Earls of Pennington
DavidBotts
Anyone ever heard of the Earls of Pennington. There is a claim out there that
James Taylor of VA descends from them. Never heard of these earls myself - how
say y'all?
Thanks,
Dave Botts
Leo van de Pas
Leo
Nathaniel Taylor
david...@aol.com (DavidBotts) wrote:
>Anyone ever heard of the Earls of Pennington. There is a claim out there that
>James Taylor of VA descends from them. Never heard of these earls myself - how
>say y'all?
There is an English Taylor family in the 1838 edition of Burke's
_Genealogical and Heraldic History of the Commoners of Great Britain and
Ireland_ (4:237-241), represented at that time by one Major Joseph Pringle
Taylor of Pennington, Hampshire. He was not an earl, and he was not, so
far as anyone knows, related to James Taylor of Virginia (though Major
Joseph was, apparently, descended from Judge John Taylor of Middletown,
New Jersey). Can you give any more information about this claim you're
reporting?
Nat Taylor
Josephine Lindsay Bass
investigating the possibility - I would be glad to send you the docs which
deal with the Heraldry of Taylor from this researcher. Today I sent them
to Paul Reed after visiting his site. James Taylor of Virginia would be
IMO a good candidate. As a descendant of James I would any input .
josie
jb...@digital.net
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Lindsay Bass
DavidBotts
From GenealogicalLibrary.com:
FUQUA - BARRET FAMILY HERITAGE COLLECTION
INTRODUCTION TO THE FUQUA - BARRETT FAMILY HERITAGE COLLECTION
This set of Family Heritage records includes biographical family
heritage data and family tree records for the direct and collateral lines
for Dr. Lincoln Douglas and Darrell Ray Fuqua originally of Owensboro,
Kentucky. These lines include many of America's Founding Fathers, their
royal lines ancestors (including 39 European Kings) to father Adam, and
honorable descendants. These records include: 1,680 U.S. Founding
Fathers and descendants; 17 signers of the Declaration of Independence;
26 Delegates and Signers of U.S. Constitution; members of the Continental
Congress; 11 U.S. Presidents; 7 U.S. Supreme & Circuit Court Members;
14 other National office holders; 53 U.S. Senators; 179 U.S. Congressmen;
86 State Governors and Deputies; 18 House of Burgesses members; 42
State Officials; 6 Mayors; 109 U.S. Veterans; 26 Physicians; and 19
Ministers.
This honorable heritage collection (still under development) contains
records of some of the western worlds most noted figures. For further
information contact: Dr. Lincoln D. Fuqua at 835 North 60 East, American
Fork, Utah 84003. He serves as a Family History Consultant for Utah
Valley Regional Family Center at Brigham Young University and the Alpine
Family History Center in American Fork, Utah.
...Page 5
6. James Taylor II (1673-1729) - He married Martha Thompson.
Both families are of noble birth. His father James Taylor
I, of Carlyle, England, a lineal descendent of the Earls of
Pennington, occupied many offices of trust as an early
Virginia immigrant. From this union came five descendants
who served as Presidents of the U.S.-Zachary Taylor, James
Madison, John Tyler, Jr., William H. Harrison, and Benjamin
Harrison. Their son Col. George Taylor had ten sons serving
in the Continental Army. Through intermarriage of the
families 11 of America's first 23 presidents came from these
lines. Further researched by Lincoln and others has since
proven that 31 of the 41 U.S. Presidents to date are from
common ancestral heritage.
Thanks,
Dave Botts
Nathaniel Taylor
david...@aol.com (DavidBotts) wrote:
>Hi Nat (and all) To wit:
>
>From GenealogicalLibrary.com:
>
>FUQUA - BARRET FAMILY HERITAGE COLLECTION
<...>
>...Page 5
>
>6. James Taylor II (1673-1729) - He married Martha Thompson.
> Both families are of noble birth. His father James Taylor
> I, of Carlyle, England, a lineal descendent of the Earls of
> Pennington...
