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RE: IPM of Lionel Goodrick of East Kirby, 1561
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Tompkins, Matthew (Dr.)
Jan 28, 2017, 9:09:56 AM1/28/17
to gen-me...@rootsweb.com
From: Jordan Vandenberg [jordanva...@hotmail.com]
Sent: 26 January 2017 21:32
> Hello,
> Does anyone know if the Inquisition Post Mortem for Lionel Goodrick taken 3rd Elizabeth (no. 134) is available to view or transcribed online somewhere?
> Any feedback on where to find it would be appreciated.
> Thanks.
> Jordan.
>
-----------------------------------------------------
I don't believe this IPM is accessible anywhere online, but last year Ken Rolston photographed the Chancery text at TNA, C 142/130/134, and I produced an abstract from the photograph. The document is not in good condition - there are a couple of holes, and parts are worn and faded - but much of it could be made out. The results are below.
Matt Tompkins
LYON GODRYK.
[Writ dce, not seen].
LINCOLNSHIRE. Inquisition indented. [place illegible]. [date illeg]. [escheator illeg].
Jurors: [named (added after, in different hand)]
He was seised in his demesne as of fee of:
- 2 messuages, ?2 cottages, ?100 a. land, 20 a. meadow, 20 a. pasture and 12d. rent in Enderby Mavys;
- 2 messuages, 1 cottage, 20 a. land, … meadow, … pasture and 2d. rent in Halton iuxta Spyllesby;
- 1 messuage, 1 cottage, 10 a. land, 60 a. pasture and a several fishery, 9s. 10d. rent in Waynflett All Saints and Waynflett St Mary;
- … a. (?plombs acris) pasture and marsh in Thorpe iuxta Waynflett; and
- 2 messuages, 1 cottage, 30 a. ?land, ?3 a. meadow, … a. pasture in Wythern.
So seised, by his indented writing dated 12 May, 3 & 4 Phillip & Mary [1557], shown to the jury, he granted all his lands and tenements etc in these places to William Sapcote of the Close of Lincoln, clerk, Kenelm Watson of ?Glatton, Hunts, gent., James Walys, merchant of the town Stapule Caleys, Edward Sapcote of Cungate …, Jerome Sapcote of the city of Lincoln, gent., and Martin Hollingworth, ?citizen and draper of the same city, to the use of Winifred Godryk, then his wife, and after her death to the use of himself and after his death to the use of the heirs of the body of ?[Lyon] lawfully begotten ?[on Winifred], remainder to the use of Lyon and his heirs; by virtue of which the six were seised in their demesne as of fee to those uses; and Lyon and Winifred in right of Winifred [sic] by operation of the Statute of Uses were seised in their demesne as of free tenement for the life of Winifred as in her right [sic], remainder to Lyon and the heirs of his body lawfully begotten on the body of Winifred, remainder to Lyon and his heirs.
Afterwards Lyon died at Estkyrkby in Lincs., seised as above, and Winifred survived him and still lives, residing at Estkyrkby, and from his death has held the above tenements in her demesne as of free tenement for her life, remainder to Lyon’s heirs lawfully begotten on her body, remainder to Lyon’s right heirs.
He was also seised at his death in his demesne as of fee of:
- 12 messuages, 14 cottages, 1 dovecote, 200 a. land, 40 a. meadow, ?30 a. pasture and 2 ½ d. rent in Estkyrkby iuxta Bolyngbroke; and
- 4 a. land, 4 a. meadow and 6d. rent in Marum iuxta Revesby
- the manor of Stykney and 14 ?mco’, 14 cottages, 40 a. land, 30 a. meadow, 60 a. pasture, ??100 a. waste marsh (marisc’ frisc’) and 20s. rent in Stykney
- 11 a. pasture and marsh in Fryskney
- 2 messuages, 13 a. land, 9 a. meadow, 8 a. pasture and 3d. rent in Esterkele and Westerkele
- a yearly rent of ?[40s. 8d.] issuing from … held … Richard ?Welly \of W…/, esq., in Farlesthorp, Anderby and Hotoft in Marisco
- a yearly rent of 1 lb pepper and 1 lb cumin in Coynyngesby
- a yearly rent of 2s. issuing from lands and tenements of Roger Watson in Stykforth.
So seised, by his indented writing, shown to the jury, he granted all his tenements, rents and other premises in Estkyrkby, Marum, Stykney, Fryskney, Esterkele, Westerkele, Farlesthorp, Anderby, Hotoft and Stykney [Coningsby is not mentioned] to William Towers, his ?servant, for his good and faithful service ?[and] 20s. p.a. rent issuing from his lands and tenements in Stykney then in the tenure of the same Roger Watson, for his life, paying … yearly at Michaelmas, with power for Towers to distrain in Watson’s lands for arrears of the 20s. rent
He made his last will, dated 15 Dec 156[?0], shown to the jurors, saying inter alia:
“Item, I will that my wyffe Wenefryde have my mans?[ion house Estk]yrkby with all ?on my howses therunto belonging with all orchardes and gardens ?medows pastures and arrable ground with all ?maner of commyn profettes and commodyties with their appertenaunces therto belonging and … ample … as I the said Lyon do at this present day occupy the same for the term of ?twenty and ?one yeres next ensuyng the date herof payng … … for the same as herafter followeth: fyrst my mansion house with all … … dovcotes orchardes and garthes therunto belonging 13s. 4d. Item, for every acre of pasture 2s. 6d., for every acre moor ground ?12d., for every acre of arrable ground 6d., to be payd yerly to … … to the use and profett … of this my last will and testament.
Item I giffe to [left blank] her lyff to be paid yerly at Michelmes 5s.
Item I gif to ?Bartilmas … … his lyff to be payd at Michelmes 20s.
Item I giff to Grace Collyn my seruaunt duryng her lyff to be paid at Michelmes 4s.
Item I giff to William Buk my seruaunt 6s. … … … to a graunt made unto him.
Item I giff and bequeth to Anne my dowghter … … poundes to be paid at the day of her mariage so that she do not dye before she accomplysshe the age of 18 yere … some of ?£200
and all of my legaces dettes and charges I ?leve shall be levyed … … of alll my landes in Stykney also my ?mynde and will is that if my seid dowghter Anne do not mary then I will that ?she …. her seid legacy of … … she shall accomplyssh the age of xx- yeres”
He died on 29 Aug 1561. Edward Godrik is, and at the time of his death was, both his son and next heir and also his son and the heir of his body lawfully begotten on the body of Winifred, who at the date of the inquisition is within the age of 21 years, viz aged ?4 years and … months.
The 2 messuages, rents and other premises in Enderby Mavys at the time of his death were held of John Carsle, esq., as of his manor of Revesby in socage by fealty and ?12s. yearly rent, and are worth £.. 16s. 1d.
The 2 messuages, rents and other premises in Halton iuxta Spyllesby at the time of his death were held of the queen as of her honour and manor of Bolyngbroke as of the duchy of Lancaster by ?rent of … s., and are worth £10 16s. 3d.
The messuage, fishery, rents and other premises in Waynflett … and Waynflett St Mary at the time of his death were held of the queen as of her manor of Waynflett as of the duchy of Lancaster in free socage and by rent … …, and are worth …
The … and marsh in Thorpe iuxta Waynflett at the time of his death were held of the queen as of her manor of Thorpe, parcel of the late [?monastery] … … by socage and rent of ?4s. 6d. yearly, worth …
The 2 messuages and other premises in Wythern at the time of his death were held of ??Edward ?Dymoke, ?knt, as of his manor of … … … by rent of ?12s. yearly, worth …
The 12 messuages, rents and other premises in Estkyrkby at the time of his death were held of … …, esq., ?[and … his wife] … his … of Eresby in socage by fealty and 6s. 2½d. yearly rent, worth ?£2.. .
The lands … … … … at the time of his death were held of John Carsley, esq., as of his manor of ?Revesby in … and by rent of ?2s. 6d. yearly, worth 20s.
The manor of Stykney and the lands, tenements, rents and other premises in Stykney … … … … … as of his manor of Bolyngbroke by knight service … … … ?£11.
The 40 a. pasture and other premises in Fryskney at the time of his death were held of … Kyme, esq., as of his manor of Fryskney … … …, worth £3 6s. 8d.
… … … … Esterkele and Westerkele at the time of his death were held of the queen as of her manor of ?Hareby, parcel of the possessions of the late ?monastery of Bardney by ?1d. rent yearly, worth 8s. 10d.
The ?residue of the premises … Westerkele … were held of John Carsly, esq., … … in socage …, worth …
[The last 2 ½ lines are illegible]
[Margin:] Transcript sent to Courts of Wards and Exchequer by Halley
[… … (illegible)]
C 142/130/134
Sent: 26 January 2017 21:32
> Hello,
> Does anyone know if the Inquisition Post Mortem for Lionel Goodrick taken 3rd Elizabeth (no. 134) is available to view or transcribed online somewhere?
> Any feedback on where to find it would be appreciated.
> Thanks.
> Jordan.
>
-----------------------------------------------------
I don't believe this IPM is accessible anywhere online, but last year Ken Rolston photographed the Chancery text at TNA, C 142/130/134, and I produced an abstract from the photograph. The document is not in good condition - there are a couple of holes, and parts are worn and faded - but much of it could be made out. The results are below.
Matt Tompkins
LYON GODRYK.
[Writ dce, not seen].
LINCOLNSHIRE. Inquisition indented. [place illegible]. [date illeg]. [escheator illeg].
Jurors: [named (added after, in different hand)]
He was seised in his demesne as of fee of:
- 2 messuages, ?2 cottages, ?100 a. land, 20 a. meadow, 20 a. pasture and 12d. rent in Enderby Mavys;
- 2 messuages, 1 cottage, 20 a. land, … meadow, … pasture and 2d. rent in Halton iuxta Spyllesby;
- 1 messuage, 1 cottage, 10 a. land, 60 a. pasture and a several fishery, 9s. 10d. rent in Waynflett All Saints and Waynflett St Mary;
- … a. (?plombs acris) pasture and marsh in Thorpe iuxta Waynflett; and
- 2 messuages, 1 cottage, 30 a. ?land, ?3 a. meadow, … a. pasture in Wythern.
So seised, by his indented writing dated 12 May, 3 & 4 Phillip & Mary [1557], shown to the jury, he granted all his lands and tenements etc in these places to William Sapcote of the Close of Lincoln, clerk, Kenelm Watson of ?Glatton, Hunts, gent., James Walys, merchant of the town Stapule Caleys, Edward Sapcote of Cungate …, Jerome Sapcote of the city of Lincoln, gent., and Martin Hollingworth, ?citizen and draper of the same city, to the use of Winifred Godryk, then his wife, and after her death to the use of himself and after his death to the use of the heirs of the body of ?[Lyon] lawfully begotten ?[on Winifred], remainder to the use of Lyon and his heirs; by virtue of which the six were seised in their demesne as of fee to those uses; and Lyon and Winifred in right of Winifred [sic] by operation of the Statute of Uses were seised in their demesne as of free tenement for the life of Winifred as in her right [sic], remainder to Lyon and the heirs of his body lawfully begotten on the body of Winifred, remainder to Lyon and his heirs.
Afterwards Lyon died at Estkyrkby in Lincs., seised as above, and Winifred survived him and still lives, residing at Estkyrkby, and from his death has held the above tenements in her demesne as of free tenement for her life, remainder to Lyon’s heirs lawfully begotten on her body, remainder to Lyon’s right heirs.
