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Richmond alias Webb Wiltshire ancestry of The Rt Hon. David Cameron, HM Leader of the Loyal Oppositi
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Richard Carruthers a.k.a. Carruthers-Zurowski
Jun 22, 2008, 11:09:30 PM6/22/08
to wa...@wargs.com, Leo van de Pas, gen-me...@rootsweb.com, Wiltshire Genealogy
"Richmond Family Records", vol. 2, details the RICHMOND alias WEBB family of Wiltshire and Somerset.
In it a continuation of the ancestry of Amelia THACKERAY, aunt of the author, William Makepeace THACKERAY, and wife of John Talbot SHAKSPEARE is given, as follows:
1. Amelia THACKERAY
2. William Makepeace THACKERAY 1749-?
3. Amelia WEBB 1758-1810
6. Col. Richmond WEBB d. 1785 aet. 70
7. Sarah GRIFFITHS
12. Richmond WEBB, Capt. in the Guards, MP for Ludgershall, Wilts. 1707-22
13. Elizabeth NN
14. John GRIFFITHS, of Downton, Radnor, Esq.
15. NN
24. James RICHMOND alias WEBB25. Mary NN
48. John RICHMOND alias WEBB
49. Elizabeth PHILIPPS, of Picton, Pembrokes.
96. Edmund RICHMOND alias WEBB, of Rodbourne Cheney and Wroughton, Wilts.
97. Katherine ST JOHN
192. Thomas RICHMOND alias WEBB, of Rodbourne Cheney, Wilts.
193. Anne PULLEYNE
384. William RICHMOND alias WEBB
385. Dorothy LYMINGE
386. Arthur PULLEYNE, of Rodbourne Cheney, Wilts.
768. William RICHMOND alias WEBB
769. Joan EWEN
770. John LYMINGE, of Co. Notts.
771. NN
772. Richard PULLEYNE, of Rodbourne Cheney, Wilts.
773. Margaret BARROW, of Halkirk, niece of James LOWTHER
1536. William RICHMOND
1537, Alice WEBB, dau. and heir of Thomas WEBB, of Draycott Folliot, Chiseldon, Wilts.
1538. John EWEN, of Draycott Folliot, Chiseldon, Wilts.
The RICHMOND alias WEBB family bore arms blazoned: "Argent, a cross patonce azure between four estoiles pierced gules."
The earlier ancestry of the RICHMOND family was investigated by Amelia THACKERAY's brother Francis THACKERAY. He derived the family from the hereditary castellans of RICHMOND CASTLE, Yorkshire, a device which his nephew W.M. THACKERAY made use of in his novel HENRY ESMOND, having old General Richmond WEBB, a collateral relation of his who flourished in the time of Queen Anne, say: "We were gentlemen, Esmond, when the Churchills were horseboys", an allusion to the General's rivalry with his commander the famous John CHURCHILL, 1st Duke of Marlborough.
How much merit, if any, there may be in the earlier descent of the Wiltshire RICHMOND family from the Yorkshire Castellans is something on which I am not qualified to pronounce on. The Visitation of Glos. 1681-3, merely states that the William RICHMOND (no. 1536 above) who married the WEBB heiress was "of Yorkshire". By evidence unknown to me, Francis THACKERAY et al. made him out to be 12th in lineal descent from one ROALD D'ADOUBE MUSARD, supporter of William the Conqueror! My misgivings about the credibility of this descent are not allayed by the fact that General George Plantagenet Harrison, soi-disant 'Duke of Lancaster', published a slightly different account of these medieval RICHMONDs (see Sir A.R. Wagner's "English Genealogy", pp. 359-360, for an appraisal of the work of this noteworthy if eccentric figure!).
Richard Carruthers-Zurowki, M.A. (Oxon.)
Vancouver
9th cousin 4 times removed of W.M. THACKERAY, the writer by a shared descent from 768 and 769 above.
_________________________________________________________________
In it a continuation of the ancestry of Amelia THACKERAY, aunt of the author, William Makepeace THACKERAY, and wife of John Talbot SHAKSPEARE is given, as follows:
