Complete Peerage Addition/Correction: Robert de Scales, 3rd Lord Scales, and his wife, Katherine de Ufford
Douglas Richardson
Complete Peerage, 11 (1949): 501-502 (sub Scales) has a good account
of Robert de Scales, 3rd Lord Scales, who died in 1369. Regarding his
marriage to Katherine de Ufford, the following information is
provided:
"He married before 6 May 1335 Catherine, sister and coh. of William,
2nd Earl of Suffolk, daughter of Robert (de Ufford), 1st Earl of
Suffolk, by Margaret, sister of Sir John de Norwich." END OF QUOTE.
The source given for the marriage date is Chester Waters, a secondary
source. An entry in the Patent Rolls, however, indicates that Robert
de Scales married his wife, Katherine, sometime before 2 April 1335,
as on that date Robert had license from the king to enfeoff William de
Lalleford, parson of the church of Rivenhall, Essex, and Thomas de
Briston, of the manor of Newsells (in Barkway), Hertfordshire, and for
them to re-grant it to him, Katherine his wife and heirs [Reference:
Calendar of Patent Rolls, 1334-1338 (1895): 89].
The Patent Rolls item may be viewed at the following weblink:
http://sdrc.lib.uiowa.edu/patentrolls/e3v3/body/Edward3vol3page0089.pdf
Next item: Katherine de Ufford, wife of Robert de Scales, was not co-
heiress of her brother, William de Ufford, K.G., 2nd Earl of Suffolk,
as stated by Complete Peerage. Rather, on Earl William's death in
1382, his heirs included his three nephews, among them Roger de
Scales, Knt., 4th Lord Scales, the son of his sister, Katherine.
It should also be mentioned that Margaret de Norwich, the mother of
Katherine de Ufford, is known to have been the daughter of Walter de
Norwich, Knt., Chief Baron of the Exchequer, Treasurer of England.
For interest's sake, the following is a list of the numerous 17th
Century immigrants that descend from Robert de Scales, 3rd Lord
Scales, and his wife, Katherine de Ufford. For the links down to the
various immigrants, please see my book, Magna Carta Ancestry (2005),
which is available for purchase privately through me.
William Bladen, Thomas Booth, Nathaniel Burrough, Elizabeth Butler,
Charles Calvert, Kenelm Cheseldine, Grace Chetwode, William Clopton,
Francis Dade, Anne Derehaugh, Henry Fleete, Muriel Gurdon, Anne
Humphrey, Edmund Jennings, Edmund, Edward, Richard, & Matthew Kempe,
Anne & Katherine Marbury, Thomas Owsley, Herbert Pelham, Henry &
William Randolph, Mary Johanna Somerset, Margaret Tyndall, Jemima
Waldegrave, John West, Hawte Wyatt.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
WJhonson
Next item: Katherine de Ufford, wife of Robert de Scales, was not co-
heiress of her brother, William de Ufford, K.G., 2nd Earl of Suffolk,
as stated by Complete Peerage. Rather, on Earl William's death in
1382, his heirs included his three nephews, among them Roger de
Scales, Knt., 4th Lord Scales, the son of his sister, Katherine. >>
==================
What is the proof of who his heirs were?
Keeping in mind that the list of heirs is always dependent on the manner in which title is conveyed and how the reversions are specified. Heirs to a dignity might be male-line heirs, while heirs to a particular property could be heirs by reversion, so a statement like this correcting CP needs a citation.
Will Johnson
t...@clearwire.net
It is all semantic anyhow. Catherine was the coheiress through whom
the right passed to Roger, Lord Scales. That this 'enthusiastic
poster' chooses to use a more restrictive definition of "heiress" than
the editors and then call it a 'correction', well, that speaks for
itself. When you remove this quibble and the information found in the
appropriate article in CP, but just not repeated in this particular
less-relevant article, the whole post amounts to pushing the 'before'
limit for the marriage back 34 days, which hardly seems worth the
fanfare.
taf
John P. Ravilious
In catching up on recent posts, I noted your post to this thread
listing the descendants of Robert de Scales and Katherine de Ufford
(or d'Ufford). My records indicate that the emigrant Jane Lowe is
also a descendant.