He was also seised at his death in his demesne as of fee of:
- 12 messuages, 14 cottages, 1 dovecote, 200 a. land, 40 a. meadow, ?30 a. pasture and 2 ½ d. rent in Estkyrkby iuxta Bolyngbroke; and
- 4 a. land, 4 a. meadow and 6d. rent in Marum iuxta Revesby
- the manor of Stykney and 14 ?mco’, 14 cottages, 40 a. land, 30 a. meadow, 60 a. pasture, ??100 a. waste marsh (marisc’ frisc’) and 20s. rent in Stykney
- 11 a. pasture and marsh in Fryskney
- 2 messuages, 13 a. land, 9 a. meadow, 8 a. pasture and 3d. rent in Esterkele and Westerkele
- a yearly rent of ?[40s. 8d.] issuing from … held … Richard ?Welly \of W…/, esq., in Farlesthorp, Anderby and Hotoft in Marisco
- a yearly rent of 1 lb pepper and 1 lb cumin in Coynyngesby
- a yearly rent of 2s. issuing from lands and tenements of Roger Watson in Stykforth.
So seised, by his indented writing, shown to the jury, he granted all his tenements, rents and other premises in Estkyrkby, Marum, Stykney, Fryskney, Esterkele, Westerkele, Farlesthorp, Anderby, Hotoft and Stykney [Coningsby is not mentioned] to William Towers, his ?servant, for his good and faithful service ?[and] 20s. p.a. rent issuing from his lands and tenements in Stykney then in the tenure of the same Roger Watson, for his life, paying … yearly at Michaelmas, with power for Towers to distrain in Watson’s lands for arrears of the 20s. rent
He made his last will, dated 15 Dec 156[?0], shown to the jurors, saying inter alia:
“Item, I will that my wyffe Wenefryde have my mans?[ion house Estk]yrkby with all ?on my howses therunto belonging with all orchardes and gardens ?medows pastures and arrable ground with all ?maner of commyn profettes and commodyties with their appertenaunces therto belonging and … ample … as I the said Lyon do at this present day occupy the same for the term of ?twenty and ?one yeres next ensuyng the date herof payng … … for the same as herafter followeth: fyrst my mansion house with all … … dovcotes orchardes and garthes therunto belonging 13s. 4d. Item, for every acre of pasture 2s. 6d., for every acre moor ground ?12d., for every acre of arrable ground 6d., to be payd yerly to … … to the use and profett … of this my last will and testament.
Item I giffe to [left blank] her lyff to be paid yerly at Michelmes 5s.
Item I gif to ?Bartilmas … … his lyff to be payd at Michelmes 20s.
Item I giff to Grace Collyn my seruaunt duryng her lyff to be paid at Michelmes 4s.
Item I giff to William Buk my seruaunt 6s. … … … to a graunt made unto him.
Item I giff and bequeth to Anne my dowghter … … poundes to be paid at the day of her mariage so that she do not dye before she accomplysshe the age of 18 yere … some of ?£200
and all of my legaces dettes and charges I ?leve shall be levyed … … of alll my landes in Stykney also my ?mynde and will is that if my seid dowghter Anne do not mary then I will that ?she …. her seid legacy of … … she shall accomplyssh the age of xx- yeres”
He died on 29 Aug 1561. Edward Godrik is, and at the time of his death was, both his son and next heir and also his son and the heir of his body lawfully begotten on the body of Winifred, who at the date of the inquisition is within the age of 21 years, viz aged ?4 years and … months.
The 2 messuages, rents and other premises in Enderby Mavys at the time of his death were held of John Carsle, esq., as of his manor of Revesby in socage by fealty and ?12s. yearly rent, and are worth £.. 16s. 1d.
The 2 messuages, rents and other premises in Halton iuxta Spyllesby at the time of his death were held of the queen as of her honour and manor of Bolyngbroke as of the duchy of Lancaster by ?rent of … s., and are worth £10 16s. 3d.
The messuage, fishery, rents and other premises in Waynflett … and Waynflett St Mary at the time of his death were held of the queen as of her manor of Waynflett as of the duchy of Lancaster in free socage and by rent … …, and are worth …
The … and marsh in Thorpe iuxta Waynflett at the time of his death were held of the queen as of her manor of Thorpe, parcel of the late [?monastery] … … by socage and rent of ?4s. 6d. yearly, worth …
The 2 messuages and other premises in Wythern at the time of his death were held of ??Edward ?Dymoke, ?knt, as of his manor of … … … by rent of ?12s. yearly, worth …
The 12 messuages, rents and other premises in Estkyrkby at the time of his death were held of … …, esq., ?[and … his wife] … his … of Eresby in socage by fealty and 6s. 2½d. yearly rent, worth ?£2.. .
The lands … … … … at the time of his death were held of John Carsley, esq., as of his manor of ?Revesby in … and by rent of ?2s. 6d. yearly, worth 20s.
The manor of Stykney and the lands, tenements, rents and other premises in Stykney … … … … … as of his manor of Bolyngbroke by knight service … … … ?£11.
The 40 a. pasture and other premises in Fryskney at the time of his death were held of … Kyme, esq., as of his manor of Fryskney … … …, worth £3 6s. 8d.
… … … … Esterkele and Westerkele at the time of his death were held of the queen as of her manor of ?Hareby, parcel of the possessions of the late ?monastery of Bardney by ?1d. rent yearly, worth 8s. 10d.
The ?residue of the premises … Westerkele … were held of John Carsly, esq., … … in socage …, worth …
[The last 2 ½ lines are illegible]
[Margin:] Transcript sent to Courts of Wards and Exchequer by Halley
[… … (illegible)]
C 142/130/134
Jordan Vandenberg
Jan 28, 2017, 11:44:35 AM1/28/17
to
Matt,
Thank you so much for taking the time to transcribe the image. That was very kind of you.
It seems to shed some light on the identity of the mother of his children, if I am reading it correctly.
Am I correct in my interpretation that where it states: "and the heirs of his body lawfully begotten on the body of Winifred (her)," it is specifically stating that she is the woman that gave birth to his children?
Who is stating this? Is it Lionel Goodrick before he died, or the person doing the IPM?
The fact that it says heirs (plural), I can it can be assumed that both Edward and Anne were born of her.
I am assuming the question mark next to the 4 in reference to Edward's age is a 1 meaning the he would be 14 years old at the time of his father's death (since he was not yet 21 and he was alive when Nicholas Robertson/Robinson died in 1552). That would place his birth at around 1547. If Winifred is his mother that would place Lionel Goodrick's marriage to her before 1547.
If Winifred is his mother, would it be unusual that Nicholas Robertson/Robinson included him in his will and referred to him in a way that one may refer to a grandson?
Thank you so much for taking the time to transcribe the image. That was very kind of you.
It seems to shed some light on the identity of the mother of his children, if I am reading it correctly.
Am I correct in my interpretation that where it states: "and the heirs of his body lawfully begotten on the body of Winifred (her)," it is specifically stating that she is the woman that gave birth to his children?
Who is stating this? Is it Lionel Goodrick before he died, or the person doing the IPM?
The fact that it says heirs (plural), I can it can be assumed that both Edward and Anne were born of her.
I am assuming the question mark next to the 4 in reference to Edward's age is a 1 meaning the he would be 14 years old at the time of his father's death (since he was not yet 21 and he was alive when Nicholas Robertson/Robinson died in 1552). That would place his birth at around 1547. If Winifred is his mother that would place Lionel Goodrick's marriage to her before 1547.
If Winifred is his mother, would it be unusual that Nicholas Robertson/Robinson included him in his will and referred to him in a way that one may refer to a grandson?
joe...@gmail.com
Jan 28, 2017, 11:52:49 AM1/28/17
to
On Saturday, January 28, 2017 at 9:09:56 AM UTC-5, Tompkins, Matthew (Dr.) wrote:
> From: Jordan Vandenberg []
> Sent: 26 January 2017 21:32
> > Hello,
> > Does anyone know if the Inquisition Post Mortem for Lionel Goodrick taken 3rd Elizabeth (no. 134) is available to view or transcribed online somewhere?
> > Any feedback on where to find it would be appreciated.
> > Thanks.
> > Jordan.
> >
> -----------------------------------------------------
> I don't believe this IPM is accessible anywhere online, but last year Ken Rolston photographed the Chancery text at TNA, C 142/130/134, and I produced an abstract from the photograph. The document is not in good condition - there are a couple of holes, and parts are worn and faded - but much of it could be made out. The results are below.
>
> Matt Tompkins
>
>
> LYON GODRYK.
>
> [Writ dce, not seen].
>
<snip>
> > Hello,
> > Does anyone know if the Inquisition Post Mortem for Lionel Goodrick taken 3rd Elizabeth (no. 134) is available to view or transcribed online somewhere?
> > Any feedback on where to find it would be appreciated.
> > Thanks.
> > Jordan.
> >
> -----------------------------------------------------
> I don't believe this IPM is accessible anywhere online, but last year Ken Rolston photographed the Chancery text at TNA, C 142/130/134, and I produced an abstract from the photograph. The document is not in good condition - there are a couple of holes, and parts are worn and faded - but much of it could be made out. The results are below.
>
> Matt Tompkins
>
>
> LYON GODRYK.
>
> [Writ dce, not seen].
>
Thank you greatly for this. It seems then a chronology based on the available records is:
Before 1553: daughter of Nicholas Robinson is deceased, and Lionel is married to Winnifred Sapcote.
March 27, 1552: Nicholas Robinson mentions his "good son and nephew"(possibly grandson) Edward Goodrick in his will as a minor. His daughter, possible mother of Edward, is unmentioned and probably deceased.
Dec 15, 1560? : Date of Lionel Goodrick's will where he states that his daughter Anne being under the age of 18.
Aug 29, 1561: Lionel Goodrick's date of death according to his ipm which also states that Edward Goodrick is his heir "lawfully begotton on the body of Winnifred" which seems to be a possible error.
May 12 1562: Richard Goodrick in an addendum to his will, identifies himself as the current guardian of Edward and sister Anne Goodrick in his will. This puts Edward's birth sometime between May 1541 and Mar 1552. And Anne's birth between May 1544 and Mar 1552.
Sept 1, 1568: Winnifred's next husband Humphrey Littlebury makes his will where he states that he owes money to "Edward Goodrick, (Winifred's) son", and mentions that the will of Lionel Goodricke left bequests to Winnifred and her son Edward. If Edward is old enough to be owed money at this date, this probably further narrows his birthdate to sometime between May 1541 and Sept 1547. Perhaps his age at his fathers ipm was "14?"
Visitation of Lincolnshire 1562-64 which clearly includes post 1564 information in the Goodrick pedigree. Assigns the parents of Anne and Edward to ? Robinson, despite the many mentions of Edward as a son of Winnifred above. Edward has married the daughter of his guardian Richard Goodrick, named Elizabeth. Elizabeth is the 2nd cousin, once removed of Edward. Edward is apparently the informant of the pedigree as all of his, and only his children are enumerated in full. Edward names one of his children Winnifred. Anne names two of her children Winnifred.
joe...@gmail.com
Jan 28, 2017, 11:55:42 AM1/28/17
to
On Saturday, January 28, 2017 at 9:09:56 AM UTC-5, Tompkins, Matthew (Dr.) wrote:
> From: Jordan Vandenberg [jordacom]
> Sent: 26 January 2017 21:32
> > Hello,
> > Does anyone know if the Inquisition Post Mortem for Lionel Goodrick taken 3rd Elizabeth (no. 134) is available to view or transcribed online somewhere?
> > Any feedback on where to find it would be appreciated.
> > Thanks.
> > Jordan.
> >
> -----------------------------------------------------
> I don't believe this IPM is accessible anywhere online, but last year Ken Rolston photographed the Chancery text at TNA, C 142/130/134, and I produced an abstract from the photograph. The document is not in good condition - there are a couple of holes, and parts are worn and faded - but much of it could be made out. The results are below.
>
> Matt Tompkins
>
>
> LYON GODRYK.
<snip>
> > Hello,
> > Does anyone know if the Inquisition Post Mortem for Lionel Goodrick taken 3rd Elizabeth (no. 134) is available to view or transcribed online somewhere?
