Re: Hounding the BASKERVILLES
Millerf...@aol.com
On 1st Feb Louise Staley posted
<snip>
The main Eardisley Castle Baskerville seems to be;
<1. Sir John = Elizabeth Tuchet
<2. Sir James = Sybil Devereux
<3. Sir Walter = Anna verch Morgan
<4. Sir James = Elizabeth Breynton
<5. Humphrey = Eleanor Gwillim
<snip>
I can confirm this line. There are IPMs for Sir James (E 150/408/1, dated
1499),
who was made Knight of the Bath at Henry VII's coronation, and for Sir Walter
(1508), made KB at Prince Arthur's marriage. The second Sir James in Louise's
list left a Will PROB 11/31, proved in 1546, and so did his grandson John,
son of Humphrey (PROB 11/94, proved in 1599).
Furthermore there are Wills for two of the older sons of the second Sir
James,
namely James, sheriff of Hereford in 34 Hen VIII (PROB 11/56, proved in 1573)
and Sir Thomas Baskerville of Brinsop (PROB 11/54, proved 1572), neither of
which
I have so far studied.
The reason why the last named was described as being "of Brinsop" was that he
was enjoying that estate as husband of Thomas Dansey's widow Eleanor,
daughter
and co-heiress of Richard Abington of Brockhampton.
I have not yet traced a Will or an IPM for John's father Humphrey.
Although there is a Will of a Humphrey Baskerville, Alderman of London
(PROB 11/47, proved in 1564), I see no reason at all to suppose that the
alderman was any close relation of Sir James (2). By his time, there were
already numerous branches of the family living in Shropshire, Wiltshire and
parts of Wales, as well as several in Herefordshire, for example the
Baskervilles of Netherwood, to one of whom this testator left a gold ring.
Sir James' second son John, also a sheriff of Hereford, has an IPM
(C142/181/116,
dated 1577/8). It was in his line, according to Duncumb's History of
Herefordshire,
that the family seat of Eardisley descended, as follows:-
!. The said John, who married Elizabeth Hergest
2. Humphrey, who married Elizabeth, d. of John Scudamore of Holme Lacy
3. John, d. 8th Jan 1588, who married Anna Southwell
(his younger brother Walter Baskerville has left a Will in PROB 11/57,
proved in 1575)
4. Sir Humphrey, married to Elizabeth, daughter of Sir Thomas Coningsby.
Sir Humphrey died 3rd April 1647. His monument is in Eardisley church,
according to Duncumb.
The Northampton RO, Cokayne (Ruston) collection, ref.3265, shows this Sir
Humphrey in secure possession of his "great park" at Eardisley in December
1615.
5. Thomas, married to Frances, d. of Francis Pember, by whom he had issue
including a son John.
In a later post Louise says:-
<snip>
<John Baskerville, son of Humphrey and Eleanor, was the
<eventual heir of Eardisley Castle and the pedigrees go into
<detail about how the youngest son of Sir James Baskerville
<and Elizabeth Breynton inherited.
<snip>
I think, Louise, that you are wrong on this, although I do agree with your
critique of the N&Q article to which you refer. The John Baskerville who
ultimately came to inherit the (by then ruined) castle of Eardisley in
the middle 1600s seems to me to have been the above-named John, grandson
of Sir Humphrey and Elizabeth Coningsby, and not the John proposed in
N&Q, nor yet the John son of Humphrey and Eleanor verch John ap Gwilym,
who had died some 60 years previously, as shown by his IPM (PROB 11/94,
proved in 1599).
The latter John was, as Duncumb shows, the progenitor of a long line of
Baskervilles of Aberedw, none of whom inherited Eardisley.
I am afraid I can throw no light on the ancestry of Humphrey Baskerville
the alderman, whose Will is preserved at PROB 11/47, proved in 1564. But,
whoever he was, no son of his stood to, or did, inherit Eardisley- and nor
did any son of the other Humphrey and his wife Eleanor verch John ap Gwilym.
It might be interesting to study the rubbings of the Baskerville Brasses in
Eardisley Church Vestry floor, which are held at the Herefordshire RO,
catalogue AF61, ref. E29/34.
There is an amazing wealth of documents preserved in the National Archives
[hint- search for bask*], which show that after the heroics of Sir John at
Agincourt succeeding generations of Baskervilles flexed their muscles in the
lawcourts rather than on the field of battle. Also the archives include
numerous IPMs and Wills which I did not need to look at for the purposes
of this note, but which would I think deserve an extended study.
Thanks for raising this interesting topic, Louise
MM
Louise Staley
As you may have seen from my later post, I have now had this will
transcribed and it is the foundation for my rejection of any close link
between Humphrey the alderman and the Eardisley line. As an aside, and
somewhat off-topic other information suggests that one of Humphrey the
alderman's brothers was the ancestor of the most famous Baskerville of
them all, John, inventor of the Baskerville font.
I see no reason at all to suppose that the
> alderman was any close relation of Sir James (2). By his time, there were
> already numerous branches of the family living in Shropshire, Wiltshire and
> parts of Wales, as well as several in Herefordshire, for example the
> Baskervilles of Netherwood, to one of whom this testator left a gold ring.
Although it appears Philip of Nethwerwood, father of the legatee Thomas,
was the third son of Sir James Baskerville and Sybil Devereux.
I completely agree with you Michael. My information on the branches of
the Baskervilles, apart from Humphrey the alderman, comes mainly from
Burkes and once again this source has proved its inadequacy.
The John Baskerville who
> ultimately came to inherit the (by then ruined) castle of Eardisley in
> the middle 1600s seems to me to have been the above-named John, grandson
> of Sir Humphrey and Elizabeth Coningsby, and not the John proposed in
> N&Q, nor yet the John son of Humphrey and Eleanor verch John ap Gwilym,
> who had died some 60 years previously, as shown by his IPM (PROB 11/94,
> proved in 1599).
