The Merlay-Somerville-Griffith descent
Douglas Richardson
Below please find the Merlay-Somerville-Griffith descent. I've used
many sources to construct the ten generations of this descent, chief
among them are W. Percy, Hedley Northumberland Families; John Hodgson,
Hist. of Northumberland; M.H. Dodds, Hist. of Northumberland, vol. 13;
Stebbing Shaw, Hist. & Antiquities of Staffordshire; Trans.
Cymmrodorion 1913-1914; John E. Lloyd, Hist. of Carmarthenshire; and
Dictionary of Welsh Biography (1959): 839-840.
There are side descents from these families through intermarriages with
the Gobion, Cromwell, and Vernon families, which marriages I've
indicated below.
Comments are invited.
Best always, Douglas Richardson Salt Lake City, Utah
Website: www.royalancestry.net
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
MERLAY-SOMERVILLE-GRIFFITH
1. WILLIAM DE MERLAY, of Morpeth, Northumberland, died c. 1129. He
married MENIALDE _____.
2. RANULPH DE MERLAY, of Morpeth, Northumberland, died before 1166. He
married JULIANE OF DUNBAR, daughter of Gospatrick, Earl of Dunbar
(descendant of King Ethelred II of England)
3. ROGER DE MERLAY, of Morpeth, Northumberland, died in 1188. He
married ALICE DE STUTEVILLE, daughter of Roger de Stuteville, of Burton
Agnes, Yorkshire. Alice was co-heiress before 1199 to her brother,
Anselm de Stuteville, by which she inherited the manor of Burton Agnes,
Yorkshire, and a mesne lordship of lands in North Cave, South Cliffe,
and Hotham, Yorkshire. She was living in 1242.
Children of Roger de Merlay, by Alice de Stuteville:
i. ROGER DE MERLAY [see next].
ii. AGNES DE MERLAY, married RICHARD GOBION, of Higham Gobion,
Bedfordshire.
4. ROGER DE MERLAY, of Morpeth, Witton, etc., Northumberland, Burton
Agnes, Yorkshire, etc., benefactor of Newminster Abbey and Brinkburn,
son and heir, born about 1173 (of age in 1194), died 1239. He married
(1st) in or after 1188 (grant of his marriage) ADA OF FIFE, daughter of
Duncan, 6th Earl of Fife, by his wife, Ela, daughter evidently of
Reynold de Warenne. He married (2nd) MARGERY DE UMFREVILLE, daughter
of Richard de Umfreville.
5. ROGER DE MERLAY, Knt., of Morpeth, Northumberland, Burton Agnes,
Yorkshire, etc., died 1265, son by his father's 1st marriage. He
married before 1241 ISABEL _____. His widow, Isabel, married (2nd)
before 1279 Adam de Everingham, of Laxton, Nottinghamshire.
6. ISABEL DE MERLAY, daughter and co-heiress, born about 1257 (aged 8
in 1265), died 1300. She married before 7 May 1275 ROBERT DE
SOMERVILLE, Knt., died 1297, of Wichnor (in Tatenhill), Alrewas,
Curborough House (in Streethay), and Tunstall, Staffordshire, and, in
right of his wife, of Great Benton, Witton Underwood, Horsley, Stanton,
and Windegates, Northumberland, and Knaptoft, Leicestershire. Isabel
was co-heiress in 1268 to her sister, Alice de Merlay, wife of Robert
de Thweng, by which her share of the Merlay estates increased from a
one-third to one-half share. In 1294 Robert acquired the other half
share of the manor of Burton Agnes, Yorkshire by an exchange with his
wife's nephew, John de Greystoke.
Children of Isabel de Merlay, by Robert de Somerville, Knt.:
i. PHILIP DE SOMERVILLE, Knt. [see next].
ii. JOAN DE SOMERVILLE, married RALPH DE CROMWELL, Knt. Lineal
ancestors of Ralph Cromwell, Knt., 1st Lord Cromwell.
7. PHILIP DE SOMERVILLE, Knt., of Wichnor (in Tatenhill), Alrewas,
Newbold, etc., Staffordshire, Knight of the Shire for Staffordshire,
Sheriff of Bedfordshire and Buckinghamshire, younger son, born about
1287 (aged 50 in 1337), died 1355. He married MARGARET DE PIPE, living
1325, daughter of Thomas de Pipe, Knt. They had two daughters, Joan
(see below) and Elizabeth (wife of John de Stafford). In 1300 his
brother Edmund de Somerville assigned Philip various lands which had
been held in dower by their mother, Isabel. Philip was heir in 1319 to
his older brother, Edmund de Somerville, clerk, by which he inherited
the manors of Wichnor (in Tatenhill), Newbold, Tunstall, Staffordshire,
etc. He was also heir in 1337 to his younger brother, Roger de
Somerville, Knt., of Burton Agnes, Yorkshire. Philip may be regarded
as the second founder of Balliol College at Oxford University, to which
institution he added new scholars to the number of fellows as well as
one chaplain.
8. JOAN DE SOMERVILLE, daughter and co-heiress, died 1376. She married
about 12 February 1325 (date of settlement) RHYS AP GRIFFITH, Knt.,
adult by 1309, died 1356, of Llansadwrn in Cantrefmawr and Dryslwyn,
Carmarthen and Narberth castles in Wales, and, in right of his wife, of
Wichnor (in Tatenhill), Alrewas, etc., Staffordshire, Great Benton,
Witton-Underwood, etc., Northumberland, Burton Agnes, Yorkshire,
steward of Cardigan, forester of Glyncothi and Pennant, deputy to the
royal justice of South Wales, sheriff of Carmarthen, steward of
Cantrefmawr, son and heir of Gruffydd ap Hywel ap Gruffydd ab Ednyfed
Fychan, of Llansadwrn, by Nest, daughter of Gwrwared ap Gwilym of
Cemais.
9. RHYS AP GRIFFITH, Knt., of Wichnor (in Tatenhill), Alrewas,
Draycott, Newbold, and Tunstall, Staffordshire, Orreby, Lincolnshire,
Stockton, Warwickshire, Burton Agnes, Yorkshire, son and heir, born
about 25 December 1325, died 1380. He married (1st) before 1370 ISABEL
DE STACKPOLE, daughter and heiress of Richard de Stackpole, of
Stackpole, Angle and Lony. He married (2nd) before 1377 MARGARET LA
ZOUCHE, died 1430, daughter of _____ la Zouche. His widow, Margaret,
married (2nd) after 6 November 1385 William Walsall (died 1414), of
Rushall, Staffordshire, Knight of the Shire for Staffordshire,
Escheator of Shropshire, Staffordshire, and the Welsh Marsh, Sheriff of
Shropshire and Staffordshire, 1377, Sheriff of Staffordshire,
1381-1383, 1389-1390, 1396-1399, 1406-1407, Constable of Stafford,
Carmarthen and Dynevor castles, Marshal of the Hall to King Richard II,
1395-1399.
Child of Rhys ap Griffith, Knt., by Isabel de Stackpole:
i. JOAN GRIFFITH, married RICHARD VERNON, Knt., of Haddon,
Derbyshire [see VERNON 9].
Child of Rhys ap Griffith, Knt., by Margaret Zouche:
i. THOMAS GRIFFITH, Esq. [see next].
10. THOMAS [AP] GRIFFITH, Esq., of Wichnor (in Tatenhill), Alrewas,
etc., Staffordshire, son and heir, born 19 May 1377, died 1433. He
married ANNE BLOUNT, daughter of Walter Blount, Knt., of Barton Blount,
Derbyshire, by Sanche de Ayala, daughter of Diego Gomez de Toledo,
Alcalde maior de Toledo. Thomas was heir in 1387 to his 1st cousin,
Margaret, wife of William de Carnaby (daughter of his uncle, Henry ap
Griffith, Knt.).
WJho...@aol.com
royala...@msn.com writes:
<< ALICE DE STUTEVILLE, daughter of Roger de Stuteville, of Burton
Agnes, Yorkshire. Alice was co-heiress before 1199 to her brother,
Anselm de Stuteville, by which she inherited the manor of Burton Agnes,
Yorkshire, and a mesne lordship of lands in North Cave, South Cliffe,
and Hotham, Yorkshire. She was living in 1242. >>
Douglas, what is your source that she was living in 1242 ??
Leo shows that she died in 1202. Did she really outlive her husband by 54
years ?
Will Johnson
WJho...@aol.com
royala...@msn.com writes:
<< Philip was heir in 1319 to
his older brother, Edmund de Somerville, clerk, by which he inherited
the manors of Wichnor (in Tatenhill), Newbold, Tunstall, Staffordshire,
etc. He was also heir in 1337 to his younger brother, Roger de
Somerville, Knt., of Burton Agnes, Yorkshire. Philip may be regarded
as the second founder of Balliol College at Oxford University, to which
institution he added new scholars to the number of fellows as well as
one chaplain. >>
Would you be willing to specify how you know the birth order of the three
brothers?
Thanks
Will Johnson
John Higgins
is an example of what's coming in the "baronial descents" volume, it should
be an interesting book.
FWIW, a possible addition:
One of Carl Boyer's recent books (probably the one on Welsh ancestors of
Americans) cites Bartrum and says that Sir Rhys I ap Griffith (d. 1356) had
at least two other children with descendants of interest to Americans: a
son Gruffudd and a daughter Margred, both of whose descendants are traced
further by Boyer.