> > Any feedback on where to find it would be appreciated.
> > Thanks.
> > Jordan.
> >
> -----------------------------------------------------
> I don't believe this IPM is accessible anywhere online, but last year Ken Rolston photographed the Chancery text at TNA, C 142/130/134, and I produced an abstract from the photograph. The document is not in good condition - there are a couple of holes, and parts are worn and faded - but much of it could be made out. The results are below.
>
> Matt Tompkins
>
>
> LYON GODRYK.
Resending with correction:
<snip>
Thank you greatly for this. It seems then a chronology based on the available records is:
Before 1553: daughter of Nicholas Robinson is deceased, and Lionel is married to Winnifred Sapcote.
March 27, 1552: Nicholas Robinson mentions his "good son and nephew"(possibly grandson) Edward Goodrick in his will as a minor. His daughter, possible mother of Edward, is unmentioned and probably deceased.
Dec 15, 1560? : Date of Lionel Goodrick's will where he states that his daughter Anne being under the age of 18.
May 12 1562: Richard Goodrick in an addendum to his will, identifies himself as the current guardian of Edward and sister Anne Goodrick in his will. This puts Edward's birth sometime between May 1541 and Mar 1552. And Anne's birth between May 1544 and Mar 1552.
joe...@gmail.com
Jan 28, 2017, 11:58:42 AM1/28/17
to
On Saturday, January 28, 2017 at 11:44:35 AM UTC-5, Jordan Vandenberg wrote:
> Matt,
> Thank you so much for taking the time to transcribe the image. That was very kind of you.
>
> It seems to shed some light on the identity of the mother of his children, if I am reading it correctly.
>
> Am I correct in my interpretation that where it states: "and the heirs of his body lawfully begotten on the body of Winifred (her)," it is specifically stating that she is the woman that gave birth to his children?
>
> Who is stating this? Is it Lionel Goodrick before he died, or the person doing the IPM?
>
> The fact that it says heirs (plural), I can it can be assumed that both Edward and Anne were born of her.
>
> I am assuming the question mark next to the 4 in reference to Edward's age is a 1 meaning the he would be 14 years old at the time of his father's death (since he was not yet 21 and he was alive when Nicholas Robertson/Robinson died in 1552). That would place his birth at around 1547. If Winifred is his mother that would place Lionel Goodrick's marriage to her before 1547.
>
> If Winifred is his mother, would it be unusual that Nicholas Robertson/Robinson included him in his will and referred to him in a way that one may refer to a grandson?
?4 just means the 4 is not totally clear, not that there are two characters.
> Matt,
> Thank you so much for taking the time to transcribe the image. That was very kind of you.
>
> It seems to shed some light on the identity of the mother of his children, if I am reading it correctly.
>
> Am I correct in my interpretation that where it states: "and the heirs of his body lawfully begotten on the body of Winifred (her)," it is specifically stating that she is the woman that gave birth to his children?
>
> Who is stating this? Is it Lionel Goodrick before he died, or the person doing the IPM?
>
> The fact that it says heirs (plural), I can it can be assumed that both Edward and Anne were born of her.
>
> I am assuming the question mark next to the 4 in reference to Edward's age is a 1 meaning the he would be 14 years old at the time of his father's death (since he was not yet 21 and he was alive when Nicholas Robertson/Robinson died in 1552). That would place his birth at around 1547. If Winifred is his mother that would place Lionel Goodrick's marriage to her before 1547.
>
> If Winifred is his mother, would it be unusual that Nicholas Robertson/Robinson included him in his will and referred to him in a way that one may refer to a grandson?
"heirs begotten" is just the standardize, and no conclusion should be drawn that there were in fact multiple known heirs.
taf
Jan 28, 2017, 12:40:46 PM1/28/17
to
On Saturday, January 28, 2017 at 8:44:35 AM UTC-8, Jordan Vandenberg wrote:
> Am I correct in my interpretation that where it states: "and the heirs of his
> body lawfully begotten on the body of Winifred (her)," it is specifically
> stating that she is the woman that gave birth to his children?
Not exactly, it is just stating that the land was to go to any such children that might come to exist. However, the part below that states that 'Edward Godrik is . . . both his son and next heir and also his son and the heir of his body lawfully begotten on the body of Winifred" does indeed indicate that Edward was born to Winifred, and the fact that she was later his widow indicates that any children younger than Edward would likewise have been born to her.
> Am I correct in my interpretation that where it states: "and the heirs of his
> body lawfully begotten on the body of Winifred (her)," it is specifically
> stating that she is the woman that gave birth to his children?
> Who is stating this? Is it Lionel Goodrick before he died, or the person doing
> the IPM?
> The fact that it says heirs (plural), I can it can be assumed that both Edward
> and Anne were born of her.
taf
joe...@gmail.com
Jan 28, 2017, 12:48:46 PM1/28/17
to
Jordan Vandenberg
Jan 28, 2017, 12:54:56 PM1/28/17
to
Edward married Richard's daughter Elizabeth (2nd cousin), Richard's daughter.
Perhaps there was a promise of marriage before Lionel Goodrick passed away between he and Richard that their children would marry? Would that constitute the guardianship?
Perhaps there was a promise of marriage before Lionel Goodrick passed away between he and Richard that their children would marry? Would that constitute the guardianship?
taf
Jan 28, 2017, 1:52:01 PM1/28/17
to
On Saturday, January 28, 2017 at 12:48:46 PM UTC-5, joe...@gmail.com wrote:
> Everything seems to fit except for the reason "wardship and marriage
> of Edward Goodrike, son and heir of Lyon" would be passed of to
> someone (cousin Richard Goodrick) in London if Winnifred, the
> mother, were still alive.
Winifred's survival is irrelevant. If the minor held in chief (or if he held of a minor who himself held in chief, or held of a minor who held of a minor . . . ) then guardianship was controlled by the king and could be granted to anyone, as royal patronage or simply by purchase. The widow had no say in this.
> Everything seems to fit except for the reason "wardship and marriage
> of Edward Goodrike, son and heir of Lyon" would be passed of to
> someone (cousin Richard Goodrick) in London if Winnifred, the
> mother, were still alive.
On Saturday, January 28, 2017 at 9:54:56 AM UTC-8, Jordan Vandenberg wrote:
> Edward married Richard's daughter Elizabeth (2nd cousin), Richard's
> daughter. Perhaps there was a promise of marriage before Lionel
> Goodrick passed away between he and Richard that their children
> would marry? Would that constitute the guardianship?
taf
joe...@gmail.com
Jan 28, 2017, 2:05:05 PM1/28/17
to
and if this directly implies that he had a two year old child at the time of his will writing that he would designate "19" years to bring up his children. It seems to me a very odd way to write a will. usually they are written to be correct no matter how far in the future the will may go into effect.
Tompkins, Matthew (Dr.)
Jan 28, 2017, 2:34:57 PM1/28/17
to gen-me...@rootsweb.com
On Saturday, January 28, 2017 at 11:44:35 AM UTC-5, Jordan Vandenberg wrote:
<snip>>
>> I am assuming the question mark next to the 4 in reference to Edward's age is a 1 meaning the he would be 14 years old at the time of his father's death (since he was not yet 21 and he was alive when Nicholas Robertson/Robinson died in 1552). That would place his birth at around 1547. If Winifred is his mother that would place Lionel Goodrick's marriage to her before 1547.
>>
-------------------------------
>>
From: joe...@gmail.com [joe...@gmail.com]
Sent: 28 January 2017 16:58
> ?4 just means the 4 is not totally clear, not that there are two characters.
>
-------------------------------
>
I'm fairly sure he was aged just 4. In the original it's written as a word not a number, and although I can't make it all out clearly, it looks more like 'quatuor' than any other number under 21.
Matt
joe...@gmail.com
Jan 28, 2017, 4:04:15 PM1/28/17
to
On Saturday, January 28, 2017 at 2:34:57 PM UTC-5, Tompkins, Matthew (Dr.) wrote:
> On Saturday, January 28, 2017 at 11:44:35 AM UTC-5, Jordan Vandenberg wrote:
> <snip>>
> >> I am assuming the question mark next to the 4 in reference to Edward's age is a 1 meaning the he would be 14 years old at the time of his father's death (since he was not yet 21 and he was alive when Nicholas Robertson/Robinson died in 1552). That would place his birth at around 1547. If Winifred is his mother that would place Lionel Goodrick's marriage to her before 1547.
> >>
> -------------------------------
> From: Joe C
> On Saturday, January 28, 2017 at 11:44:35 AM UTC-5, Jordan Vandenberg wrote:
> <snip>>
> >> I am assuming the question mark next to the 4 in reference to Edward's age is a 1 meaning the he would be 14 years old at the time of his father's death (since he was not yet 21 and he was alive when Nicholas Robertson/Robinson died in 1552). That would place his birth at around 1547. If Winifred is his mother that would place Lionel Goodrick's marriage to her before 1547.
> >>
> -------------------------------
> Sent: 28 January 2017 16:58
> > ?4 just means the 4 is not totally clear, not that there are two characters.
> >
>
> -------------------------------
>
> I'm fairly sure he was aged just 4. In the original it's written as a word not a number, and although I can't make it all out clearly, it looks more like 'quatuor' than any other number under 21.
>
> Matt
Well that would certainly be consistent if he was age 4 at the time of the ipm, and the leaving of property for children for "19" years was because he was age 2 at the time of the writing of the will.
> > ?4 just means the 4 is not totally clear, not that there are two characters.
> >
>
> -------------------------------
>
> I'm fairly sure he was aged just 4. In the original it's written as a word not a number, and although I can't make it all out clearly, it looks more like 'quatuor' than any other number under 21.
>
> Matt
Certainly that exludes the possibility that the Edward Goodrick mentioned in the will of Nicholas Robinson was the same Edward Goodrick, heir to Lyon.
wjhonson
Jan 28, 2017, 8:26:55 PM1/28/17
to
I'm on two thoughts.
Linc Ped is wrong about which mother is mother of which child, Edward in the will is not this Edward in the IPM, and who is four or thereabouts, and there is a source which agrees with that
https://archive.org/stream/historyofgoodric00good#page/4/mode/2up
States he was born in 1556
On the other hand, say that Edward in the will was *living* at that time and was the son of some wife Robinson *but* that he died, and the Winnifred had a son who was then named Edward as well and yet four at the IPM
That could be another solution
I rather like the first because it opens up the field for trying to figure out where this other Edward fits
Linc Ped is wrong about which mother is mother of which child, Edward in the will is not this Edward in the IPM, and who is four or thereabouts, and there is a source which agrees with that
https://archive.org/stream/historyofgoodric00good#page/4/mode/2up
States he was born in 1556
On the other hand, say that Edward in the will was *living* at that time and was the son of some wife Robinson *but* that he died, and the Winnifred had a son who was then named Edward as well and yet four at the IPM
That could be another solution
I rather like the first because it opens up the field for trying to figure out where this other Edward fits
Jordan Vandenberg
Jan 28, 2017, 8:49:58 PM1/28/17
to
That source also states that (unknown) Robinson was Lionel Goodrick's third wife, which we know is an impossibility since he died in 1561 and was married to Winifred Sapcote at the time. It states that Anne was also an infant at the time. I am curious what the sources were that they consulted. Obviously the IPM they mention and probably Linc. Pedigrees given the mistaken spouse order. If they used the IPM they mentioned, wouldn't they have discovered that Winifred was the 3rd wife?
joe...@gmail.com
Jan 28, 2017, 9:20:52 PM1/28/17
to
On Saturday, January 28, 2017 at 8:49:58 PM UTC-5, Jordan Vandenberg wrote:
> That source also states that (unknown) Robinson was Lionel Goodrick's third wife, which we know is an impossibility since he died in 1561 and was married to Winifred Sapcote at the time. It states that Anne was also an infant at the time.