Following is the descent as I currently show it. I am aware of
some uncertainty as to whether an additional generation should be
presented in the Howard family (chronologically improbable), but have
seen no evidence to date that disproves what is shown below.
Should you or anyone have evidence that the following is in
error, that information (and any relevant citation) would be greatly
appreciated.
Cheers,
John
1 Robert de Scales
----------------------------------------
Death: 13 Aug 1369[1]
Father: Robert de Scales (-1324)
Mother: Egeline de Courtenay
3rd Lord Scales
Spouse: Catherine D'Ufford
Father: Robert D'Ufford (1298-1369)
Mother: Margaret de Norwich
Marr: bef 6 May 1335[1]
Children: Margaret (->1416)
Roger
1.1 Margaret de Scales[2]
----------------------------------------
Death: aft 8 May 1416[3]
identified as elder daughter of 3rd Lord Scales, and coheiress (in her
issue) of Elizabeth, Baroness Scales (d. 2 Sept 1473), wife of Sir
Anthony Wydeville, Lord Scales and Earl Rivers[1]
Spouse: Sir Robert Howard[2]
Birth: ca 1342[3]
Death: 3 Jul 1388
Father: John Howard (->1388)
Mother: Alice de Boys (-1372)
Children: Sir John Howard(<1342-1436)
Margaret (-1433)
1.1.1 Margaret Howard[2]
----------------------------------------
Death: 25 Mar 14331
Burial: Blackfriar's, Norwich
held by Roskell to have been the sister (not daughter) of Sir John
Howard
(strong probability given the tight chronology, as shown). Cf.
Douglas Richardson[3]
Blomefield shows her as daughter of the son John Howard, by Margaret
de Plaiz:
'... Margaret Howard, his only Daughter by Plais, who was then
married to Sir Constantine Clifton, Knt.'[4]
Spouse: Constantine de Clifton, Lord Clifton[5]
Birth: ca 1372[1]
Death: 1395[2],[1]
Father: John de Clifton (ca1353-1388)
Mother: Elizabeth Cromwell (-ca1393)
Marr: aft Feb 1389[1]
Children: Elizabeth (ca1392-<1461)
John, 3rd Lord Clifton (-<1447)
1.1.1.1 Elizabeth Clifton[5]
----------------------------------------
Birth: ca 1392
Death: bef 8 Dec 1461[3]
heiress of her brother John, Lord Clifton1
coheir [in her issue] of cousin Maud Stanhope [heiress of Cromwell],
13 Hen VII [1498] [Testa. Ebor II:39-41[6]]
Spouse: Sir John Knyvett[5]
Death: 9 Nov 1445[5],[3]
Father: John Knyvett (ca1358-1418)
Mother: Joan de Botetourt (-1417)
Marr: bef 1412[3]
Children: John (-1490)
Margaret (-1458)
Joan
1.1.1.1.1 John Knyvett[5]
----------------------------------------
Death: 1 Jan 1490[3]
Esq., of Buckenham, Norfolk, Weldon, co. Northants., Mendlesham,
Suffolk & c.[7]
acquired Buckenham as heir of Clifton, 1460
Spouse: Alice Lynne
Father: William Lynne
Children: William (ca1440-1515)
Elizabeth
Margery
Christine
1.1.1.1.1.1 William Knyvett
----------------------------------------
Birth: ca 1440[3]
Death: 2 Dec 1515[7]
Knt., of Buckenham, Norfolk
M.P. and Sheriff of Norfolk and Suffolk[7]
coheir of cousin Maud Stanhope [heiress of Cromwell], 13 Hen VII
[1498] [Testa. Ebor II:39-41[6]]
dispossessed by Richard III, 1483; restored to his lands after Battle
of Bosworth, 1485
Spouse: Alice Grey
Death: 4 Apr 1474[7]
Father: John Grey (-1447)
Mother: Elizabeth
Children: Sir Edmund
Bennett
Anne
Elizabeth
1.1.1.1.1.1.1 Anne Knyvett[8]
----------------------------------------
also called Agnes in will of her husband ('Agnes my wif')[9]
executor of the will of her husband
Genealogics #I00326759[10]
Spouse: John Thwaites, of Thwaites and
Denton, co. Yorks.[8],[9]
Death: aft 7 Jan 1503[9]
Father: Thomas Thwaites
Mother: Alice de la Hay (-1485)
Children: Thomas (dvp -<1503)
Edward
Anthony Thwaites, of Thwaites and
Denton
Christopher
Margaret
Thomasine
Elizabeth
Ellen
1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 Christopher Thwaites[8]
----------------------------------------
of Tolston and Clifford, co. Yorks.