Bartrum, of course, screwed up the marriages of Sir Rhys I and Sir Rhys II,
assigning Isabel de Stackpole to the father rather than the son. Boyer
doesn't catch this error and so he may not be reliable as to the placement
of the children. But it's something that may be worth looking into for
possible American descents....
mvernon...@yahoo.co.uk
"John Higgins" wrote:
> This is an interesting and useful descent...thanks for posting it. If this
> is an example of what's coming in the "baronial descents" volume, it should
> be an interesting book.
>
> FWIW, a possible addition:
>
> One of Carl Boyer's recent books (probably the one on Welsh ancestors of
> Americans) cites Bartrum and says that Sir Rhys I ap Griffith (d. 1356) had
> at least two other children with descendants of interest to Americans: a
> son Gruffudd and a daughter Margred, both of whose descendants are traced
> further by Boyer.
>
> Bartrum, of course, screwed up the marriages of Sir Rhys I and Sir Rhys II,
> assigning Isabel de Stackpole to the father rather than the son. Boyer
> doesn't catch this error and so he may not be reliable as to the placement
> of the children. But it's something that may be worth looking into for
> possible American descents....
Don't know about Gruffudd ap Gruffudd, but Margred would presumably be
via the Whitney family: she was ancestral to Angharad ferch Madog ap
Ieuan Goch, who allegedly married a Robert Whitney (the one who was
k.1402 maybe? Or did she marry Eustace Whitney- or none of them at
all?); and also to Elizabeth (or Alice?), daughter of Thomas Vaughan of
Hergest, who married a later Robert Whitney (fl.1476). From the latter
marriage I believe descended, inter alia, Anne Morgan, who married the
much discussed Henry, 1st baron Hunsdon.
Matthew
Douglas Richardson
Thank you for your good post. You've asked an excellent question.
W. Percy Hedley, Northumberland Families 1 (1968): 197 (sub Barony of
Morpeth) states that Roger de Merlay I "died in 1188, but his widow
[Alice de Stuteville] was stil alive in 1242 when she held East Duddo
and Twizel in free marriage." I relied on Mr. Hedley for this date.
While Mr. Hedley does not cite his source, the information comes from
Book of Fees, 2 (1923): 1125 which states the following:
1242-1243, Northumberland
"Alicia de Merlay tenet de Roger de Merlay Twisill' et Dudden de Est
per liberum maritagium."
Given that Alice de Merlay held these properties in free marriage of
Roger de Merlay III in 1242-3, I would have to assume that this Alice
de Merlay was actually Roger III's sister or aunt, not his grandmother,
Alice de Stuteville, as claimed by Hedley. In any event, Roger III's
grandmother, Alice de Stuteville, was surely dead in 1242-3.
All the same, I believe that Alice (de Stuteville) de Merlay was living
as late as 1219, as indicated by another record in Book of Fees, 1
(1920): 250:
A.D. 1219
Northumberland
"Alicia de Stuteville est de donatione domini regis et non est
maritata; terra eius valet xl.l."
"Alicia de Merlay de donatione domini regis et non est maritata; terre
eius valet c.s."
I assume that the first woman named is Alice de Stuteville, widow of
Roger de Merlay I, who appears in this record under her maiden name,
she being a major heiress in her own right. This woman was obviously
quite wealthy, as her lands were worth 40 pounds per annum. The other
lady, Alice de Merlay, also a widow, held lands worth only 100
shillings.
To fully establish the identity of the Alice de Stuteville in the 1219
record, I suggest that you consult the Curia Regis Rolls and Pipe Rolls
leading up to 1219. Given this woman's great wealth, she should
appear regularly in the records. As for the identity of the Alice de
Merlay living in 1242-3, you might well be able to trace this woman by
consulting the histories of the manors of East Duddo and Twizel in the
published Histories of Northumberland. Good luck in your sleuthing.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Website: www.royalancestry.net
WJho...@aol.com
royala...@msn.com writes:
<< Given that Alice de Merlay held these properties in free marriage of
Roger de Merlay III in 1242-3, I would have to assume that this Alice
de Merlay was actually Roger III's sister or aunt, not his grandmother, >>
What does "in free marraige" imply ? Could she have been the widow of his
brother or uncle?
Will Johnson
WJho...@aol.com
royala...@msn.com writes:
<< To fully establish the identity of the Alice de Stuteville in the 1219
record, I suggest that you consult the Curia Regis Rolls and Pipe Rolls
leading up to 1219. >>
Are these things online somewhere?
I checked A2A for East Duddo and Duddo and Twizel and basically there is
nothing before about 1550-1600 on these names.
Will
Douglas Richardson
Property given in free marriage means that the gift carried no homage
or tenure in fee. If Alice de Merlay had been a Merlay widow, she
would not hold the property in free marriage, but rather in right of
her dower.
The manor of Stannington, Northumberland, which included Duddo, was
evidently a manor belonging originally to the Merlay family, as
indicated by the the following quote from an online source:
Source: http://www.genuki.bpears.org.uk/NBL/Stannington/Gaz1868.html
"STANNINGTON, a parish in the W. division of Castle ward, county
Northumberland, 5 miles S.E. of Morpeth, its post town, and 2 W. of
Netherton. The village, which is considerable, is situated on the river
Blyth, at the mouth of which is the seaport of that name. The parish is
divided into Blagdon, Bellasis, Clifton, Duddo, and Plessey. The manor
formerly belonged to Roger de Merlai, the Greystokes, Somervilles, &c.
Douglas Richardson
mj...@btinternet.com
WJho...@aol.com schrieb:
> In a message dated 11/11/05 6:00:35 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> royala...@msn.com writes:
>
> << To fully establish the identity of the Alice de Stuteville in the 1219
> record, I suggest that you consult the Curia Regis Rolls and Pipe Rolls
> leading up to 1219. >>
>
> Are these things online somewhere?
Will, apart from what might be available on the new google site etc,
Chris has an excellent summary with links, which you may already be
familiar with:
http://www.medievalgenealogy.org.uk/sources/public.shtml
Best wishes
Michael
John P. Ravilious
Dear Doug, John, Will, Michael, et al.,
While working on a few lines as time allows (mostly Scots of
late), I noted an additional de Somerville of Merlay descent, as
follows:
Licence dated at Kirkliston, 18 July 1298:
" Licence, at the instance of Aymer de Valencia, the
king's kinsman, for Isabella, late the wife of Robert
de Sumervill to enfeoff Roger de Sumervill, her son,
of the manor of Wytton and a moiety of the manor of
Benton, with the advowsons of the churches of Benton
and Stanyngton, which are of her purparty of the
barony of Merlay, and are held in chief. "
[CPR 1292-1301, p. 356, membrane 10]
Obviously Roger de Somerville was a younger son, who held the
manor of Witton and other property in 1298 (but not in chief).
Whether the line continued past his generation or not, I do not know at
this point.
Cheers,
John
"John Higgins" wrote:
> This is an interesting and useful descent...thanks for posting it. If this
> is an example of what's coming in the "baronial descents" volume, it should
> be an interesting book.
>
> FWIW, a possible addition:
>
> One of Carl Boyer's recent books (probably the one on Welsh ancestors of
> Americans) cites Bartrum and says that Sir Rhys I ap Griffith (d. 1356) had
> at least two other children with descendants of interest to Americans: a
> son Gruffudd and a daughter Margred, both of whose descendants are traced
> further by Boyer.
<<<<<<<<<< SNIP >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Peter Sutton
Sir Roger de Somerville was the 5th son of Sir Robert de Somerville and
Isabel de Merlay. He died d.s.p. in 1336 and was buried at Burton Agnes.
He was married twice. His first wife was Matilda de Sutton and his second
wife was named Agnes. Agnes subsequently married Ralph de Burton (Sources:
G. E. Kendall, The Town of Hamilton in Leicestershire & its Ancient Lords
(Association of Architectural Societies Reports & Papers 1920 Volume: 35 Pt
2 pp: 323-356 & Sir Reginald Hardy of Dunstall, A History of the Parish of
Tatenhill in the County of Stafford, Vol: 1 (Harrison & Sons, London, 1897))
Roger was succeeded by his younger brother Sir Philip de Somerville.
Regards
Peter Sutton
Hal Bradley
Hodgson's "A History of Northumberland in Three Parts", vol. 2, part 2, p.
315 shows five sons for Robert & Isabel (de Merlay) Somerville: Robert,
Roger, Adam, John & Philip. Additionally, there was Edmund (as posted by
Douglas) and apparently a daughter Joan. Hodgson presents Philip as the
youngest son.
Hal Bradley
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John P. Ravilious [mailto:the...@aol.com]
> Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2005 6:05 AM
> To: GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com
> Subject: Re: The Merlay-Somerville-Griffith descent
>
>
> Saturday, 12 November, 2005
>
>
>
> Dear Doug, John, Will, Michael, et al.,
>
> While working on a few lines as time allows (mostly Scots of
> late), I noted an additional de Somerville of Merlay descent, as
> follows:
>
> Licence dated at Kirkliston, 18 July 1298:
> " Licence, at the instance of Aymer de Valencia, the
> king's kinsman, for Isabella, late the wife of Robert
> de Sumervill to enfeoff Roger de Sumervill, her son,
> of the manor of Wytton and a moiety of the manor of
> Benton, with the advowsons of the churches of Benton
> and Stanyngton, which are of her purparty of the
> barony of Merlay, and are held in chief. "
>
> [CPR 1292-1301, p. 356, membrane 10]
>
> Obviously Roger de Somerville was a younger son, who held the
> manor of Witton and other property in 1298 (but not in chief).
