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Leche/Leech of Chatsworth
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Robert O'Connor
Mar 25, 2017, 6:41:32 PM3/25/17
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I found reference to a pedigree of the above family, who sold Chatsworth to the Cavendishs in the mid sixteeneth century, in 'The Topographer', Volume III (1791), p 318. Unfortunately, I have been only been able to locate Volumes I and II online. I wonder if anyone have access to Volume III?
Many thanks
Robert O'Connor
Many thanks
Robert O'Connor
rbe...@fernside.co.nz
Mar 25, 2017, 7:27:34 PM3/25/17
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I have vols 1-IV.
What would you like.
Cheers
Rosie
taf
Mar 25, 2017, 8:17:55 PM3/25/17
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https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/009962118?type%5B%5D=all&lookfor%5B%5D=the%20topographer&ft=ft
taf
Robert O'Connor
Mar 25, 2017, 8:46:33 PM3/25/17
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Robert
Robert O'Connor
Mar 25, 2017, 8:47:48 PM3/25/17
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That's kind of you - I am after a copy of the Leche pedigree which I understand is on page 318 of Vol III.
Robert
taf
Mar 25, 2017, 9:18:55 PM3/25/17
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On Saturday, March 25, 2017 at 5:46:33 PM UTC-7, Robert O'Connor wrote:
> On Sunday, 26 March 2017 13:17:55 UTC+13, taf wrote:
> > Volumes I-IV are available here:
> > https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/009962118?type%5B%5D=all&lookfor%5B%5D=the%20topographer&ft=ft
> >
> On Sunday, 26 March 2017 13:17:55 UTC+13, taf wrote:
> > Volumes I-IV are available here:
> > https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/009962118?type%5B%5D=all&lookfor%5B%5D=the%20topographer&ft=ft
> >
> But only for searching unfortunately, not full viewing.
Huh. I can see the whole thing, and with it being published in 1790, there is no way it should have been set up with differential copyright in different countries.
The pedigree actually begins on p. 317, and is in text format:
[begin Leech section]
Pedigree of Leech of Chatsworth
_ _ _ _ Leech of CHatsworth, was father of Sir William Leech of Chatsworth, Knt. who had issue Dunkin Leech of the same, father of Philip, father of Dunkin, who had issue. I. Roger Leech of Beaureper, Knt. Lord High Treasurer of England, 8 Hen. V, 1416, father of Isabel, wife of Sampson Meverell of Throwley; of Anne, wife of John Sacheverell; and of another daughter married to Sier Edward Foljamb. II. Sir Philip Leech, Knt.* Treasurer of the wars of France, -in 6 Hen. V. he kept the hill next the abbey at the siege of Roan, was captain of Monceaux and Newcastle ; and 8 Hen. V. was sent together with the Earls Marshall, &c. into the country of Maine;+ -he had issue [end of page]
[footnotes]
* In 6 Hen. V, this Philip, and Thomas Knoveton, had both lands in Mercaston.
+ See Holinshed, p. 1194 ----- Ao. 3 Hen. V. Derb. - Rogerus Leche Chr. et Philippus filius ejusdem Rogeri pro custodia Manerii de Bolsovere, quod Robtus Litton nuper tenuit. ---12 Apr., --Rot. 14. Ex Archivis.
[p. 318]
Eleanor, married to Robert Kniveton; and Robert Leech, who by Elizabeth, daughter of Roben, and Joan his wife daughter and sole heir of Nicolas Padley, was father of Alice, wife of Hugh Annesley, of Annesley, Elizabeth,wife of Shirley, of Shirley; Joan married to Peter Pole; Ralph married to Elizabeth, daughter of ------- Ducant; John; and Philip, son and heir, who by Anne, daughter of Edward Vernon, younger son of Sir Richard Vernon of Haddon, had Anne, who had an annuity of 5 marks out of the lands of Borchet and Wardlow ; Ralph, who married the daughter of Okeover, of Okeover, and had the manor of Tottenley and lands in Done, by the gift of his father; and George, son and heir, who married Anne, eldest daughter of Thomas Babington, of Dethick, Esq. who surviving him, remarried Roger Greenehaugh, Esq.
Of this George there was the following memorial remaining 1611, in Edensor Church.
Ednesor Church, Aug 27, 1611.
Orate pro aia Georgii Leeche Armigeri qui quidem Georgius obiit decimo die Mensis Martii Anno Dmi 1505 Cuius animae propicietur Deus Amen
Arms. Erm. a chief indented G. charged with 3 crowns O. impaling A. 13 torteauxes, 4, 3, 3, 2, 1, a label of three, B.