> The latter John was, as Duncumb shows, the progenitor of a long line of
> Baskervilles of Aberedw, none of whom inherited Eardisley.
> I am afraid I can throw no light on the ancestry of Humphrey Baskerville
> the alderman, whose Will is preserved at PROB 11/47, proved in 1564. But,
> whoever he was, no son of his stood to, or did, inherit Eardisley- and nor
> did any son of the other Humphrey and his wife Eleanor verch John ap Gwilym.
> It might be interesting to study the rubbings of the Baskerville Brasses in
> Eardisley Church Vestry floor, which are held at the Herefordshire RO,
> catalogue AF61, ref. E29/34.
Yes, thank-you for alerting me to this option.
> There is an amazing wealth of documents preserved in the National Archives
> [hint- search for bask*], which show that after the heroics of Sir John at
> Agincourt succeeding generations of Baskervilles flexed their muscles in the
> lawcourts rather than on the field of battle.
Yes, this is another reason I became convinced Humphrey the alderman was
not intimately connected with the main line. He was extremely wealthy
for the times, while the Eardisley line were in the throes of their
decline and arguing over the spoils of defeat through the courts. I
think there would have been more legal interaction between them if they
were closely related.
Also the archives include
> numerous IPMs and Wills which I did not need to look at for the purposes
> of this note, but which would I think deserve an extended study.
>
Yes, I have searched on that, and in the PRO but not really found
anything I think related to Humphrey the alderman
> Thanks for raising this interesting topic, Louise
I am grateful for your participation and extensive documentation based
on primary sources. As far as I can see nobody has published on this
family in recent times despite there being various descendants claiming
to belong to it.
Louise
> MM
Matthew Connolly
> As far as I can see nobody has published on this
> family in recent times despite there being various descendants claiming
> to belong to it.
Dear Louise (and Michael, and anyone else with an interest),
I hadn't mentioned it as it wasn't relevant to your original question,
but if interested in the Baskervilles in general, and if you don't
already know it, there is an article on the earlier members of the
family by Herefordshire historian Bruce Coplestone-Crow. It is 'The
Baskervilles of Herefordshire, 1086-1300', in the Transactions of the
Woolhope Naturalists' Field Club XLIII (1979), pp18-39. The author
warns that some of it is partly conjectural, but it is well worth
seeing; and should be superior to Burke's. The only problem is that it
only goes down to 1300!
-Matthew
Millerf...@aol.com
I am a great admirer of their Transactions already, and look forward to
reading the Coplestone-Crow piece in vol.XLIII (1979) as soon as I can get back to
Hereford.
In the meantime, could you possibly help by giving us an abstract of the
author's main conclusions?
The line I have, as far as the reign of Edw II, derived from secondary
source such as Duncumb's Herefordshire, the Llyfr Baglan, and a splendid
manuscript volume of pedigrees in the HRO, goes thus:-
!. Sir Robert Baskerville
+ Agnes, d. of Galfred Rees of Wales
1.1 Sir Radulphus de B, lord of Eardisley temp. HII
+ d. of Drogo, Lord Clifford
1.1.1Sir Roger de B of Eardisley temp.
+ d. of Sir Rothes le Gros, lord of Orcop
1.1.1.1 Walter de B.
+ Susanna, d. of Sir Walter Crigdon
1.1.1.1.1 Robert B
1.1.1.1.2. Sir Walter de B
+ Sybil, d. of John Streaton
1.1.1.1.2.1 Joan, wife of Roger, Lord Clifford
1.1.1.1.2.2 Sybil, wife of Hugh de Kinnersley
1.1.1.1.3. Richard B., sheriff of Hereford 8 & 9 Edw II
+ d. of Solers, kt. (whence the continuing line of Eardisley
Baskervilles, with marriages with Corbet, Poyns, Paveley and Everingham daughters)
1.1.1.1.4. George B, lord of Pickthorne, Salop (whence the Shropshire line,
and also that of Weston, Hds)
1.1.1.1.5. Another Robert- no known marriage issue
Camden, in his Britannia, refers thus to the family:-
"Erdsley, where the ancient familie of the Baskervills have long inhabited,
which bred in ancient time so many worthy knights, who deduce their pedigree
from a neice [sic] of Dame Gunora that most famous Lady in Normandy, and long
ago flourished in this county and Shropshire adjoyning": I take the quote
from
_http://www.philological.bham.ac.uk/cambrit/contents.html_
(http://www.philological.bham.ac.uk/cambrit/contents.html)
where the University of Birmingham has reproduced Camden's book.
There are three intriguing Baskerviiles recorded in the Oxford DNB:
1. Thomas, son of Henry B and Ann Ratford, married to Mary, d. of Thomas
Throckmorton
(general of the fleet, buried Drake at sea), d. 1597
2. His son Hannibal, antiquary, 5 Apr 1597- March 1668
3. Hannibal's son Thomas, topographer, 1630-1700
I have not been able to attach these exciting Baskervilles to any pedigree
that I have seen.
So far as concerns Thomas the alderman of London, I have since replying to
Louise Staley's recent post had a look at the Shropshire Visitation for 1623
(Treswell, page 387), which can be seen on line if one gets into google books
via proxify.
A remarkable feature of the pedigree presented on this and the next page,
which gives an entirely conventional account of the Baskerville descent from
Sir James and his wife Elizabeth Touchet down to James, husband of Elizabeth
"Braynton" of Stretton, Salop, is that it shows Humphrey the alderman as fifth
son of this James and Elizabeth, and married to Joanna Packington, with the
six daughters Elizabeth Hungate, Angelica Maynard, Martha May, Anna Ducket,
Mary Gonston and Sarah Owen, wife of Thomas Owen, the well-known judge of the
King's Bench who is buried in Westminster Abbey, and whose brief biography
(describing him as the husband of Sarah, daughter of Humphrey Baskerville) is
in the Oxford DNB.
