Simon de Felbrigg
Bill Prokasy
Helena. Is there any evidence for additional children to this couple?
I am particularly interested to learn if they had sons from whom Thomas
Felbrigge (1545/1550-1621) descended. Moriarty (NEHGR 108:252-258)
discussed this and indicated at the time that no wills had been
discovered that would provide an ancestry for Thomas.
I'd appreciate any information that might add to what was reported by
Moriarty.
Bill
--
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Rafal T. Prinke
Bill Prokasy <wpro...@arches.uga.edu> wrote:
> Simon de Felbrigg (1366-1422) and his wife Margaret had a daughter,
> Helena. Is there any evidence for additional children to this couple?
I was researching him and his Silesian wife last summer (receiving
great help in this from Brice Clagett) and ascertained that
the couple had 3 daughters:
- Elizabeth (probably the eldest), m. Sir Miles Stapleton, Knt,
d. 1466 [ m. 2) Catherine de la Pole]
- the said Alena (or Alana), d. 1458, m. 1) Sir William Tyndale
of Deene; m. 2) bef 1432 Sir Thomas Wauton (Waweton)
- Anne, a nun in Brusyard
They had no sons (at least no surviving sons).
> I am particularly interested to learn if they had sons from whom Thomas
> Felbrigge (1545/1550-1621) descended. Moriarty (NEHGR 108:252-258)
> discussed this and indicated at the time that no wills had been
> discovered that would provide an ancestry for Thomas.
Sir Simon's cousin was Sir George Felbrigg, d. 1400, bur. Playford,
Suffolk (actively involved in arranging the Bohemian marriage
of king Richard), who m. 1) Amy, dau of Roger of Hales,
m. 2) Margery, dau and coheiress of Sir John of Aspale
They had 2 sons: Sir John Felbrigg (who m. Margaret Waldegrave and
had a dau Margery, who m. Thomas Sampson) and Richard Felbrigg.
BTW: I wrote an article with Andrzej Sikorski (who sometimes
also appears here) and it appeared in the respectable Polish
journal of medieval history _Roczniki Historyczne_ (Historical
Annals), vol. 67 (2001), p. 107-130. Our conclusion is that
Margaret Felbrigg was indeed a daughter of Przemyslaw Noszak
(not Nosak!), duke of Cieszyn, and his wife Eufemia of Masovia.
Her descendant was Margaret Tyndal (c1591-1647), who
m. (as his 3rd wife) John Winthrop (1587-1649), the Governor
of Massachusetts and one of the gateways to royalty for Americans.
One of the ancestors of both Margarets was the mysterious
Viola of Bulgaria (1204-1251), wife of Kazimierz, duke
of Opole/Oppeln (1178-1229). Nothing is known about her
parentage - but might be promising.
Best regards,
Rafal
JG
was the niece of Charles IV, Holy Roman Emperor, & granddaughter of John of
Bohemia, King of Bohemia & Duke of Luxemburg...
Rafal, can you tell me, was Weis wrong or do the parents you suggest fit in
to the Weis reference somehow?
Thanx
Jay Garner
http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/g/a/r/J-H-Garner/index.html
"Rafal T. Prinke" <raf...@amu.edu.pl> wrote in message
news:3C7C2178...@amu.edu.pl...
Rafal T. Prinke
"JG" <jgar...@kc.rr.com> wrote:
> Weis in "Magna Charta Sureties 1215" says that Sir Simon's wife, Margaret,
> was the niece of Charles IV, Holy Roman Emperor, & granddaughter of John of
> Bohemia, King of Bohemia & Duke of Luxemburg...
>
> Rafal, can you tell me, was Weis wrong or do the parents you suggest fit in
> to the Weis reference somehow?
Weis (or rather his sources) was wrong. The immediate ancestors
of Margaret are as listed below. The cause of the misunderstanding
in earlier publications was the fact that Vaclav IV called Przemyslaw
his "brother-in-law" in the letters sent to Richard II when arranging
that king's marriage with his sister ("Illustris Przemislai Ducis
Teschinensis, Principis & Sororii nostri carissimi"). The thing is,
however, that such addressing was not confined to genuine relationship
but was also used for showing royal grace and attitude towards
the person, especially in the diplomatic context. In the same way
Vaclav and Richard call themselves brothers ("Serenissimo fratre
nostro"), and Richard calls his wife Anna "sister of his brother"
("Fratris nostri Sororem"). On the other hand, to show his
unfavourable attitude towards Robert II of Scotland, Richard II
calls him *only* a relative ("consanguineum nostrum"). There are many
such examples to be found in the correspondence and documents
of medieval monarchs. For example, Peter IV of Aragon calls
Charles II of Navarre "illustris regis Navarre sororii nostri
carissimi tanquam fratris" - even though there was no close
(was there any?) relationship between them.
And here comes the ancestry (from Jasinski and Dworzaczek):
1. Margaret, lady Felbrigg
2. Przemyslaw Noszak, d. of Cieszyn, b. 1332/1336, d. 1410
3. Elzbieta of Bytom and Kozielsk, b. 1347/1350, d. aft 1373
4. Kazimierz I, d. of Cieszyn, d. 1358
5. Eufemia of Mazovia, b. abt 1310, d. aft 1373
6. Boleslaw, d. of Bytom and Kozielsk, b. abt 1332, d. 1354/1355
7. Malgorzata of Sternberk, d. aft 1364
8. Mieszko I, d. of Cieszyn, b. 1252/1256, d. 1314/1315
9. unknown, d. bef 1303
10. Trojden I, d. of Sochaczew and Czersk, b. 1284/1286, d. 1341
11. Maria, dau of Jurij I, king of Halicz, b. bef 1293, d. 1341
12. Wladyslaw, d. of Bytom and Kozielsk, b. 1277/1283, d. 1351/1352
13. Ludgarda of Mecklemburg, dau of Przybyslaw II, d. 1362/1369
14. Jaroslav of Sternberk
15. unknown
Viola of Bulgaria (1204-1251) was the grandmother of (8).
Best regards,
Rafal