Ancestry of Alianor le Strange, wife of Reynold de Grey
DadG...@aol.com
In part 2 of his post on the ancestry of Elizabeth Fitz Hugh dated 4/4/00
1:08:50 PM, U...@aol.com writes:
[snip of material not related to this question]
<< 22. Roger le Strange (Source: CP, 1:339.), born Abt. 1327 in of
Knockin,
Salop, ENG (Source: Complete Peerage, by Cokayne, Vol V, pp 426-431); died 26
August 1381. He was the son of Roger le Strange and Maud. He married 23.
Alaive FitzAlan.
23. Alaive FitzAlan She was the daughter of Edmund Fitz Alan and Alice
de Warenne.
Children of Roger and Alaive FitzAlan are:
i. Isabel le Strange, died Aft. 1366; married James Audley Bef.
December 1351; born 08 January 1312/13 in Knesale, NTT, ENG; died 01 April
1386 in Heleigh, STS, ENG.
ii. Alianor le Strange (Source: Plantagenet Ancestors of 17th Century
Colonists.), died 20 April 1396; married Reynold de Grey; born Abt. 1319;
died 04 August 1388 (Source: Plantagenet Ancestors of 17th Century
Colonists.).
11 iii. Lucy le Strange, born 1367; died 1405; married William
Willoughby.
iv. John le Strange (Source: BxP, 370.), born in of Knocking; married
Maud de Mohun. >>
I have found the reference in Faris, 2nd Edition, on page 314 which describes
Alianore Strange ( ii in the above post) as wife of Reynold Grey, 2nd Lord
Grey of Ruthin, co. Denbigh and daughter of "Roger le Strange, Knt., of
Knockin, co. Salop (descendant of Charlemagne)".
However, on page 17 Faris describes Lucy (11 iii in the above post) as
daughter of "Roger Le Strange, Lord Strange of Knockyn, co. Salop (descendant
of Charlemagne)". The slightly different descriptions of the two Roger le
Stranges raises the question of whether one reference is to the Roger (1327 -
1381) who married Alaive FitzAlan and the other reference is to his father,
Roger (1301 - 1349) whose wife was named Maud. Faris does not identify the
mothers of Alianore and Lucy. Can anyone clarify this possible ambiguity?
To further compound my confusion, I have seen reference in at least one web
site that the Eleanor Strange who married Reynold Grey was actually the
daughter of John Strange of Blackmere, 2nd Lord Strange (1306 - 1349) and
Ankaret le Boteler (1316-1361).
Does anyone have access to original source material that definitively
establishes the ancestry of Eleanor Strange, wife of Reynold de Grey?
Thanks for any help.
John Stuart
Douglas Richardson
In the current draft of the forthcoming Magna Carta book,
Alianor le Strange (wife of Reynold de Grey) is identified as
the daughter of Roger le Strange, Knt., 4th Lord Strange, of
Knockyn, co, Salop, by his lst wife, Maud. Thus, she would be
the sister, not daughter, of Roger le Strange, 5th Lord Strange,
of Knockyn, who married Aline (not Alaive) Fitz Alan below.
I don't have any of the Strange sources in front of me, but this
placement of Alianor in the Strange family tree would seem to be
correct chronologically. Alianor le Strange's husband, Reynold
de Grey, was born about 1319 (being aged 67 in 1386). Aline
Fitz Alan's husband, Roger le Strange, 5th Lord Strange, was
born about 1326 (being aged 22 or 23 at his father's death).
Thus Alianor and Roger, 5th Lord Strange, would seem to be of
the same generation.
As for Lucy le Strange, I note her husband, William Willoughby,
was born about 1370 (being aged 24 at his father's death). As
such, that couple appear to be a generation later than Alianor
le Strange who married Reynold de Grey.
I trust that answers your question. Best always, Douglas
Richardson
E-mail: royala...@msn.com
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Adrian Channing
CP 1:339/40
He [James Audley/Aldithley) Ld Audley] m., 2ndly, before Dec 1351, Isabel,
said to have been da of Roger (Le Strange) 5th Lord Strange of Knokyn. CP
Vol XIV (additions and corrections) states that Roger 5th Lord Strange was
not born till c1326 and m. as a child in or before 1338.
So CP "said to have been" could not confirm this marriage and Vol XIV
infers it was hardly possible..
CP V: 426-431. At a quick look the only ref I can see is p 427:
...He [William FitzHugh, Lord FitzHugh] m., at Ravensworth, before 18 Nov
1406, Margery, da. of Sir William DE WILLOUGHBY, of Eresby, co. Lincoln
[Lord WILLOUGHBY], by his 1st wife, Lucy, da. of Sir Roger LESTRAUNGE, of
Knockin, Salop [Lord LESTRAUNGE]. He [ie William] d 22 Oct 1452. His wife
predeceased him.
