Another CP Addition: Agnes Greene, wife of William la Zouche
Douglas Richardson
Complete Peerage 12 Pt. 2 (1959): 942-943 sub Zouche of Harrington
identifies Agnes, wife of William la Zouche, 3rd Lord Zouche of
Harringworth, as:
"apparently da. of Sir Henry Green, Ch. Justice of the King's bench
(1361-65), of Boughton, Drayton and Green's Norton, Northants, by
Katherine, da. of Sir Simon de Frayton, of Drayton afsd."
That Agnes la Zouche was indeed the daughter of Sir Henry Green is
proven by the following document, an abstract of which is published in
the book, Descriptive Catalogue of Derbyshire Charters, by I.H.
Jeayes, published 1906, pg. 116.
"No. 942. Grant from William de Bonay, Abbot, and the Convent of Dale
to "their very honoured Lord," William la Zouche, "Seygneur of
Toteneys et de Haryngworht," and to Dame Agnes la Zouche, his
"compaygne," of participation in the priveleges, prayers, masses,
etc., of the said Abbey, with requiems on their anniversaries, and on
those of William la Zouche, father of the said William, who died in
A.D. 1385; for Elizabeth "sa compaigne," who died on ix. Kal. Jun.;
for Sire Henry de la Grene, knt., father of the above-named Agnes, who
died viii Id. August; for the mother of the said Agnes, who died Prid.
Id. Novembr.; for Sire William de Clynton, Earl of Huntingdon, who
died ix. Kal. Sept.; and for Dame Juliana, the Countess of Huntingdon.
Dat. "al Abbey del Dale," 13 Feb. 1385[6]. Seal of arms of William
la Zouche. (Add. 47495).
In addition to identifying Agnes la Zouche's father, Henry de la
Grene, knt., of Agnes la Zouche, this document also provides a more
exact death date for William la Zouche's mother, Elizabeth (de Roos)
la Zouche.
A list of the colonial immigrants who descend from William and Agnes
(Green) la Zouche is provided below.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
E-mail: royala...@msn.com
- - - - - - -
List of colonial immigrants who descend from William La Zouche, 3rd
Lord Zouche of Harringworth, and his wife, Agnes Green:
l. Charles Calvert.
2. Mary Launce.
3. William Poole.
4. Maria Johanna Somerset.
Patricia Junkin
Thank you very much for this information. I am making a study of the Zouche
family.
May I ask about the assignment of the date of 1385 for the death of William
la Zouche, father of the William who married Agnes.
I have an IPM William la Zouche or Souche of Haryngworth, knight Writ 26
April 5 R II [1382]. "He died on Wednesday the feast of St. George last.
William la Zouche of Bramfeld, knight age 40 years and more is his son and
heir."
And in the IPM of William who married Agnes...IPM William la Zouche of
Haryngworth
Writ, 16 May, 19 Richard II
Hertford. Inq. taken at Markyate, Monday before the Nativity of St. John the
Baptist, 19 R II.
He held the undermentioned manors in fee by gift of Henry Grene and John de
Cransele the younger to William la Zouche, father of the said William, for
life and after his death to the said William and Agnes his wife and the
heirs of their bodies, with the remainder to the right heirs of William the
father....
May I go further to inquire about your intrepretation of the following
Richard? Was he a son of William and Elizabeth de Ros?:
Norfolk. Inq. taken at Norwich 6 June 19 R II.
Richard la Zouche knight holds for life the undermentioned manor by gift of
William la Zouche, father of the said William, the reversion belonging to
the said William and his heirs.
Dokkng. The manor called Souchesmaner, held of the king in chief by service
of the sixth part of a knights fee.
Again, thank you.
Pat
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>From: royala...@msn.com (Douglas Richardson)
>To: GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com
>Subject: Another CP Addition: Agnes Greene, wife of William la Zouche
>Date: Sat, Mar 30, 2002, 1:48 AM
Douglas Richardson
I'm glad you found my discovery of the Zouche-Green document helpful.