Apologies if I am stating something you know; but "infant" merely means "not of majority" in this case.
> That source also states that (unknown) Robinson was Lionel Goodrick's third wife, which we know is an impossibility since he died in 1561 and was married to Winifred Sapcote at the time. It states that Anne was also an infant at the time.
Jordan Vandenberg
Jan 29, 2017, 12:43:51 AM1/29/17
to
It appears as if Winifred Sapcote may have married again after Humphrey Littlebury, the man she married after Lionel Goodrick. I think I may have found reference to her as the wife of Thomas Mahewe in a legal dispute over the personal estate of Lyon Goodrick. This may give another avenue to possibly finding a will for Winifred Sapcote, if she is surnamed Mahewe. The perosn they are disputing against is William Towers who proved Lyon Goodrick's will in 1561.
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C3791436
Reference: C 3/214/59
Description:
Short title: Mahewe v Towers.
Plaintiffs: Thomas Mahewe and [Winifred] Mahewe his wife.
Defendants: [William Towers].
Subject: personal estate of the deceased Lyon Goodrick of East Kirkby, Lincolnshire.
Document type: [pleadings].
Note: Mutilated
Date: 1579-1587
Held by: The National Archives, Kew
Legal status: Public Record(s)
Closure status: Open Document, Open Description
I also found reference to it in the Index of Chancery Rolls. Under the Place or Subject column it says: East Kirby, personal estate of Lyon Goodrick (mutilated). What does "mutilated" mean in this context?
https://archive.org/stream/cu31924084263015#page/n37/mode/2up
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C3791436
Reference: C 3/214/59
Description:
Short title: Mahewe v Towers.
Plaintiffs: Thomas Mahewe and [Winifred] Mahewe his wife.
Defendants: [William Towers].
Subject: personal estate of the deceased Lyon Goodrick of East Kirkby, Lincolnshire.
Document type: [pleadings].
Note: Mutilated
Date: 1579-1587
Held by: The National Archives, Kew
Legal status: Public Record(s)
Closure status: Open Document, Open Description
I also found reference to it in the Index of Chancery Rolls. Under the Place or Subject column it says: East Kirby, personal estate of Lyon Goodrick (mutilated). What does "mutilated" mean in this context?
https://archive.org/stream/cu31924084263015#page/n37/mode/2up
taf
Jan 29, 2017, 1:11:13 AM1/29/17
to
On Saturday, January 28, 2017 at 9:43:51 PM UTC-8, Jordan Vandenberg wrote:
> I also found reference to it in the Index of Chancery Rolls. Under the Place
> or Subject column it says: East Kirby, personal estate of Lyon Goodrick
> (mutilated). What does "mutilated" mean in this context?
It means that the document itself is damaged, such that significant parts of the original text are unrecoverable.
> I also found reference to it in the Index of Chancery Rolls. Under the Place
> or Subject column it says: East Kirby, personal estate of Lyon Goodrick
> (mutilated). What does "mutilated" mean in this context?
taf
wjhonson
Jan 29, 2017, 10:00:00 AM1/29/17
to
There is another piece of evidence that drives the nail into the coffin that Edward Goodricke is indeed the son of Winnifred.
That is the will of Humphrey Littlebury in which this claim is also explicitly stated "... testator's wife Winnifred and HER SON Edward..."
So that seems to close this case, and correct an ancient error
That is the will of Humphrey Littlebury in which this claim is also explicitly stated "... testator's wife Winnifred and HER SON Edward..."
So that seems to close this case, and correct an ancient error
Jordan Vandenberg
Jan 29, 2017, 10:20:22 AM1/29/17
to
wjhonson
Jan 29, 2017, 12:24:26 PM1/29/17
to
The Robertson marriage is *predicated* on the idea that "nephew" means grandson, thus creating this additional wife.
What if it does not?
Then there is no Robertson marriage at all
joe...@gmail.com
Jan 29, 2017, 12:44:08 PM1/29/17
to
On Sunday, January 29, 2017 at 12:24:26 PM UTC-5, wjhonson wrote:
> Can I just point out the obvious a bit
> The Robertson marriage is *predicated* on the idea that "nephew" means grandson, thus creating this additional wife.
>
> What if it does not?
> Then there is no Robertson marriage at all
Not entirely true. The marriage of Lyon Goodrick to a daughter of Nicholas Robinson/Robertson of Boston comes from the Visitation. The fact that there is a will from the only Nicholas Robertson in Boston who mentions Lyon Goodrick and leaves a bequest to the Goodricke child citing him as good son and nephew just backs up the visitation claim that there was a relationship there.
> Can I just point out the obvious a bit
> The Robertson marriage is *predicated* on the idea that "nephew" means grandson, thus creating this additional wife.
>
> What if it does not?
> Then there is no Robertson marriage at all
wjhonson
Jan 29, 2017, 1:47:33 PM1/29/17
to
Quite a different thing
And I'm not stating that there was a relationship.
I'm saying it may not have been due what this Vis states
Which Vis, by the way, is not an original image, but rather has been edited with additional material.
Believing possibly, that one additional piece may be that very same will, I'm suggesting that Metcalfe made an error here and placed a marriage where there was none, for the sole purpose of trying to solve the very same question you're claiming is solved.
You have to read the introduction of this book to see that additional material was added.
So we still do not know what the Vis page actually stated
taf
Jan 29, 2017, 2:23:11 PM1/29/17
to
On Sunday, January 29, 2017 at 10:47:33 AM UTC-8, wjhonson wrote:
> Not "Good Son" but rather "Godson"
The actual will says 'goodsone & nephew'.
> Not "Good Son" but rather "Godson"
> Quite a different thing
Is it?
taf
joe...@gmail.com
Jan 29, 2017, 5:14:29 PM1/29/17
to
On Sunday, January 29, 2017 at 1:47:33 PM UTC-5, wjhonson wrote:
> On Sunday, January 29, 2017 at 9:44:08 AM UTC-8, joe...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Sunday, January 29, 2017 at 12:24:26 PM UTC-5, wjhonson wrote:
> >
> > > Can I just point out the obvious a bit
> > > The Robertson marriage is *predicated* on the idea that "nephew" means grandson, thus creating this additional wife.
> > >
> > > What if it does not?
> > > Then there is no Robertson marriage at all
> >
> > Not entirely true. The marriage of Lyon Goodrick to a daughter of Nicholas Robinson/Robertson of Boston comes from the Visitation. The fact that there is a will from the only Nicholas Robertson in Boston who mentions Lyon Goodrick and leaves a bequest to the Goodricke child citing him as good son and nephew just backs up the visitation claim that there was a relationship there.
>
> Not "Good Son" but rather "Godson"
> Quite a different thing
Goodsone means one of two things. Son-in-law or grandson. That's it.
> On Sunday, January 29, 2017 at 9:44:08 AM UTC-8, joe...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Sunday, January 29, 2017 at 12:24:26 PM UTC-5, wjhonson wrote:
> >
> > > Can I just point out the obvious a bit
> > > The Robertson marriage is *predicated* on the idea that "nephew" means grandson, thus creating this additional wife.
> > >
> > > What if it does not?
> > > Then there is no Robertson marriage at all
> >
> > Not entirely true. The marriage of Lyon Goodrick to a daughter of Nicholas Robinson/Robertson of Boston comes from the Visitation. The fact that there is a will from the only Nicholas Robertson in Boston who mentions Lyon Goodrick and leaves a bequest to the Goodricke child citing him as good son and nephew just backs up the visitation claim that there was a relationship there.
>
> Not "Good Son" but rather "Godson"
> Quite a different thing
It does not ever refer to "godson" as in a sponsor of a baptism.
Jordan Vandenberg
Jan 29, 2017, 5:17:01 PM1/29/17
to
This is a summary of what has been discovered (by and through the efforts of a number of SGM posters) thus far in regards to Lyon Goodrick, his wives and children and the connection to the Robertson/Robinson family from the other thread, I am just trying to organize in one place what has been put forth and previously known that is relevant.
To offer context:
Note on the subjects in focus in regards to the most heavily relied upon secondary sources for Royal Descents of Colonial Americans: Royal, Magna Carta and Plantagenet Ancestry by Douglas Richardson, and RD600 by Gary Boyd Roberts.
It looks as though Royal Ancestry by D.Richardson used as it’s source for specifically the connection of (unknown) Robinson/Robertson as the mother of Edward and Anne Goodrick is the Visitation of Lincolnshire.
Perhaps Douglas could clarify if I am wrong in this assumption based on the entry and citations in Royal Ancestry.
In contrast it looks as though RD600 G.B.Roberts used as it’s source for specifically the connection of Winifred Sapcotes as the mother of Edward and Anne Goodrick, Lincolnshire Pedigrees and History of the Goodricke Family (which looks like it used Lincolnshire Pedigrees).
It appears both authors did not consult the will of Nicholas Robertson/Robinson, Merchant of the Staple of Calais (d.1552), or there would have been the connection made between (unknown) Robertson/Robinson and this Nicholas Robertson/Robinson as her father, which appears with his titles and wife’s name and parentage for the entries in R.A. for the lines pertaining to the son Nicholas Robertson/Robinson Jr. and Brian Robertson/Robinson. Also, it would have been included as a citation for the inclusion of (unknown) Robertson/Robinson.
Summary
Unknown Robertson/Robinson
-One of the 5 five daughters of Nicholas Robertson/Robinson (Elizabeth, Eleonore, Isabel, Marie and Frances), though almost certainly not Frances as she was alive and married to William Tupholme and had a son William at the time of her father’s death in 1552.
-Her parents were Nicholas Robertson/Robinson, Merchant of the Staple of Calais and Florence Style.
-She is deceased at the time of her father’s will.
-There is a possibility that the Edward Goodrick (possibly deceased before Lionel Goodrick’s will) in the will of Nicholas Robertson is from Lionel Goodrick’s 2nd marriage to (unknown) Robertson/Robinson, and the Edward Goodrick in the will of Lionel Goodrick appears to be the son of Winifred Spacote.
-Visitation and Richardson say she is the mother of Edward and Anne. Lincolnshire pedigrees says she is not, and that Winifred Sapcote is. Neither mentions the possibility of two Edward’s.
Nicholas Robertson/Robinson, Merchant of the Staple of Calais and Florence Style
-The had what appears to be 7 children. 2 sons: Nicholas and Brian and 5 daughters: Elizabeth, Eleonore, Isabel, Marie and Frances.
-Only Frances is mentioned in Nicholas Robertson’s will from 1552.
-Florence appears to have been deceased.
-Nicholas was the son of Thomas Robertson (d.1531 and son of Nicholas Robertson d.1498 & Alice Leake d.1488), Merchant of the Staple of Calais and Isabella Gooding.
-Florence was the daughter of John Style and Elizabeth Wolston (daughter of Sir Guy Wolston & Margaret Tamworth). Elizabeth Wolston also married 2nd James Yarford.
-Nicholas includes Lionel Goodrick and his wife (Winifred) in his will.
-He also includes Edward Goodrick and refers to him as 'goodsone & nephew' which Todd pointed out could be interpreted as a grandchild during that time, but whether that is what he implied is not known for sure. This inclusion is beside the inclusion of William Tupholme the son of his daughter Frances, and he is referred to in exactly the same way.
-A Richard Goodrick is also mentioned in his will.
Lionel Goodrick
-Married 1st Bridget Jermyn, 2nd (unknown) Robertson/Robinson and 3rd Winifred Sapcote
-He married Winifred prior to 1553, as she appears mentioned in Nicholas Robertson’s 1552 will and in her father’s 1553 will (as Winifred Goodricke).
-Died on 29 Aug 1561.
-At the time he created his will he appears to have had two children: Edward and Anne, both underage at the time.
-Appointed Richard Goodrick as guardian of his son Edward.
