Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss
Mowbray of Easby
618 views
Skip to first unread message
John Watson
Feb 27, 2013, 8:35:34 PM2/27/13
to
Dear Robert,
Here is a brief overview of the Mowbray family of Easby, Yorkshire as
I have it at the moment. If you need any specific sources, I'd be
happy to oblige. If you have any sources for Joan Wateby and her third
husband William Newsome of York, I'd be interested to see them. Their
daughter Maud (d. 1457), who married firstly Sir John Hotham (d. 30
Sep 1419) is one of my ancestors.
1. William Mowbray of Easby in the parish of Stokesley, Yorkshire (ca.
1275 - ca. 1320)
William de Mowbray married before 1310 Agnes, widow of Alan Baudewyne
[Baldwin]. On 1 April 1312, Alan Romund came before the king, on
Saturday in Easter week, and sought to replevy to William de Moubray
and Agnes his wife their land in Brunton-on-Swale, taken into the
king's hands for their default against against Olive, late the wife of
Walter Gill. On 20 November 1316, William de Moubray and Ralph de
Lestre were appointed to levy and take to York the 80 quarters of
wheat and 120 of oats which they were ordered to purvey in the
wapentake of Langebergh, Yorkshire. William was dead by 1320 and had
been succeeded by his elder son Thomas de Mowbray of Easby to whom a
debt was acknowledged on 13 January 1320.
William Mowbray and Agnes had two sons, Thomas and John.
2a. Thomas Mowbray of Easby (ca. 1310 - 1377) first son of William
Mowbray and Agnes, married Alice.
On 1 May 1329, he described himself as a great-grandson of William de
Mowbray in a gift to Guisborough Priory "Willelmi de Moubray, proavi
ipsius Thomae, cujus haeres ipse est". The deed also names his wife as
Alice, "Thomam de Moubray et Alicia uxor ejus". In 1330 Thomas, son of
John de Hertford sued Thomas, son of William de Moubray for a messuage
and 140 acres of land and six acres of meadow and half a mill in
Barton near Melsamby. In 1348, the Prior of Guisbrough claimed against
Thomas de Moubray that he should acquit him of the service which the
Bishop of Durham requires for the free tenement which the Prior holds
of Thomas in Kepewyk. The will of Thomas Mubray of Esby in Cleveland
is dated 15 November 1377 and was proved on 21 November 1377.
John, son of Thomas was the ancestor of the later Mowbrays of Easby,
who seem to have died out in the late 1400s.
2b. Sir John Mowbray, (ca. 1315 - ca. 1373) second son of William
Mowbray and Agnes, married Margaret, daughter of Sir Alexander Percy
of Ormesby and Sneaton and his wife Julian.
"Johanne filio Willelmi de Moubray" was witness to a gift to
Guisborough Priory in 1347. In 1352, William, son of Sir Ivo de
Aldeburgh, gave to John, son of William de Moubray and Margaret, his
wife, his manor of Aldeburgh, in Richmondshire. On 11 July 1359 John
Moubray was appointed as a justice of the Bench.
Sir John Mowbray and Margaret Percy had three sons, Alexander, William
and John (a clergyman).
3a. Sir Alexander Mowbray, (ca. 1330 - 1370) first son of John Mowbray
and Margaret Percy married Elizabeth de Musters, daughter of Henry de
Musters of Treswell, Nottinghamshire and Kirklington, Yorkshire and
his second wife, Elizabeth Thornhill.
On 20 August 1355, Sir John de Musters (grandfather of Elizabeth)
granted by charter to John son of William Moubray and Alexander his
son and to Elizabeth daughter of Henry de Musters, now Alexander's
wife, all his manor of Kirtelyngton and all his lands in Syndreby. In
September 1367, Alexander son of John Moubray and Elizabeth his wife,
granted the manor of Kirklington to Sir John Moubray his father, for
life. On 6 February 1370, a commission of oyer and terminer was
ordered on information that many evildoers came to Kirtlyngton co,.
York, in array of war, broke the manse of the manor of John de Moubray
one of the justices of the Bench, while he was in the king's
protection, ravished and carried away Elizabeth late the wife of
Alexander Moubray, 'chivaler,' his son, took away goods of the said
John, and assaulted, wounded and imprisoned his men and servants.
Elizabeth later married the man who had abducted her - John de
Wandesford of Westwick, Yorkshire.
Alexander Mowbray and Elizabeth Musters had two children, Alexander
and Elizabeth (see below).
3b. Sir William Mowbray, (ca. 1335 - 1391) second son of John Mowbray
and Margaret Percy married firstly, Ellen and secondly Margaret
Chaumont, daughter of John Chaumont, esq. of Colton in Ainsty,
Yorkshire and his wife Joan, daughter of Richard Wateby of York.
William Mowbray died in 1391, seised of the manor of Barton,
Yorkshire, leaving a daughter Eleanor, afterwards wife of Thomas
Ingleby, and a widow Margaret. Margaret held the manor in dower until
her death in 1419, when it descended to William son of Thomas and
Eleanor Ingleby. In the will of William Mowbray of Colton, dated at
York on "le dymangue prouchayn avant le fest de Saynt Petre ad
vincula, la'n le Roy Richard le secound quynzesme" [26 July 1391] he
leaves alms to pray for the souls of his father John Mowbray, Master
John Mowbray his brother and Ellen once his wife. He also mentions
dame Margaret, his wife, dame Jane Chaumon, her sister, and Elizabeth
Gascoigne (daughter of his brother Alexander).
William Mowbray and Margaret Chaumont had an only daughter Eleanor,
who married Thomas Ingleby of Ripley, Yorkshire.
Margaret married secondly, before 25 June 1396, Walter Dallingridge
and thirdly William Cheyne. She died before 3 November 1419.
4a. Alexander Mowbray (ca. 1355 - 1380), son of Sir Alexander Mowbray
and Elizabeth Musters.
