POYNTZ Family
bar...@my-dejanews.com
much interest the recent discussion on POYNTZ wives.
For the life of me I cannot understand why any reliance is placed on those
secondary sources quoted apart from The Complete Peerage.
Theron L. Smith wrote a good outline showing the alarming degree of
divergance in the information contained in four such secondary sources.
i.
The "known" wives of the Curry Malet Poyntz line are as follows:
Nicholas Poyntz ob.1273 Unknown
Hugh Poyntz ob. 1307 Unknown
Nicholas Poyntz ob. 1311 1. Elizabeth daughter of Eudes la Zouche
2. Maud daughter of John de Acton
Hugh Poyntz ob. 1337 Margaret . . . .
Nicholas Poyntz ob.1368-1376 1. Eleanor . . . .
2. Eve de Stokes
The marriage of a Nicholas Poyntz and Eleanor indicated in Calendar of Patent
Rolls Oct.13 1333,
"Licence for Hugh Poyntz to grant to Nicholas Poyntz, Eleanor his wife, and
his heirs begotten of the body of Eleanor, a moiety of the manor of Hoo, held
in chief; with remainder in default of such heirs to the grantor and his
heirs. By fine of 10li."
Nicholas is not said to be the son of Hugh Poyntz. Had he beens could some
kind soul explain to me the purpose of such a grant?
Later in Calendar of Patent Rolls May 22 1345 we see,
"Licence for Nicholas de Poyntz, 'chivaler,' to enfeoff John de Gray of
Codenore of the manor of Hoo, co. Kent, the advowsons of the churches of that
manor excepted, which is held in chief as appears by inquisition taken by John
de Vieleston, escheator in the said county, in exchange for the manors of
Brodeweye and Estelleworth, co. Dorset. By fine of 10 marks."
Nicholas Poyntz, son and heir of Hugh Poyntz (ob.1337) proved his age and had
seizin of his lands in 1340. In 1344 he acknowledged a debt of 400li. and
from that point on he proceeded to lose control of his inheritance. He was
never summoned to Parliament as he held insufficient land. It must be
remembered that Maud de Acton received substantial lands and knight's fees
for her dower in 1315. These did not revert to the Poyntz family until her
death in 1361.
On 11 Oct 1485 John Newburgh held, on the day he died, a moiety of the manor
of Broadway Dorset. This would seem to indicate that Nicholas Poyntz's
daughters Margaret (Newburgh) and Avice (Barre) had each received a moiety.
ii.
In 1368 John Poyntz of Iron Acton granted to Pontius, son of Nicholas Poyntz,
100 shillings rent from the manor of Iron Acton.
This Pontius was, almost certainly, the "Pontius heir of Nicholas Poyntz of
Tokington" who married Elianor (Baldwyn) and inherited the manor of North
Okendon in Essex. The Poyntz of North Okendon Coat of Arms is the Poyntz arms
differenced with a mullet in chief. One must assume that Nicholas the father
of Pontius was a third son. If so, of whom?
iii.
In the Court of Hustings London Matilda WALRAUNT in her will of 11 Jun 1289
left to Matilda POYNTZ, her neice, her messuage in London. This Matilda
Poyntz married Matthew de Loveyn (ob. 1302) and she died in 1306. In 1316 her
daughter Alice sold the messuage. Matilda Walraunt, the widow of Robert
Waleraund (ob. 1273) was the daughter of Ralph Russel of Derham Gloucs. He
also held lands in Dorset and Somerset. My theory is that Nicholas Poyntz
(ob. 1273) married Matilda's sister. Matilda Poyntz who died in 1306 was the
sister of Hugh Poyntz (ob. 1307). Nicholas Poyntz (ob. 1311) held the manor
of Rockley Wilts. which had descended from Hugh de Kilpeck (ob. c.1244), to
his daughter Isabel wife of William Waleraund (brother of Matilda's husband
Robert), then to her idiot son John Waleraund who died without heir in 1309,
two years prior to Nicholas Poyntz.
If anyone could offer any help with the above I would be extremely grateful.
Regards to all,
--
Tony Ingham
Maryborough
AUSTRALIA
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Nigel Barker
writes
>As a descendant of the North Okendon branch of the POYNTZ family I read with
>much interest the recent discussion on POYNTZ wives.
>
>For the life of me I cannot understand why any reliance is placed on those
>secondary sources quoted apart from The Complete Peerage.
>
require verification:
>Theron L. Smith wrote a good outline showing the alarming degree of
>divergance in the information contained in four such secondary sources.
>
>i.
>The "known" wives of the Curry Malet Poyntz line are as follows:
>
>Nicholas Poyntz ob.1273 Unknown
Sir Nicholas Poyntz, Lord of Cory Malet, Somerset (the seat of the
Barons Malet) and of Sutton, Devon of Hoo Kent, of Tockington
Gloucestershire and of Dullingham, Cambridge (this last also a Malet
holding), summond for service in Wales 1251,1258, 1260 and 1263. B.ca.