Regarding the date of William la Zouche, Sr.'s death given in this
document, Complete Peerage shows that his death took place in 1382,
which date is independantly confirmed by two sources. However, in the
transcript of the Dale Abbey document which I posted, it states he
died in 1385. In this case, my guess is that someone misread the date
given in the original Dale Abbey document. The Dale Abbey document
was prepared in 1386, which is close enough to the death of William,
Sr., for all parties to have known the correct date. All the same,
clerical errors do happen.
I'm unable to comment on the relationship between Sir Richard la
Zouche and this family.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
E-mail: royala...@msn.com
paju...@erols.com (Patricia Junkin) wrote in message news:<E16rK5d-...@smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net>...
Reedpcgen
[HOP IV-1386-940-1:]
ZOUCHE,1 Sir John(d.1445), of Kirklington, Notts.
NOTTINGHAMSHIRE1407, 1413 (May), 1419, 1422, 1442
2nd s. of William, 3rd Lord Zouche of Harringworth (c.1341-1396), by his 1st w.
Agnes (d. by 1393), da. of Sir Henry Green, c.j. K.B; nephew of Thomas. m. by
Nov. 1399, Margaret (d. 23 May 1451), da. of Sir John Burgh (1328-93) of
Swinton, Yorks., Borough Green, Cambs. and Kirklington, by Katherine
(d.1409/10), da. of Sir John Dengaine† of Teversham, Cambs.; half-sis. and
coh. of Thomas Burgh (d.s.p. 1411), wid. of Sir John Lowdham (d.s.p. Aug. 1390)
of Lowdham, Notts., 1da. Kntd. by Dec. 1400.2
[1] Variants: Souche, Such(e).
[2] CP, xii (2), 942-5; Coll. Top. et Gen. i. 344; Yorks. Arch. Jnl. xxx. 337,
340-8; CIPM, xiv. no. 1017; C139/141/12; JUST 1/1514 rot. 73v.
[3] HMC Middleton, 112-14; CPR, 1391-6, p. 2; CCR, 1396-9, p. 404; CP, xii (2),
942-5; Feudal Aids, vi. 455, 477, 535
Mardi Carter
I am curious about Henry Green, the father of Agnes Green who m.
William la Zouche. W.S. Ellis wrote an article in Bedford Record
Society vol 4 pp 254-61, "Origin of the Knightly Family of Greene of
Northamptonshire" in which he questions the reason behind the name
change from Boketon to Green. Baker in his Northamptonshire vol 1 pp
31-2 tells a romantic story of the change being due to a "spacious and
delightful Green [on the "beloved" land called Boughton in Northants],
upon which.....was yearly held....a Fair with particular and
extraordinary priviledges." Thus the family changed their name to
Green
Ellis proposes that the name change reflects a first marriage of Sir
Henry Green before Katherine Drayton became his wife. He names this
earlier wife Amabilia and suggests that she might be the dau. of
Thomas de Boketon. He further believes that the sons of Henry Green,
i.e. Thomas and Henry, were half-brothers. He supports this with the
fact that the Drayton property went to the younger son Henry. He also
says Henry Green was son of another Henry Green who married a Boketon
woman. He cites records from "Final Concords" 14,17,18 Edw III.
It is too bad that the Jeayes document doesn't name Agnes' mother. If
Henry had two wives, which one is her mother?
Has anyone come across this article and looked at the original
records? I would be very interested in what the records say and in
any opinions on the matter.
Thanks, Mardi
royala...@msn.com (Douglas Richardson) wrote in message news:<5cf47a19.02032...@posting.google.com>...
Douglas Richardson
There is an interesting article in print in Notingham Medieval Studies
41 (1997): 126-156, regarding Elizabeth le Despenser, 2nd wife of
William la Zouche, 3rd Lord Zouche (died 1396). According to an
unsourced chart of the Zouche family on page 156, Richard la Zouche
was this William's brother. The author probably got their information
regarding Richard la Zouche from Baker or Bridges, two early
Northampton antiquarians.