Alexander Mowbray married Eleanor in or before 1373. He died childless
about 1380 and his heir was his sister Elizabeth.
4b. Elizabeth Mowbray (ca. 1350 - 1396), daughter of Sir Alexander
Mowbray and Elizabeth Musters married Sir William Gascoigne of
Gawthorpe, Yorkshire, Chief Justice.
Best regards,
John
Here is a brief overview of the Mowbray family of Easby, Yorkshire as
I have it at the moment. If you need any specific sources, I'd be
happy to oblige. If you have any sources for Joan Wateby and her third
husband William Newsome of York, I'd be interested to see them. Their
daughter Maud (d. 1457), who married firstly Sir John Hotham (d. 30
Sep 1419) is one of my ancestors.
1. William Mowbray of Easby in the parish of Stokesley, Yorkshire (ca.
1275 - ca. 1320)
William de Mowbray married before 1310 Agnes, widow of Alan Baudewyne
[Baldwin]. On 1 April 1312, Alan Romund came before the king, on
Saturday in Easter week, and sought to replevy to William de Moubray
and Agnes his wife their land in Brunton-on-Swale, taken into the
king's hands for their default against against Olive, late the wife of
Walter Gill. On 20 November 1316, William de Moubray and Ralph de
Lestre were appointed to levy and take to York the 80 quarters of
wheat and 120 of oats which they were ordered to purvey in the
wapentake of Langebergh, Yorkshire. William was dead by 1320 and had
been succeeded by his elder son Thomas de Mowbray of Easby to whom a
debt was acknowledged on 13 January 1320.
William Mowbray and Agnes had two sons, Thomas and John.
2a. Thomas Mowbray of Easby (ca. 1310 - 1377) first son of William
Mowbray and Agnes, married Alice.
On 1 May 1329, he described himself as a great-grandson of William de
Mowbray in a gift to Guisborough Priory "Willelmi de Moubray, proavi
ipsius Thomae, cujus haeres ipse est". The deed also names his wife as
Alice, "Thomam de Moubray et Alicia uxor ejus". In 1330 Thomas, son of
John de Hertford sued Thomas, son of William de Moubray for a messuage
and 140 acres of land and six acres of meadow and half a mill in
Barton near Melsamby. In 1348, the Prior of Guisbrough claimed against
Thomas de Moubray that he should acquit him of the service which the
Bishop of Durham requires for the free tenement which the Prior holds
of Thomas in Kepewyk. The will of Thomas Mubray of Esby in Cleveland
is dated 15 November 1377 and was proved on 21 November 1377.
John, son of Thomas was the ancestor of the later Mowbrays of Easby,
who seem to have died out in the late 1400s.
2b. Sir John Mowbray, (ca. 1315 - ca. 1373) second son of William
Mowbray and Agnes, married Margaret, daughter of Sir Alexander Percy
of Ormesby and Sneaton and his wife Julian.
"Johanne filio Willelmi de Moubray" was witness to a gift to
Guisborough Priory in 1347. In 1352, William, son of Sir Ivo de
Aldeburgh, gave to John, son of William de Moubray and Margaret, his
wife, his manor of Aldeburgh, in Richmondshire. On 11 July 1359 John
Moubray was appointed as a justice of the Bench.
Sir John Mowbray and Margaret Percy had three sons, Alexander, William
and John (a clergyman).
3a. Sir Alexander Mowbray, (ca. 1330 - 1370) first son of John Mowbray
and Margaret Percy married Elizabeth de Musters, daughter of Henry de
Musters of Treswell, Nottinghamshire and Kirklington, Yorkshire and
his second wife, Elizabeth Thornhill.
On 20 August 1355, Sir John de Musters (grandfather of Elizabeth)
granted by charter to John son of William Moubray and Alexander his
son and to Elizabeth daughter of Henry de Musters, now Alexander's
wife, all his manor of Kirtelyngton and all his lands in Syndreby. In
September 1367, Alexander son of John Moubray and Elizabeth his wife,
granted the manor of Kirklington to Sir John Moubray his father, for
life. On 6 February 1370, a commission of oyer and terminer was
ordered on information that many evildoers came to Kirtlyngton co,.
York, in array of war, broke the manse of the manor of John de Moubray
one of the justices of the Bench, while he was in the king's
protection, ravished and carried away Elizabeth late the wife of
Alexander Moubray, 'chivaler,' his son, took away goods of the said
John, and assaulted, wounded and imprisoned his men and servants.
Elizabeth later married the man who had abducted her - John de
Wandesford of Westwick, Yorkshire.
Alexander Mowbray and Elizabeth Musters had two children, Alexander
and Elizabeth (see below).
3b. Sir William Mowbray, (ca. 1335 - 1391) second son of John Mowbray
and Margaret Percy married firstly, Ellen and secondly Margaret
Chaumont, daughter of John Chaumont, esq. of Colton in Ainsty,
Yorkshire and his wife Joan, daughter of Richard Wateby of York.
William Mowbray died in 1391, seised of the manor of Barton,
Yorkshire, leaving a daughter Eleanor, afterwards wife of Thomas
Ingleby, and a widow Margaret. Margaret held the manor in dower until
her death in 1419, when it descended to William son of Thomas and
Eleanor Ingleby. In the will of William Mowbray of Colton, dated at
York on "le dymangue prouchayn avant le fest de Saynt Petre ad
vincula, la'n le Roy Richard le secound quynzesme" [26 July 1391] he
leaves alms to pray for the souls of his father John Mowbray, Master
John Mowbray his brother and Ellen once his wife. He also mentions
dame Margaret, his wife, dame Jane Chaumon, her sister, and Elizabeth
Gascoigne (daughter of his brother Alexander).
William Mowbray and Margaret Chaumont had an only daughter Eleanor,
who married Thomas Ingleby of Ripley, Yorkshire.