> Whether the line continued past his generation or not, I do
> not know at
> this point.
>
> Cheers,
>
> John
>
>
<snip>
WJho...@aol.com
writes:
<< Obviously Roger de Somerville was a younger son, who held the
manor of Witton and other property in 1298 (but not in chief).
Whether the line continued past his generation or not, I do not know at
this point. >>
He could have been as old as 26 and as young as 14 in 1298.
He does have an I.P.M. in 1337 (11 Edw III) and he is supposed to have had a
wife named Maude who died "bef 17 Oct 1313". It that is any help in
determining whether he had descendents.
Will Johnson
WJho...@aol.com
hw.br...@verizon.net writes:
<< Hodgson's "A History of Northumberland in Three Parts", vol. 2, part 2, p.
315 shows five sons for Robert & Isabel (de Merlay) Somerville: Robert,
Roger, Adam, John & Philip. Additionally, there was Edmund (as posted by
Douglas) and apparently a daughter Joan. Hodgson presents Philip as the
youngest son. >>
Edmund, the eldest succeeded his father in 1297
If we allow the above-list to be in birth order, then we have to postulate
that
1) Robert died between 1320 (earliest death of his elder brother) and 1337
(when Roger died). Since Roger himself is called "8th Lord Somerville of
Whichnor".
2) Then I'm not sure if we know, but *if* Phillip succeeded next (he is
called "50 or more" in the 1337 I.P.M.) then John and Adam also have to have died
before 1337.
Does this all sound reasonable?
Will Johnson
Douglas Richardson
The History of Northumberland, vol. 13 (London, 1930), pg. 409 states
that the heir of Isabel de Merlay, widow of Robert de Somerville, was
her "older" son, Edmund de Somerville, who died c.1318. Edmund's heir
in turn was his brother, Roger de Somerville, citing Cal. Patent Rolls,
1317-1321, pg. 262. Roger de Somerville in turn "died in 1337, when
his heir was his brother, Philip, aged fifty," citing Chanc. inq. p.m.
Edward III. 52 (8) - Cal. inq. p.m., vol. viii. No. 140.
Presuming this information is correctly stated, it means that the
correct birth order of the three Somerville sons is Edmund, Roger, and
Philip.
jeffchip9
Thank you for your posts. It clears up many questions.
Jeff Chipman
Douglas Richardson
Please find below a slightly different Merlay-Somerville-Griffith
descent than one I posted previously. In this new arrangement, I've
set forth a line of descent from King William the Lion of Scotland
through an intermarrage of the Roos and Merlay families.
For interest's sake, I've listed below the numerous 17th Century New
World immigrants who descend from Isabel de Roos, wife of Sir Roger de
Merlay, of Morpeth, Northumberland [Generation 4 below]:
1. Via Joan de Somerville, wife of Ralph de Cromwell, Knt.
William Bladen, Kenelm Cheseldine, Grace Chetwode, William Farrer,
Muriel Gurdon, Anne & Katherine Marbury, Thomas Owsley, Richard
Saltonstall, Mary Johanna Somerset.
2. Via Joan Griffith, wife of Richard Vernon, Knt.:
Robert Abell, Thomas Booth, Obadiah Bruen, Henry Corbin, Henry, Jane &
Nicholas Lowe.
3. Via Rhys Griffith, Esq., of Stickford, Lincolnshire:
William Asfordby, Joseph Bolles, Diana & Grey Skipwith.
4. Via Margaret Griffith, wife of Robert Willoughby, Knt.
Charles Calvert, Henry, Jane & Nicholas Lowe, Mary Johanna Somerset.
For the links between the various immigrants and the
Merlay-Somerville-Griffith descent presented below, please see Douglas
Richardson, Plantagenet Ancestry (2004) and Magna Carta Ancestry
(2005).
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Website: www.royalancestry.net
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SCOTLAND-ROOS-MERLAY-SOMERVILLE-GRIFFITH LINE
1. WILLIAM THE LION, King of Scotland, died 1214. By a mistress,
_____, daughter of Richard Avenel, he had one illegitimate daughter,
Isabel.
2. ISABEL OF SCOTLAND, illegitimate daughter. She married (1st) Robert
de Brus. She married (2nd) at Haddington, East Lothian, Scotland early
in 1191 ROBERT DE ROOS (or ROS), of Helmsley and Hunsingore, Yorkshire,
and Wark, Northumberland, Sheriff of Cumberland, son of Everard de
Roos, Baron of Helmsley, by Roese, daughter of William Trussebut, of
Warter, Yorkshire, Baron of Hunsingore, Yorkshire, born about 1170-2
(aged 13 in 1185, had livery of his lands in 1191). They had four
sons, William, Knt., Robert, Peter, and Alexander. He succeeded to his
father's lands in 1191, paying a relief of 1,000 marks. In 1195 he
served as Bailiff and Castellan of Bonneville-sur-Touques in Lower
Normandy. In 1196 King Richard I handed a French prisoner, Hugh de
Chaumont, over to Robert's keeping. Robert imprisoned him in his
castle at Bonneville. Robert's servant, William d'Epinay, the
keeper of the castle, was afterwards bribed into conniving at Hugh's
escape. King Richard, angry at the loss of such important a prisoner,
ordered d'Epinay to be hanged, and fined Robert 1,200 marks. In 1200
Robert escorted his wife's father, King William the Lion, to do
homage to King John at Lincoln. The same year he received from King
John a grant of all the honours and lands which had belonged to Walter
Espec in Northumberland, including Wark, where Robert built a castle.
In 1203 he was again at Bonneville-sur-Touques, and appears to have
been in John's service in Normandy during the later months of that
year. In February 1205/6 he proposed to make a pilgrimage to
Jerusalem. In 1207 he seems to have let another prisoner, a certain
Thomas de Bekering, escape, for which offence he was acquitted of a
fine of 300 marks in Dec. 1207. In 1209 he was sent by the king with
others to meet the king of Scotland. In 1213 the king committed to him
the forest and county of Cumberland. In 1213 he was one of the
witnesses to John's surrender of the kingdom to the pope, and was one
of twelve men who undertook to compel John to keep his promises made in
favor of the English church. He joined the confederacy of the barons
at Stamford in Easter week, 1215. He was one of the twenty-five barons
elected to guarantee the observance of Magna Carta, signed by King John
15 June 1215. In consequence he was among the barons excommunicated by
Pope Innocent III 16 Dec. 1215. In Jan. 1216 the king granted his
lands to William, Count of Aumale. He was summoned to deliver up
Carlisle Castle, but it led to nothing. He returned to his allegiance
in November 1217, and his Cumberland estates were confirmed to him in
1218. His other lands were restored in 1220. In 1221 he was summoned
to help in besieging and destroying Skipsea Castle. He was a
benefactor of Rievaulx, Newminster, Kirkham, and the Templars. He
founded a hospital for lepers at Bolton, Northumberland. He took the
monastic habit before 23 Dec. 1226, when his son did homage for his
lands. ROBERT DE ROS died sometime in 1227, and was buried in the
Temple Church at London.
3. ROBERT DE ROOS, Knt., of Wark, Northumberland and Samquhar in
Nithsdale, Scotland, younger son. He married an unidentified wife,
_____. They had two sons, William and Robert, and two daughters,
Isabel and Ida (wife of Roger Bertram, Robert de Neville, Knt., and
John Fitz Marmaduke, Knt.). He fought in France in 1230, was Justice
of the King's Bench in 1234 and went on circuit in Lincolnshire,
Yorkshire, and Northumberland. He was Chief Justice of the Forests of
Nottinghamshire, Derby, Yorkshire, Lancashire, Northumberland, and
Cumberland on 27 Nov. 1236. He had a grant for free-warren in Wark,
Carham, Presson, Mindrum, Downham, Moneylands and Learmouth,
Northumberland, 28 Dec. 1251. He lent his Castle of Wark to the King
from 28 August 1255 till 12 May 1256. In 1255, with John de Balliol,
he was appointed Guardian of Margaret, Queen of Scotland, but was
accused of unfaithfulness in that trust. He was summoned to appear at
the English Court, and eventually submitted, whereupon his lands were
seised by the King. On subsequent investigation, he was found to be
not guilty, and Wark Castle was restored to him and his older brother,
William, 7 Nov. 1259. In 1266 he conveyed the reversion of the manor
of Wark, Northumberland to his younger son, Robertd de Roos. SIR
ROBERT DE ROOS was living in 1267, but died shortly before Nov. 1269.
4. ISABEL DE ROOS, married before Hilary Term 1241 ROGER DE MERLAY,
Knt., of Morpeth, Benton, Killingworth, North Weetslade, South
Weetslade, and Walker, Northumberland, Burton Agnes, Yorkshire, etc.,
2nd but eldest surviving son and heir of Roger de Merley, of Morpeth,
Northumberland, by his 1st wife, Ada, daughter of Duncan, Earl of Fife.
