Princess Diana Ancestor: Cuthbert Vaughan of Great Chart, Kent (c.1519-1563)

[Brad Verity]

Another ancestor of Winifred Brooksby (and thus the 2nd Earl
Waldegrave/Princess Diana) was Jane Vaughan, wife of Thomas Wiseman of
Braddocks (1528-1585). They were the parents of Sir William Wiseman
of Braddocks who married Jane Huddleston of Sawston Hall.

Jane Vaughan has a biography in the ODNB, which I've not yet read, but
it's used as a source for her bio on the 'Who's Who of Tudor Women'
website:
http://www.kateemersonhistoricals.com/TudorWomenU-V.htm

"Jane Vaughan was probably the daughter of Cuthbert Vaughan (c.1519-
July 23,1563) and Elizabeth Roydon (1523-August 19, 1595), even though
they were noted puritans and she was a recusant. Jane married Thomas
Wiseman of Braddocks, Essex (1528-December 7,1585), by whom she had
eight children: William, Jane (c.1570-July 8,1633), John (1571-1592),
Thomas (1572-1596), Robert, Anne (d.1650), Barbara (d.1649), and
Bridget (1582-1627). In January 1593, she was indicted for hearing
mass at Braddocks in September 1592. She had had lived there with her
son William (sometimes called Walter) and his wife for a time after
her husband’s death. In December 1593, her own house at Bullocks was
searched for evidence that she’d been harboring priests, and although
none were found, it is likely that it is at this point that she was
imprisoned. By July 1594, the authorities had learned that all four of
her daughters had been sent to the Continent to become nuns. Anne and
Barbara joined the Bridgettines and both became abbesses. Jane and
Bridget entered St. Ursula’s in Louvain and Jane later became the
first prioress of that convent’s English offshoot, St. Monica’s. Since
the Jesuit John Gerard was the Wiseman family chaplain in 1591, there
was no question of Mrs. Wiseman’s guilt. While in prison, she
associated with the priests also being held there and in December 1595
gave first aid to one of them. Charged with “helping and maintaining”
priests, she was sentenced to death on July 3, 1598. Reportedly, she
was eager to become a martyr, but the sentence was commuted to life in
prison and when James I took the throne she was pardoned. Biography:
Oxford DNB entry under “Wiseman [née Vaughan], Jane.”"

It's unlikely Jane was the daughter of Cuthbert Vaughan by Elizabeth
Roydon. That couple was not married until 30 September 1550. Jane's
eldest son William was born about 1558:
http://books.google.ca/books?ei=bw9KUIKjFuOyiQK_2oDQDw&id=NRzkAAAAMAAJ&dq=Sir+William+Wiseman+born+about+1558&q=Wiseman+born+about+1558#search_anchor

And as William Wiseman was a grandfather in 1602, when Winifred
Brooksby was born, a birthdate for him of about 1558 seems to be
correct.

Instead, Jane would seem to be the daughter of Cuthbert Vaughan by a
wife previous to Elizabeth Roydon, one who was apparently a sister of
Welsh musician John Gwynneth, who is said to have arranged his niece
Jane's marriage to Thomas Wiseman before his own death in about 1560:
http://books.google.ca/books?id=JGPbQoS7t18C&pg=PA39&lpg=PA39&dq=Jane+Vaughan+Wiseman&source=bl&ots=97r3mIX7dT&sig=fnCeOs9dsjjz9dCuNfBP1a-TgMY&hl=en&sa=X&ei=IA1KUMHKLoO3iwLJs4DIDQ&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Jane%20Vaughan%20Wiseman&f=false

There may be more royal ancestry behind Jane Vaughan. "According to
the 'Chronicle of the Augustinian Canonesses of Louvain', Jane Vaughan
was 'of an ancient family in Wales but her mother of the (Tudor) blood
royal'":
http://books.google.ca/books?id=1ocRAQAAIAAJ&q=Jane+Vaughan+Wiseman&dq=Jane+Vaughan+Wiseman&source=bl&ots=V1ELKPOgUK&sig=GK8j4KwtTEFbVbPUVqMmJsYZ338&hl=en&sa=X&ei=IA1KUMHKLoO3iwLJs4DIDQ&ved=0CDIQ6AEwAQ

Jane's father Cuthbert Vaughan seems an interesting figure. Certainly
'Cuthbert' is an unusual first name for a Welshman, as St Cuthbert is
so closely associated with Northern England as opposed to Wales.
Apparently he was of the Vaughans of Hergerst, though his own seat
appears to have been Great Chart, in Kent.

Has anyone much more familiar than I with Welsh genealogy ever come
across this Cuthbert?

Thanks & Cheers, ------Brad

[John Higgins]

> eldest son William was born about 1558:http://books.google.ca/books?ei=bw9KUIKjFuOyiQK_2oDQDw&id=NRzkAAAAMAA...

