Identity of Alienor
Roem...@aol.com
Lumley, daughter of Sir Robert de Lumley and Mary FitzMarmaduke. Could this be
true?
Kay Baganoff
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John Watson
Hi Kay,
I have her as Eleanor Widdrington, daughter of Roger Widdrington and
Elizabeth Acton. She married firstly Sir Robert
Umfreville who died in October 1379, and secondly Conan Aske. She died
on 5 October 1428.
Sources:
1. Archaeologica Aeliana, Third Series, Vol I (Newcastle-upon-Tyne:
1904) p 83
2. Richard Welford, History of Newcastle and Gateshead, Vol I, 14th &
15th Centuries (Newcastle: 1884) p 19
Both should be on Google Books
Douglas Richardson
You may have confused two successive Robert de Umfreville's, father
and son, both of whom had a wife named Eleanor.
I've already posted regarding the possible Montfitchet identity of
Eleanor, wife of the elder Sir Robert de Umfreville, Knt. (died 1325),
who was Earl of Angus. Her first husband was Sir Richard Fitz
Marmaduke, Knt. (died 1318), of Horden, co. Durham, whose sister and
heir was Mary Fitz Marmaduke, wife of Sir Robert de Lumley, Knt., of
Lumley, Durham.
As for the younger Sir Robert de Umfreville, Knt., I've copied below
an account of him. His wife was Eleanor de Widdrington.
ROBERT DE UMFREVILLE, Knt., of Farnacres, co. Durham, Knight of the
Shire for Northumberland, 1376, minor in 1340. In 1340, as “Robert
son of Robert de Umfreville” by John de Birtley, his guardian, he sued
John de Herlawe, clerk, regarding accounts. He married before 1373
ELEANOR DE WIDDRINGTON, daughter of Roger de Widdrington, by his 1st
wife, Elizabeth, daughter of Richard Acton. They had no issue. In
1373 he and his wife, Eleanor, together with Bertram de Monboucher and
Christian his wife (Eleanor’s sister) sued Thomas Surteys, Knt.,
Donald de Hesilrigg, Knt., William de Hesilrigg brother of the said
Donald, and Edmund de Hesilrigg, brother of the said William,
regarding the manor of Coldwell (or Colewell, Caldwell),
Northumberland. The same year the same couples likewise sued William
Heron regarding land in Gunwarton, Northumberland. SIR ROBERT DE
UMFREVILLE died in 1379. His widow, Eleanor, married (2nd) before
1385 Conan de Aske, of Aske, Yorkshire. They had one son, Roger.
Eleanor died before 1426. Hodgson, Hist. of Northumberland Pt. 2 vol.
1 (1827): 6–7 (Umfreville pedigree). Burke, A General and Heraldic
Dictionary of the Peerages of England, Ireland, & Scotland (1831): 527–
529 (sub Umfravill). Arch. Æliana 3rd ser. 1 (1904): 78–80, 83–84;
3rd ser. 6 (1910): 49, 60, 61, 64. Hedley Northumberland Fams.
(1968): 208–215.
I trust this answers your question.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
wjhonson
Subj: Re: Aske Redux : Conan, Conan, Roger , Conan Aske of Aske and
their wives
Date: 12/26/2007 11:42:50 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: Jwc...@aol.com
To: GEN-ME...@rootsweb.com
The true identity of Eleanor , the wife of Conan Aske Esq of Aske
would sreem to be neither Widdrington nor de Medlam, but rather the
daughter of one Roger Middleham. Archaelogia Aeliana (Or Miscellaneous
tracts relating to Antiquity (1857) document 23 relates to the
taking of Alianor (or Eleanor ) Aske`s Inquisition Post Mortum taken
on the 29 November 1428 before one Laurence de Acton, Mayor of thre
City of Newcastle. It refers to her having held in her demesne one
half of a third part of a waste messuage called Emilden place in the
suburbs of Newcastle near the Hospital of Blessed Mary Magdalene
without the Newe Yhate(? New Gate) which half of a third part was held
of the King in free burgage (perhaps her father was a burgher of that
city) as parcel of said town, rendering yearly the sum of 2 d to the
Master of Tyne bridge for its` upkeep. The clear property value was
worth nothing as it was totally wasted. Eleanor died October 5, 1428
and her son Roger was aged 37 years and upwards and survived her by 11
years.Her husband Conan Aske, Esq of Aske Richmondshire was a witness
for Richard . Lord Scrope againest Sir Robert Grosvenor as to who had
a better right to bear a certain coat of arms which controversy took
place in the reign of King Richard II . hE had served in the wars with
France, Spain and Scotland.
Sincerely,
James W Cummings
Dixmont, Maine USA
Douglas Richardson
parentage is an old issue of Archaeologia Æliana, n.s. 1 (1857): 31.
That reference may be viewed at the following weblink:
http://books.google.com/books?id=LDQGAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA31&dq=Aeliana+Conan+ask
In a later issue of Archaeologia Æliana, 3rd ser. 1 (1904): 78–80, 83–
84, Eleanor, wife of Robert de Umfreville, Knt., and Conan Aske, is
correctly identified as the daughter of Roger de Widdrington, by his
1st wife, Elizabeth, daughter of Richard Acton. The chart for this
article which sets out these relationships may be viewed at the
following weblink:
http://books.google.com/books?id=7usRAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA80&dq=Widdrington+Monboucher&lr=
Hedley's History of Northumberland identifies Eleanor as the daughter
and co-heiress of Roger de Widdrington. However, Eleanor and her full
sister, Christian, wife of Bertram de Monboucher, were co-heirs only
to their mother, Elizabeth Acton, not to their father. The heir of
Roger de Widdrington was his younger son, John de Widdrington.
Peter G R Howarth
<snip>
>elder Sir Robert de Umfreville, Knt.<snip>
>Sir Richard Fitz Marmaduke, Knt.<snip>
>Sir Robert de Lumley, Knt.<snip>
>younger Sir Robert de Umfreville, Knt.<snip>
Knights bachelor are by convention described either as Sir X Y or as X Y,
Knt. Sir X Y, Knt. is otiose and suggests that the writer does not have
good taste.
However, where they are made members of an order of knighthood, like the
Garter or the Bath, and they do not have a superior title, they may be
described as Sir X Y, KG or Sir M N, KB. If they are made a member of both
orders then, because the Garter takes precedence over all other orders, they
are described as Sir X Y, KG, KB even if they were made KB first.
Where they have a superior title, 'Sir' is omitted: X Y, Earl of Z, KG.
Peter G R Howarth
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20:41
Douglas Richardson
wrote:
> However, where they are made members of an order of knighthood, like the
> Garter or the Bath, and they do not have a superior title, they may be
> described as Sir X Y, KG or Sir M N, KB. If they are made a member of both
> orders then, because the Garter takes precedence over all other orders, they
> are described as Sir X Y, KG, KB even if they were made KB first.
> Where they have a superior title, 'Sir' is omitted: X Y, Earl of Z, KG.
>
> Peter G R Howarth
Thank you for your comments. Much appreciated.
DR