He was of age in 1239. They had four daughters, Mary (wife of Thomas
de Greystoke), Margery (wife of Walter de Bolebec), Alice (wife of
Robert de Thweng), and Isabel. He founded a chantry in Stannington,
Northumberland for the maintenance of one chaplain to say divine
services at the altar of St. Mary for the souls of himself, his
ancestors and successors. In 1257 he was granted a weekly market and a
yearly fair to be held at the manor of Witton Underwood,
Northumberland. About 1257 he confirmed the gift which his cousin,
Hugh Gobion, Knt., made of all his lands in Yeddingham, Yorkshire to
the nuns of Yeddingham. SIR ROGER DE MERLAY died shortly before 4
December 1265. His widow, Isabel, married (2nd) before 1271 Adam de
Everingham, of Laxton, Nottinghamshire.
5. ISABEL DE MERLAY, daughter and co-heiress, born about 1257 (aged 8
in 1265). She was co-heiress in 1268 to her sister, Alice de Merlay,
wife of Robert de Thweng, by which her share of the Merlay estates
increased from a one-third to one-half share. Isabel married (1st)
before 1270 Robert de Eure. He was living in 1271, but died in or
before 1272. She married (2nd) before 7 May 1275 ROBERT DE SOMERVILLE,
Knt., of Wichnor (in Tatenhill), Alrewas, Curborough House (in
Streethay), and Tunstall, Staffordshire, and, in right of his wife, of
Great Benton, Witton Underwood, Horsley, Stanton, and Wingates,
Northumberland, and Knaptoft, Leicestershire, benefactor of Repingdon
and Worksop Priories, son and heir of John de Somerville, Knt., of
Wichnor (in Tatenhill), Curborough House (in Streethay), Tunstall,
Staffordshire, etc. They had six sons, Edmund (clerk), Robert, Roger,
Knt., Adam, Philip, Knt., and John, and two daughters, Joan (wife of
Ralph Cromwell, Knt.) and Isabel. In 1294 he acquired the other half
share of the manor of Burton Agnes, Yorkshire by an exchange with his
wife's nephew, John de Greystoke. He was summoned to serve against
the Welsh in 1277 and 1282 and against the Scots in 1296. In 1290 he
was granted a weekly market and yearly fair in Witton Underwood,
Northumberland, together with free warren in Windegates, Horsley, and
Sheles, Northumberland. SIR ROBERT DE SOMERVILLE died shortly before
17 October 1297. His widow, Isabel, died shortly before Thursday
before Christmas 1300.
Children of Isabel de Merlay, by Robert de Somerville, Knt.:
i. PHILIP DE SOMERVILLE, Knt. [see next].
ii. JOAN DE SOMERVILLE, married RALPH DE CROMWELL, Knt. [see
CROMWELL]. Joan and Ralph are the great-grandparents of Sir Ralph de
Cromwell (died 1398), 1st Lord Cromwell.
6. PHILIP DE SOMERVILLE, Knt., of Wichnor (in Tatenhill), Alrewas,
Newbold, Tunstall, etc., Staffordshire, Witton Underwood,
Northumberland, etc., Knight of the Shire for Staffordshire, Sheriff of
Bedfordshire and Buckinghamshire, younger son, born about 1287 (aged 50
in 1337). He married before 1308 MARGARET DE PIPE, daughter of Thomas
de Pipe, Knt. They had two daughters, Joan and Elizabeth (wife of John
de Stafford). In 1300 his older brother, Edmund de Somerville,
assigned him various lands which had been held in dower by their
mother, Isabel. In 1308 and again in 1312 the Sheriff of Staffordshire
was ordered to distrain Philip and his wife, Margaret, and to produce
them in Court to complete a fine levied at York between William de
Jarpenville, plaintiff, and the said Philip and Margaret, deforciants
of two messuages and lands in Draycott-under-Nedewode, Staffordshire,
as agreed between them. In 1316 Reginald de Leghton and Alice his wife
and others sued him for a messuage and 45 acres of land in Tunstall,
Staffordshire; Philip prayed a view, and the suit was adjourned to the
morrow of St. John the Baptist. In 1317 he sued Edmund de Somerville
in a plea that he should warrant to him a messuage and 45 acres of land
in Tunstall, Staffordshire, which Reginald de Leghton and Alice his
wife, and others claimed. In 1318 Alice widow of William de
Jarpenville recovered a third of two parts of the manor of Draycott,
Staffordshire as dower against him. The same year Reginald de Leghton
and Alice his wife and others sued him for a messuage and 45 acres of
land in Tunstall, Staffordshire; Philip called to warranty Edmund de
Somerville who appeared and warranted the tenements to him. In 1323 he
sued Walter de Montgomery and Joan his wife, Vincent de Gresley, and
others for coming vi et armis to Alrewas, Staffordshire, and forcibly
removing cattle which he had lawfully impounded there, and for beating
and illtreating his servants. In 1324-5 he and Philip de Luttele were
appointed commissioners to establish uniform measures of wine, beer,
and wheat in Staffordshire. His wife, Margaret, was living in 1325.
He was heir in 1337 to his younger brother, Roger de Somerville, Knt.,
of Burton Agnes, Yorkshire. He may be regarded as the second founder
of Balliol College at Oxford University, to which institution he added
new scholars to the number of fellows as well as one chaplain. SIR
PHILIP DE SOMERVILLE died 23 (or 29) January 1355, and was buried at
Burton Agnes, Yorkshire.
7. JOAN DE SOMERVILLE, daughter and co-heiress. She married about 12
February 1325 (date of settlement) RHYS AP GRIFFITH, Knt., of
Llansadwrn in Cantrefmawr and Dryslwyn, Carmarthen and Narberth castles
in Wales, and, in right of his wife, of Wichnor (in Tatenhill),
Alrewas, etc., Staffordshire, Bellasis, Long Benton, Stannington, and
Witton-Underwood, etc., Northumberland, Burton Agnes, Yorkshire,
steward of Cardigan, forester of Glyncothi and Pennant, deputy to the
royal justice of South Wales, sheriff of Carmarthen, steward of
Cantrefmawr, son and heir of Gruffydd ap Hywel ap Gruffydd ab Ednyfed
Fychan, of Llansadwrn, by Nest, daughter of Gwrwared ap Gwilym of
Cemais. He was an adult by 1309. They had two sons, Rhys, Knt., and
Henry, Knt. He was an active organizer of native levies in south-west
Wales and served in the Scottish expeditions and the French campaign.
In 1327 he disobeyed the king's summons to resists the Scots under
Robert Bruce. In 1330 he was involved in the abortive insurrection of
the Earl of Kent. He escaped overseas but was sub subsequently
recalled. He was present at the battle of Crecy. SIR RHYS AP GRIFFITH
died at Carmarthen, Wales 10 May 1356, and was buried at Carmarthen
Priory. In 1371 his widow, Joan, and her son, Rhys, gave seisin of
their wood in Witton Underwood, Northumberland to William Heron, Knt.
Joan died at Stockton, Warwickshire 8 October 1376.
8. RHYS [AP RHYS] AP GRIFFITH, Knt., of Wichnor (in Tatenhill),
Alrewas, Draycott, Newbold, and Tunstall, Staffordshire, Orreby,
Lincolnshire, Bellasis, Long Benton, Stannington, Wingates, and
Witton-Underwood, etc., Northumberland, Stockton, Warwickshire, Burton
Agnes, Yorkshire, son and heir, born about 25 December 1325. He
married (1st) before 1370 ISABEL DE STACKPOLE, daughter and heiress of
Richard de Stackpole, of Stackpole, Angle and Lony (descendant of
Charlemagne). They had one daughter, Joan. He married (2nd) before
1376 MARGARET LA ZOUCHE, daughter of _____ la Zouche. They had two
sons, Thomas, Esq., and Rhys. In 1371 he granted all of his
Northumbrian lands to his brother, Henry ap Griffith. SIR RHYS AP
GRIFFITH died 26 May 1380, and was buried in Polesworth Abbey,
Warwickshire. On 30 May 1380 William le Latimer, Lord Latimer, was
granted the keeping of the manor of Burton Agnes, Yorkshire, late of
Rhys ap Griffith, Knt., to hold until the lawful age of the heir. On
the same date Richard de Ravenser was granted the similar keeping of
the manor of Orreby, Lincolnshire. On 8 June 1380 John Holand, Knt.,
the king's brother, was granted the keeping of all of the lands late
of Rhys ap Griffith, Knt., until the lawful age of the heir. Rhys'
widow, Margaret, married (2nd) after 6 November 1385 William Walsall
(died 1414), of Rushall, Staffordshire, Knight of the Shire for
Staffordshire, Escheator of Shropshire, Staffordshire, and the Welsh
Marsh, Sheriff of Shropshire and Staffordshire, 1377, Sheriff of
Staffordshire, 1381-1383, 1389-1390, 1396-1399, 1406-1407, Constable of
Stafford, Carmarthen and Dynevor castles, Marshal of the Hall to King
Richard II, 1395-1399. They had one daughter, Katherine (wife of
William Grobbere). For most of his adult life, William was actively
employed as an officer of the Crown in the north Midlands, Shropshire
and Wales, where his usefulness was recognized and rewarded. In 1388
he and Margaret bound themselves in recognizances of 205 marks to John,
Lord Neville, joining three years later with Sir Nicholas Stafford to
make a similar undertaking in the sum of 1,000 marks. In 1413 William
and Margaret sued John de Waldegrave and John Depyng, clerk, executors
of the will of Warine Waldegrave for a debt of 40 marks. In 1416 his
widow, Margaret, sued Richard Myners, Esq., of Blakenhale for treading
down and consuming her corn and grass with his cattle to the value of
100s. at Blakenhale. In 1416 Thomas Gyfhard sued her for a debt of 4
marks. She failed to appear, and the Sheriff was ordered to attach
her. In 1419 she sued Nicholas Hubert, yeoman, of Alrewas,
Staffordshire, for breaking into her close at Wichnor, and cutting down
her trees to the value of 100s. In 1425 she sued Robert Ryall, souter,
of Barton under Nedewode for entering her free warren at Wichnor and
taking hares, rabbits, and pheasants. In 1428 she sued Robert Rialle,
corveser, of Barton under Nedewode and others for entering her free
warren at Tunstall and Tatenhill, and cutting down her trees and
underwood, and chasing and taking hares and rabbits, pheasants, and
partridges. In 1430 she sued Roger Chare, butcher, of Barton under
Nedewode and another for breaking into her close and houses at Wichnor.