-Specifies that Anne is not to marry before 18.
-Edward is his heir.
-Executors to be in control of all his lands, etc., for xix years to bring up his children.
Anne Goodrick
-Under the age of 18 at the time of her father’s will.
-Married Benjamin Bolles likely between 1570-1576.
-Thomas Bolles who appears to be her eldest child born 1576.
-Married 2nd William Jessop.
-Was living in 1608.
-Was born between 1542 and 1558.
-Under the guardianship of Richard Goodrick as stated in his will.
Edward Goodrick
-There may have been two Edwards. If so, one born of (unknown) Robertson (probably deceased by the time Lionel Goodrick’s will), and one born of Winifred Sapcote like born 1556/1557.
-An Edward Goodrick was referred to in Nicholas Robertson/Robinson’s will from 1552 as 'goodsone & nephew.'
-Edward Goodrick was referred to in the IPM for his father Lionel Goodrick as: 'Edward Godrik is . . . both his son and next heir and also his son and the heir of his body lawfully begotten on the body of Winifred." This seems to attribute him as a son of Winifred Sapcote.
-In Humphrey Littlebury’s will he is referred to as “her son” in mention with Winifred Sapcote.
-He was under the guardianship of Richard Goodrick and married his daughter Elizabeth.
-His eldest son Lyon was married in 1600.
-He died March 1617.
Winifred Sapcote
-She appears to have been married 4 times: 1st (unknown) Borton, 2nd Lionel Goodrick, 3rd Humphrey Littlebury, 4th Thomas Mahewe.
-She is the daughter of Henry Sapcote and Jane Smyth.
-She appears to be the mother of Edward Goodrick, who is mentioned in the will of Lionel Goodrick.
-Her affiliation with her 4th husband Thomas Mahewe is derived from the description of a lawsuit against William Towers in regards to the will of Lyon Goodrick.
-She may or may not be the mother of Anne Goodrick.
-She married Lionel Goodrick prior to 1553.
On Saturday, January 28, 2017 at 9:09:56 AM UTC-5, Tompkins, Matthew (Dr.) wrote:
To offer context:
Note on the subjects in focus in regards to the most heavily relied upon secondary sources for Royal Descents of Colonial Americans: Royal, Magna Carta and Plantagenet Ancestry by Douglas Richardson, and RD600 by Gary Boyd Roberts.
It looks as though Royal Ancestry by D.Richardson used as it’s source for specifically the connection of (unknown) Robinson/Robertson as the mother of Edward and Anne Goodrick is the Visitation of Lincolnshire.
Perhaps Douglas could clarify if I am wrong in this assumption based on the entry and citations in Royal Ancestry.
In contrast it looks as though RD600 G.B.Roberts used as it’s source for specifically the connection of Winifred Sapcotes as the mother of Edward and Anne Goodrick, Lincolnshire Pedigrees and History of the Goodricke Family (which looks like it used Lincolnshire Pedigrees).
It appears both authors did not consult the will of Nicholas Robertson/Robinson, Merchant of the Staple of Calais (d.1552), or there would have been the connection made between (unknown) Robertson/Robinson and this Nicholas Robertson/Robinson as her father, which appears with his titles and wife’s name and parentage for the entries in R.A. for the lines pertaining to the son Nicholas Robertson/Robinson Jr. and Brian Robertson/Robinson. Also, it would have been included as a citation for the inclusion of (unknown) Robertson/Robinson.
Summary
Unknown Robertson/Robinson
-One of the 5 five daughters of Nicholas Robertson/Robinson (Elizabeth, Eleonore, Isabel, Marie and Frances), though almost certainly not Frances as she was alive and married to William Tupholme and had a son William at the time of her father’s death in 1552.
-Her parents were Nicholas Robertson/Robinson, Merchant of the Staple of Calais and Florence Style.
-She is deceased at the time of her father’s will.
-There is a possibility that the Edward Goodrick (possibly deceased before Lionel Goodrick’s will) in the will of Nicholas Robertson is from Lionel Goodrick’s 2nd marriage to (unknown) Robertson/Robinson, and the Edward Goodrick in the will of Lionel Goodrick appears to be the son of Winifred Spacote.
-Visitation and Richardson say she is the mother of Edward and Anne. Lincolnshire pedigrees says she is not, and that Winifred Sapcote is. Neither mentions the possibility of two Edward’s.
Nicholas Robertson/Robinson, Merchant of the Staple of Calais and Florence Style
-The had what appears to be 7 children. 2 sons: Nicholas and Brian and 5 daughters: Elizabeth, Eleonore, Isabel, Marie and Frances.
-Only Frances is mentioned in Nicholas Robertson’s will from 1552.
-Florence appears to have been deceased.
-Nicholas was the son of Thomas Robertson (d.1531 and son of Nicholas Robertson d.1498 & Alice Leake d.1488), Merchant of the Staple of Calais and Isabella Gooding.
-Florence was the daughter of John Style and Elizabeth Wolston (daughter of Sir Guy Wolston & Margaret Tamworth). Elizabeth Wolston also married 2nd James Yarford.
-Nicholas includes Lionel Goodrick and his wife (Winifred) in his will.
-He also includes Edward Goodrick and refers to him as 'goodsone & nephew' which Todd pointed out could be interpreted as a grandchild during that time, but whether that is what he implied is not known for sure. This inclusion is beside the inclusion of William Tupholme the son of his daughter Frances, and he is referred to in exactly the same way.
-A Richard Goodrick is also mentioned in his will.
Lionel Goodrick
-Married 1st Bridget Jermyn, 2nd (unknown) Robertson/Robinson and 3rd Winifred Sapcote
-He married Winifred prior to 1553, as she appears mentioned in Nicholas Robertson’s 1552 will and in her father’s 1553 will (as Winifred Goodricke).
-Died on 29 Aug 1561.
-At the time he created his will he appears to have had two children: Edward and Anne, both underage at the time.
-Appointed Richard Goodrick as guardian of his son Edward.
-Specifies that Anne is not to marry before 18.
-Edward is his heir.
-Executors to be in control of all his lands, etc., for xix years to bring up his children.
Anne Goodrick
-Under the age of 18 at the time of her father’s will.
-Married Benjamin Bolles likely between 1570-1576.
-Thomas Bolles who appears to be her eldest child born 1576.
-Married 2nd William Jessop.
-Was living in 1608.
-Was born between 1542 and 1558.
-Under the guardianship of Richard Goodrick as stated in his will.
Edward Goodrick
-There may have been two Edwards. If so, one born of (unknown) Robertson (probably deceased by the time Lionel Goodrick’s will), and one born of Winifred Sapcote like born 1556/1557.
-An Edward Goodrick was referred to in Nicholas Robertson/Robinson’s will from 1552 as 'goodsone & nephew.'
-Edward Goodrick was referred to in the IPM for his father Lionel Goodrick as: 'Edward Godrik is . . . both his son and next heir and also his son and the heir of his body lawfully begotten on the body of Winifred." This seems to attribute him as a son of Winifred Sapcote.
-In Humphrey Littlebury’s will he is referred to as “her son” in mention with Winifred Sapcote.
-He was under the guardianship of Richard Goodrick and married his daughter Elizabeth.
-His eldest son Lyon was married in 1600.
-He died March 1617.
Winifred Sapcote
-She appears to have been married 4 times: 1st (unknown) Borton, 2nd Lionel Goodrick, 3rd Humphrey Littlebury, 4th Thomas Mahewe.
-She is the daughter of Henry Sapcote and Jane Smyth.
-She appears to be the mother of Edward Goodrick, who is mentioned in the will of Lionel Goodrick.
-Her affiliation with her 4th husband Thomas Mahewe is derived from the description of a lawsuit against William Towers in regards to the will of Lyon Goodrick.
-She may or may not be the mother of Anne Goodrick.
-She married Lionel Goodrick prior to 1553.
On Saturday, January 28, 2017 at 9:09:56 AM UTC-5, Tompkins, Matthew (Dr.) wrote:
wjhonson
Jan 29, 2017, 5:57:06 PM1/29/17
to
The term "godson" was spelled in a variety of ways including "goodsone" because... on public schools and local variants and who cares.
Goodsone was never, not even one single time in the history of the world used to mean GRANDson. Not once.
joe...@gmail.com
Jan 29, 2017, 6:05:41 PM1/29/17
to
I strongly disagree with you on both points
wjhonson
Jan 29, 2017, 6:06:19 PM1/29/17
to
Jordan your date for the death of Edward Goodricke is off by two years
His will exists and was probate in 1615
His will exists and was probate in 1615
wjhonson
Jan 29, 2017, 6:08:45 PM1/29/17
to
On Sunday, January 29, 2017 at 3:05:41 PM UTC-8, joe...@gmail.com wrote:
> I strongly disagree with you on both points
I cannot help that you have little to no basis in the etymology and usage of this time period. However my points stand.
> I strongly disagree with you on both points
Show me *ANY* document whatsoever from 1400 to 1600 where a man who we all will agree was the grandfather of another man, refers to that other man as his "goodsone" (with the intent that that word means "grandson") and I will pay you a dollar.
Jordan Vandenberg
Jan 29, 2017, 6:14:51 PM1/29/17
to
On Sunday, January 29, 2017 at 6:06:19 PM UTC-5, wjhonson wrote:
> Jordan your date for the death of Edward Goodricke is off by two years
>
> His will exists and was probate in 1615
Edward's will was:
> Jordan your date for the death of Edward Goodricke is off by two years
>
> His will exists and was probate in 1615
dated 16 August 13 James (1615)
proved 09 March 1617 by his son Lionel Goodrick
Jordan Vandenberg
Jan 29, 2017, 6:17:35 PM1/29/17
to
In that same will Nicholas Robertson refers to his daughter Frances' son William Tupholme (who is his grandson) as:'goodsone & nephew' the same wording as he referred to Edward Goodrick.
joe...@gmail.com
Jan 29, 2017, 6:43:03 PM1/29/17
to
Keep your dollar. Next time I read a will of this era and they leave their soul to "good almighty" I'll pay you a dollar.
taf
Jan 29, 2017, 7:25:53 PM1/29/17
to
On Sunday, January 29, 2017 at 3:17:35 PM UTC-8, Jordan Vandenberg wrote:
> In that same will Nicholas Robertson refers to his daughter Frances' son
> William Tupholme (who is his grandson) as:'goodsone & nephew' the same wording
> as he referred to Edward Goodrick.
This is a bad example, in that the phrase "goodsone & nephew" contains two distinct social relationships, and if 'nephew' here means grandson, then suggesting that 'goodsone' likewise is being used to mean grandson it would represent a redundancy. Hence even if William is a grandson, it does not mean that the word 'goodsone' is being used here to mean grandson.
> In that same will Nicholas Robertson refers to his daughter Frances' son
> William Tupholme (who is his grandson) as:'goodsone & nephew' the same wording
> as he referred to Edward Goodrick.
However, there is a bigger problem. If you look at the will, he actually calls William Tupholme "my godson and nephew". You are right, though, that the similar language, one "goodsone & nephew" and the other "godson and nephew" suggest the intent was to render the same social connections in both cases.
taf
wjhonson
Jan 29, 2017, 7:28:32 PM1/29/17
to
It was Prob at Horncastle by Palfreyman Oct 1615
It was *later* proved by his son, but this does not invalidate the point that the man had been dead some time by that point.
wjhonson
Jan 29, 2017, 7:29:30 PM1/29/17
to
Next contestant?
I'll let you decide why this case is circular if you took Logic A01
Douglas Richardson
Feb 1, 2017, 12:08:48 PM2/1/17
to
Dear Jordan ~
For your interest, this past week I located a second record in the Discovery Catalogue which concerns the legal action between Thomas Mahewe and his wife, Winifred, and William Towers. In this second record, Thomas Mahewe's name is spelled ?Mahenoe.
