Hawaiian slang (fwd)
John Carmi Parsons
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 23:30:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Carmi Parsons <jpar...@chass.utoronto.ca>
To: "M. Stevens" <na...@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Hawaiian slang
Michael, I would never presume to claim that my spelling of Hawaiian is
perfect. Not that anybody's necessarily is; transliterating any language
into the alphabet of another language is tricky. The first English-speaking
sailors to reach Hawaii, for example, wrote the name of the then-reigning
king of the Islands as "Tom Himmy Haw." Today it's rendered Kamehameha, of
course.
I learned "papuli," as in the old irreverent song, "The Princess Papuli," but
you see, as a US Army brat I picked up such things around barracks, not by
formal instruction. In printed versions of that song, I have also seen the
word spelled "papooli." This all happened in the 1950s, furthermore, and I
would suggest, however tentatively, that perhaps by 1999 what sounded very much
unmistakably like "blalah" in the 1950s may have lost a syllable and become
"brah" under the influence of the Stateside "bro'."
John P.
On Tue, 13 Jul 1999, M. Stevens wrote:
> John,
>
> As a person of indigenous Hawai'ian lineage, I am of the opinion that
your Pidgin is broken <g>.
> "Pupule" is the Hawai'ian term for "crazy". not "papule", which is
meaningless. Also, most Hawai'ians who dote on Pidgin would probably prefer
"Brah", to "Blalah", which actually also has an even more 'archaic' spelling,
"Brudah".
>
> Michael Kealoha Stevens
> "Ina he ko'aloha kou, ho'o hemahema iaia"
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Carmi Parsons <jpar...@chass.utoronto.ca>
> To: GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com <GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com>
> Date: Monday, July 12, 1999 3:58 AM
> Subject: Re: Hawaiian slang
>
>
>
> I wrote: Spencer, blalah, you one papuli haole.
>
> blalah = pidgin Hawaiian for "brother." The most common form of address
> between males and sometimes even between females, and very often used by
> Anglo-Hawaiians as well as those of native Hawaiian descent.
>
> papuli = crazy.
>
> haole = white man. The word used by native Hawaiians to refer to English and
> American (yes, white-skinned) missionaries, and used to this day by those of
> Hawaiian descent to refer to those of Caucasian descent. I have heard
> Hawaiian residents of Caucasian descent use the word to refer to themselves.
>
> Pau ( = finished).
>
> John Parsons
>
>
> On Sun, 11 Jul 1999, D. Spencer Hines wrote:
>
> > Vide infra.
> >
> > This is certainly quite remarkable, but not surprising --- I suppose.
> >
> > John Carmi Parsons, professor of history at the University of Toronto,
> > frustrated --- I gather --- in some fundamental way, [didn't get that
> > promotion he'd hoped for, tenure, book contract, who knows?] has made
> > a very racist remark against the Caucasian "race".
> >
> > If he were to do this against African-Americans, Asians or Hispanics
> > he would be roundly condemned and ashamed of himself.
> >
> > But, as the Racist Remark is just directed against the Caucasian
> > "race" --- I suppose he'll get away with it --- and he knew that.
> >
> > He should be thoroughly ashamed of himself and apologize to the entire
> > membership here on soc.genealogy.medieval.
> >
> > Bad Show, Very Bad Show.
> >
> > And no, I don't translate _or transfer_ Racist Remarks.
> >
> > D. Spencer Hines
> >
> > Lux et Veritas
> > Fortem Posce Animum
> > --
> >
> > D. Spencer Hines --- "In line with all other Australian States and
> > with world-wide recognition of their vulnerability, the grey nurse and
> > great white sharks are totally protected in Queensland....The great
> > white shark is a scientifically 'mysterious' species as not much is
> > known about them. They have been under pressure from sport fishers
> > seeking trophies and from the commercial shark fishers." Department of
> > Primary Industries [DPI] Queensland, Australia
> >
> > [N. B. Therefore the Great White Shark is totally protected, but you
> > are not if one chooses to eat you. So be very careful not to injure
> > one or you'll wind up in the pokey, mate.]
> >
> > John Carmi Parsons <jpar...@chass.utoronto.ca> wrote in message
> > news:Pine.SGI.3.95.990711...@chass.utoronto.ca...
> >
> > > Spencer, blalah, you one papuli haole. JCP
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sun, 11 Jul 1999, D. Spencer Hines wrote:
> > >
> > > > Vide infra.