younger son
will of John Thwaites, proved 7 May 1507:
' I will my son Cristofer shall have my landes in the townys of
Tolston and Clifford in the countie of Yorke.'[9]
GENEALOGICS I00326760[10]
Spouse: Joan[8]
Children: William
1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 William Thwaites[8]
----------------------------------------
GENEALOGICS I00052426 [10]
Spouse: Alice Garneys[8]
Father: John Garneys (-1524)
Mother: Elizabeth Sulyard (-1539)
Children: Winifred
1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 Winifred Thwaites[8]
----------------------------------------
she m. 1stly (as 2nd wife) Sir George Pierrepont[11],
2ndly Gervase Clifton[12]
cf. Richardson, p. 583[12]
Spouse: Sir George Pierrepont, of
Holmes-Pierrepont, co. Notts.
Birth: 16 Jul 1510[11]
Death: 21 Mar 1564[11]
Father: William Pierrepont (-1517)
Mother: Joan Empson
Marr: 20 Nov 1544[11]
Children: Isabella
Henry (-1615)
Gervase
William
Anne
1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 Isabella Pierrepont[13]
----------------------------------------
1st wife of Sir John Harpur[11]
cf. Richardson, p. 583[12]
Spouse: Sir John Harpur
Birth: ca 1546[11]
Death: 8 Oct 1622[13],[11]
Father: Richard Harpur (-1573)
Mother: Jane Finderne
Marr: 1567[11]
Children: Jane
Richard
John
Henry
Dorothea
1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 Jane Harpur
----------------------------------------
cf. Richardson, pp. 583-4[12]
Spouse: Patrick Lowe
Birth: ca 1561[13],[14]
Death: aft 17 Oct 1617[13],[15]
Father: Jasper Lowe (-1582)
Mother: Dorothy Sacheverell
Children: Vincent (1594->1640)
Isabel
1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 Vincent Lowe
----------------------------------------
Birth: 1594[7]
Death: aft 1640[7]
Esq., of Denby, co. Derby[7]
Spouse: Anne Cavendish
Father: Henry Cavendish (1550-1616)
Mother: NN
Children: Grace (1614-)
John (1616-1659)
Anne (1618-)
Beth (1626-)
Catherine (1627-)
Henry (1628-)
Dorothy (1630-)
Vincent (1632-)
Jane (1633-1700)
Nicholas (1639-)
1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1a Jane Lowe*
----------------------------------------
Birth: 14 Oct 1633, Denby, co. Derby[13]
Death: 19 Jan 1700, Middlesex, England[7]
Burial: St. Giles-in-the-Field church, Middlesex
Occ: Lady Baltimore
she m. 1stly Henry Sewall,
2ndly (as 2nd wife) Charles Calvert,
Lord Baltimore[7];[13];[16].
Raised grandson Notley Rozer after death of his father in 1681[17](son
Nicholas Sewall was guardian of Notley Rozer per indenture of
1682[18])
d. intestate, 19 Jan 1700/01 [Barnes, p.21[9] ]
Spouse: Henry Sewall [1st husband]
Birth: aft 1622[13]
Death: bef 17 Apr 1665[13]
Father: Richard Sewall (-<1638)
Mother: Mary Dugdale (1597-ca1648)
Marr: bef 1650, England[20]
Children: Anne (ca1651-1693)
Elizabeth (<1651-<1710)
Nicholas (ca1655-1737)
Mary (1658-1693)
Jane
1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1b Jane Lowe* (See above)
----------------------------------------
Spouse: Charles Calvert [2nd husband]
Birth: 27 Aug 163721
Death: 21 Feb 171421
Father: Cecil Calvert (-1675)
Mother: Anne Arundel
Marr: ca 16667
Children: Clare (1670-)
Anne (1673-1731)
Benedict Leonard (1678-1715)
1. G. E. Cokayne, "The Complete Peerage," 1910 - [microprint,
1982 (Alan Sutton) ], The Complete Peerage of England Scotland Ireland
Great Britain and the United Kingdom.