As for William's other brother, Eudes la Zouche, I find he was a clerk
who served as Canon of Lincoln and Chancellor of Cambridge College. I
ran across a stray reference to him this past week in the interesting
book, Anglo-Norman Letters and Petitions, by M. Dominica Legge. As I
recall, he was called "cousin" by someone important. Unfortunately,
I didn't right down the reference. If I think of it next time I'm at
the library, I'll check the book again and get the reference for you.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
E-mail: royala...@msn.com
paju...@erols.com (Patricia Junkin) wrote in message news:<E16rK5d-...@smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net>...
Patricia Junkin
Thank you very much for your reply.
The IPM of William la Zouche of Haryngworth, knight, 16 May 19 R II. [1396]
states
Richard la Zouche, knight, holds for life the undermentioned manor by gift
of William la Zouche, father of the said William, the reversion belonging to
of the king in chief by service of a sixth part of a knight's fee and in
Berks. Richard la Zouche held the undermentioned lands as aboove (Norfolk
Inq.) the reversion belonging to the said William and his heirs. Nieubury.
Divers lands and tenements, held of the earl of March, services unknown.
I had placed this Richard as a brother of the William who married Agnes and
you have further confirmed this.
I also have a Eudo, son of William and Elizabeth de Ros. PRO--C 143/333/10:
William la Zouche of Harringworth to settle the manor of Barby (N'hamp.) on
himself for life, with remainder to Thomas his son and the heirs of his
body, remainder to Eudo also his son and the heirs of his body, remainder to
his own right heirs, retaining the manors of Eaton and Houghton (Bedford)
and Calstone (Wilts.), the castle of Totnes(Devon), and the manors of
Harringworth (N'hamp.), Weston in Arden, Wolvershill, and Foleshill
(Warwick), and Kilpesham (Rutland). N'hamp. Bedford. Wilts. Devon. Warwick.
Rutland. 33 EDWARD III. [1360]
In the Writ 26 October 1399 to prove age of Ivo Harleston, son of Margaret,
a daughter and heir of Margret, wife of John de Wauton...Hugh Plowrigh and
Richard Outlawe, each 58, on that day went with master Ivo la Zouch,
chancellor of Cambridge University, to the church, and after the baptism to
the house of the friars minor to hear the preaching of holy
scripture...Thomas Caldecote, 59 and Thomas Skynnere, 70, were with Master
Ivo la Zouche then chancellor of Cambridge University, in Trinity Hall, when
Roger Harleston, the father sent his servant John Dyne to ask Zouch to be
godfather....
I believe this Ivo/Eudo/Eon born ca. 1340-50 and of the right age to also
have been the brother of William who married Agnes Grene.
In the 1397 IPM of Robert de Wilughby[whose wife, Elizabeth also married a
Latimer], knight, Writ 15 August 20 R II [1398] London. He held the
undermentioned messuage, garden and shops jointly with Ives la Souche, Henry
parson of the church of Welughby, William Michel of Fryskenay and Albin de
Enerby, who are still living, by a gift of Roger de Boys [Bois/Bosco], John
de Pishall Clerk, Elian de Byntre, Robert de Asshefeld and Henry Sergeant:
St. Giles Cripplegate. A messuage called la Baascourt with garden and 14
shops.... and with these same men, Willoughby held in Middlesex St. Giles
without Cripplegate. A garden held of Reynold Braybrok, Clerk
I have not yet ascertained that this is the same as the above mentioned
Ivo...nor the following:
Philip le Despenser and James Roos, knights, Eudo la Zouche, Richard de
Wynnewyk, and Richard de Chestrefeld, clerks, Henry Malbys, parson of the
church of Willoughby, and Thomas fitz William of Mablethorpe, to grant land
in Wispington and the advowson of the church there to the abbot
and convent of Kirkstead, retaining the manor of Wispington. Linc. 2 HENRY
IV. [1401]
Pat
----------
>From: royala...@msn.com (Douglas Richardson)
>To: GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com
>Subject: Re: Another CP Addition: Agnes Greene, wife of William la Zouche
>Date: Fri, Apr 5, 2002, 5:47 PM
Douglas Richardson
I checked on the reference I mentioned regarding Eudes la Zouche in
the book, Anglo-Norman Letters and Petitions, edited by M. Dominca
Legge, published in 1941 (Anglo-Norman Text Society, No. 3).