David,
Thanks. I wouldn't waste your time and attention with this one. James
Taylor, the Virginia immigrant ancestor of President Zachary Taylor (the
father in the above sketch) is NOT known to be from Carlisle, and his
parents are NOT KNOWN. There is no evidence to suggest that either he or
his daughter-in-law was 'of noble birth'.
This is a good example of data circulating endlessly on no evidence. For
more discussion of these Virginia Taylors look in the archives for
November 1998.
Nat Taylor
Nathaniel Taylor
>>Anyone ever heard of the Earls of Pennington. There is a claim out there
>>that James Taylor of VA descends from them. Never heard of these earls
>>myself--how say y'all?
Josephine Lindsay Bass wrote:
>I know of no one making the claim. I do know of someone who is
>investigating the possibility - I would be glad to send you the docs which
>deal with the Heraldry of Taylor from this researcher.
Thanks for the offer. But, you see, the title 'Earl of Pennington' has
never existed. Therefore, I would not really be interested in seeing
documents from anyone who is investigating the 'possibility' that a
Virginia immigrant with unknown ancestry is descended from them.
Let me be more explicit about my earlier post: the whole fantasy creation
of the Taylor 'Earls of Pennington' is based on someone either wilfully or
woefully ignorantly inflating the entry about armigerous Major Pringle
Taylor of Pennington, Southampton, in the 1838 Burke's _Commoners_ (er, no
known relation of the Virginia Taylors). For the curious, Major Pringle
Taylor's arms were: Ermine, a lion rampant guardant azure, on a chief
embattled gules a fleur-de-lis or between two boars' heads couped erect
argent. They were an original grant made to him in 1823, and therefore
can have no value whatsoever for any early Virginia immigrant Taylor
families.
Nat Taylor
Paul C. Reed
>> I, of Carlyle, England, a lineal descendent of the Earls of
>> Pennington...
It is claimed that there is an entry in the Carlisle parish register which
stated that he left for Virginia.
This type of statement would be very unusual. But this specific circumstance
is complicated by the fact that the Carlisle St. Mary register begins in 1648,
and Carlisle St. Cuthbert in 1693. Bishops' Transcripts survive from an even
later period.
It is one thing for an author to make a claim. It is quite another to supply
specific evidence.
Probate records do survive for this period, but I have not seen that anyone has
made an effort to search them. With a late start for so many Cumberland
registers, that would be the best bet of anyone trying to establish a
connection to that county.
BUT, the surname is extremely common throughout England, for obvious reasons.
One would need more than the occurrence of given names like John or James.
Paul
BobBecAlln
father to James Taylor who married Martha Thompson. I agree that it has been
printed that he descended from the Earl of Pennington (and that the Earl of
Pennington was from Pennington Castle 20 miles from Carlisle, Cumberland Co.,
England). I agree that there has never been an Earl of Pennington. I think
this rumor is a distortion of the Pringle Taylor genealogy reported in "A
Genealogical and Heraldic History of The Commoners of Great Britain and
Ireland, Vol. IV, page 237 (this Pringle Taylor being from Pennington House in
either Southampton County or Hampshire County, England).
The Mottoes of James Taylor, Sr., (according to the motto engraved on a ring
that he is said to have worn, a ring which I know still exists today in the
possession of a Helen Marie Taylor in Orange, VA, a direct descendant of said
James Taylor, Sr.)) and Pringle Taylor were identical ("consequitur quodcunque
petit") and there were some similarities in a Crest engraved on the James
Taylor ring and the Crest of Pringle Taylor.
My educated guess as to how it came to be alleged that Pennington Castle was 20
miles from Carlisle, England was that many researchers (myself not included)
believe(d) that James Taylor, Sr. was a direct descendant of Dr. Rowland
Taylor, the religious martyr who was burned at the stake in Hadleigh, Suffolk
County, England in 1555 through his descendant, Thomas Taylor who married
Margaret Swinderly who was allegedly from Carlisle, England and that many of
their children immigrated to Virginia, including John Taylor (b.1607) who is
alleged to have been James Taylor, Sr.'s father. I seriously question this
genealogy of James Taylor, Sr.