1220, m, Elizabeth, dau and co-heir of Timothy Dynalland died 1273
leaving issue: Sir Hugh Poyntz.
>
>Hugh Poyntz ob. 1307 Unknown
Sir Hugh Poyntz, summond to Parliament as 1st Baron Poyntz 1295, served
in the wars in Wales, Gascony and Scotland, b 25 Aug 1262, m. Margaret,
dau, of Sir William Paveley and died ca. 1307 leaving issue: Sir
Nicholas Poyntz
>
>Nicholas Poyntz ob. 1311 1. Elizabeth daughter of Eudes la Zouche
> 2. Maud daughter of John de Acton
Sir Nicholas Poyntz, 2nd Baron Poyntz, summond to Parliament from 4th
March, 1308/9 to 16th June, 1311, served in the Scottish Wars, b. ca.
1278, died 1311.
m:
1. Elizabeth daughter of Eudes la Zouche, of Harringworth,
Northants (See Burke's Peerage for the Barons Zouche)
and has issue:
a. Sir Hugh Poyntz 3rd Baron Poyntz
b. Nicholas, of Hoo, Kent.
2. Matilda daughter asnd co-heir of John de Acton of Iron
Acton, Gloucestershire and had issue:
Sir John Poyntz
>
>Hugh Poyntz ob. 1337 Margaret . . . .
Sir Hugh Poyntz, 3rd Baron Poyntz, was summond to Parliament 1317-30,
served in the Scottish wars, b. ca. 1293, m, Margaret, daughter of Sir
Walter Paynel, Kt., of Brock, Wiltshire and d. 25th March, 1337 leaving
issue:
Sir Nicholas Poyntz, 4th Baron Poyntz,
Johanna, to whom her father granted a pension out of the manor
of Stoke St Edward and Batcombe.
>
>Nicholas Poyntz ob.1368-1376 1. Eleanor . . . .
> 2. Eve de Stokes
Sir Nicholas Poyntz, 4th Baron Poyntz, never summond to Parliament,
fought in France at the battle of Crecy and the Seige of Calais
1346-47. b. ca. 1320. m. Alianora, daughter of Sir John Erleigh, Kt.,
and d. 1376 leaving issue two daughters (between whom the Barony fell
into abeyance):
1. Margaret m. Sir John Newburgh, of Lulworth, Dorest.
2. Amicia, m. John Barry and d.s.p.
Reverting to Nicholas Poyntz of Hoo, Kent, second son of the 2nd Baron
and Elizabeth de la Zouche. He received a moiety of the manor of Hoo
from his brother, Sir Hugh the 3rd Baron,- he was ancestor of the family
of Poyntz of North Ockenden, Essex, exticnt in 1703.
Back now to Sir John Poyntz, son of Sir Hugh the 2nd Baron and Matilda
de Acton, of Iron Action as heir of his mother, sheriff of Glos, 1363,
d. 15th June, 1439
m:
1. Elizabeth, daughter and co-heir of Philip de Clanvowe
and has issue
Robert Poyntz of Iron Acton bapt 15th June, 1359
2. Katherine, daughter and co-heir of Sir Thomas
FitzNichol, of Hill and Nympsfield, Glos and has issue
(a) Sir Nicholas Poyntz of Iron Acton
(b) Thomas of Frampton Cotterell
(c) Maurice, convicted of matricide 1465
(d) Blanche
(e) Isabelle m Robert Stanshaw and has issue
(f) Joan m. William Doddington
>
>The marriage of a Nicholas Poyntz and Eleanor indicated in Calendar of Patent
>Rolls Oct.13 1333,
>
>"Licence for Hugh Poyntz to grant to Nicholas Poyntz, Eleanor his wife, and
>his heirs begotten of the body of Eleanor, a moiety of the manor of Hoo, held
>in chief; with remainder in default of such heirs to the grantor and his
>heirs. By fine of 10li."
>
>Nicholas is not said to be the son of Hugh Poyntz. Had he beens could some
>kind soul explain to me the purpose of such a grant?
>
>Later in Calendar of Patent Rolls May 22 1345 we see,
>
>"Licence for Nicholas de Poyntz, 'chivaler,' to enfeoff John de Gray of
>Codenore of the manor of Hoo, co. Kent, the advowsons of the churches of that
>manor excepted, which is held in chief as appears by inquisition taken by John
>de Vieleston, escheator in the said county, in exchange for the manors of
>Brodeweye and Estelleworth, co. Dorset. By fine of 10 marks."
