Complete Peerage Additions/Corrections: Margaret Bourgchier, Lady Bryan
Douglas Richardson
Conplete Peerage, 2 (1912): 363 (sub Bryan) has a rather limited
account of Lady Margaret Bourgchier, wife of Sir Francis Bryan, who
was Governess to both Queens Mary I and Elizabeth I. According to her
own account, Lady Bryan was made a Baroness by the king. Complete
Peerage indicates that Margaret Bourgchier had only one marriage to
Sir Francis Bryan. However, my research indicates that she was
actually married three times: (1) John Sandys (or Sandes); (2) Sir
Thomas Bryan; and (3) David [de la ] Zouche. Complete Peerage alleges
that Lady Bryan died in 1551/2, but my research indicates she died
about 1554.
Margaret Bourgchier had one child by her Sandys marriage, but it
appears that this child died in infancy. Complete Peerage indicates
that Margaret Bourgchier had one son and heir, Sir Francis Bryan, by
her Bryan marriage. Actually Lady Bryan had a total of five children
by her marriage to Sir Francis Bryan, namely two sons, Thomas and
Francis, Knt., and three daughters, Margaret (wife of Henry Guildford,
K.G.), Anne, and Elizabeth (wife of Nicholas Carew, K.G.).
Needless to say, the Complete Peerage account of Lady Margaret Bryan
is misleading in many respects. For interest's sake, I've copied
below my own account of Lady Margaret Bryan. All of my sources are
cited.
Lady Margaret Bryan is the ancestress of two New World 17th Century
immigrants:
1. Essex Beville.
2. Mary Launce.
.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
+ + + + + + +
Bourgchier-Bryan Family
I. MARGARET BOURGCHIER, was a legatee in the 1472 will of her mother,
Elizabeth (Tilney) (Bourgchier) Howard, afterwards Duchess of
Norfolk. She married (1st) by agreement dated 11 Nov. 1478 JOHN
SANDYS (or SANDES) , of Ringwood, Hampshire, son and heir apparent of
William Sandys, Knt., of the Vyne, Sherborne St. John, Hampshire.
They had one child. She married (2nd) before 1495 THOMAS BRYAN, Knt.,
of Marsworth, Cheddington, and Hardwick, Buckinghamshire, Knight of
the Body to Kings Henry VII and Henry VIII, Vice Chamberlain to Queen
Katherine of Aragón, son and heir of Thomas Bryan, Knt., of Hardwick
and Marsworth, Buckinghamshire, Chief Justice of the Common Pleas.
They had two sons, Thomas and Francis, Knt., and three daughters,
Margaret (wife of Henry Guildford, K.G.), Anne, and Elizabeth. He and
his wife, Margaret, were legatees and named executors in the 1495 will
of his father, Sir Thomas Bryan the elder. He was knighted by King
Henry VII in 1497. His wife, Margaret, was governess to Princess Mary
Tudor, later to Princess Elizabeth Tudor. According to her own
account, she was made a Baroness by King Henry VIII. SIR THOMAS BRYAN
left a will dated 1 Oct. 1508, proved 30 Jan. 1517/8 (P.C.C. 4
Ayloffe), requesting burial at St. Saviour, Bermondsey, Surrey or at
Ashridge Chapel in Berkhamsted, Hertfordshire. A pension of £25 per
year was granted by the king to his widow, Margaret, 7 July 1519. She
occurs on the 1522 Muster roll for Marsworth, Buckinghamshire as "My
Ladye Bryan," being assessed for £20 worth of lands in that parish.
She married (3rd) before 1523 DAVID [DE LA] ZOUCHE, younger son of
John Zouche, Esq., of Codnor, Derbyshire, by Elizabeth, daughter of
John Saint John, Knt. In 1523 Lady Margaret sold the manor and
advowson of Hardwick, Buckinghamshire to Sir Robert Lee. In 1527 the
manor of Marsworth, Buckinghamshire was settled on Margaret and David,
for the life of Margaret. A sum of £100 was granted by the king 4
March 1550/1 towards payment of the debts of "tholde Ladie Bryan."
Lady Margaret died about 1554.
References:
Collins, Peerage of England (1735): 331-344. Nicolas, Testamenta
Vetusta 2 (1826): 482-484 (wills of Elizabeth Howard, Duchess of
Norfolk), 449-450 (will of Sir Thomas Bryan, Chief Justice), 551-553
(will of Sir Thomas Bryan the younger). Ellis, Original Letters Ill.
of English Hist. 2nd Ser. 2 (1827): 78-83. Madden, Privy Purse
Expenses of the Princess Mary, Daughter of King Henry the Eighth,
Afterwards Queen Mary (1831): xx ("Lady Margaret Bryan ... a lady of
good sense and ability), cxviii, 51, 53, 104, 247. Wood, Letters of
Royal and Illustrious Ladies of Great Britain (1846): 67-69.