As far as I can determine, Pringle Taylor (179?-18??) was the first Taylor to
have a connection with Pennington House. His arms were granted in 1827 at the
time he was knighted (I think). Obviously the name "Pennington" probably had
nothing whatsoever to do with James Taylor who died in 1698 or with Thomas
Taylor and Margaret Swinderly.
Chris Dickinson
Taylor lineage (as repeated below).
I don't know about the descent you hope to validate, but do
know a small amount about Cumbrian genealogy that may be
relevant.
Others may well wish to comment on the lineage as such, but
some of you here will be aware of my instant disbelief in
pedigrees that make such big claims and that use such vague
language. You should be very suspicious of anything that
talks in terms of a 'Southampton County' (Southampton is a
city in Hampshire) or a 'Hampshire County' or a 'Cumberland
Co.' (that's in the USA).
That said, there are some things that you may wish to
explore.
The Penningtons are a well-known family from Cumberland and
became English baronets and Irish barons. I suppose that it
is not impossible that Sir John Pennington, Baron Muncaster,
could have been translated by some bad research or a severe
dose of social aspiration into the Earl of Pennington.
There are very many connections between Cumbria and Ireland
over the centuries ... a family link between Carlisle and
Dublin is more likely than between Carlisle and London.
There is a coat of arms of George Ledwell Taylor of London
(1788-1873) containing two boars heads (erased and erect) at
Hutton John in Cumberland.
Taylor is such a common name (and the unwarranted assumption
of armorial bearings only slightly less common) that,
frankly, few Taylors should be able to prove a descent of
any antiquity.
Merry Christmas!
Chris
***
"BobBecAlln" writes:
>"A Genealogical and Heraldic History of The Commoners of
Great Britain and
>Ireland", by John Burke, Esq., Vol. IV, page 237 discusses
Major Pringle Taylor
>of Pennington House (179?-18??). Pennington House was said
to be in
>Southampton County, England (although the family estate of
Pennington was >said
>to be in Hampshire County, England). He was knighted in
1827. The Taylor
>Heraldry mentioned is:
>
>Arms: ermine, a lion rampant guardant azure, on a chief
embattled gules, a
>fleur-de-lis or between two boars' heads coupled erect
argent.
>
>Crest: a dexter arm embowed in armour the hand in a
gauntlet grasping a
>javelin, all proper pendant from the rist by a ribbon,
azure and resting on a
>wreath of the colour, an escocheon gules thereon a boar's
head coupled erect
>argent.
>
>Motto: Consequitur quodcunque petit.
>
>Pringle Taylor's reported lineage seems to be clearly set
forth from John
>Taylor, of the Homerstall, in Shadochurst, county of Kent,
living in the time
>of Edward III. There is an allegation that this John
Taylor descends from a
>Hanger Taylefer who descendants held lands in the tenure
of Ospringe, county
>of Kent, 39 Henry III (1256). There is an allegation that
Hanger Taylefer is a
>descendant of Taillefer of Battle of Hastings fame.
>
>I know that there are serious doubts that the linkage to
Taillefer is true.
>How about the alleged linkage to Hanger Taylefer? Has
Hanger Taylefer been
>proven to be an ancestor of John Taylor of Homerstall in
Shadochurst, County of
>Kent? It is generally accepted that the lineage from John
Taylor of Homerstall
>in Shadochurst, County of Kent, to Pringle Taylor is
probably correct?
>
>There are some similarities between the Coat of Arms and
Crest of Pringle
>Taylor and the Coat of Arms and Crest of the Headfort
Taylors of Ireland.
>Their mottoes are identical. Is there any proven linkage
between the two
>Taylor lines?