Margaret married secondly, before 25 June 1396, Walter Dallingridge
and thirdly William Cheyne. She died before 3 November 1419.
4a. Alexander Mowbray (ca. 1355 - 1380), son of Sir Alexander Mowbray
and Elizabeth Musters.
Alexander Mowbray married Eleanor in or before 1373. He died childless
about 1380 and his heir was his sister Elizabeth.
4b. Elizabeth Mowbray (ca. 1350 - 1396), daughter of Sir Alexander
Mowbray and Elizabeth Musters married Sir William Gascoigne of
Gawthorpe, Yorkshire, Chief Justice.
Best regards,
John
Wjhonson
Feb 27, 2013, 8:59:26 PM2/27/13
to watso...@gmail.com, gen-me...@rootsweb.com
If you're now stating that William had a wife Eleanor, a daughter Eleanor, *and* a daughter-in-law Eleanor, than any mention of an Eleanor or "Ellen" Mowbray has to be pretty firmly attached to *which* Ellen.
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEV...@rootsweb.com
with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of
the message
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEV...@rootsweb.com
with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of
the message
John Watson
Feb 27, 2013, 10:07:56 PM2/27/13
to
Dear Will,
I don't really get the point you are trying to make.
1. That William Mowbray of Colton had a first wife called Ellen (or
Eleanor) is evident from his will - see Test Ebor. i, 158-161). "Item
jeo devys tut le residu de mon vif chatell pour estre done pour lez
almes Monsier John Moubray mon pier, Mestre John Moubray mon frere,
Elyn Moubray jadis ma femme, dez queux jeo ay divers biens saunz
assech fair a lour almes el valu de lour bienz par moy resceux."
2. That William Mowbray of Colton and his second wife Margaret
Chaumont had a daughter called Eleanor who married Thomas Ingleby and
had a son called William Ingleby is evident from this entry in the
Close Rolls:
28 June 1429, To the escheator in Yorkshire. Order to give William
Ingilby, son of Eleanor daughter of William Moubray and of Margaret
his wife who was wife of William Cheyne knight, she being cousin and
heir of William Moubray and Margaret, seisin of all lands whereof the
said Margaret was seised in fee and in fee tail, and those of his
heritage which she held for life after the death of William Moubray;
as he has proved his age before the escheator, and the king has taken
his homage and fealty. To the escheator in Lincolnshire. Like order,
as William Ingilby has proved his age before the escheator in
Yorkshire. Like writ to the mayor of the city of York, being escheator
therein.
Calendar of Close Rolls, Henry VI: volume 1: 1422-1429 (1933), p. 441
3. That Alexander Mowbray son of Sir Alexander Mowbray had a wife
called Eleanor is evident from the following fine:
Westminster. Morrow of St. John Baptist, 47 Edw. III, 1373. Octave of
Michaelmas, 48 Edw. III, 1374. Alexander Moubray and Eleanour his
wife, quer., John Moubray, clerk, def., of the moiety of the manor of
Wath near Rypon, which Maude widow of Robert Marmyon, chivaler, holds
for life of the inheritance of John : To hold to Alexander and
Eleanour and the heirs of their bodies, after the death of Maude ;
remainder to William Moubray, son of John Moubray, chivaler, and the
heirs of his body ; remainder to the right heirs of Alexander.
Alexander and Eleanour gave 100 marks.
Yorkshire Archaeological Society, Record Series, Vol. 52, Feet of
Fines for Yorkshire, 1347-77 (1915) p. 173, No. 1
I still don't see the problem here.
Regards,
John
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEVAL-requ...@rootsweb.com
I don't really get the point you are trying to make.
1. That William Mowbray of Colton had a first wife called Ellen (or
Eleanor) is evident from his will - see Test Ebor. i, 158-161). "Item
jeo devys tut le residu de mon vif chatell pour estre done pour lez
almes Monsier John Moubray mon pier, Mestre John Moubray mon frere,
Elyn Moubray jadis ma femme, dez queux jeo ay divers biens saunz
assech fair a lour almes el valu de lour bienz par moy resceux."
2. That William Mowbray of Colton and his second wife Margaret
Chaumont had a daughter called Eleanor who married Thomas Ingleby and
had a son called William Ingleby is evident from this entry in the
Close Rolls:
28 June 1429, To the escheator in Yorkshire. Order to give William
Ingilby, son of Eleanor daughter of William Moubray and of Margaret
his wife who was wife of William Cheyne knight, she being cousin and
heir of William Moubray and Margaret, seisin of all lands whereof the
said Margaret was seised in fee and in fee tail, and those of his
heritage which she held for life after the death of William Moubray;
as he has proved his age before the escheator, and the king has taken
his homage and fealty. To the escheator in Lincolnshire. Like order,
as William Ingilby has proved his age before the escheator in
Yorkshire. Like writ to the mayor of the city of York, being escheator
therein.
Calendar of Close Rolls, Henry VI: volume 1: 1422-1429 (1933), p. 441
3. That Alexander Mowbray son of Sir Alexander Mowbray had a wife
called Eleanor is evident from the following fine:
Westminster. Morrow of St. John Baptist, 47 Edw. III, 1373. Octave of
Michaelmas, 48 Edw. III, 1374. Alexander Moubray and Eleanour his
wife, quer., John Moubray, clerk, def., of the moiety of the manor of
Wath near Rypon, which Maude widow of Robert Marmyon, chivaler, holds
for life of the inheritance of John : To hold to Alexander and
Eleanour and the heirs of their bodies, after the death of Maude ;
remainder to William Moubray, son of John Moubray, chivaler, and the
heirs of his body ; remainder to the right heirs of Alexander.
Alexander and Eleanour gave 100 marks.
Yorkshire Archaeological Society, Record Series, Vol. 52, Feet of
Fines for Yorkshire, 1347-77 (1915) p. 173, No. 1
I still don't see the problem here.