Strickland, Lives of the Queens of England 5 (1848): 100, 102, 122,
138. Glover & St. George, Vis. of Yorkshire 1584-5, 1612 (1875): 62-
63 (Bourchier pedigree: "Margaret [Bourchier], married, 1st, to John,
son and heir to Sir William Sandys, of Hampshire, and after to Sir
Thomas Bryan, son to ye Lord Chief Justice of ye Common Pleas").
Hawley et al., Vis. of Essex 1552, 1558, 1570, 1612 & 1634 1 (H.S.P.
13) (1878): 2-4 (1552 Vis.) (Barnes pedigree: "Margret [Bourchier]
wyff to Sr Thomas Bryan"). Genealogist n.s. 8 (1891): 179-180 (Zouche
pedigree). Herts Genealogist & Antiquary 1 (1895): 157. List of
Early Chancery Procs. 3 (PRO Lists and Indexes 20) (1906): 36, 91; 4
(PRO Lists and Indexes 29) (1908): 234; 10 (PRO Lists and Indexes 55)
(1936): 308. D.N.B. 3 (1908): 150-152 (biog. of Sir Francis Bryan).
Copinger, Manors of Suffolk 5 (1910): 206. C.P. 2 (1912): 363 (sub
Bryan); 11 (1949): 441, footnote c (sub Sandys); 14 (1998): 118 (sub
Bryan). Desc. Cat. of Ancient Deeds 6 (1915): 425-426. VCH Berkshire
4 (1924): 481. VCH Buckingham 3 (1925): 363-364, 392-393 (citing
Memo. R. (Exch. L.T.R.), Hil. 1 Mary, m. 31. for death date of
Margaret Bourchier). Misc. Gen. et Heraldica 5th Ser. 8 (1932-1934):
109-118 (Saunders pedigree) (Bryan arms: Argent, three piles conjoined
in base gules). Calendar of Deeds and other Recs. preserved ... at the
Museum, Aylesbury (Buckinghamshire Arch. Soc. Recs. Ser. 5) (1941): 27
[deed of Dame Margarete, wife of David de la Zowche (late the wife of
Sir Thomas Brian)]. Feet of Fines for Essex 4 (1964): 130-131
(Margaret, wife of Thomas Bryan, knight, styled "another of the
daughters of Humphrey Bourgchier"). Chibnall Certificate of Musters
for Buckinghamshire in 1522 (Buckingham Rec. Soc. 17) (1973): 188.
Bindoff, House of Commons 1509-1558 1 (1982): 527-539 (biog. of Sir
Francis Bryan). Leese, Blood Royal (1996): 170-181. Harris, English
Aristocratic Women, 1450-1550 (2002): 142, 186, 218-219, 222, 302,
334. PRO Document, E 40/959 (Acquittance dated 18 Dec. 1525 by David
Zoche and Dame Margaret Bryan his wife, for a pipe of wine received
from John Husee, knt., Chief Butler of England, by the hands of Roger
Dele, his deputy in the port of London, towards the tun of wine
granted her yearly at Michaelmas by the King) (abstract of document
available online at http://www.catalogue.nationalarchives.gov.uk/search.asp).
Chancery Proceeding dated 1486-1529, C 1/84/74 (Thomas Bryan, esquire,
and Margaret, his wife, previously the wife of John Sandes, esquire.
v. William Sandes, knight, father of the said John re. jointure of the
said Margaret, who is daughter of Elizabeth, wife of Thomas [Howard],
Earl of Surrey); Chancery Proceeding dated 1486-1529, C 1/109/3
(Margaret Sandes, late the wife of John, son and heir of Sir William
Sandes, knight. v. John Cheyne, Thomas Bourghchier, and Walter
Hungerford, knights for the body of the king, James Hoberd, the king's
attorney, and others, feoffees to uses, re. the manors of North
Assheley and Bromeley, in the parishes of Ringwood and Bromeley,
Hampshire settled on complainant for life at her marriage); Chancery
Proceeding dated 1486-1529, C 1/109/5 (Margaret Sandes, late the wife
of John, son and heir of Sir William Sandes, knight. v. Sir William
Sandes, re. detention of lands settled on complainant); Chancery
Proceeding dated 1500-1515, C 1/314/2 (Edmund [Grey], Lord Grey, of
Wilton. v. Thomas Bryan, knight, son of Thomas Bryan, knight, late
Chief Justice of the Common Pleas re. judgment debt for the difference
between the profits of the manor of Purley and the cost of the
maintenance of complainant's son George, who it was agreed was to
marry Margaret, defendant's daughter, but who has declined her; a
'sporner of lande' and a pair of fine sheets having been given in part
payment); Chancery Proceeding dated 1386-1558, C 1/1513/19-20
(Margaret Sandys v. William Sandys, knight.: Marriage settlement with
John, son of defendant, who died leaving complainant pregnant of a
child since born) (abstract of documents available online at
http://www.catalogue.nationalarchives.gov.uk/search.asp). Registered
will of Sir Thomas Bryan, dated 7 Feb. 1495, proved 11 Dec. 1500,
Prerogative Court of Canterbury, 13 Moone [FHL Microfilm 91,902].