The same term she sued William Chambre, of Fald, for taking by force
her native, Robert Baker, from Tunstall, and goods and chattels worth
100s., and for entering her free warren at Tunstall, and taking hares
and rabbits, pheasants and partridges. She died testate shortly before
Trinity term 1430, when her executor, William la Zouche, Knt., sued
William de Whichenore, yeoman, to render a reasonable account for the
time he was receiver of the money of Margaret.
Child of Rhys ap Griffith, Knt., by Isabel de Stackpole:
i. JOAN GRIFFITH, married RICHARD VERNON, Knt., of Haddon,
Derbyshire [see VERNON].
Children of Rhys ap Griffith, Knt., by Margaret Zouche:
i. THOMAS GRIFFITH, Esq. [see next].
ii. RHYS GRIFFITH, living 1411.
9. THOMAS GRIFFITH (also known as THOMAS AP RHYS, THOMAS AP GRIFFITH),
Esq., of Wichnor (in Tatenhill), Alrewas, etc., Staffordshire, Witton
Underwood, Northumberland, etc., son and heir, born 19 (or 24) May 1377
(aged 5 in 1382, 19 in 1396). He was heir sometime after 1386 to his
first cousin once removed, Maud de Stafford, wife successively of
Edmund de Vernon and Richard de Stafford, K.B., Lord Stafford, by which
he inherited a 1/4th share of Bellasis, Long Benton, and Stannington,
Northumberland. He was also heir in 1387 to his 1st cousin, Margaret,
wife of William de Carnaby, Knt. (daughter of his uncle, Henry ap
Griffith, Knt.), by which he inherited another 1/4th share in Bellasis,
Long Benton, and Stannington, Northumberland. Thomas married ANNE
BLOUNT, daughter of Walter Blount, Knt., of Barton Blount, Derbyshire,
by Sanche de Ayala, daughter of Diego Gomez de Toledo, Alcalde maior de
Toledo. They had one son, John, Knt. In 1401 he granted the marriage
of Robert Corbet, a minor, to his grandfather, John Corbet. In 1405
Thomas sold all of his Northumbrian property, including the manor of
Witton Underwood, to Roger Thornton, of Newcastle. In 1414 he was
fined £15 for giving liveries against the Statute to Thomas Stokes,
Gent., of Stotfold, and two others. The same year he and many others
were distrained by the Sheriff of Staffordshire for failure to appear
in court to answer for diverse transgressions, extortions, and
contempts. In Trinity term 1431 he sued John Gunstone, yeoman, William
Jones, yeoman, and others in a plea that each of them should render a
reasonable account for the time they were the receiver of his money.
THOMAS GRIFFITH, Esq., died intestate 28 Feb. 1432/3, and was buried in
the chantry of the Blessed Virgin Mary at Alrewas, Staffordshire. In
Trinity term 1435 John Griffith, Knt., administrator of the goods and
chattels of Thomas Griffith, Esq., sued Richard Lowe, Gent., of Coven,
to render a reasonable account for the time he was bailiff of Thomas in
Stafford.
10. JOHN GRIFFITH, Knt., of Wichnor (in Tatenhill), Staffordshire, and
Burton Agnes, Yorkshire, son and heir. He married KATHERINE TYRWHIT
(or TYRWHITT), daughter of Robert Tyrwhit, Knt., of Kettleby,
Lincolnshire. They had two sons, Walter, Knt., and Rhys, and one
daughter, Margaret (wife of Robert Willoughby, Knt.). In 1440 he
unsuccessfully sued Roger Thornton for the manors of Sheles, Wingates,
and Witton, and a moiety of the manors of Bellasis, Killingworth, Long
Benton, Stannington, and Tranwell, Northumberland, all of which Roger
Thornton the elder bought from John's father, Thomas Griffith. His
wife, Katherine, died 1457. SIR JOHN GRIFFITH died 20 June 1471, and
was buried in the church of Tatenhill, Staffordshire.
Children of John Griffith, Knt., by Katherine Tyrwhit:
i. WALTER GRIFFITH, Knt., of Burton Agnes, Yorkshire, son and heir.
He married (1st) 6 November 1435 JOAN (or JANE) NEVILLE. They had two
children, both of whom died in young adulthood. His wife, Joan, was
living in 1457. He married (2nd) about 1463 AGNES CONSTABLE, daughter
of Robert Constable, Knt., of Flamborough, Yorkshire. They had one
son, Walter, Knt., and one daughter, Agnes (wife of Gervase Clifton).
SIR WALTER GRIFFITH died 9 August 1481, and was buried in the church of
Burton Agnes, Yorkshire.
ii. RHYS GRIFFITH, Esq., of Stickford, Lincolnshire, died 1489. He
married _____. They had one daughter, Joan (wife of Lionel Dymoke,
Knt., of Mareham-on-the-Hill, Lincolnshire) [see DYMOKE].
iii. MARGARET GRIFFITH, married ROBERT WILLOUGHBY, Knt., of Wollaton,
Nottinghamshire [see WILLOUGHBY].
John P. Ravilious
Many thanks for that most interesting post.
The most interesting (and evidently new) link I see is at Gen. 4
below [ " ISABEL DE ROOS, married before Hilary Term 1241 ROGER DE
MERLAY, Knt., of Morpeth, ..... " ]. This individual (who m. 2ndly Sir
Adam de Everingham) was previously only known as Isabel.
When you have a chance, if you could post a reference or other
details as to how, or where, this identification was made, that would
be most appreciated.
Pity that this does not add to the ancestry of the Everinghams
.........:<
Cheers,
John
Douglas Richardson wrote:
> Dear Newsgroup ~
>
> Please find below a slightly different Merlay-Somerville-Griffith
> descent than one I posted previously. In this new arrangement, I've
> set forth a line of descent from King William the Lion of Scotland
> through an intermarrage of the Roos and Merlay families.
>
> For interest's sake, I've listed below the numerous 17th Century New
> World immigrants who descend from Isabel de Roos, wife of Sir Roger de
> Merlay, of Morpeth, Northumberland [Generation 4 below]:
>
> 1. Via Joan de Somerville, wife of Ralph de Cromwell, Knt.
>
> William Bladen, Kenelm Cheseldine, Grace Chetwode, William Farrer,
> Muriel Gurdon, Anne & Katherine Marbury, Thomas Owsley, Richard
> Saltonstall, Mary Johanna Somerset.
>
>>>>>>>>>>>> SNIP <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Claud...@aol.com
You state that:
ISABEL DE ROOS, married before Hilary Term 1241 ROGER DE MERLAY,
Knt., of Morpeth, Benton, Killingworth, North Weetslade, South
Weetslade, and Walker, Northumberland, Burton Agnes, Yorkshire, etc.,
2nd but eldest surviving son and heir of Roger de Merley, of Morpeth,
Northumberland, by his 1st wife, Ada, daughter of Duncan, Earl of Fife.
He was of age in 1239. They had four daughters, Mary (wife of Thomas
de Greystoke), Margery (wife of Walter de Bolebec), Alice (wife of
Robert de Thweng), and Isabel. He founded a chantry in Stannington,
Northumberland for the maintenance of one chaplain to say divine
services at the altar of St. Mary for the souls of himself, his
ancestors and successors. In 1257 he was granted a weekly market and a
yearly fair to be held at the manor of Witton Underwood,
Northumberland. About 1257 he confirmed the gift which his cousin,
Hugh Gobion, Knt., made of all his lands in Yeddingham, Yorkshire to
the nuns of Yeddingham. SIR ROGER DE MERLAY died shortly before 4
December 1265. His widow, Isabel, married (2nd) before 1271 Adam de
Everingham, of Laxton, Nottinghamshire.
The cartulary of Newminster lists only one charter concerning Ada daughter of
Duncan, earl of Fife. In that charter she is named as the mother of the
eldest son Ranulf de Merlay. The list of Benefactors of the Abbey listed in the
abbey's calendar makes it appear that Roger de Merlay tertius [as he was known]
was the son of Roger de Merlay's second wife Margery. Ada was given in marriage
to Roger de Merlay circa 1188 when Duncan, earl of Fife was given the
wardship of Roger de Merlay tertius and Duncan paid a fine to marry him to his
daughter who is unnamed in the document.
