Daughters of John de Doddiscombe

[Joe]

Sir John de Doddiscombe held Doddiscombe, Doddiscombsleigh (Legh, Legh
Peverel), Rifton in Stoodleigh (Reston), Rawston in Bishop’s Nympton
(Reston, Retton), Lower Yalberton and Watton (Allebourn et Wadeton),
Lowton Peverel (Lughedon), and Compton Pole, all co. Devon. He married
Cecily whose ancestry is unknown. He died between 14 June 1339 and
1346.

I found him interesting in that first he died leaving 5 daughters and
co-heirs, and second all 5 daughters that I had (Agnes, Emma, Cecily,
Alice and Joan) seemed to be ancestors of Prince William.

In December Leo posted on the Tremayne family and has in his database
Nicholas Tremayne m. to Joan daughter and heir of John de Doddiscombe.
[1] This marriage is found in Vivian’s Visitations of Devon and in
the Visitations of Cornwall, as well as many other secondary sources.
[2,3]

There is reason to believe this marriage. Much of the property was
divided as 1/5th shares and the advowson of Doddiscombsleigh rotated
among the many descendants for generations. On 21 October 1464,
Thomas Tremayne and Roger Worthe were found to be the true patrons of
Doddiscombsleigh.[4] In the 1503 IPM of John Tremayne, he was found
to holding a 1/5th part of Doddiscombsleigh.[5]

However, there is a problem. John de Doddiscombe did not have a
daughter Joan. The five daughters are detailed in the IPM of Otes
Champernoun (a grandson) as Agnes, Alice, Cecily, Emma and Elizabeth.
[6] Also, Nicholas was age 40 in the 1408 IPM of his mother, so born
c1368; it is impossible for him to have married the daughter of a man
dead by 1346.

The most likely solution is that Joan, wife of Nicholas Tremayne, was
the granddaughter and not the daughter of John Doddiscombe. To my
thinking, she could not be a granddaughter through Agnes (not named in
Otes Champernon IPM), Emma [Pollard] (left male issue who held
inheritance), Cecily [Newenham/Worthe] (left male issue who held
inheritance), or Alice [Bigbury] (left male issue who held
inheritance).

This leaves the daughter Elizabeth who the only trace I find makes her
the wife of John Gorges.[7] But I do not believe this pedigree of the
Gorges is correct. I also don’t see how the Doddiscombe lands could
pass through Gorges to the Tremaynes.

Anyone ever try to sort this out?
Is there any proof that Nicholas Tremayne’s wife was named Joan?
Is there any clue to Joan’s ancestry?

Joe


1. Leo’s Genealogics page for Joan Doddiscombe http://tinyurl.com/bt4yw64
2. Visitations of the County of Devon, Comprising the Heralds
Visitations of 1531, 1564 and 1620, by J.L. Vivian (1895). P. 730
http://tinyurl.com/cpxn3xo Joan dau. and heir of John Dodescombe m.
Nicholas Tremayne 40yo in 1408
3. Visitations of the County of Cornwall in the Years 1530, 1573 and
1620, ed. by J.L. Vivian (1887). P. 616 Tremayne. http://tinyurl.com/blrs2s2
4. Devonshire Parishes vol. 1, by Charles Worthy (1887). http://tinyurl.com/235lek7
5. Calendar of Inquisitions Post Mortem, Henry VII, Vol. 2 (13-20
Henry VII 1497-1505). P. 468 John Tremayn holding his portion in
1503 http://tinyurl.com/bmreyk8
6. Cal. of Fine Rolls vol. XV (1422-1430). p. 42, 111, 319
http://tinyurl.com/36tdula
7. Journal of the Royal Institution of Cornwall, vol. XI for
1891-1893, (pub. 1895). http://tinyurl.com/d54nu48

[Wjhonson]

I also want to point out that chronology shouts against this short line.
Richard Edgcombe died 7 Sep 1489, Thomas Tremaine, the father of Richard's wife Joan, died 1 Feb 1482

By your below, this Thomas was an adult in 1464 or before, making him *active* a century after his "mother" Joan.

Let alone one generation, I would suggest there were as many as three missing here.

-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEV...@rootsweb.com
with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of
the message

[Joe]

I see in the Visitations of Cornwall, Vivian cites for Nicholas
Tramyane m. to Joan Doddiscombe (http://tinyurl.com/blrs2s2 ):
Pedes Finium 11 Henry VI, Cornwall Nos. 4 & 5; Pedes Finium 5 Henry VI
Devon no. 40

Anyone have access to these Feet of Fines?


Joe

[johnschm...@gmail.com]

It would seem that the obvious solution is that Joan, wife of Nicholas Tremaine and ancestor of Walter Raleigh, MP, was the GRANDdaughter of John Doddiscombe through Elizabeth, but not by husband John Gorges. We don't know how many husbands she had.