Katherine Talbot, wife of Ralph Parles, and her daughter, Margery Parles, wife of John Hervey and William Argentine
Douglas Richardson
Roskell, House of Commons 1386–1421 4 (1992): 17–19 includes a good
biography of Ralph Parles, Esq. (1335/6-1420), of Shutlanger (in Stoke
Bruerne), Northamptonshire, which individual was Knight of the Shire
for Northamptonshire in 1404 and 1406, as well as Sheriff of
Northamptonshire in 1388–1389, 1403, 1408–1409, 1412–1413. Regarding
his first marriage, Roskell states the following:
"His first marriage, to Joan, the daughter of John Talbot of Richard's
Castle and granddaughter of 1st Lord Grey of Ruthin, shows, even so,
that he was not without influence among the upper ranks of land-owning
society."
Roskell does not appear to cite his source for this marriage in his
footnotes for his account of Ralph Parles, but he does cite the
correct sources elsewhere in the biography of Ralph Parles' son-in-
law, John Hervey, Esq., of Thurleigh, Bedfordshire [see Roskell, House
of Commons 1386–1421, 3 (1992): 358–360 (biog. of John Hervy)].
The sources which discuss the Parles-Talbot marriage are as follows:
1. Proceedings of the Bury & West Suffolk Archæological Institute 2
(1859): 293–425.
2. Hervey, Dictionary of Herveys (1924): 117–134.
In the first source, the author sets forth the evidence for the Parles-
Talbot marriage. However, he specifically states on page 403 that the
given name of Ralph Parles' wife, Joan, is purely a guess. Yet, we
are not told that by Roskell. The page in question in which this
admission is made can be found at the following weblink:
Checking other contemporary sources, I've determined that Ralph
Parles' first wife was actually named Katherine, not Joan. This is
proven by a fine dated 20 January 1364, by which various properties in
in Stoke Bruerne, Shutlanger (in Stoke Bruerne), Shaw (in Stoke
Bruerne), and Alderton, Northamptonshire were settled on Ralph and his
wife, Katherine, and the heirs of Ralph.
A transcript of the actual fine can be found at the following weblink,
courtesy of Chris Phillips:
http://www.medievalgenealogy.org.uk/fines/abstracts/CP_25_1_178_82.shtml#538
Thus, it would appear that Ralph Parles' first wife was Katherine
Talbot, not Joan Talbot, she being a daughter of John Talbot, Knt., of
Richard's Castle, Herefordshire, by his wife, Juliane, daughter of
Roger de Grey, Knt., 1st Lord Grey of Ruthin. Katherine Talbot's
mother's descent from Geoffrey Plantagenet can be found in my book,
Plantagenet Ancestry (2004).
Ralph Parles, Esq., and his wife, Katherine Talbot, had one daughter,
Margery Parles, who married (1st) John Hervey, Esq., of Thurleigh,
Bedfordshire, and (2nd) William Argentine, Knt., of Halesworth,
Suffolk and Great Wymondley, Hertfordshire. Margery Parles had four
known children by her Hervey marriage, but none by her Argentine
marriage. There are many modern descendants of the Hervey marriage.
While Roskell got the given name of Ralph Parles' first wife wrong, in
his account elsewhere of John Hervey, he supplies additional new
evidence to support the stated Parles-Talbot connection. According
to Roskell, John Hervey identified himself as being "a member of Lord
Grey's affinity" in 1408, during his testimony in the celebrated
dispute between Lord Grey and Edward, Lord Hastings. This affinity
was created by John Hervey's wife, Margery Parles, being a near cousin
to Reynold Grey, Knt., Lord of Hastings, Wexford, and Ruthin. The
relationship runs as follows:
1. Roger de Grey, Knt., 1st Lord Grey of Ruthin, married Elizabeth
Hastings.
2. Juliane de Grey, married John Talbot, Knt., of Richard's Castle,
Herefordshire.
3. Katherine Talbot, married before 1364 Ralph Parles, Esq., of of
Shutlanger (in Stoke Bruerne), Northamptonshire.
4. Margery Parles, married c.1380 John Hervey, Esq., of Thurleigh,
Bedfordshire.
1. Roger de Grey, Knt., 1st Lord Grey of Ruthin, married Elizabeth
Hastings.
2. Reynold de Grey, Knt., 2nd Lord Grey of Ruthin, married Eleanor le
Strange.
3. Reynold Grey, Knt., died 1440, 3rd Lord Grey of Ruthin, afterwards
Lord of Hastings, Wexford, and Ruthin.