> > > >
> > > > Well, actually, John, I think we should give Charles II's wife a
> > pass
> > > > in this rather smarmy thread.
> > > >
> > > > Just the Monica Lewinskys --- for Charles II --- in this go-round.
> > > > I'm sure we've forgotten some.
> > > >
> > > > But, once again, you've missed the _bateau_.
> > > >
> > > > She is properly _Catarina Henriqueta de Portugal [1638-1705].
> > Please
> > > > keep Jeanne d'Arc in mind, if you find yourself forgetting the
> > > > multi-lingual conventions. <g>
> > > >
> > > > Catherine of Braganza is worth a mention as well, after her Real
> > Name.
> > > > <g>
> > > >
> > > > Chico, please jump in if I've got that wrong. You are the expert
> > on
> > > > things Portuguese.
> > > >
> > > > Now, John, even your dullest student should be able to learn this
> > _if
> > > > you raise your standards_. N'est-ce pas?
> > > >
> > > > Besides, you Canadians are supposed to be bi-lingual _de minimis_
> > > > aren't you? Don't let the side down, John.
> > > >
> > > > Try quinti-lingual, for starters.
> > > >
> > > > Aloha,
> > > >
> > > > D. Spencer Hines
> > > >
> > > > Lux et Veritas
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > D. Spencer Hines --- "In line with all other Australian States and
> > > > with world-wide recognition of their vulnerability, the grey nurse
> > and
> > > > great white sharks are totally protected in Queensland....The
> > great
> > > > white shark is a scientifically 'mysterious' species as not much
> > is
> > > > known about them. They have been under pressure from sport
> > fishers
> > > > seeking trophies and from the commercial shark fishers."
> > Department of
> > > > Primary Industries [DPI] Queensland, Australia
> > > >
> > > > [N. B. Therefore the Great White Shark is totally protected, but
> > you
> > > > are not if one chooses to eat you. So be very careful not to
> > injure
> > > > one or you'll wind up in the pokey, mate.]
> > > >
> > > > John Carmi Parsons <jpar...@chass.utoronto.ca> wrote in message
> > > > news:Pine.SGI.3.95.99071...@chass.utoronto.ca...
> > > >
> > > > > And take it did. I would have mentioned Lucy Walter but thought
> > she
> > > > was
> > > > > before 1660, the terminus post quem mentioned in the original
> > post.
> > > > And just to
> > > > > be fair, I suppose we ought to remember poor Catherine of
> > Braganza
> > > > too.
> > > > >
> > > > > John P.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sun, 11 Jul 1999, D. Spencer Hines wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Vide infra.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Multiple touches in those cases --- just to insure that the
> > cure
> > > > > > 'took', you understand.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And, don't forget Lucy Walter, Elizabeth Killigrew, and
> > Catherine
> > > > > > Pegge --- who also wore the Royal kneepads.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > D. Spencer Hines
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Lux et Veritas
> > > > > > --
> > > > > >
> > > > > > D. Spencer Hines --- "In line with all other Australian States
> > and
> > > > > > with world-wide recognition of their vulnerability, the grey
> > nurse
> > > > and
> > > > > > great white sharks are totally protected in Queensland....The
> > > > great
> > > > > > white shark is a scientifically 'mysterious' species as not
> > much
> > > > is
> > > > > > known about them. They have been under pressure from sport
> > > > fishers
> > > > > > seeking trophies and from the commercial shark fishers."
> > > > Department of
> > > > > > Primary Industries [DPI] Queensland, Australia
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [N. B. Therefore the Great White Shark is totally protected,
> > but
> > > > you
> > > > > > are not if one chooses to eat you. So be very careful not to
> > > > injure
> > > > > > one or you'll wind up in the pokey, mate.]
