent relationship with both his mother and father and loves them dearly.
Deus Vult.
Exitus Acta Probat.
Martin Reboul
D. Spencer Hines wrote:
> Hilarious!
As he always does.....
> Gordon thinks that writing and defending ANCESTORS for DESCENDANTS in a Genealogical Newsgroup/List ---- is a "typo".
>
> Yep, there's that New York arrogance in spades.
Well off my Manor I'm afraid, but as I said before, I wrote it..... are you denses or something david?
> He's trying to bluff and bluster his way out of his gaffe ---- while his pogue companion in perfidy ---- Reboul, has admitted that he shafted the pooch.
'Pooch shafting' is not one of my vices as you well know Spencey. Making mistakes is quite okay, especially when admitted and any resulting confusion is quickly cleared up - thanks for that.
> Gordon is also projecting his difficulties with his own Father, who was a Princeton graduate, a War Hero and who apparently had little time for Gordon [smart move] ---- onto Hines.
>
> Yes, Gordon does indeed need to pay more frequent visits to his shrink ---- he's backsliding.
>
> Hines has had an excellent relationship with both his mother and father and loves them dearly.
I'll refrain from the obvious comment on that.........
Martin