1. Amelia THACKERAY
2. William Makepeace THACKERAY 1749-?
3. Amelia WEBB 1758-1810
6. Col. Richmond WEBB d. 1785 aet. 70
7. Sarah GRIFFITHS
12. Richmond WEBB, Capt. in the Guards, MP for Ludgershall, Wilts. 1707-22
13. Elizabeth NN
14. John GRIFFITHS, of Downton, Radnor, Esq.
15. NN
24. James RICHMOND alias WEBB25. Mary NN
48. John RICHMOND alias WEBB
49. Elizabeth PHILIPPS, of Picton, Pembrokes.
96. Edmund RICHMOND alias WEBB, of Rodbourne Cheney and Wroughton, Wilts.
97. Katherine ST JOHN
192. Thomas RICHMOND alias WEBB, of Rodbourne Cheney, Wilts.
193. Anne PULLEYNE
384. William RICHMOND alias WEBB
385. Dorothy LYMINGE
386. Arthur PULLEYNE, of Rodbourne Cheney, Wilts.
768. William RICHMOND alias WEBB
769. Joan EWEN
770. John LYMINGE, of Co. Notts.
771. NN
772. Richard PULLEYNE, of Rodbourne Cheney, Wilts.
773. Margaret BARROW, of Halkirk, niece of James LOWTHER
1536. William RICHMOND
1537, Alice WEBB, dau. and heir of Thomas WEBB, of Draycott Folliot, Chiseldon, Wilts.
1538. John EWEN, of Draycott Folliot, Chiseldon, Wilts.
The RICHMOND alias WEBB family bore arms blazoned: "Argent, a cross patonce azure between four estoiles pierced gules."
The earlier ancestry of the RICHMOND family was investigated by Amelia THACKERAY's brother Francis THACKERAY. He derived the family from the hereditary castellans of RICHMOND CASTLE, Yorkshire, a device which his nephew W.M. THACKERAY made use of in his novel HENRY ESMOND, having old General Richmond WEBB, a collateral relation of his who flourished in the time of Queen Anne, say: "We were gentlemen, Esmond, when the Churchills were horseboys", an allusion to the General's rivalry with his commander the famous John CHURCHILL, 1st Duke of Marlborough.
How much merit, if any, there may be in the earlier descent of the Wiltshire RICHMOND family from the Yorkshire Castellans is something on which I am not qualified to pronounce on. The Visitation of Glos. 1681-3, merely states that the William RICHMOND (no. 1536 above) who married the WEBB heiress was "of Yorkshire". By evidence unknown to me, Francis THACKERAY et al. made him out to be 12th in lineal descent from one ROALD D'ADOUBE MUSARD, supporter of William the Conqueror! My misgivings about the credibility of this descent are not allayed by the fact that General George Plantagenet Harrison, soi-disant 'Duke of Lancaster', published a slightly different account of these medieval RICHMONDs (see Sir A.R. Wagner's "English Genealogy", pp. 359-360, for an appraisal of the work of this noteworthy if eccentric figure!).
Richard Carruthers-Zurowki, M.A. (Oxon.)
Vancouver
9th cousin 4 times removed of W.M. THACKERAY, the writer by a shared descent from 768 and 769 above.
_________________________________________________________________
Matthew Connolly
Jun 23, 2008, 12:20:19 PM6/23/08
to
On Jun 23, 4:09 am, "Richard Carruthers a.k.a. Carruthers-Zurowski"[snip]
There's a similar descent given in Misc. Gen. et Her., s.5 vol.VII, pp.
41 et seq., although it differs in minor details (e.g. 13 seems to be
given as Ann, rather than Elizabeth), and gives a few more dates. 49
is stated to be daughter of "Sir ... Phillips" of Picton, Bt, and
widow of one 'Meddop'; I did find a Philipps pedigree which gives
Elizabeth, daughter of Sir John Philipps, 1st Bt (d.1629) by his wife
Anne Perrott, as marrying Edward Medhope, clerk of the Irish
Parliament, which would seem to fit; 97 is given as daughter of
Nicholas St John of Lydiard Tregoze.
One of Thackeray's present-day descendants is a successful comedian-
Al Murray, a.k.a. The Pub Landlord: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Murray
. How does David Cameron connect to the Richmond/Webbs?
Richard Carruthers a.k.a. Carruthers-Zurowski
Jun 23, 2008, 4:15:07 PM6/23/08
to Matthew Connolly, gen-me...@rootsweb.com
Thank you for your post Matthew.
David Cameron's descent is listed on William Addams Reitwiesner's website: http://www.wargs.com/noble/cameron.html
Amelia Thackeray is ancestor 107 in the Ahnentafel there.
Richard Carruthers-Zurowski, M.A., Oxon.
_________________________________________________________________
If you like crossword puzzles, then you'll love Flexicon, a game which combines four overlapping crossword puzzles into one!
http://g.msn.ca/ca55/208
David Cameron's descent is listed on William Addams Reitwiesner's website: http://www.wargs.com/noble/cameron.html
Amelia Thackeray is ancestor 107 in the Ahnentafel there.
