FitzJames of Redlynch/Michell of East Chilton
Brad Verity
Elizabeth Bluett, daughter of Walter Bluett of Holcombe Rogus, Devonshire,
and Joan St. Maur. Elizabeth married, as his first wife, John FitzJames, of
Redlynch in Bruton, Somerset, son and heir of John FitzJames of Redlynch (d.
1476) by his wife Alice Newburgh. John FitzJames of Redlynch was an MP, and
died in 1510, leaving a will which was probated on 10 December 1510. The
will is available thru PCC Wills Online, which I will order.
I was wondering if anyone had a list of the issue of John FitzJames and
Elizabeth Bluett? I have compiled (from unsourced websites) the following
children:
1) Sir John FitzJames of Redlynch, chief justice of the King's Bench, born
about 1470; died about 1542; will dated 23 Oct. 1538
2) Elizabeth FitzJames, married John Gilbert, of Compton, Devonshire
3) Margaret FitzJames*, married Thomas Michell (c.1474-1503), of East
Chilton in Durleigh, and Clayhill, Dodesham & Pillock in Cannington,
Somerset, 3rd son & eventual heir of Walter Michell by his wife Agnes
Peryman.
* But the wife of Thomas Michell and mother of his children is also stated
to have been Isabel ----, who married 2ndly, John FitzJames of Redlynch (d.
1510), above, and died his widow in 1527, leaving a will naming "My daughter
Lady Fitzjames--My son Hugh Malet of Corypool a goblet of gilte, bearing
arms of liberds head-- To my godson Thomas Malet a goblet gilte with the
arms of portcullis and the rose and six silver spoongs--My daughter Isabel
Malet a nutte gilte, with cover to the same, and a Mary Mawdelyn box with a
cover, six pair of fine sheets, and six of yeomen sheets-- My son Thomas
Michell, my daughter Jane Michell his wife, etc. Residue to Hugh Malet and
Thomas Michell, executors."
Some sources say this Isabel, second wife of John FitzJames, was a
Courtenay. This may be confusing her with Elizabeth Courtenay (d. 1
September 1493), daughter of Sir Philip Courtenay, of Powderham, who married
1st, Sir James Luttrell, 2nd, Sir Humphrey Audley, and 3rdly (as his 2nd
wife), Thomas Malet, of Enmore, Currypool and Sutton Malet, Somerset (d. 9
July 1501), son of Hugh Malet and Joan Ronyon. By his first wife Joan
Wadham, Thomas Malet was grandfather of Hugh Malet of Enmore (d. 1541) who
married Isabel Michell, daughter of Thomas Michell (d. 1503) of East
Chilton, above. Thomas Malet (d. 1501) also left a widow, his third wife,
named Isabel, to whom he left the manor of Sutton Malet for life, and this
Isabel is said by some sources to have been the daughter of Sir William
Courtenay.
It's all very confusing.
Cheers, -----------Brad
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John P. Ravilious
What you give below (Bluett - FitzJames - Michell - Malet) is as
I have it at present. Jeffrey Duvall had advised some time ago that
Elizabeth Bluett was identified as a daughter of a William (not Walter)
Bluett or Blewett.
I ceased working on this line following failure to prove their
alleged Prater/Prather descendant, Thomas Prater of West Kingston,
Wilts. was the father of the emigrant Thomas Prater/Prather (of
'Elizabeth Cittie', Virginia, 1622), the alleged ancestor of the
Praters of Maryland. If I should note some added relevant information
on the FitzJames, etc. I will advise.
Cheers,
John
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John Higgins
of Somerset [1885] has a pedigree of Fitzjames which lists the children of
John Fitzjames (d. 1510) and Elizabeth Bluett as the 3 children you list and
3 additional daughters: Alice, Jane and Jone [sic]. Spouses are not given
for the first two but Joan/Jone is said to have mar. "Rich. Fortescue of
Filly, Devon". However, I cannot quickly find this last marriage (or any
Fitzjames connection) in the usual pedigrees of the Fortescue family. So,
caveat lector...
The same pedigree does not specify a given name for Elizabeth Bluett nor
does it give her parents. I gather from the response of John R. that there
is some question about the name of her father. She does not appear in a
pedigree of Blewett in Vivian's edition of the visitations of Devon, but a
sister Joan of John Fitzjames (d. 1510) did mar. Nicholas Bluett [or
Blewett], son of Walter and Joan St. Maur, so it would not be improbable
that Nicholas had a sister who mar. his wife's brother. Is there any other
support for the parentage of Elizabeth Bluett?
Finally, the Somerset visitation pedigree of Fitzjames gives the parents of
John Fitzjames (d. 1510) as James [not John] Fitzjames and Elinor Draycott
of Redlinch. Since John Fitzjames (d. 1510) was an MP, he is likely in one
of the volumes of "History of Parliament", but not unfortunately in the
volumes to which I have access. What other support is there for his
parentage?
