Guischard de Charron

[Raymond Phair]

Douglas Richardson asked for information about the Charron family.

Craster discussed the family in his section on Horton, co.
Northumberland [1]:

Guischard de Charron I (also known as de Sabaudia), a cleric, presented
by the king in 1242 to be rector of Fransham, co. Norfolk, and appointed
by Peter of Savoy to be seneschal of the honor of Richmond. With his
brothers Bernard de Sabaudia (a knight who was appointed in 1241
constable of Reigate and Windsor castles), and Stephen (a monk, prior of
Thetford, co. Norfolk, murdered in 1248), Guischard accompanied his
kinsman Peter of Savoy (de Sabaudia) to England in 1241.

Guischard de Charron II, living in 1297, knight, son of the cleric, was
appointed by Peter of Savoy (d. 1268) to be an executor of his will.
Guischard's father had apparently died earlier. He m(1) Mary, daughter
and co-heir of Richard de Sutton (Sutton-on-Trent, Nottinghamshire); m(2)
1269, Isabel, daughter and heir of Walran de Horton, widow of Thomas
de Castre and Thomas de Ryhill (who had appointed Guischard as executor
of his will). Isabel had sons by her second marriage, but the manor of
Horton passed to Guischard's son Guischard III apparently by his 1st wife
Mary. Craster discussed the conflicting evidence for this point and noted
R. Thoroton in "History of Nottinghamshire" (1796) had assumed
Guischard III was a son of Isabel.

Guischard de Charron III, d. 1314 in the battle of Bannockburn, knight,
m. ca.1288, Alice, living in 1332, daughter of Thomas de Lucy of
Cockermouth, co. Cumberland. (In support of this identification of
Alice, Craster offered an extract from Dodsworth mss. vol. 32, fol. 95b,
which I did not copy in my notes). Guischard's heir was his only child,
Joan, who m(1) ca.1310 sir Bertram de Monboucher (d. by 1332), and
m(2) before 21 Feb 1333/4, sir Richard de Willoughy of Wollaston (chief
justice of the king's bench). Craster traced the Monboucher-Harbottle
line for several generations.

[1] "History of Northumberland", v.9 (1909), ed. H.E. Craster, Horton
township starts on p.249; there are additional biographical details for
Guischard II and III. Craster may have found that Guischard was a
brother of Stephen and Bernard in "Chronica Major" (Rolls series, 7v,
1872-83) by Matthew Paris, 5:31-3. An extract from it (5:31) was given
to show Stephen was from Savoy and possibly a relative of the queen.

"Complete Peerage" (CP), 10:805-9 (1945) observed that king Henry III
gave Peter of Savoy the honor of Richmond, but not the earldom of
Richmond, in 1241.

The 4 volume biography of Peter by J.L. Wurstemberger, "Peter der
Zweite, Graf von Savoyen" (1856-8), used by both Craster and CP, may
have information about Guischard and his brothers and their possible
relationship to Peter.

Ray Phair

[Paul C. Reed]

Doug,

While you're checking things on this Charron/Sabaudia connection, you might
want to glance at (if you haven't already) _Knights of Edward I_ [HS 80:195
(Charron) and 83:164-5 (Sabaudia/Savoy). I expect it's readily available to
you, so I won't transcribe anything, save to point out that it gives the arms
of Sir Peter de Sabaudia/Savoy as

Goules ung crois d'argent (Glover)

while the arms of Sir Guichard [sic] de Charron/Charrun are given as

De goulys a un cheveroun e iii eskallops de argent (Parl.)

Paul

[PDel...@aol.com]

Yes whilst the tinctures and metals are the same there is no obvious even
tenuous heraldic link between the two individuals. ther are even no marks of
cadency ...enfin !PG

[Douglas Richardson]

Thank you, Raymond, for posting the information about the Charron
family below. It was quite enlightening. The last heiress of this
family, Joan (Charron) (Monboucher) Willoughby, is ancestral to several
New World immigrants, among them Katherine Hamby, Olive Welby, Jeremy
Clarke, Thomas Owsley, Dannett Abney, Nathaniel Browne, John Davenport,
Henry, Jane and Nicholas Lowe, Charles Calvert, and Maria Johanna
Somerset. Consequently, there are many, many Americans who would
interested in determining the exact relationship between Guiscard de
Charron I (otherwise of Savoy) and his "kinsman," Peter of Savoy, uncle
of Queen Eleanor of Province, wife of King Henry III.

If there is anyone knowledgeable about Continental families, perhaps
they might like to comment on the kinship between the Charron and Savoy
families.

Sincerely, Douglas Richardson

In article <1999121004...@cap1.CapAccess.org>,

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