>
>Nicholas Poyntz, son and heir of Hugh Poyntz (ob.1337) proved his age and had
>seizin of his lands in 1340. In 1344 he acknowledged a debt of 400li. and
>from that point on he proceeded to lose control of his inheritance. He was
>never summoned to Parliament as he held insufficient land. It must be
>remembered that Maud de Acton received substantial lands and knight's fees
>for her dower in 1315. These did not revert to the Poyntz family until her
>death in 1361.
Quoting from the Victoria History of Cambridgeshire re Poyntz Hall,
Dullingham:
'That moiety has been assigned c. 1265 to Nicholas Poyntz [Close R.
1264-8. 41-2; cf. Complete Peerage x 671-6], son of Helewise Malet by
Hugh Poyntz (d.1220), another Somerset landowner [Rot. Litt. Clause.
(Rec. Com.), 1. 303,439; Ex. e Rot. Fin. (Rec Com.) i. 45; Close R.
1231-4, 169]. In 1264 and 1265 Nicholas's manor was seized and plundered
by Montfordian rebels [ Rot. Selecti (Re. Com.) 244-6; J. 1. 1/83 rot.
20]. Before his death in 1273 Nicholas granted it to his eldest son Hugh
[Cal. Inq. p.m. ii, pp 21-2] who by 1279 had granted it for life to Sir
Henry Cockington. In 1291 Cockington returned it to Hugh [S.C. 5/Cambs.
Tower ser. no. 15 rot. 1; C.P. 25(1)/ 26/44 no.1.] who died in 1308 and
was succeeded by his son Nicholas [ Cal. Inq. p.m. v, pp. 13-14].The
same year Nicholas (d. 1311) granted it in fee at rent to John Knight, a
London merchant, but Nicholas's son and heir Hugh [ Ibid. vi. pp. 194-5]
held it in demesne at his death in 1337. Hugh's son Nicholas,of age in
1340 [Ibid viii, pp 72-3, 459; Cal Close, 1339-41, 555], granted the
moiety, subject to a yearly rent, to his younger brother Hugh, and in
1349 sold reversionary interest to John Wiltshire. In 1353 Wiltshire
conveyed his right to John Kimble, to whom Hugh Poyntz released
possession of the esatte in 1355 [Cal.Close, 1354-60, 188]
>
>On 11 Oct 1485 John Newburgh held, on the day he died, a moiety of the manor
>of Broadway Dorset. This would seem to indicate that Nicholas Poyntz's
>daughters Margaret (Newburgh) and Avice (Barre) had each received a moiety.
>
>ii.
>
>In 1368 John Poyntz of Iron Acton granted to Pontius, son of Nicholas Poyntz,
>100 shillings rent from the manor of Iron Acton.
>
>This Pontius was, almost certainly, the "Pontius heir of Nicholas Poyntz of
>Tokington" who married Elianor (Baldwyn) and inherited the manor of North
>Okendon in Essex. The Poyntz of North Okendon Coat of Arms is the Poyntz arms
>differenced with a mullet in chief. One must assume that Nicholas the father
>of Pontius was a third son. If so, of whom?
The answer appears to be shown above but Burke does nor follow the North
Ockenden line past Nicholas of Hoo in Kent- just refers to him as
ancestor of this line. If Pontius was Nicholas's son, this would, I
think, make him the step-nephew of Sir John Poyntz, of Iron Action,
>
>iii.
>
>In the Court of Hustings London Matilda WALRAUNT in her will of 11 Jun 1289
>left to Matilda POYNTZ, her neice, her messuage in London. This Matilda
>Poyntz married Matthew de Loveyn (ob. 1302) and she died in 1306. In 1316 her
>daughter Alice sold the messuage. Matilda Walraunt, the widow of Robert
>Waleraund (ob. 1273) was the daughter of Ralph Russel of Derham Gloucs. He
>also held lands in Dorset and Somerset. My theory is that Nicholas Poyntz
>(ob. 1273) married Matilda's sister. Matilda Poyntz who died in 1306 was the
>sister of Hugh Poyntz (ob. 1307). Nicholas Poyntz (ob. 1311) held the manor
>of Rockley Wilts. which had descended from Hugh de Kilpeck (ob. c.1244), to
>his daughter Isabel wife of William Waleraund (brother of Matilda's husband
>Robert), then to her idiot son John Waleraund who died without heir in 1309,
>two years prior to Nicholas Poyntz.
>
>If anyone could offer any help with the above I would be extremely grateful.
>
>Regards to all,
>
>--
>Tony Ingham
>Maryborough
>AUSTRALIA
>
>-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
>http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
--
Nigel Barker
Benjamin Hertzel
> Sir Nicholas Poyntz, 4th Baron Poyntz, never summond to Parliament,
> fought in France at the battle of Crecy and the Seige of Calais
> 1346-47. b. ca. 1320. m. Alianora, daughter of Sir John Erleigh, Kt.,
> and d. 1376 leaving issue two daughters
Yes, but which John Erleigh was the father of Alianora?
Benjamin