The same article gives a biography of his son Sir Roger Owen (1572-1617).
Both Thomas Owen and his son Roger were graduates of Christ Church, Oxford,
and Treasurers of Lincoln's Inn- which, as my friends will realise, makes me
predisposed to trust them and their close kin as reliable authorities on
genealogical matters.
The Shropshire pedigree is vouched for by Thomas Owen's youngest (5th) son
Sir William Owen, sheriff of Shropshire at the time of the visitation, but
who was living before the end of the 16th century, not long after the death of
his (in my present belief) grandfather Humphrey the Alderman, whose Will is
which I had rejected in my earlier posts, namely that Humphrey the alderman
was indeed a son of James Baskerville and Elizabeth Breynton.
As a result of this further effort I am convinced that the pedigrees on
which I relied in my earlier response to Louise Staley are unreliable. We must I
think look elsewhere for a credible ancestry for the Baskervilles of Aberedw,
and must welcome the alderman as a member of the main Baskerville of
Eardisley line.
MM
MM
WJho...@aol.com
Millerf...@aol.com writes:
<< There are three intriguing Baskerviiles recorded in the Oxford DNB:
1. Thomas, son of Henry B and Ann Ratford, married to Mary, d. of Thomas
Throckmorton
(general of the fleet, buried Drake at sea), d. 1597
2. His son Hannibal, antiquary, 5 Apr 1597- March 1668
3. Hannibal's son Thomas, topographer, 1630-1700 >>
I would be interested if someone had more on this Mary Throckmorton and how
she connects to the other Throckmortons.
Hannibal Baskerville was born at Saint Valery, Picardy *evidently* (?) while
his father General Thomas was on some sort of campaign. He himself states
(DNB) that he had the other generals as his godfathers. It's a little
interesting that Hannibal's wife would accompany him on a military campaign, but this
woman Mary Baskerville, was herself a daughter of Capt Nicholas Baskerville of
Eardisley by his wife Constance Huntley of Boxwell.
Hannibal and Mary were to have 18 children, 16 sons and two daughters as DNB
states.
Hannibal's father Thomas died in Picardy just about two months after the
birth of his son.
Did Mary Throckmorton remarry?
Thanks
Will Johnson
WJho...@aol.com
Millerf...@aol.com writes:
<< The Shropshire pedigree is vouched for by Thomas Owen's youngest (5th)
son
Sir William Owen, sheriff of Shropshire at the time of the visitation, but
who was living before the end of the 16th century, not long after the death
of
his (in my present belief) grandfather Humphrey the Alderman, whose Will
is
preserved at PROB 11/47, proved in 1564. >>
Something seems amiss in this paragraph.
Sarah Baskerville baptised 5 Mar 1552 which would then accord with her son
Roger being born in 1572 as you stated. But then you say that William, the
fifth and youngest son "...who was living ...not long after the death of Humphrey"
Surely William was born no *earlier* than 1580 ? That would be quite a time
after the death of Humphrey.
Thanks
Will Johnson
Tony Ingham
The following data on the descent of the Baskerville family of Eardisley
comes from my files:
Modified Register for Walter de BASKERVILE knight
First Generation
Mason, M., (Ed), Eardisley: its houses and their residents, Eardisley
History Group, Eardisley July
2005.
The 1080s to the 1270s: in the time of the Norman, Angevin and early
Plantagenet dynasties - On
the frontline of Norman occupation, Welsh resistance and the Baron's Wars
Robinson considered that the 'domus defensibilis' described in 1087
"probably partook more the
character of a Saxon earth and timber work than of a Norman fortalice
... It seems probable that it
was converted into a regular fortress as early as the twelfth century"
[52]. By the 1190s is was
recognised that the Lordship of Eardisley (the area under control of the
Lord of the Manor of
Eardisley) was geographically part of Herefordshire, but politically
part of the Marcher Lordships
[Page: 360-361]. The manor was of some importance by this time, and in
1225 Sir Walter de
Baskerville was granted a right to hold a fair at the site on the feast
day of St. Mary Magdalene
[Watkins: 35]. In 1240 the manor of Eardisley passed to the de Bohuns
[Page: 363]. In 1251
Humphrey de Bohun had granted the manor of 'Irdesle' to Sir Walter de
Baskerville, although the
family claimed at that time that they had held it since the marriage of
Sir Ralph de Baskerville to
Sybil, the heiress of Adam de Port and a grand-daughter through her
mother of Milo Fitzwalter, Earl
of Hereford [Richardson: 54]. Watkins states that Sybil le Port was the
first wife of Robert de
Baskerville, and that he obtained the manor through this marriage [34].
This would date their
original occupation to the the early 1100s, but it must be remembered
that these claims were being
made some two centuries after the event. Sir Ralph is recorded holding
lands under Adam de Port by
inheritance from the time of Henry I (1100-1135); and that upon Sir
Ralph's murder in
Northamptonshire about 1194 one son, Roger, succeeded him at Eardisley
and another, Thomas, at
Pickthorn, their Shopshire manor [Richardson: 54].
During the ongoing conflict between Prince Llywelyn ap Ionwerth of
Gwynedd and Henry III, the
Welsh defeated Roger de Mortimer, the King's chief supporter, and drove
him from Wigmore Castle,
and just after Christmas 1262 plundered the manors of the kings
supporters, including Eardisley and
Weobley [Richardson: 52-53; Page: 364]. Prince Edward took charge of the
Royal forces, and drove
Llywelyn ap Ionwerth back into Wales, but then conflict broke out with
some of the barons and one
of Llywelyn ap Ionwerth's allies, the rebel Earl of Leicester, captured
the Bishop of Hereford (one of
Henry's allies) and held him in captivity in Eardisley Castle [Page:
365]. The Sheriff of Gloucester was
also seized and held in Eardisley Castle with the bishop [Richardson:
53]. Watkins states that Sir
Walter de Baskerville had followed his liege-lord Sir Humphrey de Bohun
in his support for the rebel
barons, and after their failure at the Battle of Evesham in 1265 he had
fled to France with other
rebels.