Registered will of Sir Thomas Bryan, dated 1 Oct. 1508, proved 31 Jan.
1517/8, Prerogative Court of Canterbury, 4 Ayloffe [FHL Microfilm
91,907].
wjhonson
> Dear Newsgroup ~
>
> Conplete Peerage, 2 (1912): 363 (sub Bryan) has a rather limited
> account of Lady Margaret Bourgchier, wife of Sir Francis Bryan, who
> was Governess to both Queens Mary I and Elizabeth I. According to her
Correcting the above to say "wife of Sir Thomas Bryan (knighted in
1497, of Cheddington)"
Will Johnson
wjhonson
>
> I. MARGARET BOURGCHIER, was a legatee in the 1472 will of her mother,
> Elizabeth (Tilney) (Bourgchier) Howard, afterwards Duchess of
> Norfolk. She married (1st) by agreement dated 11 Nov. 1478 JOHN
> SANDYS (or SANDES) , of Ringwood, Hampshire, son and heir apparent of
> William Sandys, Knt., of the Vyne, Sherborne St. John, Hampshire.
> They had one child. She married (2nd) before 1495 THOMAS BRYAN, Knt.,>>
The following document seems to allow us to trim a year off this and
say "by 1493"
Thomas Bryan, esquire, and Margaret, his wife, previously the wife of
John Sandes, esquire. v. William Sandes, knight, father of the said
John.: Jointure of the said Margaret, who is daughter of Elizabeth,
wife of Thomas [Howard], earl of Surrey. [1486-1493] (PROCAT C
1/84/74)
Will Johnson
wjhonson
> occurs on the 1522 Muster roll for Marsworth, Buckinghamshire as "My
> Ladye Bryan," being assessed for £20 worth of lands in that parish.
> She married (3rd) before 1523 DAVID [DE LA] ZOUCHE, younger son of
> John Zouche, Esq., of Codnor, Derbyshire, by Elizabeth, daughter of
> John Saint John, Knt. In 1523 Lady Margaret sold the manor and
> advowson of Hardwick, Buckinghamshire to Sir Robert Lee. In 1527 the
> manor of Marsworth, Buckinghamshire was settled on Margaret and David,
> for the life of Margaret. >>
This placement of the third husband of Margaret is doubtful. I would
suggest rather that the David Zouche she married was a younger son of
Sir John le Zouche, Knt of Codnor by his wife Eleanor St John. That
is, that David was one generation further up the line. Placing David
as Douglas above would make him *several* decades younger than his
aledged wife. It's much more likely the sources quoted have erred in
the identification of the two John Zouche's and their two St John
wives.
Will Johnson
wjhonson
> Proceeding dated 1500-1515, C 1/314/2 (Edmund [Grey], Lord Grey, of
> Wilton. v. Thomas Bryan, knight, son of Thomas Bryan, knight, late
> Chief Justice of the Common Pleas re. judgment debt for the difference
> between the profits of the manor of Purley and the cost of the
> maintenance of complainant's son George, who it was agreed was to
> marry Margaret, defendant's daughter, but who has declined her; a
> 'sporner of lande' and a pair of fine sheets having been given in part
> payment);
Strange that they date this 1500-1515, didn't "Edmund Grey, Lord Grey
of Wilton" die in 1511 ?
I did not previously have this George Grey in my database so this is
an interesting addition.
Will Johnson
wjhonson
Margaret Cheney ? If so, I have him dead on 26 Oct 1496 which allows a
rather more finely tuned ability to date the document by which
Margaret complains that her husband had died and he had a child by her
posthumously.
Leo van de Pas
made no difference that Edmund Grey died on 5 May 1511 (CP VI page 182) was
it continued for his son(s) and heir(s)? George died before 15 January
1514/1515, and Thomas who died 30 October 1517.
With best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia
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wound...@gmail.com
information on Margaret Bourgchier's son Thomas. My own genealogical
research links my ancestry back to Thomas Bryan (my 14xgreat
grandfather), born ~1554 in Aylesbury, whose grandson founded the
colony in Milford Ct (USA). Much of hard work was actually done by CC
Baldwin as a side effect of his research on the related Baldwin
family. In attempting to extend this research, I've repeatedly come
across this Bryan line. Several piece of circumstantial evidence
indicate a possible link.
1 - The name similarity, of course.
2- Location - Aylesbury is close to the villages and manors that this
Bryan line.
3- Like Margaret Bourgchier's father-in-law, an ancestor of the
related Baldwin family, Sir John Baldwin, was the Chief Justice of the
Common Pleas.
Any information you might have at hand would be very much
appreciated.
Thanks
Jacob Bryant
Douglas Richardson
Thank you for your good post.
In answer to your question, I believe that Margaret Bourgchier's son,
Thomas Bryan, died young. As such, he would not be ancestral to your
Thomas Bryan, of Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire.
Like you, however, I'm a descendant of the Baldwin family of
Buckinghamshire. Thus, it would appear that we are distantly related
to one another.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah