Venables genealogy
Ronald Strout
Venables name in three places and would like to know more of their ancestry
and how they may be connected. Here is what I have...
Margery Venables (b. 1369) m. Randle Mainwaring. What is her ancestry?
Angella Venables (b. 1350) m. William Brereton. Her father is(?) Hugh De
Venables. What is Ancestry?
Amabillia Venables (b. abt 1147) m. Richard Davenport. What is ancestry?
I am hoping to get some answers on this mailing list.
Ronald Strout
36 Dunning Blvd
Bangor, ME 04401
04401
Henry Sutliff
Ronald Strout wrote:
<snip>
I believe all three of these ladies are ancestors to Oliver Manawring of New
London, CT who is ancestor to a number of us on this list.
Depending on the reliability of the following source (Henrietta Brady Brown,
Some Venables of England and America, Kinderton Press, Cincinnati, 1961), the
answers to your questions are:
Margery and Angela de Venables are sisters, being daughters of Hugh de Venables
of Kinderton, Cheshire (d. 1383) by his wife Margery de Cotton of Rudheth,
Cheshire (d. aft 1398). Your birthdate for Angela seems much too early as I
have her marriage in 1391 with children following. Hugh had a second marriage
to an Ellen de Huxlegh, so I am not positive both daughters were of the same
marriage.
Amabil was daughter of Gilbert de Venables and his wife Margery ________. This
Gilbert (ancestor of Hugh above) was almost certainly a descendant of Giselbert
de Venables, Domesday tenant of Earl Hugh. (See: Domesday People: A
Prosopography of Persons Occurring in English Documents, 1066-1166, by
Katharine S. B. Keats-Rohan, Boydell Press, 1999, p. 212).
Hope this helps and hope someone else will correct if this is incorrect.
Henry Sutliff
Kay Robinson
I have a Joan de Venables of Cheshire marrying Thomas de Latham
(c1330-1381) but no ancestry for her. If this is the same family do
you have anything on her parentage?
Thanks.
Kay
Please note that dial in my sig is spelt wrong
Kay Robinson <ad...@dail.pipex.com>
=================================================
Researching: Ward; Moncreiff; Stafford; Howard;
Eyre; Jones; Blount; Stanley; Fitzherbert
Paul Mackenzie
Kay Robinson wrote:
I have a Sir Alexander de Veneables of Cheshire marrying in 1344 Joan Folliot. Any
info on the children?
Regards Paul
Henry Sutliff
Kay Robinson wrote:
<snip>
>
> >Depending on the reliability of the following source (Henrietta Brady Brown,
> >Some Venables of England and America, Kinderton Press, Cincinnati, 1961), the
> >answers to your questions are:
>
> <snip>
>
> I have a Joan de Venables of Cheshire marrying Thomas de Latham
> (c1330-1381) but no ancestry for her. If this is the same family do
> you have anything on her parentage?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Kay
>
> Please note that dial in my sig is spelt wrong
With the same caveat as to the validity of the lines presented in the Brown book,
Joan is the daughter of Hugh de Venables (d. 1368) of Kinderton, Cheshire and his
wife Katharine de Hoghton of Hoghton Tower, Lancs. If this is correct, then Joan is
sister of the Hugh who was father of Angela and Margery in the previous post.
At the very least if this is not correct, you will find some new names to search.
Best regards,
Henry Sutliff
G . EDWARD ALLEN
>
> On 7 Jun 1999 10:13:27 -0700 ss...@earthlink.net (Henry Sutliff)
> sharpened a new quill and wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >Ronald Strout wrote:
> >
> >> I am working on my daught-in-law's genealogy. I have discovered the
> >> Venables name in three places and would like to know more of their ancestry
> >> and how they may be connected. Here is what I have...
> >>
> >> Margery Venables (b. 1369) m. Randle Mainwaring. What is her ancestry?
> >>
> >> Angella Venables (b. 1350) m. William Brereton. Her father is(?) Hugh De
> >> Venables. What is Ancestry?
> >>
> >> Amabillia Venables (b. abt 1147) m. Richard Davenport. What is ancestry?
> >>
> >> I am hoping to get some answers on this mailing list.
> >>
> >
> ><snip>
> >
> >I believe all three of these ladies are ancestors to Oliver Manawring of New
> >London, CT who is ancestor to a number of us on this list.
> >
> >Some Venables of England and America, Kinderton Press, Cincinnati, 1961), the
> >answers to your questions are:
> >
> >of Kinderton, Cheshire (d. 1383) by his wife Margery de Cotton of Rudheth,
> >Cheshire (d. aft 1398). Your birthdate for Angela seems much too early as I
> >have her marriage in 1391 with children following. Hugh had a second marriage
> >to an Ellen de Huxlegh, so I am not positive both daughters were of the same
> >marriage.