The collapse of the barons left the county in a lawless state, and
raiders plundered the countryside
[Page: 365]. It seems that the Baskerville's were not living in the
castle when it fell to Llywelyn ap
Ionwerth, although it remained the property of Humphrey de Bohun their
leige-lord. De Bohun was
one of the rebel barons, and when Edward I ascended the throne in 1272
he took it from the de
Bohuns and gave it to Roger de Clifford, who had been a staunch
supporter of the royal cause
[Richardson: 53]. In 1274 Edward I pardoned Sir Walter Baskerville and
other rebels [Watkins: 35],
and the Baskervilles appear to have soon been back in the castle.
Although the castle suffered some
destruction by the Welsh, it had remained secure enough to imprison the
Bishop and Sheriff for
some time. However, when the Baskervilles returned they were probably
engaged in some sort of
rebuilding project for their new liege-lord, especially as the general
lawlessness of the period
required even stronger defences. A few years later the de Bohuns were
again supporting the king,
and regained the lordship of Eardisley [Richardson: 53]. Sir Walter died
in 1284 and, having no sons,
the manor was inherited by his brother Sir Richard.
During all the turmoil of establishing a presence on the frontier the
Baskervilles had made several
strategic marriages. Robert de Baskerville, lord of the manor in 1087,
had married firstly the Norman
Sybil, daughter of Adam le Port; then the Welsh Agnes, daughter of
Galfred Rees [Watkins: 40],
otherwise known as Agnes, the heiress of Nesta, the daughter of Rhys ap
Gruffydd, Prince of South
Wales [Erwin]; Robert's son Sir Ralph married the daughter of Drogo,
Lord of Clifford Castle; his son
Sir Robert married the daughter of Sir Rothes le Gros [the Fat], Lord of
Orcop; and his son or
grandson Sir Walter married the daughter of the Earl of Shropshire
[Watkins: 40]. These marriages
established a network of dynastic alliances of both Norman and Welsh
families, and brought to the
Baskervilles several new manors, such as Orcop.
A timber and earth fortified house was in existence by 1087 with a
Baskerville mesne-lord. The
original source of their lordship was is not clearly recorded, although
it soon became a fief of the de
Bohuns as Earls of Hereford. Sometime in the 1260s, during Llywelyn ap
Ionwerth's Welsh invasions
and then the Baron's Wars, the fortified house was attacked and
plundered, then used as a jail, and
the Baskervilles dispersed with the mesne-lord going into exile until
pardoned by a new king,
allowing the family to return and rebuild the castle. As they
consolidated their physcial presence in
the Marches by the rebuilding of the castle, they also consolidated
their social presence through
intermarriages with other Marcher families, Welsh and Norman. By the
time the Plantagenets had
consolidated their hold on the throne under Edward I the Baskervilles
were permanently settled at
Eardisley.
The 1280s to 1485: in the times of the Plantagenet dynasty -
Consolidation as the chief residence of
the Baskervilles
Sir Walter de Baskerville held a licence from the Bishop of Hereford in
1272 "to hold divine service in
an oratory [a chapel] built within the walls of the Castle", by which
time Eardisley had become the
chief residence of the family. Sir Richard de Baskerville was summoned
to Parliament in 1297 as Lord
of Eardisley and Orcop, and of Stretton Sugwas. In 1317 the various
Baskerville manors were divided
amongst several heirs [Watkins: 37-38]. A later Sir Richard took the
side of his de Bohun liege-lord
again in a rebellion against the Crown, but was pardoned in 1321, and
the following year he divided
his 8 manors, including Eardisley, among his grandsons as his son had
predeceased him [Watkins:
38]. In 1372 the Earldom of Hereford became extinct, and the lordship of
Eardisley passed back to
the Crown, with the king becoming the liege-lord. When Sir Richard de
Baskerville died in 1375 a jury
found that he held the castle from the de Bohuns. By this time the
Baskerville's had been living at
the castle site for nearly 200 years [Richardson: 53-54]. During the
time the Baskervilles had married
into other Norman families such as Touchet, Brugge, Poyntz and de Caux,
or Welsh families such as
Rhys/Rees and Montgomery.
Walter had the following children:
2 M i. Walter de BASKERVILE knight of Eardisley died
before 3 Sep 1282.
Knights of Edward I.
BASKERVILE, Walter de. Angent ung chevron et trois torteaux de
goules (Glover).
Son and heir of Walter de Baskervile, deceased, who held Orcop manor,
Hereford, 24 May 1244 (Inq.). Rebel and enemy of King. His lands at
Erdesley,
Grensted, Horcopp, and Cumbe granted to Roger de Clifford, 26 Oct 1265
(Cart. R.).
Pardon of outlawry for death of Henry de Almaine, wherewith he was charged,
12 Sep 1274 (P.R.). Sheriff of Hereford is to deliver Erdeslegh Castle
to Roger de
Clifford to hold of Walter de Bakesvile for life 25 Jun 1278 (P.R.).
Pardon to Ivor
fil. Griffin fil. Griffin of trespasses against Walter de Baskervile 9
Apr 1282 (C.R.).
Dead 3 Sep 1282 (F.R.).
A History of the County of Essex: Volume 4: Ongar Hundred (1956), pp. 59-60.
Greenstead: Manor.
The descent of the tenancy in demesne between about 1170 and about
1250 is
obscure. It is possible that the Marcy family continued as tenants for
part of this
time. (fn. 36) By about 1250, however, the tenant was Walter de
Baskerville. (fn.
37) He was the son of Walter de Baskerville (d. 1244) of Orcop
(Herefs.). (fn. 38)
He fought against the king in the Barons' Wars and in 1265 his lands at
Orcop,
Greenstead, and elsewhere were granted to Roger de Clifford. (fn. 39)
Baskerville
subsequently regained possession and in 1279 granted Greenstead to Roger
de la
Hay in exchange for land in Great Cowarne (Herefs.). (fn. 40)
Footnote:
37 E.A.T. n.s. xviii, 18.
38 C. Moor, Knights of Edw. I (Harl. Soc.), i, 50; W. H. Cooke,
Hist. Hereford
(1892), 187.
39 C. Moor, ibid.
40 Feet of F. Essex, ii, 24.
Note: Great Cowarne was part of the dower given to his widow Sybil and
she
brought it to her second husband John de Acton of Iron Acton,
Gloucestershire.
Walter married Sybil CORBET daughter of Thomas CORBET of Caus
Shropshire and Isabel de VALLETORT. Sybil was living in 1316.
1312 Calendar of Close Rolls 6 Edward II. Nov. 26. Windsor p.495.
To Roger de Wellesworth, escheator this side Trent. Order not to
intermeddle
further with the manors of Penyton and Yanesore, a fourth of the manor of
Couerne, and the lands that John de Acton, deceased, and his wife Sibyl
held in
the manor of Ceddre. As it appears by inquisition that the said John and
Sibyl were
jointly enfeoffed of certain lands in Ceddre, and that she continued her
seisin
thereof jointly with her husband until his death, and that the said
John, by fine
levied in the king's court, gave the manor of Penyton to William de la
Mere in fee,
who gave it to the said John for life with remainder to the said Sibyl
for her life,
with remainder to Joan Randolf, daughter of the said John, for her life,
with
reversion to the right heirs of the said John, and that the said John
and Sibyl held
at his death the manor of Yanesore and a fourth of the manor of Couerne
as her
dower of her late husband Walter de Baskervill, and that the lands in
Ceddre are
held of the bishop of Bath and the manor of Penyton of John Neirnut. He
is to
restore to Sibyl any issues received from the same.
Her marriage portion was the manor of Cheddar in Somersetshire. A
capital
messuage, 40 acres of arable, 10 acres of meadow, a water-mill, rents,
&c, held
jointly with her husband, of the gift of William de Ebroye[is].
She was named in the will of Godfrey Giffard, bishop of Worcester,
dated at
Kempsey by Worcester, 13 September 1301, as 'domine Sibille de Acton,
nepti
mee.'
HISTORY OF THE COMMONERS 1826 Note: This data is incorrect**
Volume 3.
Section: Baskerville, of Rockley House:
Sir Walter de Baskerville, Lord of Combe (died c. 1318), married
1297, Sibill, the
daughter of Peter of Caus and Joan de Montfichet.
Shown previously here as Baskerville of Clyro Court: Sir Walter de
Baskerville,
Lord of Coombe who married 26 E I (1297) Sibill daughter of Peter Corbet
of Caus,
and died about 12 E 2 (1318) was survived by his son Sir Richard de
Baskerville of
Erdesley, M.P. for the county of Hereford in 1347. Married 14 E 2 (1320)
Jane
daughter of Sir Richard Poyns/Poynings kt and was succeeded by his son. (BK:
4789)
+ 3 M ii. Richard de BASKERVILE knight .
Second Generation
3. Richard de BASKERVILE knight (Walter).
Note: This data is incorrect**
Sir Richard, who became lord of Eardisley and High Sheriff of Hereford,
was M.P., for the County of
Herefordshire, in which office the family served in eleven Parliaments
during the next 400 years.
They also served the Office of High Sheriff for the County twenty-one
times. Richard and was
succeeded by his son Walter Baskerville (died 1319) who was called lord
of Combe. His wife Sibella
[or Sybil] daughter of Peter of Caux, and their son (died 1342),
grandson (died 1373) and great,
grand son (died 1394) all named Richard, were Knighted. The last son,
Sir John of Eardisley (died
1403). Married Elizabeth, daughter and heiress of John Brugge of Letton
and Stanton. They had
issue, Sir John (died 1455) who also was called Knight of Combe, when
quite a young boy followed
King Henry to the Battle of Agincourt.14l5 AD He married Elizabeth,
daughter of John Touchet, Lord
Audley. His brother Ralph Baskerville married Anne, daughter and heiress
of Sir John Blacket of
Icomb, whose daughter, Jane became the wife of Symon Milbourne and
mother to thirteen children!
Richard had the following children:
4 M i. Walter de BASKERVILE knight .
Note: This data is incorrect**
Sir Richard, who became lord of Eardisley and High Sheriff of
Hereford, was M.P.,
for the County of Herefordshire, in which office the family served in
eleven
Parliaments during the next 400 years. They also served the Office of
High Sheriff
for the County twenty-one times. Richard and was succeeded by his son
Walter
Baskerville (died 1319) who was called lord of Combe. His wife Sibella
[or Sybil]
daughter of Peter of Caux, and their son (died 1342), grandson (died
1373) and
great, grand son (died 1394) all named Richard, were Knighted. The last
son, Sir
John of Eardisley (died 1403). Married Elizabeth, daughter and heiress
of John
Brugge of Letton and Stanton. They had issue, Sir John (died 1455) who
also was
called Knight of Combe, when quite a young boy followed King Henry to
the Battle
of Agincourt.1415 AD He married Elizabeth, daughter of John Touchet,
Lord Audley.
His brother Ralph Baskerville married Anne, daughter and heiress of Sir
John
Blacket of Icomb, whose daughter, Jane became the wife of Symon
Milbourne and
mother to thirteen children!
The C.C.R. of 1312 shows that all the known pedigrees are faulty as far
as they relate
to Sir Walter de Baskerville (d.1282) and his wife Sybil Corbet. John de
Acton Sybil's
second husband died in 1312.
Whether Sir Walter had two daughters by a previous marriage is
problematical. If he did,
they were certainly not his heirs.