2. Peter Knevitt, "Elizabeth de Clifton, wife of Sir John Knyvet,"
email message, RootsWeb SGM, 20 Jan 2001, cites CP III 308, and AR7.
3. Douglas Richardson, "Plantagenet," Jan 20, 2003, email
royala...@msn.com.
4. Robert A. Battle, "The Cornwall Family: Possible Relatives of the
Early Howards,"
http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/b/a/t/Robert-A-Battle/
extracted 2 January, 2002, sources cited: Calendar of Patent Rolls
(CPR), Blomefield.
5. Frederick L. Weis, Th. D., "The Magna Carta Sureties, 1215,"
Baltimore: Gen Pub Co., 5th ed., 1997 (W. L. Sheppard Jr & David
Faris).
6. "Testamenta Eboracensia [A Selection of Wills from the Registry at
York]," The Surtees Society, Durham: Andrews & Co., 1855 - Part II
(Vol. 30, Surtees Society publications), pp. 11-12 will of Peter de la
Hay, proved 11 Apr 1431, URL http://www.uiowa.edu/~c030149a/northern/willsatyorktext.pdf
7. David Faris, "Plantagenet Ancestry of Seventeenth-Century
Colonists," Boston: New England Historic Genealogical Society, 1999,
(2nd edition, 1999).
8. Gary Boyd Roberts, "The Royal Descents of 500 Immigrants to the
American Colonies," Baltimore: Genealogical Pub. Co., 1993.
9. "Nine Hundred Years of Thweatt Bloodline Family History," Silas
Allen Thweatt, Alhambra: Alhambra Review Printing Co., 1959, pp. 20
(will of Alice de la Hay) et seq.
10. "Genealogics," website by Leo van de Pas,
http://www.genealogics.org
11. Douglas Richardson, "New PA Line of Descent - Edward I to Jane
Lowe," Dec 24, 2001, direct to John Ravilious (the...@aol.com), reply
to proposed descent from Edward I via Thomas, Lord Clifford to Melton,
& Jane Lowe.
12. Douglas Richardson, "Plantagenet Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and
Medieval Families," Baltimore: Genealogical Publishing Company, 2004.
13. Robert W. Barnes, "British Roots of Maryland Families," Baltimore:
Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., 1999.
14. "The Churches of Derbyshire," Charles Cox, pp. 248-254 provided by
Rosie Bevan.
15. "Public Record Office Archives," : wills proved in the Prerogative
Court of Canterbury, http://www.documentsonline.pro.gov.uk/
16. "Charles Calvert; article in American National Biography," David
W. Jordan (J. Garraty, M. Carnes, gen editors), Oxford Univ. Press,
1999, Vol. 4, pp. 242-244.
17. Nettie Leitch Major, "Rozer - Young - Carroll - Brent: Colonial
Marylanders "Lost" by the Formation of the District of Columbia,"
Maryland Genealogical Society Bulletin, Vol. 19, No. 4, Fall, 1978 [as
corrected, Winter 1979 -Vol. 20, No. 1, p. 93], pp. 293 et seq.
18. Effie Gwynn Bowie, "Across the Years in Prince George's County,"
Richmond: Garrett and Massie, Inc., 1916.
19. "Robert Barnes," "JANE LOWE SEWALL CALVERT: GOVERNOR'S LADY AND
LAND BARONESS ", The Archivist's Bulldog, vol. 13, No. 12 (June 28,
1999) p. 2, The Archivist's Bulldog - Newsletter of the Maryland State
Archives, http://www.mdarchives.state.md.us/msa/refserv/bulldog/bull99/bull13-12/html/bull13-12.html#sewall
20. Debbie Shields, "Shields Genealogy," www.debbieshields.com/genealogy/tree12.html,
Sept 16, 2000.
21. David Faris, "Plantagenet Ancestry of 17th Century Colonists,"
Baltimore: the Genealogical Pub. Company, 1st ed.