> >
> >Amabil was daughter of Gilbert de Venables and his wife Margery ________. This
> >Gilbert (ancestor of Hugh above) was almost certainly a descendant of Giselbert
> >de Venables, Domesday tenant of Earl Hugh. (See: Domesday People: A
> >Prosopography of Persons Occurring in English Documents, 1066-1166, by
> >Katharine S. B. Keats-Rohan, Boydell Press, 1999, p. 212).
Margery is supposed to be dtr. of Waltheof, son of Wolfric of Hatton.
> >
> >Hope this helps and hope someone else will correct if this is incorrect.
> >
> >Henry Sutliff
>
> I have a Joan de Venables of Cheshire marrying Thomas de Latham
> (c1330-1381) but no ancestry for her. If this is the same family do
> you have anything on her parentage?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Kay
>
> Please note that dial in my sig is spelt wrong
>
> Kay Robinson <ad...@dail.pipex.com>
> =================================================
> Researching: Ward; Moncreiff; Stafford; Howard;
> Eyre; Jones; Blount; Stanley; Fitzherbert
Ormerod's Hist. Ches.:
1. Joan.
2. Sir Hugh of Kinderton; d. 1353.
3. Katherine Houghton
4. Hugh Venables of Kinderton;
5. Agatha Vernon
6. Richard Hoghton.
8. William Venables of Kinderton; d. 1292.
9. Margaret Dutton of Dutton; d. after 1292.
16. Roger Venables.
17. Alice Peninton.
18. Thomas Dutton.
19. Philippa Standon.
32. Sir Hugh Venables; b. before 1228; d. after 1249.
33.Agnes de Oxton.
64. Sir William Venables; b. before 1188; d. ca. 1228.
Henry Sutliff
Paul Mackenzie wrote:
> <snip>
>
> > >
> > >Depending on the reliability of the following source (Henrietta Brady Brown,
> > >Some Venables of England and America, Kinderton Press, Cincinnati, 1961), the
> > >answers to your questions are:
>
<snip>
>
> I have a Sir Alexander de Veneables of Cheshire marrying in 1344 Joan Folliot. Any
> info on the children?
>
> Regards Paul
The pages of the Brown book which I photocopied do not show Alexander. However, as I
descend from Joan Foliot's marriage to Nicholas de Percy of Kildale, Yorks. I also
have an interest in this identification. Joan was likely born before 1300. Nicholas
died in 1324 and Joan's second husband John de Maltravers died bef. 5 Jul 1344. As
Joan died in 1349, it would seem to be chronologically tight for Joan to be still of
child bearing age at the time of her marriage to Sir Alexander Venables. This is just
an observation, not based on known fact.
Best regards,
Henry Sutliff
G . EDWARD ALLEN
>
> Kay Robinson wrote:
>
> > On 7 Jun 1999 10:13:27 -0700 ss...@earthlink.net (Henry Sutliff)
> > sharpened a new quill and wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >Ronald Strout wrote:
> > >
> > >> I am working on my daught-in-law's genealogy. I have discovered the
> > >> Venables name in three places and would like to know more of their ancestry
> > >> and how they may be connected. Here is what I have...
> > >>
> > >> Margery Venables (b. 1369) m. Randle Mainwaring. What is her ancestry?
> > >>
> > >> Angella Venables (b. 1350) m. William Brereton. Her father is(?) Hugh De
> > >> Venables. What is Ancestry?
> > >>
> > >> Amabillia Venables (b. abt 1147) m. Richard Davenport. What is ancestry?
> > >>
> > >> I am hoping to get some answers on this mailing list.
> > >>
> > >
> > ><snip>
> > >
> > >I believe all three of these ladies are ancestors to Oliver Manawring of New
> > >London, CT who is ancestor to a number of us on this list.
> > >
> > >Some Venables of England and America, Kinderton Press, Cincinnati, 1961), the
> > >answers to your questions are:
> > >
> > >of Kinderton, Cheshire (d. 1383) by his wife Margery de Cotton of Rudheth,
> > >Cheshire (d. aft 1398). Your birthdate for Angela seems much too early as I
> > >have her marriage in 1391 with children following. Hugh had a second marriage
> > >to an Ellen de Huxlegh, so I am not positive both daughters were of the same
> > >marriage.