George Leche had issue by the above Anne,
Raph Leche, of Chatsworth, Esq. who by Elizabeth, daughter of Thomas Leake, of Haslald, (widow of John Hardwicke) had issue three daughters, his coheirs: Joan, wife of Thomas Kniveton, of Murcaston; Margaret, wife of Richard Slaughter, of Sutton, Co. Linc. and Eliz. [end of page]
[footnotes - note that the markings in the text to which these refer seems to have been omitted]
*Francs Leech, of Chatsworth, married a sister of the famous Countess of Shrewsbury, but had no issue by her.---Harl. MSS. 5809, fol. 74.
+Harl. MSS. 5809, fol. 82.
[p. 319]
wife of Sir Arthur Wingfield, of Suffolk, Gent. Usher to the Queen.
[end of Leech section]
If you want I can download the original and send it to you - contact me off-group.
taf
Robert O'Connor
Mar 26, 2017, 1:06:15 AM3/26/17
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Thank you very much Todd and Rosie for locating and providing the detail of this entry from 'The Topographer' for me - it is very much appreciated.
Unfortunately, the Topographer pedigree throws up more questions, as one might expect of a source dating from 1791, than it answers.
In particular, it says that Ralph [Robert?] Leche of Chatsworth (the father of Joan Leche, wife of Peter Pole) was the son of Sir Philip Leche "Treasurer of the Wars of France in 6 Hen V".
However, the 'History of Parliament' biography for this Sir Philip Leche, MP d 1420 says that he d.s.p leaving as his heirs his 4 sisters.
Also, Linda Clark in her ‘Identity & Insurgency in Late Middle Ages’ states that “He [Henry Booth] represented Derbyshire in four of the eight Parliaments that met between 1420 & 1427, & there can be no doubt that, on each occasion, he was motivated to secure return by a troublesome dispute arising out of his position as feofee & executor of his late patron, Sir Philip Leche (d 1420). Leche had instructed Booth to disinherit his four sisters in favour of his heir-male, Ralph Leche of Chatsworth; unsurprisingly, the sisters & their husbands did not embrace this scheme with enthusiasm”.
It therefore appears that the descent shown in 'The Topographer' is incorrect, and that Ralph Leche was the "heir-male" of Sir Philip Leche, MP d 1420, and not his son?
I have been looking online for evidence of the relationship, but unfortunately have found none.
Stirnet suggests that a possibility is that there were two Philip Leches, one the known Sir Philip, MP, d 1420 and the other his paternal uncle, and that Ralph was therefore, in fact, Sir Philip d 1420's first cousin? However, I am not sure that explanation works from a chronological point of view?
Does anyone know the connection between Sir Philip Leche, MP d 1420 and his "heir male" Ralph Leech, and indeed if that Ralph Leche was father of Joan Leche (M Peter Pole). I suspect that the Ralph father of Joan (M Pole) was, in fact, in a later generation?
Unfortunately, the Topographer pedigree throws up more questions, as one might expect of a source dating from 1791, than it answers.
In particular, it says that Ralph [Robert?] Leche of Chatsworth (the father of Joan Leche, wife of Peter Pole) was the son of Sir Philip Leche "Treasurer of the Wars of France in 6 Hen V".
However, the 'History of Parliament' biography for this Sir Philip Leche, MP d 1420 says that he d.s.p leaving as his heirs his 4 sisters.
Also, Linda Clark in her ‘Identity & Insurgency in Late Middle Ages’ states that “He [Henry Booth] represented Derbyshire in four of the eight Parliaments that met between 1420 & 1427, & there can be no doubt that, on each occasion, he was motivated to secure return by a troublesome dispute arising out of his position as feofee & executor of his late patron, Sir Philip Leche (d 1420). Leche had instructed Booth to disinherit his four sisters in favour of his heir-male, Ralph Leche of Chatsworth; unsurprisingly, the sisters & their husbands did not embrace this scheme with enthusiasm”.
It therefore appears that the descent shown in 'The Topographer' is incorrect, and that Ralph Leche was the "heir-male" of Sir Philip Leche, MP d 1420, and not his son?
I have been looking online for evidence of the relationship, but unfortunately have found none.
Stirnet suggests that a possibility is that there were two Philip Leches, one the known Sir Philip, MP, d 1420 and the other his paternal uncle, and that Ralph was therefore, in fact, Sir Philip d 1420's first cousin? However, I am not sure that explanation works from a chronological point of view?
Does anyone know the connection between Sir Philip Leche, MP d 1420 and his "heir male" Ralph Leech, and indeed if that Ralph Leche was father of Joan Leche (M Peter Pole). I suspect that the Ralph father of Joan (M Pole) was, in fact, in a later generation?
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