Reference: C 4/63/68
Court of Chancery: Six Clerks Office: Answers etc, before 1660
Description:
Thomas?Mahenoe and his wife Winifred v. William Towers: answer
Date of document: Sixteenth century
Date: 1501 Jan 1 - 1600 Dec 31
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Uath
+ + + + + + + + +
For your interest, this past week I located a second record in the Discovery Catalogue which concerns the legal action between Thomas Mahewe and his wife, Winifred, and William Towers. In this second record, Thomas Mahewe's name is spelled ?Mahenoe.
Reference: C 4/63/68
Court of Chancery: Six Clerks Office: Answers etc, before 1660
Description:
Thomas?Mahenoe and his wife Winifred v. William Towers: answer
Date of document: Sixteenth century
Date: 1501 Jan 1 - 1600 Dec 31
Held by: The National Archives, Kew
Legal status: Public Record(s)
Language: English
Legal status: Public Record(s)
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Uath
+ + + + + + + + +
Douglas Richardson
Feb 1, 2017, 12:45:05 PM2/1/17
to
Dear Jordan ~
Here's one other Goodrick addition for you.
Genealogist 4 (1880): 31 indicates that Goodrick pedigree in the 1592 Visitation of Lincolnshire identifies Winifred Sapcote, wife of Lionel Goodrick, as follows:
"the second wife of Lyon Goodrike is said to be ... da. of .. Sapcotes of Lincoln, and widow of ... Brinkley of Boston."
The entry in the Genealogist may be viewed at the following weblink:
https://books.google.com/books?id=l3Y4AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA157
As you know, Winifred Sapcote was actual Lionel Goodrick's third surviving wife. The earlier 1562-4 visitation did not indicate if she was his second or third wife. Presumably the editor was mistaken in calling Winifred his second wife, and this error is probably not found in the 1592 visitation.
Needless to say, if you can determine when Winifred Sapcote's first husband, Mr. Brinckley, of Boston, died, then you should know about when she married Lionel Goodrick.
I assume the 1592 visitation continues to show Lionel Goodrick's Robinson wife as the mother of his son and heir, Edward Goodrick. You should probably get a copy of the original visitation just to be sure.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Here's one other Goodrick addition for you.
Genealogist 4 (1880): 31 indicates that Goodrick pedigree in the 1592 Visitation of Lincolnshire identifies Winifred Sapcote, wife of Lionel Goodrick, as follows:
"the second wife of Lyon Goodrike is said to be ... da. of .. Sapcotes of Lincoln, and widow of ... Brinkley of Boston."
The entry in the Genealogist may be viewed at the following weblink:
https://books.google.com/books?id=l3Y4AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA157
As you know, Winifred Sapcote was actual Lionel Goodrick's third surviving wife. The earlier 1562-4 visitation did not indicate if she was his second or third wife. Presumably the editor was mistaken in calling Winifred his second wife, and this error is probably not found in the 1592 visitation.
Needless to say, if you can determine when Winifred Sapcote's first husband, Mr. Brinckley, of Boston, died, then you should know about when she married Lionel Goodrick.
I assume the 1592 visitation continues to show Lionel Goodrick's Robinson wife as the mother of his son and heir, Edward Goodrick. You should probably get a copy of the original visitation just to be sure.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Jordan Vandenberg
Feb 1, 2017, 1:31:25 PM2/1/17
to
Thanks Douglas for this. It is appreciated, and the name variation is interesting. Any idea if this record is available online, or is it something that has to be ordered?
Thanks again,
Jordan.
Thanks again,
Jordan.
Jordan Vandenberg
Feb 1, 2017, 3:54:56 PM2/1/17
to
Douglas,
I believe I have tracked down the will of the Mr. Brinkley of Boston that you mentioned was married to Winifred. I found a PCC will for a William Brynkley, Merchant of Boston, Lincolnshire dated 19 November 1549.
I am pretty brutal (but getting better) at deciphering the old script, but I believe on the 8 line down part of the line reads "I give to my _______(can't make the word out) wife Winifred Brynkely two _______(can't make it out) pounds."
Perhaps someone with a keener eye can confirm this.
I haven't had a chance to look over the rest of the will carefully yet, but I have noticed reference to a "sonne William Brynkley." I am curious if this was Winifred's child.
If the name of the wife I am reading as Winifred is in fact her, then it looks as though she married Lyon Goodrick between 1550 and 1553.
The link to will is:
https://1drv.ms/i/s!AsMhcvOEJ_pakD8rPlYmFeRgJQV_
Thanks again Douglas for the tip about Brynkley and the other lawsuit.
Jordan.
I believe I have tracked down the will of the Mr. Brinkley of Boston that you mentioned was married to Winifred. I found a PCC will for a William Brynkley, Merchant of Boston, Lincolnshire dated 19 November 1549.
I am pretty brutal (but getting better) at deciphering the old script, but I believe on the 8 line down part of the line reads "I give to my _______(can't make the word out) wife Winifred Brynkely two _______(can't make it out) pounds."
Perhaps someone with a keener eye can confirm this.
I haven't had a chance to look over the rest of the will carefully yet, but I have noticed reference to a "sonne William Brynkley." I am curious if this was Winifred's child.
If the name of the wife I am reading as Winifred is in fact her, then it looks as though she married Lyon Goodrick between 1550 and 1553.
The link to will is:
https://1drv.ms/i/s!AsMhcvOEJ_pakD8rPlYmFeRgJQV_
Thanks again Douglas for the tip about Brynkley and the other lawsuit.
Jordan.
Colin Withers
Feb 1, 2017, 4:11:23 PM2/1/17
to Jordan Vandenberg, gen-me...@rootsweb.com
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEV...@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
>
It says: I give to my well beloved wife Winifred Brynkley two hundreth
pounds
Jordan Vandenberg
Feb 1, 2017, 4:26:40 PM2/1/17
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Where I said I thought it also said "sonne William Brynkley" I meant "sonne Stiphyn Brynkley." I believe that is how it reads, but I may be wrong. The reference to a "sonne" is on the line below the reference to Winifred on the line 9.
Douglas Richardson
Feb 1, 2017, 5:34:05 PM2/1/17
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Dear Jordan ~
Here's another record concerning William Brynkley, merchant, of Boston, Lincolnshire:
In Hilary term 1548 William Brynkley, of Boston, Lincolnshire, merchant sued Thomas Dell, of Torksey, Lincolnshire in the Court of Common Pleas regarding a debt of £6.
Reference:
http://aalt.law.uh.edu/aalt1/E6/CP40no1135/aCP40no1135fronts/IMG_1164.htm
Inasmuch as William Brynkley had a son named Stephen, I assume William is closely related to the Stephen Brynkley, of Boston, Lincolnshire, merchant of the Staple who occurs in a Common Pleas lawsuit dated 1545.
Here's another record concerning William Brynkley, merchant, of Boston, Lincolnshire:
In Hilary term 1548 William Brynkley, of Boston, Lincolnshire, merchant sued Thomas Dell, of Torksey, Lincolnshire in the Court of Common Pleas regarding a debt of £6.
Reference:
http://aalt.law.uh.edu/aalt1/E6/CP40no1135/aCP40no1135fronts/IMG_1164.htm
Inasmuch as William Brynkley had a son named Stephen, I assume William is closely related to the Stephen Brynkley, of Boston, Lincolnshire, merchant of the Staple who occurs in a Common Pleas lawsuit dated 1545.
Jordan Vandenberg
Feb 1, 2017, 6:14:40 PM2/1/17
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It appears the Stephen Brynkley, Merchant of the Staple of Calais that you mentioned was the brother of William Brynkley who married Winifred Sapcote.
Towards the bottom of his will he mentions his brother William Brynkley.
The will is dated: 06 Jul 1546
The link to the description of the PCC will is below:
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_fn=&_ln=brynkleye&_occ=&_pl=&_q=&_sd=&_ed=&discoveryCustomSearch=true&_cr1=PROB+11&_col=200&_hb=tna
I have downloaded an image of it below:
https://1drv.ms/i/s!AsMhcvOEJ_pakECUBYlTzLOkwRA4
Regards,
Jordan.
Jordan Vandenberg
Feb 1, 2017, 6:21:27 PM2/1/17
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Douglas Richardson
Feb 1, 2017, 6:55:15 PM2/1/17
to
Dear Jordan ~
Here are a couple of records concerning Thomas Mahewe, of Boston, Lincolnshire, merchant. I believe he is the man you have proposed as the fourth husband of Winifred Sapcote, sometime wife of Lionel Goodrick.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
+ + + + + + + + + + +
"4 Dec. 1553. Acceptance of the election by the native and foreign merchants, in accordance with the ordinance lately made, of Thomas Mahewe to be mayor and Henry Hood and John Overye to be constables of the staples of wool, leather, hides, woolfells and lead at St. Botolph's [Boston, Lincolnshire] for one whole year.
Cal. of Pat. Rolls, 1553-1554 (1937): 378, available at the following weblink:
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015008143458;view=1up;seq=392
+ + + + + + + + + + +
In 1556 Thomas Mayhue, of Boston, Lincolnshire, merchant acknowledged that he owed the king and queen a debt of £30. Signed: Thomas Mahewe.
Reference: Acts of the Privy council of England n.s. 5 (1892): 376, which is available at the following weblink:
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=coo.31924087798595;view=1up;seq=412
Here are a couple of records concerning Thomas Mahewe, of Boston, Lincolnshire, merchant. I believe he is the man you have proposed as the fourth husband of Winifred Sapcote, sometime wife of Lionel Goodrick.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
"4 Dec. 1553. Acceptance of the election by the native and foreign merchants, in accordance with the ordinance lately made, of Thomas Mahewe to be mayor and Henry Hood and John Overye to be constables of the staples of wool, leather, hides, woolfells and lead at St. Botolph's [Boston, Lincolnshire] for one whole year.
Cal. of Pat. Rolls, 1553-1554 (1937): 378, available at the following weblink:
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015008143458;view=1up;seq=392
+ + + + + + + + + + +
In 1556 Thomas Mayhue, of Boston, Lincolnshire, merchant acknowledged that he owed the king and queen a debt of £30. Signed: Thomas Mahewe.
Reference: Acts of the Privy council of England n.s. 5 (1892): 376, which is available at the following weblink:
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=coo.31924087798595;view=1up;seq=412
Jordan Vandenberg
Feb 1, 2017, 9:46:25 PM2/1/17
to
Reference: WARD 7/12/89
Description:
Littlebury, Humphrey: Lincoln
Date: 11 Eliz I.
Held by: The National Archives, Kew
Legal status: Public Record(s)
Closure status: Open Document, Open Description
Link: http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7737343
Legal status: Public Record(s)
Closure status: Open Document, Open Description
Reference: C 142/152/80
Description:
Littlebury, Humphrey: Lincoln
Date: 11 Elizabeth
Held by: The National Archives, Kew
Legal status: Public Record(s)
Closure status: Open Document, Open Description
Link: http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7830306
Legal status: Public Record(s)
Closure status: Open Document, Open Description
His will, which Will referenced in an earlier post in the thread is found in Lincolnshire Wills, which can be found on google books (linked below), makes reference to Winifred, Edward Goodrick and Lyon Goodrick.
Is it likely that the IPM's would could contain information possibly about Anne that the will did not?
https://books.google.ca/books?id=zuhMAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA82&lpg=PA82&dq=%22east+kirkby%22+lincolnshire+goodrick&source=bl&ots=AloS7a-XKQ&sig=mH3xYutdlo7ji2KNDayI9MmF5Tg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiUjuf6qPDRAhWH3oMKHVyTC2I4ChDoAQgpMAQ#v=onepage&q&f=true
Jordan Vandenberg
Feb 1, 2017, 10:05:00 PM2/1/17
to
Does anyone have any idea whether this document has been digitized and is available online to view?