Some more items for the next trip to the library....
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Brad Verity
Many thanks for investigating this further. Comments interspersed.
>From: "John Higgins" <jthi...@sbcglobal.net>
>FWIW [not necessarily very much], F. W. Weaver's edition of the visitations
>of Somerset [1885] has a pedigree of Fitzjames which lists the children of
>John Fitzjames (d. 1510) and Elizabeth Bluett as the 3 children you list
>and
>3 additional daughters: Alice, Jane and Jone [sic].
It would seem natural for John FitzJames and Elizabeth Bluett (if daughter
of Joan St. Maur) to have daughters Alice and Joan, named for each of their
mothers.
>Spouses are not given
>for the first two but Joan/Jone is said to have mar. "Rich. Fortescue of
>Filly, Devon". However, I cannot quickly find this last marriage (or any
>Fitzjames connection) in the usual pedigrees of the Fortescue family. So,
>caveat lector...
Does the Visitation pedigree give the spouses of Margaret (Thomas Michell)
and Elizabeth (John Gilbert)?
Vivian's pedigree of Gilbert of Compton, Devonshire, doesn't mention a John
Gilbert/Elizabeth FitzJames (or any Gilbert/FitzJames) marriage, but appears
to be missing a generation or two between Otes Gilbert (about age 14 in
1430) and his alleged son and heir John Gilbert (dsp 1539).
>The same pedigree does not specify a given name for Elizabeth Bluett nor
>does it give her parents. I gather from the response of John R. that there
>is some question about the name of her father. She does not appear in a
>pedigree of Blewett in Vivian's edition of the visitations of Devon, but a
>sister Joan of John Fitzjames (d. 1510) did mar. Nicholas Bluett [or
>Blewett], son of Walter and Joan St. Maur, so it would not be improbable
>that Nicholas had a sister who mar. his wife's brother.
Agreed.
>Is there any other
>support for the parentage of Elizabeth Bluett?
No direct primary or contemporary evidence. Hopefully the will of John
FitzJames (d. 1510) will shed some light.
>Finally, the Somerset visitation pedigree of Fitzjames gives the parents of
>John Fitzjames (d. 1510) as James [not John] Fitzjames and Elinor Draycott
>of Redlinch.
Another Visitation pedigree mistake. James FitzJames (d. about 1391) and
Eleanor Draycott, heiress of Redlynch, were actually the great-grandparents
of John FitzJames (d. 1510).
>Since John Fitzjames (d. 1510) was an MP, he is likely in one
>of the volumes of "History of Parliament", but not unfortunately in the
>volumes to which I have access.
He's in Wedgwood, which I don't have easy access to either. Anyone have
Wedgwood's HOP readily available?
What other support is there for his
>parentage?
VCH Somerset's article on Bruton (including the manor of Redlynch) is a
thorough account. It is online at:
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.asp?compid=18733
One error in it: it says that Sir John FitzJames, chief justice of the
King's Bench (d. about 1542), son and heir of John FitzJames (d. 1510) and
Elizabeth Bluett, had a daughter Elizabeth who survived him. Elizabeth was
actually his daughter-in-law, the wife of his only son John FitzJames,
esquire, who died vp and sp in 1533/4. Chief Justice John's wife's first
name was Elizabeth as well, but I haven't been able yet to determine her
parentage. The Elizabeth who married their only son was Elizabeth Basket
(dsp 1550), heiress of South Brewham, Somerset, only child of John Basket
and Joan Beauchamp of South Brewham (who was a granddaughter of John, 1st
Lord Beauchamp of Powick). See the VCH Somerset article on Brewham, also
online at:
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.asp?compid=18729
The male line of Elizabeth Bluett and John FitzJames ended in two
generations - the later FitzJameses of Redlynch were descended from a nephew
of John (d. 1510).
>Some more items for the next trip to the library....
Yes, indeed.
Thanks and Cheers, ---------Brad
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John Higgins
references to look up in SLC next trip.
As to the daughters of John Fitzjames (d. 1510), Weaver's visitation
pedigree agrees with your sources as to their spouses, Thomas Michell and
John Gilbert (although it calls Thomas Michell's wife Mary rather than
Margaret).
Weaver also carries the Gilbert descent in the Fitzjames pedigree a few
generations further to connect to the wife of Sir William Portman, Lord
Chief Justice (d. 1556/7). His wife Elizabeth Gilbert was dau. of John
Gilbert by Christian, dau. of William Baskett, and John was in turn son of
John Gifford and Elizabeth Fitzjames. I'd be curious to know if or how this
Baskett is related to the Elizabeth Baskett you mention who was mar. to the
son of Sir John Fitzjames the chief Justice.