>
> And as William Wiseman was a grandfather in 1602, when Winifred
> Brooksby was born, a birthdate for him of about 1558 seems to be
> correct.
>
> Instead, Jane would seem to be the daughter of Cuthbert Vaughan by a
> wife previous to Elizabeth Roydon, one who was apparently a sister of
> Welsh musician John Gwynneth, who is said to have arranged his niece

> Jane's marriage to Thomas Wiseman before his own death in about 1560:http://books.google.ca/books?id=JGPbQoS7t18C&pg=PA39&lpg=PA39&dq=Jane...

>
> There may be more royal ancestry behind Jane Vaughan.  "According to
> the 'Chronicle of the Augustinian Canonesses of Louvain', Jane Vaughan
> was 'of an ancient family in Wales but her mother of the (Tudor) blood

> royal'":http://books.google.ca/books?id=1ocRAQAAIAAJ&q=Jane+Vaughan+Wiseman&d...

>
> Jane's father Cuthbert Vaughan seems an interesting figure.  Certainly
> 'Cuthbert' is an unusual first name for a Welshman, as St Cuthbert is
> so closely associated with Northern England as opposed to Wales.
> Apparently he was of the Vaughans of Hergerst, though his own seat
> appears to have been Great Chart, in Kent.
>
> Has anyone much more familiar than I with Welsh genealogy ever come
> across this Cuthbert?
>
> Thanks & Cheers,                                  ------Brad

I've repeatedly hit dead ends in attempting to trace beyond Cuthbert
Vaughan. His ODNB bio says that he was of unknown parentage. After
reading his bio and that of his supposed daughter Jane (Vaughan)
Wiseman, I'm inclined to think that the connection between the two is
erroneous - primarily because of the chronology.

You've noted that Cuthbert Vaughan and Elizabeth Roydon were married
in 1550 (and he was the second of three husbands for her - her 1st
husband died Nov. 1549). ODNB estimates Cuthbert to have been born
ca. 1519 and says that Jane's husband Thomas Wiseman was born 1528.
If Jane was reasonably close in age to her husband, this gives an
impossibly narrow window for her have been born, married, and have
children. I'd guess that her father was some other Vaughan - possibly
a Cuthbert but probably not this one.

With respect to the "Tudor royal blood" of Jane's supposed mother
Elizabeth Roydon, Jane's ODNB bio repeats this, citing "the chronicle
of St. Monica's". By her 1st husband William Twysden, Elizabeth Roydon
is an ancestor of Princess Diana. Although she has a Plantagenet
descent, it is not through any of the Plantagenet kings - and
certainly not through the Tudor kings, or even their Welsh ancestors
as far as I can tell.

There may be a clue to Jane Vaughan's parentage in your reference
indicating that she was a niece of the musician John Gwynneth. His
ODNB bio says he was son of Dafydd ap Llywelyn ab Ithel of
Castellmarch in Caernarvonshire. I'll try to dig through whatever
Welsh sources I have access to and see if I can locate him. A further
clue is that there was a Llywelyn ab Ithel Fychan of Castellmarch.
Since the Fychan sobriquet was generally anglicized into Vaughan,
there might be a connection here.

[Brad Verity]

On Sep 7, 10:50 am, John Higgins <jhiggins...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> With respect to the "Tudor royal blood" of Jane's supposed mother
> Elizabeth Roydon, Jane's ODNB bio repeats this, citing "the chronicle
> of St. Monica's". By her 1st husband William Twysden, Elizabeth Roydon
> is an ancestor of Princess Diana.  Although she has a Plantagenet
> descent, it is not through any of the Plantagenet kings - and
> certainly not through the Tudor kings, or even their Welsh ancestors
> as far as I can tell.

John,

Apparently the original Chronicle of St Monica's does not identify
either of Jane's parents, while still making the blood royal comment
about her (otherwise unidentified) mother. I only get a snippet view
of the Chronicle thru Google Books. Hopefully you can see it in full
view:
http://books.google.ca/books?ei=U1JKUOzDFqTciQLnzYDAAQ&id=WLhLAAAAMAAJ&dq=Jane+Vaughan+of+an+ancient+family+in+Wales+but+her+mother+of+the+%28Tudor%29+blood++royal&q=Tudor+blood++royal#search_anchor

The editor of the Chronicle (from what I meant out) presumed the
"blood royal" comment referred to marriage with the Herberts, but that
just seems like his guess.

At any rate, it does provide a clue as you look further into the
family of musician John Gwynneth.

Cheers, -----Brad

[Brad Verity]

On Sep 7, 1:08 pm, Brad Verity <royaldesc...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> The editor of the Chronicle (from what I meant out)

Should be: "(from what I can make out)"

> presumed the
> "blood royal" comment referred to marriage with the Herberts, but that
> just seems like his guess.

And I also meant to add his guess was the likely cause for the "Tudor"
appearing before the "blood royal" in subsequent quotes from the
Chronicle, when the original does not say anything about "Tudor".