> > >
> > >Amabil was daughter of Gilbert de Venables and his wife Margery ________. This
> > >Gilbert (ancestor of Hugh above) was almost certainly a descendant of Giselbert
> > >de Venables, Domesday tenant of Earl Hugh. (See: Domesday People: A
> > >Prosopography of Persons Occurring in English Documents, 1066-1166, by
> > >Katharine S. B. Keats-Rohan, Boydell Press, 1999, p. 212).
> > >
> > >
> > >Henry Sutliff
> >
> > I have a Joan de Venables of Cheshire marrying Thomas de Latham
> > (c1330-1381) but no ancestry for her. If this is the same family do
> > you have anything on her parentage?
> >
>
> info on the children?
>
> Regards Paul
I do not find an Alexander in Ormerod's recitation of the Venables of
Kinderton.
Kay Allen AG
G . EDWARD ALLEN
>
> Ronald Strout wrote:
>
> > I am working on my daught-in-law's genealogy. I have discovered the
> > Venables name in three places and would like to know more of their ancestry
> > and how they may be connected. Here is what I have...
> >
> > Margery Venables (b. 1369) m. Randle Mainwaring. What is her ancestry?
> >
> > Angella Venables (b. 1350) m. William Brereton. Her father is(?) Hugh De
> > Venables. What is Ancestry?
> >
> > Amabillia Venables (b. abt 1147) m. Richard Davenport. What is ancestry?
> >
> > I am hoping to get some answers on this mailing list.
> >
>
> <snip>
>
> I believe all three of these ladies are ancestors to Oliver Manawring of New
> London, CT who is ancestor to a number of us on this list.
>
> Depending on the reliability of the following source (Henrietta Brady Brown,
> Some Venables of England and America, Kinderton Press, Cincinnati, 1961), the
> answers to your questions are:
>
> Margery and Angela de Venables are sisters, being daughters of Hugh de Venables
> of Kinderton, Cheshire (d. 1383) by his wife Margery de Cotton of Rudheth,
> Cheshire (d. aft 1398). Your birthdate for Angela seems much too early as I
> have her marriage in 1391 with children following. Hugh had a second marriage
> to an Ellen de Huxlegh, so I am not positive both daughters were of the same
> marriage.
According to Ormerod, Anilla, the wife of William Brereton is dtr. of
Sir Hugh and Agatha Vernon. She married in 1386.
Margery is the dtr. of Hugh and Margery Cotton.
G . EDWARD ALLEN
>
> Ronald Strout wrote:
>
> > I am working on my daught-in-law's genealogy. I have discovered the
> > Venables name in three places and would like to know more of their ancestry
> > and how they may be connected. Here is what I have...
> >
> > Margery Venables (b. 1369) m. Randle Mainwaring. What is her ancestry?
> >
> > Angella Venables (b. 1350) m. William Brereton. Her father is(?) Hugh De
> > Venables. What is Ancestry?
> >
> > Amabillia Venables (b. abt 1147) m. Richard Davenport. What is ancestry?
> >
> > I am hoping to get some answers on this mailing list.
> >
>
> <snip>
>
> I believe all three of these ladies are ancestors to Oliver Manawring of New
> London, CT who is ancestor to a number of us on this list.
>
> Depending on the reliability of the following source (Henrietta Brady Brown,
> Some Venables of England and America, Kinderton Press, Cincinnati, 1961), the
> answers to your questions are:
>
> Margery and Angela de Venables are sisters, being daughters of Hugh de Venables
> of Kinderton, Cheshire (d. 1383) by his wife Margery de Cotton of Rudheth,
> Cheshire (d. aft 1398). Your birthdate for Angela seems much too early as I
> have her marriage in 1391 with children following. Hugh had a second marriage
> to an Ellen de Huxlegh, so I am not positive both daughters were of the same
> marriage.
OOps, Anilla dtr. of Sir Hugh and Katherine Hoghton.
Kay Allen AG
Kay Robinson
sharpened a new quill and wrote:
>Kay Robinson wrote:
>
><snip>
>> I have a Joan de Venables of Cheshire marrying Thomas de Latham
>> (c1330-1381) but no ancestry for her. If this is the same family do
>> you have anything on her parentage?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Kay
>
>With the same caveat as to the validity of the lines presented in the Brown book,
>Joan is the daughter of Hugh de Venables (d. 1368) of Kinderton, Cheshire and his
>wife Katharine de Hoghton of Hoghton Tower, Lancs. If this is correct, then Joan is
>sister of the Hugh who was father of Angela and Margery in the previous post.
>
>At the very least if this is not correct, you will find some new names to search.
>
>Best regards,
>
>Henry Sutliff
Thanks Henry, and Kay for your help. Much appreciated.