Richard Carruthers-Zurowski, M.A., Oxon.
_________________________________________________________________
If you like crossword puzzles, then you'll love Flexicon, a game which combines four overlapping crossword puzzles into one!
http://g.msn.ca/ca55/208
wjhonson
Jun 23, 2008, 10:09:25 PM6/23/08
to
On Jun 22, 8:09 pm, "Richard Carruthers a.k.a. Carruthers-Zurowski"
The terminus date for 2. William above is 1813
>
> 6. Col. Richmond WEBB d. 1785 aet. 70
> 7. Sarah GRIFFITHS
Sarah "survived her husband by 4 years"
>
> 12. Richmond WEBB, Capt. in the Guards, MP for Ludgershall, Wilts. 1707-22
> 13. Elizabeth NN
Richmond was buried at Rochester 1734
>
> 96. Edmund RICHMOND alias WEBB, of Rodbourne Cheney and Wroughton, Wilts.
> 97. Katherine ST JOHN
Edmund died 1621
Will Johnson
lostc...@yahoo.com
Jun 23, 2008, 11:32:05 PM6/23/08
to
You mentioned Somerset - is the above Webb family originally from
Somerset? I have been tracing Somerset Webbs who connect with
Beresford, but the earliest I have so far is Hugh Webb "of Colvenhay"
who married Christine Beresford & died about 1780. Might these Webbs
be related? Thanks, Bronwen
Richard Carruthers a.k.a. Carruthers-Zurowski
Jun 24, 2008, 5:11:52 AM6/24/08
to lostc...@yahoo.com, gen-me...@rootsweb.com
No, they branched out into Somerset from Wiltshire.Richard Carruthers-Zurowski, M.A., Oxon.
> You mentioned Somerset - is the above Webb family originally from> Somerset? I have been tracing Somerset Webbs who connect with> Beresford, but the earliest I have so far is Hugh Webb "of Colvenhay"> who married Christine Beresford & died about 1780. Might these Webbs> be related? Thanks, Bronwen> > -------------------------------> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEV...@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
_________________________________________________________________
> You mentioned Somerset - is the above Webb family originally from> Somerset? I have been tracing Somerset Webbs who connect with> Beresford, but the earliest I have so far is Hugh Webb "of Colvenhay"> who married Christine Beresford & died about 1780. Might these Webbs> be related? Thanks, Bronwen> > -------------------------------> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEV...@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
_________________________________________________________________
Richard Carruthers a.k.a. Carruthers-Zurowski
Jun 24, 2008, 5:12:51 AM6/24/08
to wjhonson, gen-me...@rootsweb.com
Thank you for the additions, Will.Richard Carruthers-Zurowski, M.A., Oxon.
> On Jun 22, 8:09 pm, "Richard Carruthers a.k.a. Carruthers-Zurowski"> <leliw...@hotmail.com> wrote:> >> > 2. William Makepeace THACKERAY 1749-?> > 3. Amelia WEBB 1758-1810> > > The terminus date for 2. William above is 1813> > >> > 6. Col. Richmond WEBB d. 1785 aet. 70> > 7. Sarah GRIFFITHS> > Sarah "survived her husband by 4 years"> > >> > 12. Richmond WEBB, Capt. in the Guards, MP for Ludgershall, Wilts. 1707-22> > 13. Elizabeth NN> > Richmond was buried at Rochester 1734> > >> > 96. Edmund RICHMOND alias WEBB, of Rodbourne Cheney and Wroughton, Wilts.> > 97. Katherine ST JOHN> > > Edmund died 1621> > Will Johnson> > -------------------------------> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEV...@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
_________________________________________________________________
> On Jun 22, 8:09 pm, "Richard Carruthers a.k.a. Carruthers-Zurowski"> <leliw...@hotmail.com> wrote:> >> > 2. William Makepeace THACKERAY 1749-?> > 3. Amelia WEBB 1758-1810> > > The terminus date for 2. William above is 1813> > >> > 6. Col. Richmond WEBB d. 1785 aet. 70> > 7. Sarah GRIFFITHS> > Sarah "survived her husband by 4 years"> > >> > 12. Richmond WEBB, Capt. in the Guards, MP for Ludgershall, Wilts. 1707-22> > 13. Elizabeth NN> > Richmond was buried at Rochester 1734> > >> > 96. Edmund RICHMOND alias WEBB, of Rodbourne Cheney and Wroughton, Wilts.> > 97. Katherine ST JOHN> > > Edmund died 1621> > Will Johnson> > -------------------------------> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEV...@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
_________________________________________________________________
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