Agnes of the Isles (Macdonold) Wife of John Montgomery of
Richard Borthwick
>To whom it may concern
>Does any of you learned individuals on this list know as to who the
>mother of Agnes of the isles MacDonald is.
>The father is John MacDonald born about 1300 son of Angus "OG" Macdonald
>and his wife Agnes O'Cathon
>The wifes i have are Margaret Stewart princess of scotland and Amy
>MacRaurx "of the Isles"
>I would of cource prefer margaret Stewart but i think her mother is amy
>MacRaurx.
>Any Help any one?????
>Sincerely
>RAY
>
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Agnes who m. John Lamont of Inveryne (marriage dispensation 1466) was the
dau. Sir John of the Isles (executed Edinburgh 1499) son of Donald Balloch
(d.1476/81) son of John of Dunivaig and the Glens (d. in or before 1427) by
his wife Mary or Marjorie Bisset (heiress to the Glens of Antrim). This John
was the son of John lord of the Isles by Margaret Stewart his second wife.
[*Acts of the Lords of the Isles 1336-1493* (Ediburgh, 1986), pp.293-295,
edited by Jean Munro & R W Munro. A publication of the Scottish History Society]
Leo van de Pas
I am following your quest because I am interested as well. However,
I think you did not ask your question clearly enough. All the bits are
there but not together. The identifying bit about this Agnes is her
husband---but he is in the subject. And you would be surprised how many
do not read that, obviously the kind person who tried to help didn't
as apparently he found the wrong Agnes for you.
Leo van de Pas
Richard Borthwick
Isles by an unknown woman (not excluding his wives). [same ref. as below
p.298]. Sorry for the muddle.
Leo van de Pas
as I feel insecure, even with the updated answer. Not being familiar with
the equivalent names in Scotland, I think I found the Lord of the Isles
who as a second wife had Margaret Stewart :
Eoin "the Good", Lord of The Isles, High Chief of the Clan Donald
born............, died circa 1387 Ardtoish Castle
married (1) Amie/Euphemia heiress of the MacRuaris (Amy MacRaurx)
married (2) contract 14 June 1350 Lady Margaret Stewart
children, 1st marriage Ranald, 2nd marriage Donald, John, Alasdair and Mary
No Agnes------but that could mean, perhaps, illegitimate. What, for me, is
an indication for illegitimacy, if she is the daughter of Eoin/John, is looking
at dates. Eoin/John married in 1350 (2nd) and died in 1387.
Agnes married John Montgomery and their son, Alexander Montgomery, 1st Baron
Montgomery, was born "before 1413". How old would Agnes have been "before 1413"?
Say, 23 in 1413, would make her born about 1390 and if it is "before", lets say
1387, the year her supposed father died. If she is born, even in 1380, would
Lady Margaret Stewart have given birth some 30 years after her marriage?
These dates, to me, certainly leaves out Amy MacRaurx. I feel we are not
much closer to an answer----but, I would love to see "Acts of the Lords of the
Isles 1336-1493".
Leo van de Pas
Suzanne Doig
wrote:
>No Agnes------but that could mean, perhaps, illegitimate. What, for me, is
>an indication for illegitimacy, if she is the daughter of Eoin/John, is looking
>at dates. Eoin/John married in 1350 (2nd) and died in 1387.
Are we sure that Agnes is a daughter of this Eion/John?
>Agnes married John Montgomery and their son, Alexander Montgomery, 1st Baron
>Montgomery, was born "before 1413". How old would Agnes have been "before 1413"?
>Say, 23 in 1413, would make her born about 1390 and if it is "before", lets say
>1387, the year her supposed father died. If she is born, even in 1380, would
>Lady Margaret Stewart have given birth some 30 years after her marriage?
>These dates, to me, certainly leaves out Amy MacRaurx. I feel we are not
>much closer to an answer----but, I would love to see "Acts of the Lords of the
>Isles 1336-1493".
It may not be as impossible as it looks for Margaret Stewart to be
Agnes' mother. Here is a possible scenario:
Margaret a was daughter of Robert II and Elizabeth Mure, who may or
may not have been married at the time. Regardless, the date for the
start of their relationship seems to have been put at c1336, when
Robert was 20. If Margaret were the eldest daughter, she may have been
15 or 16 *tops* at the time of her marriage contract. So, it is not
wholly impossible that a woman married at 15 might still be having
children at 45. It may well be that Margaret was a good deal younger
than 15 at the time of the marriage, making childbirth well into the
1370s a firm possibility.
To continue: Agnes and John Montgomerie had at least five children
before Agnes' death before March 1414 (I have mislaid the source for
that date, but it may well be Burke's Peerage under one of the
Montgomery lines). This is presumably where the 'before 1413' birth
date for their son Alexander comes from, especially as he had at least
2 younger brothers. So it is likely that Agnes started her family some
time about or before 1405.
It seems that we have a band of quite a few years around 1375-1380 for
a possible birth date for Agnes, making it perfectly possible that she
was Margaret's ?youngest? daughter.
Suzanne
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Richard Borthwick
>On 6 Aug 1998 02:49:35 -0700, leov...@iinet.net.au (Leo van de Pas)
>wrote:
>
>>No Agnes------but that could mean, perhaps, illegitimate. What, for me, is
>>an indication for illegitimacy, if she is the daughter of Eoin/John, is
looking
>>at dates. Eoin/John married in 1350 (2nd) and died in 1387.
>
>Are we sure that Agnes is a daughter of this Eion/John?
There no direct or primary evidence (as distinct from traditional pedigrees)
that I can find (none is cited in *Acts of the Lords of the Isles*) to prove
that Agnes was a dau. of John de Yle (or de Insulis in some documents), Lord
of the Isles (Dominus Insularum), son of Angus Og de Yle/Ylis by Aine Ni
Cathan dau. of Cu-maige na nGal O Cathan. John had a Papal dispensation
(dated 4 June 1337) to marry his cousin Amy MacRuari and another (dated 18
July 1350) to marry Margaret Stewart. Agnes' son, Alexander Montgomerie,
lord of Ardrossan, witnesses under that style a charter of John de Yle earl
of Ross and lord of the Isles. The notarial instrument for the charter is
dated 18 June 1456. The editors of the *Acts of the Acts of the Lords of the
Isles* (p.271) says of Alexander Montgomerie "His mother [Agnes] was
probably a daughter of John, lord of the Isles, and Margaret Stewart....".
The "probably" would appear to apply to both John and Margaret. I hope this
is of some help.