Regards,
John
Wjhonson
Feb 27, 2013, 10:22:31 PM2/27/13
to watso...@gmail.com, gen-me...@rootsweb.com
I never said there was a *problem*
I said that *if* an Ellen Mowbray appears on the scene, the document has to specify exactly which one since there were three women of this name, all living in the same household at the same time, apparently.
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEV...@rootsweb.com
I said that *if* an Ellen Mowbray appears on the scene, the document has to specify exactly which one since there were three women of this name, all living in the same household at the same time, apparently.
John Watson
Feb 28, 2013, 3:51:23 AM2/28/13
to
Hi Will,
As Ellen, the first wife of Sir William Mowbray was dead before he
married his second wife Margaret and had a daughter Eleanor, I do not
see how Ellen and Eleanor could be living at the same time. I also
don't know how you figure they were living in the same household. We
don't know where William Mowbray lived when he was married to Ellen,
although he probably lived in Colton after he married Margaret, since
it was her inheritance. His brother Alexander probably lived in
Treswell, Nottinghamshire since he granted the manor of Kirklington,
Yorkshire to John his father for life. Where Alexander son of
Alexander and his wife Eleanor lived is not known. How are these the
same household?
Regards,
John
As Ellen, the first wife of Sir William Mowbray was dead before he
married his second wife Margaret and had a daughter Eleanor, I do not
see how Ellen and Eleanor could be living at the same time. I also
don't know how you figure they were living in the same household. We
don't know where William Mowbray lived when he was married to Ellen,
although he probably lived in Colton after he married Margaret, since
it was her inheritance. His brother Alexander probably lived in
Treswell, Nottinghamshire since he granted the manor of Kirklington,
Yorkshire to John his father for life. Where Alexander son of
Alexander and his wife Eleanor lived is not known. How are these the
same household?
Regards,
John
Robert Bank
Feb 28, 2013, 8:51:47 AM2/28/13
to John Watson, MEDIEVAL ENQUIRIES
Dear John
JOAN DE WATEBY was daughter and heiress of Richard de Wateby, bailiff of
York in 1356-7, and mayor in 1365. Her first husband was John de Chaumont of
Colton, descendant, probably great-great-grandson of Gaceus de Chaumont,
Mayor of York in 1256. By John she had two daughters, Margaret and Joan.
Margaret married William Moubray, who because of his marriage, became then
“of Colton”; Joan entered the nunnery of Chicksand Priory and eventually
became Prioress.
By Richard de Hebden, her second husband, she had two sons, Thomas, dean of
the collegiate church of Auckland and rector of Welton, etc., and John, who
succeeded to Hebden, and who married Anastasia. Sir Richard died about 1385,
and was buried in the church of St. John the Evangelist, near Ouse Bridge.
In 1379 Richard and Joan had presented Dominus Thomas Quixlay to the living
of a chantry in this church.
Richard’s widow married William Newsom, Esq., by whom she had two daughters,
Joan, first the wife of Richard Wandesford, esq., of Calais, and afterwards
of John Fytling, merchant, of Hull; and Matilda, the wife of Sir John
Hotham, knight, of Scorborough. "Joan Hebbeden, relict of William Newsom, of
York," died in 1427, and was buried in the above church of St. John.
A summary of some of these relationships is in the will of Thomas Hebden
(The Publications of the Surtees Society, Volume 2):
“……And if it should happen to me to expire within the city or diocese of
York I leave my body to be buried next to my parents before the altar of the
Blessed Virgin Mary in the church of St John the Evangelist by Ouse bridge
in the same city of York.
Item I leave to John Hebbeden, my older brother, my best complete bed, with
appurtenances, one silver and gilt covered cup made in the fashion of a
chalice. Item I leave to Joan Fitlyng, my sister, one covered bowl of
silver, called ‘le Rose’. Item I leave to Matilda Hothom, my sister, one
covered bowl of silver with one chaplet on the cover. Item I leave to lady
Joan Chawman my sister, prioress of Chiksond in the county of Bedford and
the convent 40s…….. Item I leave to Anastasia Hebbeden my better hood of
gray. Item I leave to Elizabeth Bekwith, my kinswoman, my better hood of
puryd, except the hood of my cloak. Item to Master George Plumpton, my
kinsman, one piece of covered silver with a rose in the midst of the
cup……Item I leave to Robert Vavassor 5 marks…… Item I leave to John Hothom,
my nephew, my better sword and one whole armour.”
Probate given at Stokton 18 July 1435.
It should be noted that the Thomas Ingleby who married Eleanor Mowbray was
the son of the John Ingleby involved in the foundation of Mount Grace
priory, and NOT the father as is shown in most pedigrees of the Ingleby
family. Elizabeth Ingleby, daughter of this marriage, herself married Thomas
Bekwith of Clint and is the Elizabeth in this will. I do not know the
relationship between Thomas Hebbeden and George Plumpton.
On a personal note, you will no doubt have the IPM of your ancestor John
Hothom who died in 1419 which showed he was T-I-C of Whixley which was mesne
tenancy of Thomas Bank (and Hanlath Mauleverer).
Kind regards Robert
JOAN DE WATEBY was daughter and heiress of Richard de Wateby, bailiff of
York in 1356-7, and mayor in 1365. Her first husband was John de Chaumont of
Colton, descendant, probably great-great-grandson of Gaceus de Chaumont,
Mayor of York in 1256. By John she had two daughters, Margaret and Joan.
Margaret married William Moubray, who because of his marriage, became then
“of Colton”; Joan entered the nunnery of Chicksand Priory and eventually
became Prioress.
By Richard de Hebden, her second husband, she had two sons, Thomas, dean of
the collegiate church of Auckland and rector of Welton, etc., and John, who
succeeded to Hebden, and who married Anastasia. Sir Richard died about 1385,
and was buried in the church of St. John the Evangelist, near Ouse Bridge.