Richard, his younger brother was his heir as is seen below:
Knights of Edward I.
BASKERVILE, Sir Richard de, Kt. De argent a un cheveron de goules et
iii rondels de
azure (Parl.). Livery of Erdesley Cas. to Ric. de B., bro. h. of Walt.
de B., 6 Feb. 1290
(P.R.).
Hope the following is of some assistance,
Tony Ingham.
> There are three intriguing Baskerviiles recorded in the Oxford DNB:
> 1. Thomas, son of Henry B and Ann Ratford, married to Mary, d. of Thomas
> Throckmorton
> (general of the fleet, buried Drake at sea), d. 1597
> 2. His son Hannibal, antiquary, 5 Apr 1597- March 1668
> 3. Hannibal's son Thomas, topographer, 1630-1700
>
> I have not been able to attach these exciting Baskervilles to any pedigree
> that I have seen.
>
> So far as concerns Thomas the alderman of London, I have since replying to
> Louise Staley's recent post had a look at the Shropshire Visitation for 1623
> (Treswell, page 387), which can be seen on line if one gets into google books
> via proxify.
>
> A remarkable feature of the pedigree presented on this and the next page,
> which gives an entirely conventional account of the Baskerville descent from
> Sir James and his wife Elizabeth Touchet down to James, husband of Elizabeth
> "Braynton" of Stretton, Salop, is that it shows Humphrey the alderman as fifth
> son of this James and Elizabeth, and married to Joanna Packington, with the
> six daughters Elizabeth Hungate, Angelica Maynard, Martha May, Anna Ducket,
> Mary Gonston and Sarah Owen, wife of Thomas Owen, the well-known judge of the
> King's Bench who is buried in Westminster Abbey, and whose brief biography
> (describing him as the husband of Sarah, daughter of Humphrey Baskerville) is
> in the Oxford DNB.
> The same article gives a biography of his son Sir Roger Owen (1572-1617).
> Both Thomas Owen and his son Roger were graduates of Christ Church, Oxford,
> and Treasurers of Lincoln's Inn- which, as my friends will realise, makes me
> predisposed to trust them and their close kin as reliable authorities on
> genealogical matters.
> The Shropshire pedigree is vouched for by Thomas Owen's youngest (5th) son
> Sir William Owen, sheriff of Shropshire at the time of the visitation, but
> who was living before the end of the 16th century, not long after the death of
> his (in my present belief) grandfather Humphrey the Alderman, whose Will is
> preserved at PROB 11/47, proved in 1564.
>
> I am therefore finding myself driven towards accepting the very proposition
> which I had rejected in my earlier posts, namely that Humphrey the alderman
> was indeed a son of James Baskerville and Elizabeth Breynton.
>
> As a result of this further effort I am convinced that the pedigrees on
> which I relied in my earlier response to Louise Staley are unreliable. We must I
> think look elsewhere for a credible ancestry for the Baskervilles of Aberedw,
> and must welcome the alderman as a member of the main Baskerville of
> Eardisley line.
> MM
>
>
>
>
> MM
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEV...@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
>
>
>
Matthew Connolly
Using the same notation, this is a summary of a chart pedigree
accompanying the article. "Note: Familial relationship is not certain
in every case and the table should be read accordingly." NB also that
I've transcribed sons in the order they appear from right to left in
the chart, but this does not necessarily represent the true birth
order (partly because that may not be known, and partly perhaps the
way the tree was laid out to fit on the page!)
1.Robert fl.1086 &1109, of Eardisley etc.
1.1.Roger fl.1127 of Eardisley, Bredwardine & Pencelli
1.1.1.Ralph d.1148/9=dau drew fitzPons of Clifford?
1.1.1.1.Robert d.1176 of Eardisley=Juliana (dau Nicholas de Stafford?)
1.1.1.1.1.Ralph d.c.June 1186
1.1.1.1.1.1.Walter d.1212=Isolda dau Walter Biset
1.1.1.1.1.1.1.Walter d.1244=Susanna sis Andrew de Cancell
1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.Walter d.1282=Sibyl dau John Streaton
1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.Johanna=Roger de Clifford
1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.2.Sibyl=Hugh de Kinnersley
1.1.1.1.1.1.1.2.Richard fl.1323=Phillipa de Solers [with issue]
1.1.1.2.Walter of Orcop dsp=Emma de St Leger, widow of Henry de
Longchamps of Wilton
1.1.1.3.Roger fl.1193-1208
1.1.1.4.Gilbert fl.1150-5
1.1.1.5.Ralph d.1190/1 of Bredwardine & Pencelli=Nest ferch Gruffydd d.
1220
1.1.1.5.1.Thomas d.1241 of Bredwardine
1.1.1.5.1.1.Roger d.1244=Anastasia
1.1.1.5.1.1.1.Walter d.1286
1.1.1.5.1.1.1.1.Roger 1262-1339=Johanna [issue]
1.1.1.5.2.Robert (of Breconshire)=Elisent
1.1.1.5.2.1.James, a monk
1.1.1.5.3.Ralph of Bredwardine & Pencelli d.1210=Sibyl dau Adam de
Port
1.1.1.5.3.1.Alice=Robert le Wafre fl.1235-48
1.1.1.5.3.1.1.Robert le Wafre d.c.1275
1.1.1.5.3.1.1.1.Lucia=Roger de Mortimer (of Chirk) d.1300 [issue]
1.1.1.5.3.1.1.2.dau.=Miles Pichard (of Scethrog) fl.1299 [issue]
1.1.1.5.3.1.1.3.dau.=Roger ap Ieuan (of Pencelli) fl.1299 [issue]
1.1.1.5.3.2.(dau.)=(Roger de Radnor fl.c.1220)
1.1.1.5.3.3.Agnes=Roger Devereux fl.1255
1.1.1.5.3.3.1.Robert Devereux fl.1243
1.1.1.5.3.3.1.1.Robert Devereux fl.1316 [issue]
1.1.1.5.4.Matilda of weston and Woodbury=(Roger?) le Bret [issue]
1.1.1.6.(dau.)=(Richard fitz Tancred)
2.Ralph fl.1086 of Combe Baskerville & Windrush (Gloucs.)