> > > > > >
> > > > > > John Carmi Parsons <jpar...@chass.utoronto.ca> wrote in
> > message
> > > > > >
> > news:Pine.SGI.3.95.99071...@chass.utoronto.ca...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Would this number include Nell Gwyn, Barbara Villiers,
> > Louise de
> > > > > > Penancoet de
> > > > > > > Keroualle and Moll Davies?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > John P.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Sun, 11 Jul 1999, Adrian Channing wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Useless fact of the day:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Between 1660 and 1682 Charles II of England touched 92,107
> > > > people.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > (DNB, under John Browne 1642-1700?)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
> ple.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > (DNB, under John Browne 1642-1700?)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >=20
> >=20
>
>
Chris Pitt Lewis
John Carmi Parsons <jpar...@chass.utoronto.ca> writes
>
>
>
>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 23:30:46 -0400 (EDT)
>From: John Carmi Parsons <jpar...@chass.utoronto.ca>
>To: "M. Stevens" <na...@email.msn.com>
>Subject: Re: Hawaiian slang
>
>Michael, I would never presume to claim that my spelling of Hawaiian is
>perfect. Not that anybody's necessarily is; transliterating any language
>into the alphabet of another language is tricky. The first English-speaking
>sailors to reach Hawaii, for example, wrote the name of the then-reigning
>king of the Islands as "Tom Himmy Haw." Today it's rendered Kamehameha, of
>course.
>
As a matter of interest (apologies for adding to off topic thread, but
vaguely connected with royal genealogy), how *does* one pronounce
Kamehameha? In other words, where does one put the stress? Is it
KAMeHAMeha, KaMEhaMEha, or what? And are the vowels short or long?
--
Chris Pitt Lewis
John Carmi Parsons
shortened--"meh" is perhaps a somewhat more accurate rendering.
John P.
Nathaniel Taylor
jpar...@chass.utoronto.ca (John Carmi Parsons) wrote:
>On Wed, 14 Jul 1999, Chris Pitt Lewis wrote:
>
>> As a matter of interest (apologies for adding to off topic thread, but
>> vaguely connected with royal genealogy), how *does* one pronounce
>> Kamehameha? In other words, where does one put the stress? Is it
>> KAMeHAMeha, KaMEhaMEha, or what? And are the vowels short or long?
>
>I have always heard KaMAYhaMAYha, though the "may" should I think be rather
>shortened--"meh" is perhaps a somewhat more accurate rendering.
At the risk of being branded as racist, tasteless, and off-topic, I should
note there's also "Chief Kamanawanaleha" of the old song (which I saw on a
Sha-Na-Na album, although nothing is original with them), "I'm Chief
Kamanawanaleha, and we're the royal Macadamia nuts". That's pronounced
'Come-on-I-wanna-lay-ya'. The song's existence lends credence to JCP's
pronunciation, with which it rhymes...
Nat Taylor
M. Stevens
Correct pronunciation of the name "Kamehameha" is, in fact "Kah-MAY-hah-MAY-ha", although it may sometimes appear to sound like "KAH-may-HA-may-HA" when said quickly by a native speaker.
Hawai'ian pronunciation is extremely consistent...every letter is pronounced exactly the same in every instance. There are glottal stops and aspirants that shade the accented syllables sometimes, but since many words, and most names, are derived from connected smaller words...it is helpful to know where one word stops and the next begins. Emphasis is generally made on the first syllable of a word, but not always. Vowels are pronounced exactly the same as in most European languages A=ah E=ay I=ee O=oh U=ooh.
Michael Kealoha (kea=stone loha=small) Stevens
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Pitt Lewis <ch...@cjpl.demon.co.uk>
To: GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com <GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com>
Date: Wednesday, July 14, 1999 3:01 PM
Subject: Re: Hawaiian slang (fwd)
In article <Pine.SGI.3.95.990713...@chass.utoronto.ca>,
John Carmi Parsons <jpar...@chass.utoronto.ca> writes
>
>
>
>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 23:30:46 -0400 (EDT)
>From: John Carmi Parsons <jpar...@chass.utoronto.ca>
>To: "M. Stevens" <na...@email.msn.com>
>Subject: Re: Hawaiian slang
>
>Michael, I would never presume to claim that my spelling of Hawaiian is
>perfect. Not that anybody's necessarily is; transliterating any language
>into the alphabet of another language is tricky. The first English-speaking
>sailors to reach Hawaii, for example, wrote the name of the then-reigning
>king of the Islands as "Tom Himmy Haw." Today it's rendered Kamehameha, of
>course.
>
As a matter of interest (apologies for adding to off topic thread, but
vaguely connected with royal genealogy), how *does* one pronounce
Kamehameha? In other words, where does one put the stress? Is it
KAMeHAMeha, KaMEhaMEha, or what? And are the vowels short or long?
--
Chris Pitt Lewis
are the vowels short or long?
--=20
Chris Pitt Lewis