I also along with John Ravilious would like to know your source for making
Isabella de Roos the wife of Roger de Merlay. I also have never seen the mention
of a fourth daughter Margery de Merlay the wife of of Walter de Bolbec in all
the inquistions and fines surrounding Roger de Merlay's death. Mary de Merlay
married William de Greystoke who died April 17, 1289. There are numerous
documents concerning this family and I will gladly post what I mentioned above.
Regards,
MichaelAnne
Douglas Richardson
The evidence of the parentage of Isabel de Roos, wife successively of
Roger de Merley (III) and Adam de Everingham, comes from a forest plea
dated the Octaves of St. Hilary 1241, which plea reads as follows:
"To his worshipful lord Henry, by the grace of God king of England,
lord of Ireland, duke of Normandy and Aquitaine, and count of Anjou,
[his servant] Thomas of Straton, health and due reverence with
obedience. At another time we made known by letter to you .... that
Sir Robert de Ros had taken in your hand the pleas of herbage, hambling
of dogs and dead wood which belonge to the foresters, where you have no
demesne wood ....
Be it remembered that Sir Roger de Merlay who now is (and others) were
attached by precept of the king and of Sir B. de Lisle, justice of the
forest, for trespass of the forest: whom the foresters saw with bows
and arrows, contrary to the assize of the forest ...
Also there were seen, contrary to the assize of the forest, Richard de
St. Peter, Richard de Duddene (and others), men of Sir Roger de Merlay;
and they were attached for a hind taken at Ladelleie and carried away,
as was presented by the foresters. From all these the king did not
obtain his justice, save only 10 marks whereby Roger de Merlay made
fine secretly, as is said, for himself and for his men aforesaid; and
this by favour of marriage between the said Roger and the daughter of
Robert de Ros already mentioned." [Reference: Northumberland Pleas from
the Curia Regis and Assize Rolls, 1198-1272 (Pubs. of the Newcastle
upon Tyne Records Committee 2) (1922:): 122-123].
The plea further mentions two other marriages which were arranged
between the children of Sir Roger Bertram and Sir Robert de Roos:
"Also Sir Roger Bertram's men did chase in Chivele in the king's forest
and take a hind and a fawn buck, after the eyre of the justics of the
forest ... They are still to be attached, and, if they were not
attached, they and three hounds of Sir Roger Bertram were taken by the
foresters and by several men of those parts ... Nor, by reason of such
conspiracy and such releases have the foresters been able to do their
office and the king's advantage; and this because the marriages were
pre-arranged, and have no been made, between the son and heir of Sir
Roger [Bertram] and a daughter of Sir Robert [de Ros] on the one part,
and on the other between the son and heir of Sir Robert [de Ros] and a
daughter of Sir Roger [Bertram]." [Reference: Northumberland Pleas from
the Curia Regis and Assize Rolls, 1198-1272 (Pubs. of the Newcastle
upon Tyne Records Committee 2) (1922:)125].
The same Northumberland Pleas volume cited above also shows that
Isabel, widow of Roger de Merlay, was still a widow in 1266:
Date: 1266 - "Isabel who was the wife of Roger de Merlay, by her
attorney, demands v. Richard son of Nicholas the third part of 2 tofts
and 4 bovates of land with the appurtenances in Saltwyk, and v. Walter
of Wytton the third part of 20 acres of land with the appurtenances in
Sheles, and v. Thomas son of William the third part of a carucate of
land with the appurtenances in Stainton, and the third part of 40 acres
of land with appurtenances in Sheles, and v. Ralph Gybyon the third
part of 100 acres of land with the appurtenances in Scheles, as her
dower, etc. [Reference: Northumberland Pleas from the Curia Regis and
Assize Rolls, 1198-1272 (Pubs. of the Newcastle upon Tyne Records
Committee 2) (1922:): 257].
The identification of the parentage of Isabel de Roos, wife of Roger de
Merlay and Adam de Everingham, is a new addition to Complete Peerage, 5
(1926): 185, footnote a (sub Everingham), which footnote reads as
follows:
"Adam [de Everingham] married 2ndly before May 1270, Isabel, widow of
Roger de Merley, of Morpeth, Northumberland (who d.s.p.m. shortly
before 4 Dec. 1265 - Ch. Inq. p.m., Henry III, file 33, no. 10). She
survived Adam, and her dower of his lands was ordered to be assigned, 9
Dec. 1280 (Fine Roll, 54 Henry III, m. 12: Close Rolls, 7 Edward I, m.
4; 9 Edward I, m. 10)."
The above should now read "Adam [de Everingham} married 2ndly after
1266 and before May 1270, Isabel, widow of Roger de Merlay, of Morpeth,
Northumberland (who d.s.p.m. shortly before 4 Dec. 1265 - Ch. Inq.
p.m., Henry III, file 33, no. 10), and daughter of Robert de Roos,
Knt., of Wark, Northumberland (Northumberland Pleas from the Curia
Regis and Assize Rolls, 1198-1272, pub. 1922, pp.122-123, 257). She
survived Adam, and her dower of his lands was ordered to be assigned, 9
Dec. 1280 (Fine Roll, 54 Henry III, m. 12: Close Rolls, 7 Edward I, m.
4; 9 Edward I, m. 10)."
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Website: www.royalancestry.net
WJho...@aol.com
royala...@msn.com writes:
<< 1. WILLIAM THE LION, King of Scotland, died 1214. By a mistress,
_____, daughter of Richard Avenel, he had one illegitimate daughter,
Isabel. >>
Living Descendents of Blood Royal, Vol 2, "William, King of Scotland", pg xxv
Says he died at Stirling, and calls his wife also Isabel
Will Johnson
WJho...@aol.com
royala...@msn.com writes:
<< 4. ISABEL DE ROOS, married before Hilary Term 1241 ROGER DE MERLAY,
Knt., of Morpeth, Benton, Killingworth, North Weetslade, South
Weetslade, and Walker, Northumberland, Burton Agnes, Yorkshire, etc.,
2nd but eldest surviving son and heir of Roger de Merley, of Morpeth,
Northumberland, by his 1st wife, Ada, daughter of Duncan, Earl of Fife.
He was of age in 1239. They had four daughters, Mary (wife of Thomas
de Greystoke), Margery (wife of Walter de Bolebec), Alice (wife of
Robert de Thweng), and Isabel. >>
A few days ago (GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com 2005-11-01) was not this husband
named as "William de Greystoke" instead of Thomas ?
Thanks
Will Johnson
WJho...@aol.com
royala...@msn.com writes:
<< 5. ISABEL DE MERLAY, daughter and co-heiress, born about 1257 (aged 8
in 1265). She was co-heiress in 1268 to her sister, >>
On her age I quote
Date: 11/2/05 2:47:37 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: peter...@ntlworld.com (Peter Sutton)
To: GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com
To avoid any further confusion:
1. At an inquest held on the Tuesday after the Purification 52 HIII Isabel de
Merlay was stated to be aged 12 and one of the heirs of her sister Alice de
Merlay. As Isabel is called "de Merlay" presumably she was not married at this
date. Alice obviously died sometime before this date.
Douglas Richardson
Claud...@aol.com wrote:
> The cartulary of Newminster lists only one charter concerning Ada daughter of
> Duncan, earl of Fife. In that charter she is named as the mother of the
> eldest son Ranulf de Merlay. The list of Benefactors of the Abbey listed in the
> abbey's calendar makes it appear that Roger de Merlay tertius [as he was known]
> was the son of Roger de Merlay's second wife Margery.
> Regards,
> MichaelAnne
Dear MichaelAnne ~
The surviving records show that Margery de Umfreville, 2nd wife of
Roger de Merlay (II), died without issue.
Douglas Richardson
The correct name of Mary de Merlay's husband is William de Greystoke.
William de Greystoke was the son of Thomas de Greystoke.
DR
Douglas Richardson
In my earlier account of the children of Sir Roger de Merlay (III)
(died 1265) and his wife, Isabel de Roos, I stated that this couple had
four daughters, among them Mary and Margery. Both daughters are named
with their respective husbands on a pedigree chart of the Merlay family
found in Hedley's usually reliable History of Northumberland, pg. 197.
Actually it would appear that Mary and Margery are the same person.
This is proven by an interesting article on the Greystoke family
entitled "Some Extinct Cumberland Families, IV: The Greystokes" by
James Wilson, which article was published in The Ancestor, 6 (1903):
121-134.
On pages 127-128 of this article, the marriage of Mary de Merlay and
William de Greystoke is discussed:
"William de Greystoke, brother and heir of the aforesaid Robert, did
homage in 1264 for his brother's lands. With Mary his wife, sometimes
called Margery or Margaret, eldest daughter and co-heir of Roger de
Merlay, who was born about 1242, he obtained large possessions in
Northumberland, including a moiety of the barony of Morpeth. At the
assizes held in Newcastle in 1256, William [de Greystoke] impleaded
Hugh de Bolebec for dowry settled upon Mary his wife on 6 February,
1253, at the door of the church of Morpeth, by her first husband,
Walter de Bolebec, Hugh's son and heir. As the contracting parties had
been under age at the time of Mary's first marrage, an agreement was
effected out of court. In 1268 William did homage for his wife's
possessions as the sister and co-heir of Alice de Merlay, lately
deceased. With the moiety of the Merlay lands came several suits at
law. William de Greystoke was summoned to perform military service
against the Welsh in 1277 when he was represented by two knighrs for
his own inheritance and two knights for that of his wife. In 1282 he
was summoned to serve in person, and in 1289 he departed this life."