In 1379 Richard and Joan had presented Dominus Thomas Quixlay to the living
of a chantry in this church.
Richard’s widow married William Newsom, Esq., by whom she had two daughters,
Joan, first the wife of Richard Wandesford, esq., of Calais, and afterwards
of John Fytling, merchant, of Hull; and Matilda, the wife of Sir John
Hotham, knight, of Scorborough. "Joan Hebbeden, relict of William Newsom, of
York," died in 1427, and was buried in the above church of St. John.
A summary of some of these relationships is in the will of Thomas Hebden
(The Publications of the Surtees Society, Volume 2):
“……And if it should happen to me to expire within the city or diocese of
York I leave my body to be buried next to my parents before the altar of the
Blessed Virgin Mary in the church of St John the Evangelist by Ouse bridge
in the same city of York.
Item I leave to John Hebbeden, my older brother, my best complete bed, with
appurtenances, one silver and gilt covered cup made in the fashion of a
chalice. Item I leave to Joan Fitlyng, my sister, one covered bowl of
silver, called ‘le Rose’. Item I leave to Matilda Hothom, my sister, one
covered bowl of silver with one chaplet on the cover. Item I leave to lady
Joan Chawman my sister, prioress of Chiksond in the county of Bedford and
the convent 40s…….. Item I leave to Anastasia Hebbeden my better hood of
gray. Item I leave to Elizabeth Bekwith, my kinswoman, my better hood of
puryd, except the hood of my cloak. Item to Master George Plumpton, my
kinsman, one piece of covered silver with a rose in the midst of the
cup……Item I leave to Robert Vavassor 5 marks…… Item I leave to John Hothom,
my nephew, my better sword and one whole armour.”
Probate given at Stokton 18 July 1435.
It should be noted that the Thomas Ingleby who married Eleanor Mowbray was
the son of the John Ingleby involved in the foundation of Mount Grace
priory, and NOT the father as is shown in most pedigrees of the Ingleby
family. Elizabeth Ingleby, daughter of this marriage, herself married Thomas
Bekwith of Clint and is the Elizabeth in this will. I do not know the
relationship between Thomas Hebbeden and George Plumpton.
On a personal note, you will no doubt have the IPM of your ancestor John
Hothom who died in 1419 which showed he was T-I-C of Whixley which was mesne
tenancy of Thomas Bank (and Hanlath Mauleverer).
Kind regards Robert
Wjhonson
Feb 28, 2013, 1:58:58 PM2/28/13
to watso...@gmail.com, gen-me...@rootsweb.com
Perhaps *household* is the wrong word.
But whenever you have three women of the same name all living so closely intertwined, it's quite possible to get them mixed together.
-----Original Message-----
From: John Watson <watso...@gmail.com>
To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEV...@rootsweb.com
But whenever you have three women of the same name all living so closely intertwined, it's quite possible to get them mixed together.
-----Original Message-----
From: John Watson <watso...@gmail.com>
To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
CE Wood
Feb 28, 2013, 6:05:56 PM2/28/13
to
So Moriarty was incorrect in stating that Margaret de Percy was the sister, not the daughter of Sir Alexander Percy?
Moriarty, G. Andrews, "Mowbray of Kirklington", NEGHR vol. 120, p.174.
"...Margaret...sister of Sir Alexander de Percy of Ormesby"
CE Wood
Moriarty, G. Andrews, "Mowbray of Kirklington", NEGHR vol. 120, p.174.
"...Margaret...sister of Sir Alexander de Percy of Ormesby"
CE Wood
John Watson
Mar 1, 2013, 12:40:03 AM3/1/13
to
Hi CE,
Joseph Foster, The Visitation of Yorkshire in 1584/5 and 1612 (London:
1875) p. 282 says that she was daughter of Sir Alexander Percy and
sister of Sir Alexander Percy, although I can't find any contemporary
record of the younger Sir Alexander.
Regards,
John
Joseph Foster, The Visitation of Yorkshire in 1584/5 and 1612 (London:
1875) p. 282 says that she was daughter of Sir Alexander Percy and
sister of Sir Alexander Percy, although I can't find any contemporary
record of the younger Sir Alexander.
Regards,
John
John Watson
Mar 1, 2013, 3:02:04 AM3/1/13
to
Hi again,
On chronological grounds it seems unlikely that Margaret was Sir
Alexander Percy's sister. Alexander's father, William Percy of Kildale
died on 22 April 1295 in Wales. If Margaret was his daughter, she must
have been born in or before 1295. We don't know when Margaret died but
her husband John Mowbray was still alive in 1370 and I estimate that
he was born about 1310. It seems unlikely that he would marry a woman
at least 15 years older than himself.
Sir Alexander Percy, who was said to be 14 years old at the
inquisition post mortem of his father in July 1295 was born about
1280.
On chronological grounds it seems unlikely that Margaret was Sir
Alexander Percy's sister. Alexander's father, William Percy of Kildale
died on 22 April 1295 in Wales. If Margaret was his daughter, she must
have been born in or before 1295. We don't know when Margaret died but
her husband John Mowbray was still alive in 1370 and I estimate that
he was born about 1310. It seems unlikely that he would marry a woman
at least 15 years older than himself.
Sir Alexander Percy, who was said to be 14 years old at the
inquisition post mortem of his father in July 1295 was born about
1280.
Robert Bank
Mar 1, 2013, 6:41:56 AM3/1/13
to Wjhonson, MEDIEVAL ENQUIRIES
Will,
Is that the voice of personal experience?
Robert
-----Original Message-----
From: Wjhonson
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 6:58 PM
To: watso...@gmail.com ; gen-me...@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: Mowbray of Easby
GEN-MEDIEV...@rootsweb.com
Is that the voice of personal experience?