Cheers, -----Brad

[John Higgins]

Actually， The Chronicle of St. Monica (or its editor, in the Google
Books version you cited) does explain the Tudor reference. Here's
what it has to say:

"[Jane Vaughan's] exact parentage I have not yet found; our Chronicle
only says that her father was 'of an ancient family of Wales, and her
mother of the blood royal.' The same phrase, with the claim of royal
descent, probably through alliance with the Herberts, Cornwalls, and
other families, occurs in the Pontoise Chronicle, in the account of
Dame Clare Vaughan, O.S.B., of Courtfield. This circumstance, and the
connection of the Vaughans of Courtfield with our Canonesses, makes me
suspect that the Widow Vaughan was herself not unconnected with that
house. (From a MS in our records we learn that her mother's maiden
name was Tudor.)" END OF QUOTE

I think that the editor's guess that Jane Vaughan was of the family of
Vaughan of Courtfield is quite a stretch - at least as it's laid out
above, based simply on a mention of a connection to royal blood in
both cases. The Vaughan of Courtfield family appears in Burke's LG
through the 20th century, but with insufficient detail to place Jane
within the family. And there is no marriage indicated to any woman
surnamed Tudor. Finally the family of Vaughan of Courtfield appears
to have originated in a different part of Wales than the musician John
Gwynneth, who is elsewhere stated to be an uncle of our Jane Vaughan.

So far I've had no luck finding anything more about the family of John
Gwynneth, except the name of his father which we already knew.

[Wjhonson]

"the records of Elizabethan persecution Her exact parentage I have not yet found our Chronicle only says that her father was of an ancient family in Wales and her mother of the blood royal The same phrase with the claim of royal descent probably through alliance with the Herberts Cornwalls and other families occurs in the Pontoise Chronicle in the account of Dame Clare Vaughan OSB of Courtfield This circumstance and the connection of the Vaughans of Courtfield with our Canonesses make me suspect that the Widow Vaughan was herself not unconnected with that house From a MS in our records we learn that her mother's maiden name was Tudor Clare Vaughan born in 1638 and professed a Benedictine at Pontoise at the age of nineteen was a relative of Prioress Throckmorton of St Monica's She was the daughter of Richard Vaughan of Courtfield born in 1 601 by his first wife Bridget Wigmore His second wife was the heroic Agatha Berington Of this lady it is recorded that when Father James Richardson who was acting as chaplain at Courtfield in 1688 was in hiding for his life she would not confide the knowledge of his hiding place even to the Catholic domestics but alone through the depths of woods "

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[Brad Verity]

On Sep 7, 8:23 pm, John Higgins <jhiggins...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Actually， The Chronicle of St. Monica (or its editor, in the Google
> Books version you cited) does explain the Tudor reference.  Here's
> what it has to say:
>
> "[Jane Vaughan's] exact parentage I have not yet found; our Chronicle
> only says that her father was 'of an ancient family of Wales, and her
> mother of the blood royal.'  The same phrase, with the claim of royal
> descent, probably through alliance with the Herberts, Cornwalls, and
> other families, occurs in the Pontoise Chronicle, in the account of
> Dame Clare Vaughan, O.S.B., of Courtfield.  This circumstance, and the
> connection of the Vaughans of Courtfield with our Canonesses, makes me
> suspect that the Widow Vaughan was herself not unconnected with that
> house.  (From a MS in our records we learn that her mother's maiden
> name was Tudor.)"  END OF QUOTE

Many thanks to you, and to Will, for providing the full passage of
what the Chronicle's editor said. I'm sorry it didn't lead to
anything promising. The Vaughans give me the shudders, such a
complicated family. I give you credit for delving into them.

Cheers, -----------Brad

[gfo...@bigpond.net.au]

Hi Brad, I wrote to you elsewhere and you posted it, but it doesn't show up here. So I am adding the same information again. Jane Vaughan was the younger daughter of Stephen Vaughan and Margery Gwynneth, whose brother-in-law was John Gwynneth, a secular priest affiliated with St. Alban's Abbey. Gwynneth had a doctorate in choral music from Oxford University (born about 1486) and was made a chaplain of Henry 8. Jane's other sister was Ann Locke Vaughan, a strict Calvinist, who translated a sermon of Jean Calvin with an additional sonnet attributed to her (the earliest sonnet written in the English language). John Gwynneth was the ward of Vaughan's children (their mother died when they were young). Stephen Vaughan was a proto-evangelical, sympathetic to the Protestant cause in Europe. He spied for Henry VIII and was sent to contact William Tyndale and his helped John Frith in Europe. John Frith was ultimately caught on a visit to UK and executed by Henry VIII who hated Luther and the Protestant cause. John Gwynneth attacked Frith in writings in the 1530s, but supplemented them in the 1550s after Stephen Vaughan died. Gwynneth was rewarded by Henry VII for his writings against Frith, so there was a religious split in the Vaughan family (John Gwynneth and Jane Vaughan Wiseman, his protegy were Catholics and Stephen Vaughan and his son and daughter were Protestants). This division occurred long before the English Reformation was recognised as an entity. The person who originally stated Jane was the daughter of Cuthbert Vaughan (who as you corrected said was married too late to be her parent) was Father John Gerard who wrote his memoirs on his return to France, but made an error. One reason for the mistake may have been that both Vaughans had a link to Sir Thomas Wyatt and may have thus been confounded.