Yet another Complete Peerage error?
leo van de pas
intrigued by the answer and wanted to see what I had about these people
involved.
Spencer's answer was (reduced)
He married Muriel, daughter and heiress of Sir John de Soules---before 1307.
Muriel's mother is Hawise, sister opf Sir James FitzAlan, Steward of
Scotland. Muriel died in 1318.
As I am always intrigued with lines to the early Stewart family I was
surprised I did not have that link in my system.
The Complete Peerage, Volume VIII pages 205,206
This seems to be the source for the remarks of Spencer Hines.
There have been seven (High) Stewards of Scotland.
Walter FitzAlan, 1st High Steward (his brother is an ancestor of the Earls
of Arundel) He died in 1177
Alan, 2nd High Steward he died in 1204
Walter 3rd High Steward (He took the surname of Stewart)
he died in 1241
Alexander, 4th High Steward, born 1214 died 1283
James, 5th High Steward born ca.1243, died 1309
Walter, 6th High Steward, born 1292, died 1326
Robert, 7th High Steward and became Robert II, King of Scots.
I was surprised to see James (5th High Steward) referred to as James
FitzAlan as it was his grandfather who adopted the Stewart surname, those
FitzAlans surely were sloppy with their surnames. It can only be this James
whose sister, Hawise, married Sir John de Soules.
The Story of the Stewarts
printed for the Stewart Society, Edinburgh, 1901
This gives Alexander, 4th High Steward, the following children
1.James, 5th Lord High Steward
2.Sir John Stewart, of Bonkyl
3.Elizabeth, married to Sir William Douglas "the Hardy"
no Hawise
The Lineage & Ancestry of HRH Prince Charles, Prince of Wales, by Gerald
Paget Volume I, page 212
This gives Alexander, 4th High Steward, the following children
1.James, succeeded his father
2.Elizabeth, married Sir William Douglas (the Hardy) (died in the Tower of
London before 24 January 1296)
3.(Sir) John of Bonkyl (see below)
no Hawise
Burke's Peerage, 1999 edition, page 1985 and 1989
Alexander Stewart, 4th Gt Steward of Scotland
has the following children
1.JAMES
2.John (Sir), of Bonkyl
3.Elizabeth, m.Sir William Douglas of that Ilk, called "The Bold" (died a
prisoner of the English in the Tower of London 1298)
no Hawise
Was Hawise illegitimate? It seems, to me, such a strange designation "sister
of James FitzAlan, Steward of Scotland", why wasn't her father mentioned? A
footnote in CP may half answer that question "Hawise had from her brother
two-thirds of the Town of Old Roxzburgh in free marriage, and her right
descended to the Lovels."
She seems to have been provided for, thus leaving a paper-trail----why isn't
she recorded in genealogical works in regards to the Stewart Family? Can
anyone answer this?
Many thanks
Leo van de Pas
D. Spencer Hines
Hopefully we can run down "Sir James FitzAlan, Steward of Scotland".
Leo van de Pas is asking the same questions I have. Super.
Yes, the CP Entry [VIII:205-206] is curious.
Volume XIV has nothing to add.
Also, we have Sir James as "Steward" ---- not "High Steward". Vide
supra.
Significant ---- Or Trivial? Or Just Sloppy?
Deus Vult.
From: "Allen John Mallory" <allen....@snet.net>
To: "D. Spencer Hines" <D._Spence...@aya.yale.edu>
Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2002 8:58 PM
Subject: Re: SIR RICHARD LOVEL, 1ST BARON LOVEL OF CASTLE CARY, SOMERSET
Thank you.
Allen John Mallory
Danbury, Connecticut
allen....@snet.net
"One has to belong to the intelligentsia to believe things like that: no
ordinary man could be such a fool."
George Orwell (Eric Arthur Blair) [1903-1950] ---- _Notes on
Nationalism_, May, 1945
All replies to the newsgroup please. Thank you kindly.
All original material contained herein is copyright and property of the
author. It may be quoted only in discussions on this forum and with an
attribution to the author, unless permission is otherwise expressly
given, in writing.
---------
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor.
"leo van de pas" <leov...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:006201c1d24a$4f6c6040$649c8a90@leo...
| Spencer Hines kindly answered the question of Allen John Mallory. I
| was intrigued by the answer and wanted to see what I had about
| these people involved.
|
| Spencer's answer was (reduced)
|
| He married Muriel, daughter and heiress of Sir John de Soules---before
| 1307.
|
| Muriel's mother is Hawise, sister of Sir James FitzAlan, Steward of