Robert
-----Original Message-----
From: Wjhonson
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 6:58 PM
To: watso...@gmail.com ; gen-me...@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: Mowbray of Easby
Perhaps *household* is the wrong word.
But whenever you have three women of the same name all living so closely
intertwined, it's quite possible to get them mixed together.
But whenever you have three women of the same name all living so closely
intertwined, it's quite possible to get them mixed together.
-----Original Message-----
From: John Watson <watso...@gmail.com>
To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
From: John Watson <watso...@gmail.com>
To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thu, Feb 28, 2013 1:22 am
CE Wood
Mar 1, 2013, 2:11:19 PM3/1/13
to
Thanks, John. The continual confusion of sons and fathers. I agree with your conclusion.
CE Wood
CE Wood
Wjhonson
Mar 1, 2013, 2:27:58 PM3/1/13
to woo...@msn.com, gen-me...@rootsweb.com
The IPM of William
http://books.google.com/books?id=0GoKAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA11#v=onepage&q&f=true
-----Original Message-----
From: CE Wood <woo...@msn.com>
To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Fri, Mar 1, 2013 11:16 am
Subject: Re: Mowbray of Easby
http://books.google.com/books?id=0GoKAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA11#v=onepage&q&f=true
-----Original Message-----
From: CE Wood <woo...@msn.com>
To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Fri, Mar 1, 2013 11:16 am
Subject: Re: Mowbray of Easby
Wjhonson
Mar 1, 2013, 2:42:00 PM3/1/13
to wjho...@aol.com, woo...@msn.com, gen-me...@rootsweb.com
Please review note x
http://books.google.com/books?id=kS1SAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA135
-----Original Message-----
From: Wjhonson <wjho...@aol.com>
To: wood_ce <woo...@msn.com>; gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Fri, Mar 1, 2013 11:30 am
Subject: Re: Mowbray of Easby
The IPM of William
http://books.google.com/books?id=0GoKAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA11#v=onepage&q&f=true
-----Original Message-----
From: CE Wood <woo...@msn.com>
To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Fri, Mar 1, 2013 11:16 am
Subject: Re: Mowbray of Easby
http://books.google.com/books?id=kS1SAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA135
-----Original Message-----
From: Wjhonson <wjho...@aol.com>
To: wood_ce <woo...@msn.com>; gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Fri, Mar 1, 2013 11:30 am
Subject: Re: Mowbray of Easby
The IPM of William
http://books.google.com/books?id=0GoKAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA11#v=onepage&q&f=true
-----Original Message-----
From: CE Wood <woo...@msn.com>
To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Fri, Mar 1, 2013 11:16 am
Subject: Re: Mowbray of Easby
Wjhonson
Mar 1, 2013, 3:24:55 PM3/1/13
to wjho...@aol.com, woo...@msn.com, gen-me...@rootsweb.com
I had not previously had these Percys of Kildale attached to their royal descent, but this source gives it
http://books.google.com/books?id=25dbAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA240#v=onepage&q&f=true
-----Original Message-----
From: Wjhonson <wjho...@aol.com>
To: wjhonson <wjho...@aol.com>; wood_ce <woo...@msn.com>; gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Fri, Mar 1, 2013 11:42 am
Subject: Re: Mowbray of Easby
Please review note x
http://books.google.com/books?id=kS1SAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA135
-----Original Message-----
From: Wjhonson <wjho...@aol.com>
To: wood_ce <woo...@msn.com>; gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Fri, Mar 1, 2013 11:30 am
Subject: Re: Mowbray of Easby
The IPM of William
http://books.google.com/books?id=0GoKAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA11#v=onepage&q&f=true
-----Original Message-----
From: CE Wood <woo...@msn.com>
To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Fri, Mar 1, 2013 11:16 am
Subject: Re: Mowbray of Easby
http://books.google.com/books?id=25dbAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA240#v=onepage&q&f=true
-----Original Message-----
From: Wjhonson <wjho...@aol.com>
To: wjhonson <wjho...@aol.com>; wood_ce <woo...@msn.com>; gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Fri, Mar 1, 2013 11:42 am
Subject: Re: Mowbray of Easby
Please review note x
http://books.google.com/books?id=kS1SAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA135
-----Original Message-----
From: Wjhonson <wjho...@aol.com>
To: wood_ce <woo...@msn.com>; gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Fri, Mar 1, 2013 11:30 am
Subject: Re: Mowbray of Easby
The IPM of William
http://books.google.com/books?id=0GoKAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA11#v=onepage&q&f=true
-----Original Message-----
From: CE Wood <woo...@msn.com>
To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Fri, Mar 1, 2013 11:16 am
Subject: Re: Mowbray of Easby
John Watson
Mar 2, 2013, 7:10:21 AM3/2/13
to
Hi Will,
What is your question concerning the inquisition into the mental
health of William Percy of Kildale the elder?
William Percy, the younger son of this William died shortly after his
father, see his ipm:
The inquisition post mortem of William de Percy the Younger of
Kildale, was taken at York, on Sunday, the eve of St. Peter ad
vincula, 23 Edw (31 Jul 1295). The jurors found that he held no lands
of the king in chief and that he held Ormesby with Caldecotes (Cargo
Fleet) of Arnald de Percy his brother. He did all foreign services to
William de Percy his father and after the father's decease to Arnald
de Percy, son and heir of William de Percy the elder his father.
Alexander, son of the said William the younger, deceased, is his next
heir is aged fourteen years. William died in Wales on Friday before
the feast of St. Mark the Evangelist, in the year abovesaid (22 April
1295).
Yorkshire Archaeological Society, Record Series, Vol. 31, Yorkshire
Inquisitions Vol III (1902) pp. 11-12
Regards,
John
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEVAL-requ...@rootsweb.com
What is your question concerning the inquisition into the mental
health of William Percy of Kildale the elder?