Louise Staley
<snip of interesting early Baskerville genealogy I have no basis to
comment on>
I apologise for becoming M.I.A. however I have been in Melbourne for a
few days.
> There are three intriguing Baskerviiles recorded in the Oxford DNB:
> 1. Thomas, son of Henry B and Ann Ratford, married to Mary, d. of Thomas
> Throckmorton
the Henry who married Ann (the Visitation of Berkshire says Rufford) was
the son of Sir John Baskerville and Alice Bridges, Sir John was the
second son of Sir James of Eardisley Castle and Sybil Devereux.
> (general of the fleet, buried Drake at sea), d. 1597
> 2. His son Hannibal, antiquary, 5 Apr 1597- March 1668
> 3. Hannibal's son Thomas, topographer, 1630-1700
I believe the famous Baskerville typographer, who invented the
Baskerville font lived 1706-1775 and was the son of a John Baskerville.
There is a booklet which attepts to trace his ancestry, published in
1936 called "John Baskerville: The Printer 1706-1775 his ancestry, a
retrospect by Thomas Cave Member Worcestershire Historical Society."
Unfortunately I downloaded a few relevant pages but now cannot find from
where.
Thomas the typographer belongs in the Shropshire family and I think
descends from a brother of Humphrey the alderman.
Like you I found the proximity of the time of certification of the
Shropshire Visitation persuasive until I had the will of Humphrey the
alderman partially transcribed.
While it fits with the children of Humphrey in the Shropshire Visitation
the names of the alderman's siblings do not completely overlap with
those of the Eardisly line. In particular the alderman mentions his
brother William but Sir James is not known to have a son William. The
alderman mentions his brother Thomas of Nethwerwood and his children
namely John B, Humfry B, Alice B, Johne B and Anne B. But the Thomas son
of Sir James is reported as dying s.p.m. Sir James is said to have had
sons James, John, Thomas, Walter and Humphrey but Humphrey the alderman
mentions brothers John, Thomas and John.
So while it is appealing to add the alderman to the main line (so we
could then argue/discuss whether Sybil Devereux was the daughter or
sister-in-law of Anne Ferrers) I do no think there is sufficient
evidence to do so.
regards
Louise
1 September 1563 5 Elizabeth
Humfrey Baskerfild [Baskerfelde in margin], citizen and alderman of London.
Body to be buried in church commonly called the mercers churche in West
Chepe of London [provision for grave stone].
Goods to be divided into 3 portions.
One portion to wife Jane.
Another to all my children, as well married and unmarried, to be paid as
they accomplish ages of 21 or at marriage.
Third part to perform legacies and bequests.
Long list of friends to receive gold rings,
including my brother Thomas Baskerfelde;
also Thomas Baskerfilde of Nethewood in the county of Worceter.
Other bequests to servants.
To Hughe Baskerfilde mine apprentice.
To my brother Thomas Baskerfild of Upton in the county of Worceter.
To the children of my said brother Thomas Baskerfilde,
namely John B, Humfry B, Alice B, Johne B and Anne B, to be paid as they
come to 21 are are married.
Sister Alice Sandes, widow.
And to every of her children,
that is to say Christopher Jewk[es], Edward Jewk[es], William Jewk[es],
Joyce Jewkes, John Jewk[es]
and to her son Robert Sandes, at 21 or marriage.
Sister Agnes Hollyman now wife of Humfry Hollyman of Blackesole in the
county of Worceter, and her children [named].
Children of late brother William Baskerfilde deceased [named].
Children of brother [John inserted] Baskerfilde of Alvetheley in the
county of Salop [named]
Further bequests to Packingtons.
For repair of Wolverly Bridge, Co[w?]clyff Bridge and Councell Bridge in
the county of Worceter.
Further bequests include:
The poor of the parish of Kidderminster in Worceter, to be distributed
by discretion of brother Thomas
and bayliff of parish.
The poor of parish of Woluerlye "wher I was borne".
Bequests to company of mercers, apprentices and servants, to the poor of
specified London parishes.
To every of children married as unmarried and to "the childe in my
wiefes boddy" at lawful age of
marriage.
Bequests to London hospitals.
Richard Hollyman mercer shall have the bringing up and keeping of Anne
and Martha my daughters.
Friend Thomas Heaton mercer shall have keeping etc of Humfry Baskerfelde
my son.
William Leon[ar]de mercer shall have keeping etc of Angell my daughter.
Cousin John Jackson fownder shall have finding and bringing up of
Richard my son.
Son in law Harry Hungate mercer shall have finding and bringing up of
Sara my daughter.
Wife to have finding and virtuous bringing up of "the childe she nowe
goeth withall".
I gave in marriage with my daughter to my son in law Harry Hungate 200
pounds.
>
>
>
>
> MM
Louise Staley
The Visitation was taken in 1623, 60 years after Humphrey the alderman
died. William Owen was baptised in 1581, 18 years after Humphrey died.
The other important point is that Humphrey the alderman died when his
children were young and their mother remarried. The Baskerville
daughters were famously given spectacular dowries by their step father
Lionel Duckett. These families were noted at the time for their enormous
wealth, Lionel Duckett repeatedly lent money to the English treasury,
and the money was very new. It would not surprise me if the story told
in the family was that they came from the Eardisly Castle line.