On page 49 of this source appears a letter dated 16 August 1408 from
Henry, Prince of Wales, to Alexander Totington, Bishop of Norwich. In
the letter, Henry says:
"vous escrivatez nostre biename cousin & le vostre Maistre Eon le
Zouche."
Basically, Prince Henry is indicating that he is kinsman to Master Eon
(or Eudes) la Zouche, as is Bishop Alexander.
I haven't charted the Zouche ancestry to see how it might connect with
the ancestry of Henry, Prince of Wales. Do you know how they might
be related? Also, do you have any idea how Bishop Alexander
Totington is related? Please let us know your findings when you've
had a chance to analyze this information.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
E-mail: royala...@msn.com
paju...@erols.com (Patricia Junkin) wrote in message news:<E16u2iP-...@smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net>...
> Douglas,
Chris Phillips
<<
I checked on the reference I mentioned regarding Eudes la Zouche in
the book, Anglo-Norman Letters and Petitions, edited by M. Dominca
Legge, published in 1941 (Anglo-Norman Text Society, No. 3).
On page 49 of this source appears a letter dated 16 August 1408 from
Henry, Prince of Wales, to Alexander Totington, Bishop of Norwich. In
the letter, Henry says:
"vous escrivatez nostre biename cousin & le vostre Maistre Eon le
Zouche."
Basically, Prince Henry is indicating that he is kinsman to Master Eon
(or Eudes) la Zouche, as is Bishop Alexander.
I haven't charted the Zouche ancestry to see how it might connect with
the ancestry of Henry, Prince of Wales. Do you know how they might
be related? Also, do you have any idea how Bishop Alexander
Totington is related? Please let us know your findings when you've
had a chance to analyze this information.
>>
Assuming that the Eon referred to is the Canon of Lincoln and Chancellor of
Cambridge University who was son of William la Zouche (d.1382) [Complete
Peerage vol.12, pt 2, p.942], he would have shared a descent from
Bartholomew de Badlesmere (d.1322) with Henry V.
Eon's maternal grandmother was Bartholomew's daughter, and Henry's maternal
grandfather Humphrey de Bohun was a grandson of Bartholomew, if I've
reckoned correctly.
I don't know how Alexander Totington fits into the picture.
Chris Phillips
Chris Phillips
> Assuming that the Eon referred to is the Canon of Lincoln and Chancellor
of
> Cambridge University who was son of William la Zouche (d.1382) [Complete
> Peerage vol.12, pt 2, p.942], he would have shared a descent from
> Bartholomew de Badlesmere (d.1322) with Henry V.
>
> Eon's maternal grandmother was Bartholomew's daughter, and Henry's
maternal
> grandfather Humphrey de Bohun was a grandson of Bartholomew, if I've
> reckoned correctly.
Douglas Richardson suggested I give fuller details of the descents, which
are (based on the various accounts in the Complete Peerage):
(1) Bartholomew de Badlesmere (d.1322) = Margaret, daughter of Thomas de
Clare (she d.1333)
(2) Elizabeth (d.1356) = William de Bohun, Earl of Northampton (d.1360)
(3) Humphrey de Bohun, Earl of Hereford and Essex (d.1372/3) = Joan,
daughter of Richard, Earl of Arundel (she d.1419)
(4) Mary (d.1394) = King Henry IV
(5) King Henry V
(1) Bartholomew de Badlesmere (d.1322) = Margaret, daughter of Thomas de
Clare (she d.1333)
(2) Margery (d.1363) = William de Ros (d.1342/3)
(3) Elizabeth (d.c.1380) = William la Zouche (d.1382)
(4) Eon la Zouche, Canon of Lincoln
Chris Phillips