END OF QUOTE.
As indicated by the article on the Greystoke family, it would appear
that Mary de Merlay married (1st) 6 February 1253 Walter de Bolebec;
and (2nd) before 1256 William de Greystoke. My own research indicates
that her correct name was Mary de Merlay, not Margery or Margaret.
Among other records, I find that she is repeatedly called Mary in
various lawsuits filed in different years which are mentioned in the
book, Northumberland Pleas, 1198-1272 (Pubs. of the Newcastle upon Tyne
Records Comm. 2) (1922).
Chris Phillips
> The identification of the parentage of Isabel de Roos, wife of Roger de
> Merlay and Adam de Everingham, is a new addition to Complete Peerage, 5
> (1926): 185, footnote a (sub Everingham), which footnote reads as
> follows:
>
> "Adam [de Everingham] married 2ndly before May 1270, Isabel, widow of
> Roger de Merley, of Morpeth, Northumberland (who d.s.p.m. shortly
> before 4 Dec. 1265 - Ch. Inq. p.m., Henry III, file 33, no. 10). She
> survived Adam, and her dower of his lands was ordered to be assigned, 9
> Dec. 1280 (Fine Roll, 54 Henry III, m. 12: Close Rolls, 7 Edward I, m.
> 4; 9 Edward I, m. 10)."
>
> The above should now read "Adam [de Everingham} married 2ndly after
> 1266 and before May 1270, Isabel, widow of Roger de Merlay, of Morpeth,
> Northumberland (who d.s.p.m. shortly before 4 Dec. 1265 - Ch. Inq.
> p.m., Henry III, file 33, no. 10), and daughter of Robert de Roos,
> Knt., of Wark, Northumberland (Northumberland Pleas from the Curia
> Regis and Assize Rolls, 1198-1272, pub. 1922, pp.122-123, 257). She
> survived Adam, and her dower of his lands was ordered to be assigned, 9
> Dec. 1280 (Fine Roll, 54 Henry III, m. 12: Close Rolls, 7 Edward I, m.
> 4; 9 Edward I, m. 10)."
Thank you for posting this interesting evidence.
Is there any way we can be sure that the daughter of Robert de Ros, to whom
Roger de Merlay was married in 1241, was identical with Isabel, who was
Roger's widow?
Chris Phillips
John P. Ravilious
I see no direct evidence to prove this, but there is a great
deal of other evidence in hand to demonstrate th:
1) The issue of Roger de Merlay, according to details I extracted
previously from his IPM [19 Jan 1265/66 [writ dated at Westminster, 4
Dec 50 Hen. III (1265) - from Brown, Yorks. Inqs. I:99-102]:
A) Mary, aged 24 and more [born bef 4 Dec 1241]
B) Isabella, aged 10 and more [born bef 4 Dec 1255]
C) Alice, aged 8 and more [born bef 4 Dec 1257]
2) We know from the evidence Doug presented from the forest plea
of 1241 [Northumberland Pleas from the Curia Regis and Assize Rolls,
1198-1272 (Pubs. of the Newcastle upon Tyne Records Committee 2)
(1922:): 122-123] that Roger de Merlay was married, in 1241 or before,
to the daughter (unnamed) of Sir Robert de Ros of Wark (d. 1269).
3) The mother of Roger de Merlay was either Margery (MichaelAnne)
or Ada (Douglas), and the name Isabel/Isabella is not readily in
evidence at this or an either generation as I have found so far (on the
Merlay side). It would appear the second daughter, Isabel/Isabella,
was named for her mother, Isabel de Ros (who was named for her paternal
grandmother Isabel, 'natural' dau. of King William of Scots).
4) Alice de Merlay, the youngest daughter, was married to (or at
least contracted to marry) Robert de Thweng (dvp 1279), eldest son and
heir of Sir Marmaduke de Thweng (d. 1279) by his wife Lucy de Brus.
This was evidently an arranged link bringing the Thwengs closer to both
the de Brus and de Ros families, of a sort we find quite frequently in
medieval families where two spouses (Robert de Ros of Wark and Margaret
de Brus) seek to link their kin closer together:
A. Robert de Thweng was the nephew of Margaret de Brus, wife
of Robert de Ros of Wark (brother of Isabel de Ros, the wife of Roger
de Merlay).
B. Alice de Merlay, evidently was the daughter of Isabel de
Ros, and therefore niece of Robert de Ros (the husband of Margaret de
Brus).
The eldest daughter, Mary, was born after this apparent
Merlay-Ros marriage. Isabella is evidently named for her mother,
Isabel de Ros; and Alice de Merlay's marriage, while not proving her
mother was Isabel de Ros, is strongly suggestive of this identification
being correct.
While finding a direct statement would be best, given the pieces
we have it is reasonable to identify the issue of Roger de Merlay as
that of his wife, the daughter of Robert de Ros. It is also reasonable
to infer that her name was Isabel or Isabella, and therefore (more
likely than not) identical with Isabel, the widow of Roger de Merlay.
Cheers,
John
Chris Phillips
> While finding a direct statement would be best, given the pieces
> we have it is reasonable to identify the issue of Roger de Merlay as
> that of his wife, the daughter of Robert de Ros. It is also reasonable
> to infer that her name was Isabel or Isabella, and therefore (more
> likely than not) identical with Isabel, the widow of Roger de Merlay.
Thanks for posting these arguments. It may be so, though personally I'd be
cautious of pushing the onomastic part of the argument too far for a name as
common as Isabel.
Another interesting ramification of your circumstantial evidence is that
Robert de Everingham, the grandson of Adam, married Lucy, the daughter and
heir of Robert de Thweng [CP v 185 note b]. On your view, this would be a
marriage between the daughter of Isabel's son-in-law (husband of her
daughter Alice by her first marriage) and the son of her stepson by her
second marriage.
Chris Phillips
Douglas Richardson
Thank you for the good review of the evidence. I should point out,
however, that Sir Roger de Merlay III (died 1265) can not possibly be
the son of Margery de Umfreville.
Following Margery de Umfreville's death, there was an inquisition taken
at the feast of St. Peter in Cathedra in 20 Edward I (that is, 22
February 1292). The jurors stated that Richard de Umfreville
(grandfather of Gilbert de Umfreville who now is) gave the manor of
Barrasford, Northumberland to Roger de Merlay [II] in free marriage
with Margery his daughter and to their heirs of the body of Margery.
The jurors further stated that Margery died without issue ("Margeria
obiit sine herede de corpore suo.") and that the manor of Barrasford
should revert to Gilbert de Umfreville who now is who is the heir of
Richard de Umfreville his grandfather. A transcript of the full
inquisition in Latin is printed in John Hodgson, History of
Northumberland, Part II, Vol. II (1832): 470.
As for the date of the marriage of Roger de Merley II and Margery de
Umfreville, I show that Margery's father, Richard de Umfreville, died
before Nov. 1226 and that Roger de Merlay II died in 1239. Thus we can
say for certain that the marriage occurred sometime before November
1226, by which date Richard de Umfreville had granted the manor of
Barrasford to Roger in free marriage with Isabel in his daughter.
Lastly, I might add that the Latin words "corpore suo" [her body]
refers back to Margery's body, which Margery is the subject of the
sentence.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Website: www.royalancestry.net
WJho...@aol.com
to have been commissioned in 1600-1610 time period ( I forgot) pertaining to
the Griffith/Somerville alliance is now available through my website.
Go here http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~wjhonson/Royals/
and click on the link for
Griffith1.jpg or the one for
Griffith2.tif
I haven't viewed the TIF as they tend to make my system throw a fit.
The Jpg on my 5-year-old computer takes about two minutes to load, just to
warn you all.
So now you can see for yourself the shields that have been mentioned.
Will Johnson
WJho...@aol.com
royala...@msn.com writes:
<< Mary de Merlay married (1st) 6 February 1253 Walter de Bolebec;
and (2nd) before 1256 William de Greystoke. My own research indicates
that her correct name was Mary de Merlay, not Margery or Margaret.
Among other records, >>
*In* or before 1256
This does however, if we accept that she was born "abt 1242" allow us to put
a more definite birth range on her mother Isabel de Ros. My own est being
1208/1229
Isabel's father was "Justice of the King's Bench" in 1230 so if someone wants
to hazard a guess on how old a "Justice" needs to be, that might help pin his
age down more.
Will Johnson
David Armstrong
I printed the JPEG of the Merlay Sommerville thing from your web site, just
for my own edfication. Could you tell me more about it? Would such a thing
have been in private hands? Does "Commissioned" mean that they hired a
scribe to produce it? are there other such thing laying around?
My wife connects with all these lines of nobility and I want to learn all
that I can. Thanks in advance!
Best Regards
David Armstrong
Elkins, WV
----- Original Message -----
From: <WJho...@aol.com>
To: <GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 3:39 PM
Subject: Re: Merlay-Somerville-Griffith descent from King William the Lion
of Scotland
WJho...@aol.com
hera...@meer.net writes:
<< I printed the JPEG of the Merlay Sommerville thing from your web site,
just
for my own edfication. Could you tell me more about it? Would such a thing
have been in private hands? Does "Commissioned" mean that they hired a
scribe to produce it? are there other such thing laying around? >>
Jeff Chipman is the person perhaps who can best answer this, as he is the one
who sent me the copy I'm showing on the web.