Timeline
1552 Sarah Baskerville baptised in London
1563 Humphrey the alderman dies
<1570 Sarah Baskerville marries Thomas Owen of Condover
1570-1587 10 children baptised in London to Sarah and Thomas
1581 William Owen baptised London
~1594 Sarah dies
1598 Thomas Owen dies
1662 William Owen Sheriff of Shropshire dies
Louise
Millerf...@aol.com
Louise Staley wrote yesterday, referring to
<the famous Baskerville typographer, who invented the Baskerville
<font lived 1706-1775 and was the son of a John Baskerville
Have you seen the DNB article on John the typographer, Louise?
It states that he was "born at Sion Hill, Wolverley, near Kidderminster,
Worcestershire, the son of John Baskervile (d. 1738) and his wife, Sara or
Sarah; he was baptized at Wolverley on 28 January 1707. It is likely that the
family were landowners and farmers in a small way".
Although the typographer is OT, I think it worth mentioning that the only
baptismal entry at Wolverley, Worcs, for a John B is dated 25th January 1697
(son of John B and Sara), which casts some doubt on the DNB biography.
It is perhaps noteworthy that in the abstract of the Will of "Thomas the
Alderman" he refers to himself as having been born in the parish of Wolverley. A
family connection is therefore well possible.
As to Humphrey the alderman himself, I have just discovered a parish
register entry for the marriage of him and his wife Jane Packington at St Michael
Bassishaw, London, on 15th Jan 1541, where Humphrey is transcribed in the IGI
transcripts as "Homfray Baskerfeld" and his wife as "Jane Paginton". His Will
(PROB 11/54) was proved in November 1564, which makes it possible that the
following children, baptised at St Michael Bassishaw as the children of
Humphrey (variously spelt or transcribed), were his:-
Humphrey, bp 23 Sep 1547
Angel, bp 21 Sep 1549
Sarah, bp 5th Mar 1552
Mary, bp 2nd Jul 1555
Richard, 14th July 1557.
Children so named are all found in the alderman's Will.
Also there is a baptismal entry dated 16th May 1544 for Elizabeth
Baskerville, daughter of Humphrey, in the register of St Lawrence Jewry. Her marriage
to Henry Hungate is registered at St Michael Bassishaw on 14th Jul 1563.
There is another entry at St Lawrence Jewry for the baptism of Anne
Baskerville on 28th Feb 1559, and IGI shows one for Martha at St Peter Westcheap in
November 1561. Westcheap was known as the Mercers' church, as Humphrey's Will
states.
Thus it seems that all the alderman's children, mentioned in his Will and
the Shropshire Visitation, can be accounted for.
As for the alderman's siblings mentioned in his Will, I have to agree with
Louise that they do not completely overlap with [what is known] of the
Eardisley line. In particular Louise points out that Sir James Baskerville is not
known to have had a son William. But Sir James' brother Philip is shown in the
Herefordshire pedigrees as having had a son William.
Louise continues:-
<Sir James is said to have had sons James, John, Thomas, Walter and Humphrey
but <Humphrey the alderman mentions brothers John, Thomas and John.
Only one brother John is mentioned, as far as I can see. And Thomas of
Netherwood is not described as the Alderman's brother (though on the hypothesis
that the Alderman was a Baskerville of the Eardisley line he was a fairly close
relation).
The reference to "my brother Thomas Baskerfild of Upton" suggests to me that
the Alderman was using "brother" in a loose sense, and the same may be true
of his use of the word "sister"- I have certainly had no success in
identifying any of the sisters mentioned in the Alderman's Will.
I think it may be worth having a look at Nash's Worcestershire for traces of
the Worcestershire Baskervilles. Several are mentioned in the index,
including many at Vol I, page 158, but I don't currently have access to the book.
Finally, Louise, I had not known that there was doubt about the place of
Sybil Baskerville nee Devereux in the Devereux family. But now, looking at the
relevant dates, I do see that she might have been Anne Ferrers' daughter: the
Ferrers/Devereux marriage settlement in the Longleat papers is dated 1446,
which gives time for a daughter Sybil to have married Sir James Baskerville KB.
The latter's IPM (E 150/150/408) is dated 1499, and their son Sir Walter's
is dated 1509.
If Sybil was the sister of Anne Ferrers' husband, she must have been born
before 1439, Elizabeth Merbury (the wife of Sir Walter Devereux senior) being
known to have died in 1438.
We might get further illumination from a study of the IPM of Sir James'
Baskerville's father John (died 1455, IPM C 139/175/10), as it would likely show
the age of his heir.
MM
Millerf...@aol.com
Baskerville of Brinsop and his brother Walter Baskerville. Each of them referes to
their deceased brother Sir James, and to their older brother John.
Thomas's Will makes it apparent that his only child was Eleanor, still under
age. His wife Dame Eleanor is mentioned, along with Abington and Dansey
properties. Walter's makes it clear that he had no children, but mentions his
wife Sibyl, previously married to a Birde. Several of his estates are named.
Neither of these Wills makes any mention of any Humphrey Baskerville, nor to
the children of any deceased Humphrey. But I doubt whether that proves
anything.
MM
Louise Staley
> In a message dated 2/14/07 10:57:32 AM Pacific Standard Time,
>
Dear Will,
Sorry for the delay. In answer to your questions about Mary
Throckmorton an excellent site to look at her extensive ancestry is
Tim Powys-Lybbe's http://powys.org/, go to the Berkeley's link and
search under the name Thomas Baskerville. Mary was the daughter of Sir
Thomas Throkmorton of Tortworth and Elizabeth Berkeley.
In the ODNB Mary is reported as having a disastrous second marriage
with Sir James Scudamore. Apparently CP Vol. 11 P. 572 also has
something to say about her and her Scudamore offspring.
regards
Louise
WJho...@aol.com
car...@bigpond.com writes:
<< 1570-1587 10 children baptised in London to Sarah and Thomas >>
Louise since you've made a study of these Owen of Condover would you know how
William Owen. esq of Condover who married Lettice Bagot (b 25 Nov 1606
Blithfield) is related to these other Owen of Condover families?
Will Johnson