So this would be the Lucy Le Strange = William de Willoughby you have from
Faris.
Under Vol XII (i) Strange or Lestrange (of Knokyn)
ROGER 4Ld Strange (br of 3Ld and by 1335 found to be heir of his uncle
Ebles Lestrange who had m Alice Cts of Lincoln) b 15 Aug 1301. He m1 Maud
[mother of his heir Roger, but no more details of her given] and m2 before
25 March 1344 Joan d&ch (eventually h) of Oliver (DE INGHAM) LORD INGHAM,
He d 29 July 1349 in the manor of Sedgebrook, Lincs; , she m2 Sir Miles de
Stapleton KG and died before 12 Dec 1365.
]
ROGER 5Ld, aged 22 or 23 at his father's death; m in or before 1338 Aline
or Alaine da of Edmund (FitzAlan) Earl of Arundel by Alice d of William de
Warenne. He died 23 Aug 1382 at "Kenewyleswode" in the March of Wales, she
d 20 Jan 1385/6.
seeing it was the 2nd Roger who m Aline/Alaine, perhaps this indicates it
was this Roger who was father of the Alianore you mention. I cannot see he
and Lucy mentioned in CP.
I hope this helps a little, in haste
Adrian
© Adrian (Surrey, UK) ACha...@CompuServe.Com
DadG...@aol.com
In response to my question about which Roger le Strange was the father of
<< Dear John:
In the current draft of the forthcoming Magna Carta book,
Alianor le Strange (wife of Reynold de Grey) is identified as
the daughter of Roger le Strange, Knt., 4th Lord Strange, of
Knockyn, co, Salop, by his lst wife, Maud. Thus, she would be
the sister, not daughter, of Roger le Strange, 5th Lord Strange,
of Knockyn, who married Aline (not Alaive) Fitz Alan below.
I don't have any of the Strange sources in front of me, but this
placement of Alianor in the Strange family tree would seem to be
correct chronologically. Alianor le Strange's husband, Reynold
de Grey, was born about 1319 (being aged 67 in 1386). Aline
Fitz Alan's husband, Roger le Strange, 5th Lord Strange, was
born about 1326 (being aged 22 or 23 at his father's death).
Thus Alianor and Roger, 5th Lord Strange, would seem to be of
the same generation.
As for Lucy le Strange, I note her husband, William Willoughby,
was born about 1370 (being aged 24 at his father's death). As
such, that couple appear to be a generation later than Alianor
le Strange who married Reynold de Grey.
I trust that answers your question. Best always, Douglas
Richardson >>
Douglas,
Many thanks for your reply. Your comments about the chronology reinforce my
tentative thoughts about this placement. I am looking forward to the
publication of your Magna Carta book. Will the final version contain source
references on Alianor's ancestry, or is she too removed from the direct lines
you will be discussing to merit such detail?
Best regards,
John Stuart
DadG...@aol.com
In a message dated 4/12/00 1:02:44 PM, ACha...@compuserve.com writes:
<< I have had a quick look at the two CP refs you mention:
CP 1:339/40
He [James Audley/Aldithley) Ld Audley] m., 2ndly, before Dec 1351, Isabel,
said to have been da of Roger (Le Strange) 5th Lord Strange of Knokyn. CP
Vol XIV (additions and corrections) states that Roger 5th Lord Strange was
not born till c1326 and m. as a child in or before 1338.
So CP "said to have been" could not confirm this marriage and Vol XIV
infers it was hardly possible..
[snip of response related to other parts of original query]
I hope this helps a little, in haste
Adrian>>
>
>
> In part 2 of his post on the ancestry of Elizabeth Fitz Hugh dated 4/4/00
> 1:08:50 PM, U...@aol.com writes:
>
> [snip of material not related to this question]
>
> << 22. Roger le Strange (Source: CP, 1:339.), born Abt. 1327 in of
> Knockin,
> Salop, ENG (Source: Complete Peerage, by Cokayne, Vol V, pp 426-431); died
26
> August 1381. He was the son of Roger le Strange and Maud. He married 23.
> Alaive FitzAlan.
> 23. Alaive FitzAlan She was the daughter of Edmund Fitz Alan and
Alice
> de Warenne.
>
>
>
> Children of Roger and Alaive FitzAlan are:
>
> i. Isabel le Strange, died Aft. 1366; married James Audley Bef.
> December 1351; born 08 January 1312/13 in Knesale, NTT, ENG; died 01 April
> 1386 in Heleigh, STS, ENG. >>
[snip of more material not related to this part of original query]
Adrian,
Thanks for pointing out this inconsistency regarding Isabel. I had
originally focused only on Lucy and Alianor from Dave's original post and had
missed this point. Do you have any clue as to where this Isabel fits in the
Strange family?
John Stuart