For interest's sake, I've provided below an account of Ralph Parles,
Esq., and of his daughter, Margery (Parles) Hervey below. I've cited
my sources in the usual "puddle of references" which format is
employed by the industry standard, Oxford Dictionary of National
Biography (ODNB). If anyone on the newsgroup descends from the Hervey
family, I'd appreciate hearing from them here on the newsgroup.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
+ + + + + + + + + + + +
Ralph Parles, Esq., and his wife, Katherine Talbot, and their
daughter, Margery Parles
I. KATHERINE TALBOT, married (as his 1st wife) before 20 Jan. 1364
(date of fine) RALPH PARLES, Esq., of Shutlanger (in Stoke Bruerne),
Watford, and Byfield, Northamptonshire, Sheriff of Northamptonshire,
1388–1389, 1403, 1408–1409, 1412–1413, justice of the peace for
Northamptonshire, 1397–1412, Escheator of Northamptonshire, 1406–1407,
Verderer of the Forest of Whittlewood, Northamptonshire, son and heir
of Walter Parles, of Watford and Byfield, Northamptonshire, Knight of
the Shire for Northamptonshire, Sheriff of Northamptonshire. He was
born about 1335–1336. They had one daughter, Margery. In 1364 John
Harewedon sold nine messuages, two mills, eleven virgates of land,
etc. in Stoke Bruerne, Shutlanger (in Stoke Bruerne), Shaw (in Stoke
Bruerne), and Alderton, Northamptonshire to Ralph and his wife,
Katherine, and the heirs of Ralph for 200 marks of silver. He married
(2nd) before 20 Jan. 1381 (date of fine) ELIZABETH _____. They had
one son, Walter. In 1380 he was serving abroad in the retinue of
Thomas of Woodstock, Earl of Buckingham. In 1381 John son of Simon de
Daventry conveyed to Ralph and his wife, Elizabeth, eleven messuages,
one toft, and eleven virgates of land in Murcott (in Long Buckby),
Northamptonshire for 200 marks of silver. He married (3rd) ALICE
_____. They had one son, Ralph. In 1411 he and his wife, Alice, and
their son, Ralph, and his wife, Alice, were granted a license for the
private celebration of divine services in the manor of Shutlanger (in
Stoke Bruerne), Northamptonshire for three years. In 1415 Ralph and
his wife, Alice, re-settled their estate at Shutlanger (in Stoke
Bruerne), Northamptonshire. In 1417 he and his son, Walter, attempted
unsuccessfully to establish rights of common on the manor of Grafton
Regis, Northamptonshire. In October 1420 he was licensed to employ a
chaplain to celebrate mass privately. RALPH PARLES, Esq., died
shortly before 16 Nov. 1420.
References:
Proceedings of the Bury & West Suffolk Archæological Institute 2
(1859): 293–425. Wigram, Chronicles of the Abbey of Elstow (1885)
(Parles arms: Per pale indented or and azure). Repingdon, Reg. of
Philip Repingdon 1 (Lincoln Rec. Soc. 57) (1963): 200. Roskell, House
of Commons 1386–1421 4 (1992): 17–19 (biog. of Ralph Parles). VCH
Northampton 5 (2002): 388. PRO Documents, Feet of Fines, CP
25/1/178/82, number 538; CP 25/1/178/86, number 27; CP 25/1/179/91,
number 52; CP 25/1/179/91, number 53; CP 25/1/179/92, number 4
(abstract of fines available online at http:// www.medievalgenealogy.org.uk/fines/search.php).
Child of Katherine Talbot, by Ralph Parles, Esq.:
i. MARGERY PARLES, married (1st) JOHN HERVEY, Esq., of Thurleigh,
Colworth, Felmersham, Risely, and Wotton, Bedfordshire, Knight of the
Shire for Bedfordshire, 1386, son and heir of John Hervey, of
Thurleigh, Bedfordshire, by his wife, Joan. He was born about 1353.
They had three sons, John, Esq., Richard, clerk, and Thomas, and one
daughter, Joan (wife of Guy Corbet). In 1394 he was granted the manor
of Kempston, Bedfordshire for life by Reynold Grey, Knt., Lord of
Hastings, Wexford, and Ruthin. JOHN HERVEY, Esq., was living in May
1408, but died before Feb. 1412, and was buried in Thurleigh,
Bedfordshire. His widow, Margery, married (2nd) (as his 3rd wife)
WILLIAM ARGENTINE, Knt., of Halesworth, Suffolk and Great Wymondley,
Hertfordshire, Knight of the Shire for Suffolk, 1393, 1395, 1399,
Sheriff of Norfolk & Suffolk, 1393–1394, Sheriff of Suffolk, 1401,
illegitimate son of John Argentine, Knt., of Halesworth, Suffolk and
Great Wymondley, Hertfordshire. He was born about 1350. They had no
issue. SIR WILLIAM ARGENTINE died 22 Jan. (or 8 Feb.) 1419, and was
buried at Halesworth, Suffolk. He left a will dated 28 March 1417,
proved 14 May 1419. Following her husband’s death, Margery obtained
provisional custody of William’s grandson and heir, John Argentine,
but being unable to reach an agreement with the treasurer over
financial terms, the wardship was granted instead to John Hotoft and
two others. Eventually Margery eventually regained control of the
inheritance, for after young John’s death which occurred shortly
before Feb. 1423, she sold the wardship of his sisters, Elizabeth and
Joan, to William Allington, of Horseheath. Margery died 28 Sept.
1427, and was buried in Elstow Priory, Bedfordshire. She left a will
dated 26 April 1427, proved 26 October 1427.
References: Proceedings of the Bury & West Suffolk Archæological
Institute 2 (1859): 293–425. Brydges, Collins’ Peerage of England 4
(1812): 139–161 (re. Hervey family). Topographer & Genealogist 1
(1846): 70–71. Harvey et al., Vis. of Bedfordshire 1566, 1582, 1634 &
1669 (H.S.P. 19) (1884): 36 (1566 Vis.) (Hervy pedigree) (Hervy arms:
Gules, on a bend argent three trefoils slipped vert). Wigram,
Chronicles of the Abbey of Elstow (1885). VCH Bedford 3 (1912): 106–
107, 279–284. Hervey, Dictionary of Herveys (1924): 117–134.
Chichele, Reg. of Henry Chichele 2 (Canterbury & York Soc. 42) (1937):
369 (will of Margery Argentine). Harvey, Vis. of Suffolk 1561 1
(H.S.P. n.s. 2) (1981): 67–72 (Hevey pedigree) (Hervey arms: Gules on
a bend Argent three trefoils slipped Vert). Roskell, House of Commons
1386–1421 2 (1992): 50–52 (biog. of Sir William Argentine); 3 (1992):
358–360 (biog. of John Hervy).