>
>Is there any proof that the Taylor ancestors of Pringle
Taylor had assumed or
>were confirmed with, or were granted a similar version of
the Coat of Arms,
>Crest or Motto granted to Pringle Taylor?
and
>"A Genealogical and Heraldic History of The Commoners of
Great Britain and
>Ireland", by John Burke, Esq., Vol. IV, page 237 discusses
Major Pringle >Taylor
>of Pennington House (179?-18??). Pennington House was said
to be in
>Southampton County, England (although the family estate of
Pennington was >said
>to be in Hampshire County, England). He was knighted in
1827. The Taylor
>Heraldry mentioned is:
>
>Arms: ermine, a lion rampant guardant azure, on a chief
embattled gules, a
>fleur-de-lis or between two boars' heads coupled erect
argent.
>
>Crest: a dexter arm embowed in armour the hand in a
gauntlet grasping a
>javelin, all proper pendant from the rist by a ribbon,
azure and resting on a
>wreath of the colour, an escocheon gules thereon a boar's
head coupled erect
>argent.
>
>Motto: Consequitur quodcunque petit.
>
>Pringle Taylor's reported lineage seems to be clearly set
forth from John
>Taylor, of the Homerstall, in Shadochurst, county of Kent,
living in the time
>of Edward III. There is an allegation that this John
Taylor descends from a
>Hanger Taylefer who descendants held lands in the tenure
of Ospringe, county
>of Kent, 39 Henry III (1256). There is an allegation that
Hanger Taylefer is a
>descendant of Taillefer of Battle of Hastings fame.
>
>I know that there are serious doubts that the linkage to
Taillefer is true.
>How about the alleged linkage to Hanger Taylefer? Has
Hanger Taylefer been
>proven to be an ancestor of John Taylor of Homerstall in
Shadochurst, County >of
>Kent? It is generally accepted that the lineage from John
Taylor of Homerstall
>in Shadochurst, County of Kent, to Pringle Taylor is
probably correct?
>
>There are some similarities between the Coat of Arms and
Crest of Pringle
>Taylor and the Coat of Arms and Crest of the Headfort
Taylors of Ireland.
>Their mottoes are identical. Is there any proven linkage
between the two
>Taylor lines?
>
>Is there any proof that the Taylor ancestors of Pringle
Taylor had assumed or
>were confirmed with, or were granted a similar version of
the Coat of Arms,
>Crest or Motto granted to Pringle Taylor?
DavidBotts
anyone has a picture of cousin Helen Marie Taylor's relic ring? We Botts by
nature tend to retain few relics - much harder for the posse to catch up to us
if we always travel light.<g>
Dave Botts
San Antonio, Texas
BobBecAlln
Cabins to the White House", by Mary Taylor Brewer (1985). That book described
the last know owner of the ring to be a Mr. Jaquelin P. Taylor, father to
Helen Marie Taylor's husband, Jaquelin Erasmus Taylor. I also have
communicated with a Ms. Leigh L. Van Blarcon by e-mail and snail mail (whose
addresses was given me by Helen Marie Taylor) earlier this year and she
confirms that Helen Marie Taylor allowed her ring to be examined by a jeweler
and allowed the jeweler to make a duplicate of the ring for Leigh L. Van
Blarcon earlier this year and Leigh L. Van Blarcon sent me a hard copy picture
of the face of the ring which indeed is the same as the picture in "From Log
Cabins to the White House". I am not sure I know how to scan either hard copy
into my computer but I will try to figure it out. Meanwhile, I could snail
mail a copy to any interested party who gave me his/her snail mail address. I
will see if Leigh L. Van Blarcon can send me a digital picture over the
internet which I can share.
charis...@gmail.com
> Greetings from Texas:
> Anyone ever heard of the Earls of Pennington. There is a claim out there that
> say y'all?
>
>
>
> Dave Botts
Yes he is my 10th Great Grandfather born 1607 at Pennington Castle
Charisse Love -