The Gilbert pedigree is also referenced on a separate page of Weaver, which
I don't currently have a copy of. But a different visitation of Somerset,
the one of 1623 published as vol. 11 of the Harleian Society, includes in
its pedigree of Portman a typically skeletal pedigree of Gilbert which takes
the family back several generations (without dates of course and with only a
few spouses). But this sequence of Gilberts does not match at all to any of
the Gilbert families in Vivian's Devon, so if it's indeed accurate it's
likely a separate family entirely.
A somewhat related question: the Chief Justice Sir William Portman had a
son Sir Henry (d. 1590) who was mar. to Joan, dau. of Thomas Michell of
Cannington. I suspect this last is likely a descendant of the Thomas
Michell who mar. Margaret [or Mary] Fitzjames, but I can't presently make
the connection. Any clues, anyone?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brad Verity" <royald...@hotmail.com>
To: <GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com>
Brad Verity
Thanks once again for looking through the pedigrees on these families.
Comments interspersed.
>From: "John Higgins" <jthi...@sbcglobal.net>
>Thanks for the VCH references, which in turn lead to some interesting
>references to look up in SLC next trip.
Great - please keep us informed. Also, the FHL in SLC has a copy of
Wedgwood's HOP, so you can look up the bio of John Fitzjames (d. 1510), as
well.
>As to the daughters of John Fitzjames (d. 1510), Weaver's visitation
>pedigree agrees with your sources as to their spouses, Thomas Michell and
>John Gilbert (although it calls Thomas Michell's wife Mary rather than
>Margaret).
The will of Thomas Michell (d. 1503) is available through PCC Online.
Hopefully it will shed further light.
>Weaver also carries the Gilbert descent in the Fitzjames pedigree a few
>generations further to connect to the wife of Sir William Portman, Lord
>Chief Justice (d. 1556/7).
Very good. Portman sounds distinguished enough that there ought to be
enough information to verify which family of Gilberts his wife was from.
>His wife Elizabeth Gilbert was dau. of John
>Gilbert by Christian, dau. of William Baskett, and John was in turn son of
>John Gifford and Elizabeth Fitzjames. I'd be curious to know if or how
>this
>Baskett is related to the Elizabeth Baskett you mention who was mar. to the
>son of Sir John Fitzjames the chief Justice.
It would seem they were related, Elizabeth Basket married to John Fitzjames,
esquire, and Christian Baskett, married to John Gilbert, first cousin of
John Fitzjames, esquire. My guess would be that John Basket, father of
Elizabeth, and William Basket, father of Christian, were brothers. Though
if the pedigree got the name of 'William' wrong, and it should have been
'John', then Elizabeth and Christian could have been sisters. But since
Elizabeth was an heiress, Christian could not be a full sister.
Half-sisters is possible as Elizabeth's manor of South Brewham came to her
through her mother, not her father.
>The Gilbert pedigree is also referenced on a separate page of Weaver, which
>I don't currently have a copy of. But a different visitation of Somerset,
>the one of 1623 published as vol. 11 of the Harleian Society, includes in
>its pedigree of Portman a typically skeletal pedigree of Gilbert which
>takes
>the family back several generations (without dates of course and with only
>a
>few spouses). But this sequence of Gilberts does not match at all to any
>of
>the Gilbert families in Vivian's Devon, so if it's indeed accurate it's
>likely a separate family entirely.
Agreed. Probably with lands in Somerset rather than Devonshire. Only
slightly related question: is it 'Somerset' or 'Somersetshire'?
>A somewhat related question: the Chief Justice Sir William Portman had a
>son Sir Henry (d. 1590) who was mar. to Joan, dau. of Thomas Michell of
>Cannington. I suspect this last is likely a descendant of the Thomas
>Michell who mar. Margaret [or Mary] Fitzjames, but I can't presently make
>the connection. Any clues, anyone?
The Michells are coverered somewhat sketchily by VCH Somerset's article on
Durleigh, which covers the manor Michell manor of East Chilton. It is
online at:
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.asp?compid=18515
The Michells did not hold the chief manor of Cannington, but rather three
sub-manors within it: Clayhill, Dodesham & Pillock, which are covered by the
Cannington article in VCH Somerset.
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.asp?compid=18556
Thomas Michell (d. 1539), the son and heir of Thomas Michell (d. 1503),
married Joan Warre, daughter of Thomas Warre, of Hestercombe, Somerset, by
his wife Jane Malet. The younger Thomas murdered his wife Joan, and her
sister, then killed himself. Joan Michell, the wife of Sir Henry Portman
(d. 1590), would likely be the daughter of this tragic couple, as their son
and heir was named Richard (d. 1563), not 'Thomas'.
Thanks and Cheers, -----------Brad