Bavaria
Benjamin Hertzel
Does anyone have any information on the Dukes of Bavaria? I have Welf I,
Duke of Bavaria (no dates, no spouse, no parents) as father of Konrad (who
married ? and was the father of Konrad) and Judith (who married Louis I).
I also have Welf IV (1037 - 1101), married to Judith (daughter of Baldwin,
Count of Flanders), and father of Henry.
I assume there's a connection between these two Welfs - can anyone show me
that connection, or recommend literature that includes history on ruling
families of this part of the world?
Thank you
Benjamin
Frank Johansen
Benjamin Hertzel wrote:
Welf I, Count im Argengau und Linzau, d. bef. 876. Often called Duke of
Bavaria
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Eticho, Count im Ammergau, d. ca. 910
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Heinrich, Count im Ammergau; m. Athan von Hohenwart (d. aft 975)
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Rudolf I, Count in Altdorf
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Rudolf II, Count in Altdorf; m. Ita von Öningen
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Welf II, Count im Lechrain, d. 1030; m. ca. 1015 Irmtrud of Luxembourg
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Welf III, Count im Lechrain |
Duke of Carinthia (Kärnten), d. 1055 |
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Kunigunde (ca.1020 - bef.1055); m. ca. 1035 Azzo II, Marchese d'Este, d. 1097
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Welf IV, Duke of Bavaria (-1101); m.(1) Etheline, dau. of Otto von Northeim,
Duke of Bavaria; m. (2) 1071 Judth of Normandy
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Welf V, Duke of Bavaria (1073-1120) |
m. 1089 Matilda, Margravine of Tuscany |
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Heincrich Schwarze, Duke of Bavaria (1074-1126); m. Wulfhild of Saxony, d.1126
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Heinrich, Duke of Bavaria and Saxony (1100-1139)
Regards
Frank H. Johansen
Richard Borthwick
Konrad and the empress Judith) is to be distinguished from his putative
grandson Welf (II) (d.?about 860) (probable son of Konrad) count in the
Linzgau, Alpgau and Argengau) given as Welf I by Frank. It is most probable
that the "Bavarian" line descended from Konrad and his Etichonid wife, Aelis
dau. of count Hugo of Tours, since the leading name 'Eticho' occurs in that
line. The affiliations from Rudolf (II) are attested but all the previous
ones are likely but unproven and would be best indicated by a dotted line.
This convention is followed in ES I.1:17, 31 (see also ES III/4:736). The
prosopographical details are set out for Welf (I), Konrad, Welf (II) in M
Borgolte *Die Grafen Alemanniens in merowingischer and karolingischer Zeit.
Eine Prosopographie* (Thorbecke: Sigmaringen, 1986). Eticho is referred to
under the articles on Ato, Welf (I), Welf (II) and Heinrich. Jackman also
makes an interesting suggestion on the arrival of the name 'Heinrich' in the
"Bavarian" line in his *Criticism and Critique: Sidelights on the
Konradiner* (Oxford, 1997) 71, 158, Table 2.
On the marriages in Frank's line the one to Atha von Hohenwarth follows the
traditional Welf genealogy but has no other support and is omitted in ES
I.1. The marriage to Ita von Oehningen is not queried but following the
(tentative) acceptance of the identification of Kuno von Oehningen as Konrad
(II) duke of Swabia, the latter is now taken to be her father by Richlint.
Jackman's hypothesis is that Eticho married a dau. of Heinrich (d.886) duke
of the Austrasians by Engeltrud.
The basis of modern discussions on the origins of the Bavarian Welfs is G
Tellenbach's paper "Ueber die aeltesten Welfen im West- und Ostfrankenreich"
in *Studien und Vorarbeiten zur Geschichte des grossfraenkischen Adels*
(Freiburg, 1957) ed. by Tellenbach, pp.335-340. There is some discussion
(from what I can now imperfectly recall) on the early generations of the
"Bavarian" line in K Jordan *Heinrich der Loewe* (Munich, 1980[1979]). I
will check on this last when I have unpacked my books and reference cards.
Richard
James Drumm
about Bavarian Royal history---
Question: would anyone have seen some source of the given name "George"
that seems so common in German names? Often names of nobility are
copied, but never did hear any that sounded like George.
--JD