William Percy, the younger son of this William died shortly after his
father, see his ipm:
The inquisition post mortem of William de Percy the Younger of
Kildale, was taken at York, on Sunday, the eve of St. Peter ad
vincula, 23 Edw (31 Jul 1295). The jurors found that he held no lands
of the king in chief and that he held Ormesby with Caldecotes (Cargo
Fleet) of Arnald de Percy his brother. He did all foreign services to
William de Percy his father and after the father's decease to Arnald
de Percy, son and heir of William de Percy the elder his father.
Alexander, son of the said William the younger, deceased, is his next
heir is aged fourteen years. William died in Wales on Friday before
the feast of St. Mark the Evangelist, in the year abovesaid (22 April
1295).
Yorkshire Archaeological Society, Record Series, Vol. 31, Yorkshire
Inquisitions Vol III (1902) pp. 11-12
Regards,
John
>
> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of
> the message
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEVAL-requ...@rootsweb.com
> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of
> the message
>
> -------------------------------
John Watson
Mar 2, 2013, 7:27:07 AM3/2/13
to
Rubbish.
The Percies of Kildale descended from Ernald de Percy, a relative of
the first William de Percy who re-founded Whitby Abbey and later died
on crusade in 1096. The exact relationship between William and Ernald
is not known. Ernald died after 1135.
See: William Farrer, Early Yorkshire Charters, Vol. II (Edinburgh:
1915) p. 90n
Regards,
John
On Mar 2, 3:24 am, Wjhonson <wjhon...@aol.com> wrote:
> I had not previously had these Percys of Kildale attached to their royal descent, but this source gives it
>
> http://books.google.com/books?id=25dbAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA240#v=onepage&q&f=...
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEVAL-requ...@rootsweb.com
The Percies of Kildale descended from Ernald de Percy, a relative of
the first William de Percy who re-founded Whitby Abbey and later died
on crusade in 1096. The exact relationship between William and Ernald
is not known. Ernald died after 1135.
See: William Farrer, Early Yorkshire Charters, Vol. II (Edinburgh:
1915) p. 90n
Regards,
John
On Mar 2, 3:24 am, Wjhonson <wjhon...@aol.com> wrote:
> I had not previously had these Percys of Kildale attached to their royal descent, but this source gives it
>
> To: wjhonson <wjhon...@aol.com>; wood_ce <wood...@msn.com>; gen-medieval <gen-medie...@rootsweb.com>
> Sent: Fri, Mar 1, 2013 11:42 am
> Subject: Re: Mowbray of Easby
>
> Please review note x
>
> http://books.google.com/books?id=kS1SAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA135
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Sent: Fri, Mar 1, 2013 11:42 am
> Subject: Re: Mowbray of Easby
>
> Please review note x
>
> http://books.google.com/books?id=kS1SAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA135
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Wjhonson <wjhon...@aol.com>
> To: wood_ce <wood...@msn.com>; gen-medieval <gen-medie...@rootsweb.com>
> To: wood_ce <wood...@msn.com>; gen-medieval <gen-medie...@rootsweb.com>
>
> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of
> the message
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEVAL-requ...@rootsweb.com
> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of
> the message
>
> -------------------------------
Wjhonson
Mar 2, 2013, 9:03:52 AM3/2/13
to watso...@gmail.com, gen-me...@rootsweb.com
Review
http://books.google.com/books?id=25dbAAAAQAAJ&dq=percy%20of%20kyldale&pg=PA240#v=onepage&q&f=true
That the Kildales descended from the lords at Kirk Levington
a manor whose forbear was Josceline de Lorraine and Agnes de Percy
So these Percy's took the name of their ancestral mother, not father
-----Original Message-----
From: John Watson <watso...@gmail.com>
To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEV...@rootsweb.com
http://books.google.com/books?id=25dbAAAAQAAJ&dq=percy%20of%20kyldale&pg=PA240#v=onepage&q&f=true
That the Kildales descended from the lords at Kirk Levington
a manor whose forbear was Josceline de Lorraine and Agnes de Percy
So these Percy's took the name of their ancestral mother, not father
-----Original Message-----
From: John Watson <watso...@gmail.com>
To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Wjhonson
Mar 2, 2013, 9:08:44 AM3/2/13
to watso...@gmail.com, gen-me...@rootsweb.com
You don't believe that Agnes was the grandaughter of Stephen de Walleys ?
-----Original Message-----
From: John Watson <watso...@gmail.com>
To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
-----Original Message-----
From: John Watson <watso...@gmail.com>
To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wed, Feb 27, 2013 5:40 pm
Subject: Mowbray of Easby
Subject: Mowbray of Easby
Wjhonson
Mar 2, 2013, 9:13:51 AM3/2/13
to watso...@gmail.com, gen-me...@rootsweb.com
what's the source for the acknowledgment of a debt to Thomas de Mowbray in 1320
-----Original Message-----
From: John Watson <watso...@gmail.com>
To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wed, Feb 27, 2013 5:40 pm
Subject: Mowbray of Easby
-----Original Message-----
From: John Watson <watso...@gmail.com>
To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wed, Feb 27, 2013 5:40 pm
Subject: Mowbray of Easby
Wjhonson
Mar 2, 2013, 9:27:55 AM3/2/13
to watso...@gmail.com, gen-me...@rootsweb.com
I hadn't realized that Eleanor de Mowbray wife firstly to Thomas Ingleby; died v.m.
But this shows she must have in order for William to be the heir of his grandmother
-----Original Message-----
From: John Watson <watso...@gmail.com>
To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wed, Feb 27, 2013 7:10 pm
Subject: Re: Mowbray of Easby
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEV...@rootsweb.com
But this shows she must have in order for William to be the heir of his grandmother
-----Original Message-----
From: John Watson <watso...@gmail.com>
To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wed, Feb 27, 2013 7:10 pm
Subject: Re: Mowbray of Easby
John Watson
Mar 2, 2013, 9:29:13 AM3/2/13
to
On Mar 2, 9:03 pm, Wjhonson <wjhon...@aol.com> wrote:
> Review
>
> http://books.google.com/books?id=25dbAAAAQAAJ&dq=percy%20of%20kyldale...