Reference: D258/45/29/9
Description:
Settlement for the marriage already solemnized between Benjamin Bolles and Anne Gudrycke concerning the manor of Osberton (Notts), 16 Jan 19 Eliz
Date: 1577
Held by: Derbyshire Record Office, not available at The National Archives
Language: English
Jordan Vandenberg
Feb 2, 2017, 12:17:48 AM2/2/17
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Ref No D258/45/27/6
Title Deed to lead the uses of a fine between William Jessop and his wife Anne; and John Doyley, Cope Doyley (son and heir of John Doyley) and Hugh Cressy of Lincolns Inn, re closes called Birchin Wood, the two Ruffin Fields and the Breach, England House and Broom Hall, 30 Jan 5 Jas I
Date 1608
http://calmview.derbyshire.gov.uk/CalmView/Record.aspx?src=CalmView.Catalog&id=D258%2f45%2f27%2f6&pos=72
Ref No D258/45/27/5/1-3
Title Copies of a fine between John Doyley, Cope Doyley and Hugh Cressey (plaintiffs) and William Jessop and his wife Anne (defendents) concerning land in North Lees and Sheffield, octave of St Hilary 5 Jas I
Date 1608
http://calmview.derbyshire.gov.uk/CalmView/Record.aspx?src=CalmView.Catalog&id=D258%2f45%2f27%2f5%2f1-3&pos=71
Ref No D258/45/27/8
Title Deed re fine between John Doyley, Cope Doyley and Hugh Cressy; and William Jessop and Anne his wife re land in Sheffield, Little Sheffield, Broom Hall, Elcliffe, Ecclesall and Fulwood, 16 Nov 11 Jas I
Date 1613
http://calmview.derbyshire.gov.uk/CalmView/Record.aspx?src=CalmView.Catalog&id=D258%2f45%2f27%2f8&pos=73
Ref No D258/45/31/6
Title Feoffment by William Jessop and his wife Anne, Wortley Jessop and his wife Katherine and George Jessop to John Pearson of Sheffield of a dwellinghouse called Cherritree House with the adjoining crofts, 31 Jan 12 Jas I
Date 1615
http://calmview.derbyshire.gov.uk/CalmView/Record.aspx?src=CalmView.Catalog&id=D258%2f45%2f31%2f6&pos=77
Ref No D258/45/21/2/1-8
Title Deeds re manor of North Lees, and lands in Ecclesall, Hallam and Fulwood conveyed by a fine between WilliamJessop and Anne his wife; Humphrey Savage of Castleton and William Whittacres of North Lees; Wortley Jessop of Scrofton (Notts) and Kathryn his wife and George Jessop of the Middle Temple, London
Date 1610-1618
http://calmview.derbyshire.gov.uk/CalmView/Record.aspx?src=CalmView.Catalog&id=D258%2f45%2f21%2f2%2f1-8&pos=56
Ref No D258/45/29/12
Title Assignment of all interest in the wardship and marriage of Thomas Bowles, cousin and heir of William Bowles, by William Jessop to Ruth Jessop, 26 May 36 Eliz
Date 1594
http://calmview.derbyshire.gov.uk/CalmView/Record.aspx?src=CalmView.Catalog&id=D258%2f45%2f29%2f12&pos=74
Jordan Vandenberg
Feb 2, 2017, 12:44:53 AM2/2/17
to
It was believed that she first married Benjamin Bolles and 2nd married William Jessop, but in fact she:
1st married Benjamin Bolles d.1582 (somewhere between 1570-1576 likely)
2nd married John Cotes - 02 April 1583 (Eliz XXVth) in Worksop, Nott.
3rd married William Jessop - 19 November 1587 (Eliz XXIXth) in Worksop, Nott.
https://archive.org/stream/registersworkso00pargoog#page/n89/mode/2up
joe...@gmail.com
Feb 2, 2017, 5:39:03 AM2/2/17
to
On Thursday, February 2, 2017 at 12:44:53 AM UTC-5, Jordan Vandenberg wrote:
> Something particularly interesting has come to light. Anne Goodrick daughter of Lionel (Lyon) Goodrick was married 3 times as opposed to two.
> It was believed that she first married Benjamin Bolles and 2nd married William Jessop, but in fact she:
> 1st married Benjamin Bolles d.1582 (somewhere between 1570-1576 likely)
> 2nd married John Cotes - 02 April 1583 (Eliz XXVth) in Worksop, Nott.
> 3rd married William Jessop - 19 November 1587 (Eliz XXIXth) in Worksop, Nott.
> https://archive.org/stream/registersworkso00pargoog#page/n89/mode/2up
Do we know if these were or were not her children?
> Something particularly interesting has come to light. Anne Goodrick daughter of Lionel (Lyon) Goodrick was married 3 times as opposed to two.
> It was believed that she first married Benjamin Bolles and 2nd married William Jessop, but in fact she:
> 1st married Benjamin Bolles d.1582 (somewhere between 1570-1576 likely)
> 2nd married John Cotes - 02 April 1583 (Eliz XXVth) in Worksop, Nott.
> 3rd married William Jessop - 19 November 1587 (Eliz XXIXth) in Worksop, Nott.
> https://archive.org/stream/registersworkso00pargoog#page/n89/mode/2up
Are these her children?
Richard s. John Cotes Jan 20 1583/4
Brian s. John Cotes April 18 1586
Jane d. John Cotes May 21 1587
Margaret d William Jessope Sept 24 1588
If she bore her last child in 1588, this may be another indicator that she was born 1544-1546.
joe...@gmail.com
Feb 2, 2017, 5:43:32 AM2/2/17
to
Jordan Vandenberg
Feb 2, 2017, 8:57:54 AM2/2/17
to
On Thursday, February 2, 2017 at 5:39:03 AM UTC-5, joe...@gmail.com wrote:
The reference is in a Jessop of Broom-Hall pedigree in linked below. I am assuming given the christening date for Margaret that Anne would have been born afterward.
https://books.google.ca/books?id=ML8-AAAAcAAJ&pg=PA213&lpg=PA213&dq=%22william+jessop%22+worteley&source=bl&ots=udh3EGJErw&sig=QyBrZosPMkon3sgPa6s0OMgESDQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwivvIv51PDRAhVq2IMKHUXQAFoQ6AEIKjAG#v=onepage&q=%22william%20jessop%22%20worteley&f=false
wjhonson
Feb 2, 2017, 1:02:19 PM2/2/17
to
I have serious reservations with the idea that she had her *first* child when she was in her 30s.
A more likely explanation, which I keep pointing out, is that that supposed Robinson wife is fictitious, and Anne was a daughter of Winnifred
A more likely explanation, which I keep pointing out, is that that supposed Robinson wife is fictitious, and Anne was a daughter of Winnifred
Jordan Vandenberg
Feb 2, 2017, 1:10:54 PM2/2/17
to
On Thursday, February 2, 2017 at 1:02:19 PM UTC-5, wjhonson wrote:
> I have serious reservations with the idea that she had her *first* child when she was in her 30s.
>
> A more likely explanation, which I keep pointing out, is that that supposed Robinson wife is fictitious, and Anne was a daughter of Winnifred
I agree on the point that it is seeming more likely that her mother was Winifred Sapcote, based on what has come to light, and frankly it doesn't matter to me which mother it is, but that the proper one be identified. I think the evidence suggests that there definitely was an (unknown) Robinson who Lionel Goodrick appears to have had a son Edward with that likely passed away as a child. The question is about Anne Goodrick and who her mother is. It would be nice to find that smoking gun piece of evidence, but perhaps that doesn't exist. There are a couple of sources that haven't been looked at yet that may show some promise. You are right though Will that it would seem odd for her to start have children at almost 30.
> I have serious reservations with the idea that she had her *first* child when she was in her 30s.
>
> A more likely explanation, which I keep pointing out, is that that supposed Robinson wife is fictitious, and Anne was a daughter of Winnifred
wjhonson
Feb 2, 2017, 1:19:32 PM2/2/17
to
Anne named not one but *two* of her own children ..... Winnifred
https://books.google.com/books?id=D8U4AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA13&dq=bolles+of+osberton&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi-y96VgfLRAhVP3GMKHU6mBkUQ6wEIOjAF#v=onepage&q=bolles%20of%20osberton&f=false
wjhonson
Feb 2, 2017, 2:13:48 PM2/2/17
to
One tiny point on Benjamin Bolles.
He was not his father's eldest son, that was Bonaventure who d.v.p, I suppose apparently some time between 1557 and this 1577 document.
He was not his father's eldest son, that was Bonaventure who d.v.p, I suppose apparently some time between 1557 and this 1577 document.
Jordan Vandenberg
Feb 2, 2017, 2:22:38 PM2/2/17
to
Jordan Vandenberg
Feb 2, 2017, 2:39:04 PM2/2/17
to
wjhonson
Feb 2, 2017, 3:10:58 PM2/2/17
to
John Cotes of Worksop
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/rd/56dd1aa0-630d-4582-a22c-c78d6f0f59a0
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/rd/56dd1aa0-630d-4582-a22c-c78d6f0f59a0
Jordan Vandenberg
Feb 2, 2017, 3:38:39 PM2/2/17
to
On Thursday, February 2, 2017 at 3:10:58 PM UTC-5, wjhonson wrote:
> John Cotes of Worksop
>
> http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/rd/56dd1aa0-630d-4582-a22c-c78d6f0f59a0
Thanks Will for the reference to the lease that includes John Cotes. It seems the Derbyshire Records Office has a number of records that pertain to the Bolles and Jessop families.
> John Cotes of Worksop
>
> http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/rd/56dd1aa0-630d-4582-a22c-c78d6f0f59a0
I have contacted them about the one below, but have not heard back. I have been searching, but to know avail for it online. It seems very promising as it is concerning the marriage of Benjamin Bolles and Anne Goodrick. It may at the very list give a date and place for their marriage, and there is an outside chance it could shed some light on who Anne's mother is.
Reference: D258/45/29/9
Description:
Settlement for the marriage already solemnized between Benjamin Bolles and Anne Gudrycke concerning the manor of Osberton (Notts), 16 Jan 19 Eliz
Date: 1577
Held by: Derbyshire Record Office, not available at The National Archives
Language: English
Reference: C 3/214/59
Description:
Short title: Mahewe v Towers.
Plaintiffs: Thomas Mahewe and [Winifred] Mahewe his wife.
Defendants: [William Towers].
Subject: personal estate of the deceased Lyon Goodrick of East Kirkby, Lincolnshire.
Document type: [pleadings].
Note: Mutilated
Date: 1579-1587
Held by: The National Archives, Kew
Legal status: Public Record(s)
Closure status: Open Document, Open Description
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C3791436
Legal status: Public Record(s)
Closure status: Open Document, Open Description
...and the one referencing the same lawsuit Douglas uncovered.
Reference: C 4/63/68
Court of Chancery: Six Clerks Office: Answers etc, before 1660
Description:
Thomas?Mahenoe and his wife Winifred v. William Towers: answer
Date of document: Sixteenth century
Date: 1501 Jan 1 - 1600 Dec 31
Held by: The National Archives, Kew
Legal status: Public Record(s)
Language: English
Legal status: Public Record(s)
The IPM's of Humphrey Littlebury may also give some further evidence, if they contain information that his will does not.
taf
Feb 2, 2017, 3:49:26 PM2/2/17
to
On Thursday, February 2, 2017 at 11:39:04 AM UTC-8, Jordan Vandenberg wrote:
> As it stands for (unknown) Robertson/Robinson to have been Anne Goodrick's
> mother the latest she could have been born (based on what we currently know)
> is 1552, because that is the year of Nicholas Robertson's will and the first
> mention of Lyon Goodrick with Winifred. Thus, the youngest she could have
> been when having Thomas Bolles in 1577 is about 25 years of age. It is not
> out of the question for someone to have their first child at that age, but
> probably unlikely when they are under the guardianship of someone else.