Rubbish
> Review
>
> http://books.google.com/books?id=25dbAAAAQAAJ&dq=percy%20of%20kyldale...
John Watson
Mar 2, 2013, 9:30:36 AM3/2/13
to
> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of
> the message
Calendar of Close Rolls, Edward II, 1318-1323 (HMSO, London: 1895) p.
> the message
218
Wjhonson
Mar 2, 2013, 9:32:20 AM3/2/13
to watso...@gmail.com, gen-me...@rootsweb.com
Your third item shows more.
It shows that this Alexander was an adult in 1373
-----Original Message-----
From: John Watson <watso...@gmail.com>
To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wed, Feb 27, 2013 7:10 pm
Subject: Re: Mowbray of Easby
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEV...@rootsweb.com
It shows that this Alexander was an adult in 1373
-----Original Message-----
From: John Watson <watso...@gmail.com>
To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wed, Feb 27, 2013 7:10 pm
Subject: Re: Mowbray of Easby
Wjhonson
Mar 2, 2013, 9:45:56 AM3/2/13
to watso...@gmail.com, gen-me...@rootsweb.com
It's online
http://www.archive.org/stream/cu31924091068985#page/n229/mode/1up
-----Original Message-----
From: John Watson <watso...@gmail.com>
To: Wjhonson <wjho...@aol.com>
Cc: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sat, Mar 2, 2013 6:25 am
Subject: Re: Mowbray of Easby
John
On 2 March 2013 21:13, Wjhonson <wjho...@aol.com> wrote:
what's the source for the acknowledgment of a debt to Thomas de Mowbray in 1320
http://www.archive.org/stream/cu31924091068985#page/n229/mode/1up
-----Original Message-----
From: John Watson <watso...@gmail.com>
To: Wjhonson <wjho...@aol.com>
Cc: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sat, Mar 2, 2013 6:25 am
Subject: Re: Mowbray of Easby
Calendar of Close Rolls, Edward II, 1318-1323 (HMSO, London: 1895) p. 218
Regards,
John
On 2 March 2013 21:13, Wjhonson <wjho...@aol.com> wrote:
what's the source for the acknowledgment of a debt to Thomas de Mowbray in 1320
-----Original Message-----
From: John Watson <watso...@gmail.com>
To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wed, Feb 27, 2013 5:40 pm
Subject: Mowbray of Easby
From: John Watson <watso...@gmail.com>
To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wed, Feb 27, 2013 5:40 pm
Subject: Mowbray of Easby
Wjhonson
Mar 2, 2013, 10:23:54 AM3/2/13
to robert...@homecall.co.uk, watso...@gmail.com, GEN-ME...@rootsweb.com
Your Joan de Wautby goes here
http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00567140&tree=LEO
Ancestral to the Duchess of Cornwall (slut)
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Bank <robert...@homecall.co.uk>
To: John Watson <watso...@gmail.com>; MEDIEVAL ENQUIRIES <GEN-ME...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thu, Feb 28, 2013 6:27 am
Subject: Re: Mowbray of Easby
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEV...@rootsweb.com
http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00567140&tree=LEO
Ancestral to the Duchess of Cornwall (slut)
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Bank <robert...@homecall.co.uk>
To: John Watson <watso...@gmail.com>; MEDIEVAL ENQUIRIES <GEN-ME...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thu, Feb 28, 2013 6:27 am
Subject: Re: Mowbray of Easby
John Watson
Mar 2, 2013, 9:20:33 AM3/2/13
to Wjhonson, gen-me...@rootsweb.com
No
Regards,
John
On 2 March 2013 21:08, Wjhonson <wjho...@aol.com> wrote:
> You don't believe that Agnes was the grandaughter of Stephen de Walleys ?
>
>
>
Regards,
John
On 2 March 2013 21:08, Wjhonson <wjho...@aol.com> wrote:
> You don't believe that Agnes was the grandaughter of Stephen de Walleys ?
>
>
>
John Watson
Mar 2, 2013, 9:25:38 AM3/2/13
to Wjhonson, gen-me...@rootsweb.com
Calendar of Close Rolls, Edward II, 1318-1323 (HMSO, London: 1895) p. 218
Regards,
John
On 2 March 2013 21:13, Wjhonson <wjho...@aol.com> wrote:
> what's the source for the acknowledgment of a debt to Thomas de Mowbray
> in 1320
>
>
>
>
>
neilmo...@gmail.com
Jun 29, 2016, 11:30:42 AM6/29/16
to
neilmo...@gmail.com
Jun 29, 2016, 11:47:38 AM6/29/16
to
John Watson
Jun 30, 2016, 3:01:41 AM6/30/16
to
I'm afraid I can't help you very much. I have nothing on the Mowbrays of Easby after Christopher Mowbray 'gentleman' who died in January 1482. I doubt that they have any connection with Mowbrays in Leicestershire, but you never know.
Regards,
John
John Watson
Jun 30, 2016, 4:43:44 AM6/30/16
to
I was wondering where you got your information from.
It it appears to be a very badly garbled version of the Visitation of London, 1663-5, pedigree of Smithsby, which shows William Smithby of Melton Mowbray, Leicestershire marrying Ursula, daughter of Nicholas Browne of Melton [Mowbray].
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=NvwUAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA247
Also the will of Roland Emmerson of Stanhope, co. Durham, dated 15 March 1560, which mentions his son-in-law John Mowbray.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=6msS60oOxrgC&pg=RA1-PR7&dq#v=onepage&q&f=false
Still can't help you.
Regards,
John
0 new messages