You need to be a little careful here in hypothesizing age likelihood based on the earliest documented child when different husbands are involved. We tend to forget that as many as 10% of couples are infertile or subfertile without intervention. It could well be that either Benjamin Bolles was infertile or that Anne and Benjamin were reproductively incompatible, and hence Anne had no children until she was remarried to a compatible spouse.
> As it stands for (unknown) Robertson/Robinson to have been Anne Goodrick's
> mother the latest she could have been born (based on what we currently know)
> is 1552, because that is the year of Nicholas Robertson's will and the first
> mention of Lyon Goodrick with Winifred. Thus, the youngest she could have
> been when having Thomas Bolles in 1577 is about 25 years of age. It is not
> out of the question for someone to have their first child at that age, but
> probably unlikely when they are under the guardianship of someone else.
taf
Jordan Vandenberg
Feb 2, 2017, 4:00:06 PM2/2/17
to
They had:
Thomas b.1577
Winifred b.1579
Mary b.1580
Winifred b.1581
William b.1582
Jordan Vandenberg
Feb 2, 2017, 9:19:49 PM2/2/17
to
Based on everything so far....
Anne Goodrick
Born: possibly between 1542-1558 (most likely between 1549-1558)
Died: after April 1615
Note:
*Lyon Goodrick stated in his will she was not to marry until 18 years of age.
*Was under the guardianship of Richard Goodrick after her father’s death.
Father:
Lionel (Lyon) Goodrick (d.1561) (son of John Goodrick & Anne Dymoke)
-married 1st Bridget Jermyn
-married 2nd _______ Robertson/Robinson
-married 3rd Winifred Sapcotes
Mother:
(probably) Winifred Sapcote (d. possibly 1588) (daughter of Henry Sapcote & Jane Smyth)
-married 1st William Brynkley
-married 2nd Lyon Goodrick
-married 3rd Humphrey Littlebury
-married 4th Thomas Mahewe
(less likely) _______ Robertson/Robinson (d. before 1553) (daughter of Nicholas Robertson, Merchant of the Staple of Calais & Florence Style)
-married Lionel Goodrick
Spouses
1)Benjamin Bolles (d.1582) (married likely between 1574-1576)
2)John Cotes (d.1587) (married 02 Apr 1583 Worksop, Nott.)
3)William Jessop (d.1530) (married 19 Nov 1587 Worksop, Nott.)
Children:
By Benjamin Bolles
1)Thomas Bolles (b.1577)
2)Winifred Bolles (b.1579) died young
3)Mary Bolles (b.1580)
4)Winifred Bolles (b.1581)
5)William Bolles (b.1582)
By John Cotes
6)Richard Cotes (b.1584)
7)Brian Cotes (b.1586)
8)Jane Cotes (b.1587)
By William Jessop
9)Margaret Jessop (b.1588)
10)Anne Jessop (b.?)
Sources
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/soc.genealogy.medieval/h6JfFOWwcno (Robinson thread discussion)
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/soc.genealogy.medieval/_fJ7Kw7WV80 (Goodrick IPM thread discussion)
Lionel Goodrick IPM Chancery text at TNA, C 142/130/134 transcribed by Dr. Matt Tompkins
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C3791436
https://books.google.com/books?id=l3Y4AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA157
https://books.google.ca/books?id=zuhMAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA82&lpg=PA82&dq=%22east+kirkby%22+lincolnshire+goodrick&source=bl&ots=AloS7a-XKQ&sig=mH3xYutdlo7ji2KNDayI9MmF5Tg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiUjuf6qPDRAhWH3oMKHVyTC2I4ChDoAQgpMAQ#v=onepage&q&f=true
http://calmview.derbyshire.gov.uk/CalmView/Record.aspx?src=CalmView.Catalog&id=D258%2f45%2f31%2f6&pos=77
https://archive.org/stream/registersworkso00pargoog#page/n89/mode/2up
https://books.google.ca/books?id=ML8-AAAAcAAJ&pg=PA213&lpg=PA213&dq=%22william+jessop%22+worteley&source=bl&ots=udh3EGJErw&sig=QyBrZosPMkon3sgPa6s0OMgESDQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwivvIv51PDRAhVq2IMKHUXQAFoQ6AEIKjAG#v=onepage&q=%22william%20jessop%22%20worteley&f=false
https://archive.org/stream/lincolnshirepedi03madd#page/166/mode/2up
https://archive.org/stream/lincolnshirepedi03madd#page/168/mode/2up
https://1drv.ms/f/s!AsMhcvOEJ_pakBpYH8fcvPy1XT41
https://1drv.ms/f/s!AsMhcvOEJ_pakCCU0K16LrZISfk0
https://1drv.ms/f/s!AsMhcvOEJ_pakCIuHfS53RuJZomE
https://archive.org/stream/visitationsofher222732cook#page/n179/mode/2up
http://www.oxford-shakespeare.com/Probate/PROB_11-60-550.pdf
https://archive.org/stream/visitationscoun03britgoog#page/n107/mode/2up
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JHBJ-WMC
https://books.google.com/books?id=M5_kAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA26&lpg=PA26&dq=%22henry+sapcote%22+%221553%22&source=bl&ots=sme6VxdvPW&sig=kE_uBS0W3FQ2wsaAYCVLGl2U80E&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi7rOaMy-XRAhVPySYKHRUUAJkQ6AEINjAG#v=onepage&q=%22henry%20sapcote%22%20%221553%22&f=false
https://1drv.ms/i/s!AsMhcvOEJ_pakD8rPlYmFeRgJQV_
Private Correspondence Joe Cook and Jan Wolfe
Anne Goodrick
Born: possibly between 1542-1558 (most likely between 1549-1558)
Died: after April 1615
Note:
*Lyon Goodrick stated in his will she was not to marry until 18 years of age.
*Was under the guardianship of Richard Goodrick after her father’s death.
Father:
Lionel (Lyon) Goodrick (d.1561) (son of John Goodrick & Anne Dymoke)
-married 1st Bridget Jermyn
-married 2nd _______ Robertson/Robinson
-married 3rd Winifred Sapcotes
Mother:
(probably) Winifred Sapcote (d. possibly 1588) (daughter of Henry Sapcote & Jane Smyth)
-married 1st William Brynkley
-married 2nd Lyon Goodrick
-married 3rd Humphrey Littlebury
-married 4th Thomas Mahewe
(less likely) _______ Robertson/Robinson (d. before 1553) (daughter of Nicholas Robertson, Merchant of the Staple of Calais & Florence Style)
-married Lionel Goodrick
Spouses
1)Benjamin Bolles (d.1582) (married likely between 1574-1576)
2)John Cotes (d.1587) (married 02 Apr 1583 Worksop, Nott.)
3)William Jessop (d.1530) (married 19 Nov 1587 Worksop, Nott.)
Children:
By Benjamin Bolles
1)Thomas Bolles (b.1577)
2)Winifred Bolles (b.1579) died young
3)Mary Bolles (b.1580)
4)Winifred Bolles (b.1581)
5)William Bolles (b.1582)
By John Cotes
6)Richard Cotes (b.1584)
7)Brian Cotes (b.1586)
8)Jane Cotes (b.1587)
By William Jessop
9)Margaret Jessop (b.1588)
10)Anne Jessop (b.?)
Sources
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/soc.genealogy.medieval/h6JfFOWwcno (Robinson thread discussion)
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/soc.genealogy.medieval/_fJ7Kw7WV80 (Goodrick IPM thread discussion)
Lionel Goodrick IPM Chancery text at TNA, C 142/130/134 transcribed by Dr. Matt Tompkins
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C3791436
https://books.google.com/books?id=l3Y4AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA157
https://books.google.ca/books?id=zuhMAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA82&lpg=PA82&dq=%22east+kirkby%22+lincolnshire+goodrick&source=bl&ots=AloS7a-XKQ&sig=mH3xYutdlo7ji2KNDayI9MmF5Tg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiUjuf6qPDRAhWH3oMKHVyTC2I4ChDoAQgpMAQ#v=onepage&q&f=true
http://calmview.derbyshire.gov.uk/CalmView/Record.aspx?src=CalmView.Catalog&id=D258%2f45%2f31%2f6&pos=77
https://archive.org/stream/registersworkso00pargoog#page/n89/mode/2up
https://books.google.ca/books?id=ML8-AAAAcAAJ&pg=PA213&lpg=PA213&dq=%22william+jessop%22+worteley&source=bl&ots=udh3EGJErw&sig=QyBrZosPMkon3sgPa6s0OMgESDQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwivvIv51PDRAhVq2IMKHUXQAFoQ6AEIKjAG#v=onepage&q=%22william%20jessop%22%20worteley&f=false
https://archive.org/stream/lincolnshirepedi03madd#page/166/mode/2up
https://archive.org/stream/lincolnshirepedi03madd#page/168/mode/2up
https://1drv.ms/f/s!AsMhcvOEJ_pakBpYH8fcvPy1XT41
https://1drv.ms/f/s!AsMhcvOEJ_pakCCU0K16LrZISfk0
https://1drv.ms/f/s!AsMhcvOEJ_pakCIuHfS53RuJZomE
https://archive.org/stream/visitationsofher222732cook#page/n179/mode/2up
http://www.oxford-shakespeare.com/Probate/PROB_11-60-550.pdf
https://archive.org/stream/visitationscoun03britgoog#page/n107/mode/2up
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JHBJ-WMC
https://books.google.com/books?id=M5_kAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA26&lpg=PA26&dq=%22henry+sapcote%22+%221553%22&source=bl&ots=sme6VxdvPW&sig=kE_uBS0W3FQ2wsaAYCVLGl2U80E&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi7rOaMy-XRAhVPySYKHRUUAJkQ6AEINjAG#v=onepage&q=%22henry%20sapcote%22%20%221553%22&f=false
https://1drv.ms/i/s!AsMhcvOEJ_pakD8rPlYmFeRgJQV_
Private Correspondence Joe Cook and Jan Wolfe
Jordan Vandenberg
Feb 2, 2017, 10:41:47 PM2/2/17
to
Joe Cook a little while ago came across an indexed burial record at the link below that was for a Mahew wife of Thomas Mahew the elder who was buried on 17 Sep 1588. He suspected that it was Winifred Sapcote whose 4th husband was Thomas Mahew.
It turns out that he was right. The original record is linked below that identifies her.
http://www.lincstothepast.com/Records/RecordDisplayTranscript.aspx?oid=616896&iid=279839
It turns out that he was right. The original record is linked below that identifies her.
http://www.lincstothepast.com/Records/RecordDisplayTranscript.aspx?oid=616896&iid=279839
Ken Rolston
Feb 3, 2017, 6:31:32 PM2/3/17
to
1590/91 Nicholas Robinson was buryed the xxiijth day of Mche (March) Ao pred
Your Nicholas was elsewhere said to be of Boston, but is this him? I suspect this Nicholas might be a generation later. Perhaps a son? But there is no other info to identify him.
Ken Rolston
Jordan Vandenberg
Feb 3, 2017, 8:41:11 PM2/3/17
to
Hi Ken,
The Nicholas Robertson/Robinson discussed d.1552, and did have a son also named Nicholas Robertson/Robinson who died in 1560. According to the visitation of Lincolnshire, the elder Nicholas had a half-brother named Anthony who had descendants named Nicholas as well. Perhaps if it is part of the same family it is one of his descendants, but I am not sure.
Jordan.
The Nicholas Robertson/Robinson discussed d.1552, and did have a son also named Nicholas Robertson/Robinson who died in 1560. According to the visitation of Lincolnshire, the elder Nicholas had a half-brother named Anthony who had descendants named Nicholas as well. Perhaps if it is part of the same family it is one of his descendants, but I am not sure.
Jordan.
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