Will Johnson
mhol...@mac.com
Fitz Ralph (de Greystoke), the 2nd Lord Fitzwilliam who married
Elizabeth de Neville?
Jwc...@aol.com
The 1st Baron Fitz william, Ralph FItz William was the
father of the 2nd Lord Fitz william whose son Ralph, 3rd Lord Fitz william also
was granted the tittle of 1st Lord Greystoke. He married Alice de Audley.
(who married 2nd Ralph, 2nd Lord Greystoke) son of William Fitz ralph by his
wife Joan, daughter of Thomas de Greystoke, but I`m unsure if William de
Greystoke`s relationship to Thomas.
Sincerely,
James W Cummings
Dixmont, Maine USA
Chris Phillips
> A jpg of a scan of a photocopy of a photograph of two pages from a roll,
said
> to have been commissioned in 1600-1610 time period ( I forgot) pertaining
to
> the Griffith/Somerville alliance is now available through my website.
>
> Go here http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~wjhonson/Royals/
> and click on the link for
> Griffith1.jpg or the one for
> Griffith2.tif
Thank you for posting the image of the pedigree.
Maybe I shouldn't ask, but can anyone else see this supposed lozenge that
there was all the discussion about? I can't see anything that looks like a
lozenge, but maybe I'm not looking in the right place.
Chris Phillips
Tim Powys-Lybbe
Agreed. I beleive it was supposed to have been on the two achievements
on the face of the "Stately tombe", but both are quartered arms with a
central escutcheon and in view of the earlyish date I don't think we
can even call the latter escutcheons of pretence.
Much to most useful parts of the images (there are two separate images
in these pictures) are the written details of the people, in the
roundels.
--
Tim Powys-Lybbe t...@powys.org
For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org
mj...@btinternet.com
Tim Powys-Lybbe schrieb:
> In message of 19 Nov, "Chris Phillips" <c...@medievalgenealogy.org.uk> wrote:
> >
> > Maybe I shouldn't ask, but can anyone else see this supposed lozenge
> > that there was all the discussion about? I can't see anything that
> > looks like a lozenge, but maybe I'm not looking in the right place.
>
> Agreed. I beleive it was supposed to have been on the two achievements
> on the face of the "Stately tombe", but both are quartered arms with a
> central escutcheon and in view of the earlyish date I don't think we
> can even call the latter escutcheons of pretence.
I concur entirely.
Thanks to Will for hosting and posting, and to Jeff for providing the
copy.
MAR
Nathaniel Taylor
> A jpg of a scan of a photocopy of a photograph of two pages from a roll, said
> to have been commissioned in 1600-1610 time period ( I forgot) pertaining to
> the Griffith/Somerville alliance is now available through my website.
>
> Go here http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~wjhonson/Royals/
> and click on the link for
> Griffith1.jpg or the one for
> Griffith2.tif
Will, thanks for this. The quality of the scan isn't good, but I agree
with Chris & al. that the whole lozenge discussion was not well grounded
in these images. But I'm always happy to see manuscripts like this. I
gather that this picture derives from one of the photographs
accompanying the 1948 description in the library of the Society of
Antiquaries of London. From their catalogue (A2A):
> FILE - GRIFFITH FAMILY. - ref. SAL/MS/774 - date: 1948
> [from Scope and Content] Description by Hugh Stanford London of an
> illuminated pedigree of the Griffith family of Burton Agnes, East Yorks.,
> with a note by Francis Thynne, Lancaster Herald, dated 1 Aug. 1604; 10 Jan.
> 1948 (fol. 5v). The pedigree was lent by Capt. Marcus Wickham-Boynton,
> descendant of the Griffiths of Wicknor, Staffs., and Burton Agnes, for
> exhibition at SA, 8 Jan. 1948 (A.J., 28 (1948), 113). The original is
> illustrated by painted figures of knights, shields, drawings of seals on
> charters. The present description is accompanied by three photographs of
> sections of the pedigree. See also SAL/MSS/931/2, 936.
<...>
> CORRESPONDENCE AND PAPERS - ref. SAL/MS/931/2
> [from Scope and Content] ... ;- Griffith
> family, genealogical and heraldic notes, and photographs from a pedigree
> exhibited to SA (see SAL/MSS/774 and SAL/MS/936), c. 1948. ...
I guess the SAL only includes a couple of photographs, not a good
reproduction of the whole. Do you (or does JeffChip9) have better
images of the original object? What is its fate since 1948?
Nat Taylor
a genealogist's sketchbook:
http://home.earthlink.net/~nathanieltaylor/leaves/
my children's 17th-century American immigrant ancestors:
http://home.earthlink.net/~nathanieltaylor/leaves/immigrantsa.htm
Douglas Richardson
Thank you for posting a copy of the drawing of the table tomb of Sir
Walter Griffith and his wife, Joan (or Jane) Neville, found in the
church of Burton Agnes, Yorkshire. Much appreciated.
Unfortunately, the image you have posted is not as clear as the copy
which Jeff Chipman sent me privately. In my copy, I can make out that
there is a small shield which is placed in the center of the larger
shield which contains Joan Neville's arms. The smaller shield displays
one coat of arms, which has a repeating pattern. The pattern appears
to be either vairy or checky. My guess is that it is vairy, perhaps
for Ferrers. But this is purely a guess.
According to Coat of Arms 8 (1965): 251-255, the arms of Joan
Neville's maternal grandfather, Robert de Ferrers, were as follows:
Vairy or and gules, a lion passant guardant of the first in the dexter
canton. I see no canton in the small shield on Joan Neville's tomb.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Website: www.royalancestry.net
WJho...@aol.com
nathani...@earthlink.net writes:
<< I guess the SAL only includes a couple of photographs, not a good
reproduction of the whole. Do you (or does JeffChip9) have better
images of the original object? What is its fate since 1948? >>
Jeff does, but I don't. On my copy its rather hard to read whats in the
roundels. It would be nice to have a transcription of that.
Will
Tim Powys-Lybbe
Here goes:
Above the tomb is a aquare with these words in it:
This Stately tombe of Mibba ... This is a picture of Sir Walter
Griffith knight & Joan Neuill his wife no 3 (?) there [their] young
sonne and daughter who (?) died ... tender years is yet ... ...
Burton.
Now for the pedigree, starting with Sir Joh Griffith and his wife
Katherin, all in squares rther than the circles of the original:
(As ever, ensure you have set your font to fixed, eg Courier.)
_______________________ ______________________
| | | |
| Sr John Griffith of | | Katherin daughter of |
| ??? and Anneys Barton | | Sir Robert Tyrwyrthe |
| Knight died in the 20 | | of Kenellry in the |
| of June 11 Ed 4 in |======| Countye of Linclone |
| the yeare of Christ | | | Knight. She died in |
| 1471 | | | ye yeare of Christ |
| | | | 1457 (?) |
|_______________________| | |______________________|
|
|
|
(Arms of Griffith impaling those of Tyrwyrthe)
|
___________________________________|
| |
| |
| |
__|_____________ _______________ _|_______________ _______________
| | | | | | | |
| Margaret dau- | | Jane daughter | | Sr Walter Grif- | | Agnes daugh- |
| ghter of Sr | | of Raphe Neu- | | fith of Anneys | | ter of Sr Rob-|
| John Griffith | | ille Knight |=| Burton in York- |=| ert Constable |=
| married to Rob-| | and of his | | shire died in | | of Flamborowe |
| ert Willoughbye| | wife Marye | | the Twentye one | | Knight after |
| of Wollantone | | daughter of | | yeare of King | | married to Sr |
| in Nottingham- | | Joane Countess| | Edward ye 4 in | | Gervase Clif- |
| shire Knight | | of Westmorland| | ye yeare of | | tone Knight |
| 29.H.6 in ye | | Daughter of | | Christ 1481 on | | being his sec-|
| yeare of Christ| | John of Gaunt | | ye 9 of August | | ond wife. Shee|
| 1450 | | Duke of Lan- | | | | was widdowe |
| | | caster & of | | | | ye 22 Ed 4 |
| | | her husband | | | | |
| | | Sr Robert | | | | |
| | | Ferrers | | | | |
|________________| |_______________| |_________________| |_______________|
This Agnes died
ye 23 of January
in ye yeare of
Christ 1505
and ...
There are lines to show that Sir Walter Griffith and each of his wives
had children. The roundel for Sir Gervase Clifton on the right is
incomplete so I have not attempted to transcribe it.
I do not have a decent image for the lower of the two photographs so
there is no transcription of that.
Chris Phillips
> Here goes:
I've added a few attempts to fill in the gaps
> Above the tomb is a aquare with these words in it:
>
> This Stately tombe of Mibba ... This is a picture of Sir Walter
> Griffith knight & Joan Neuill his wife no 3 (?) there [their] young
> sonne and daughter who (?) died ... tender years is yet ... ...
> Burton.
Could it be a tombe "of Alabastre" or something like that? Then possibly
"wth th ... picture"?
After "his wife" I reckon "wth there yonge sonne & doughter wch died in
there tender yeres is yet in this forme to be seene in [?]the church of
A[nn]eys Burton"
> Now for the pedigree, starting with Sir Joh Griffith and his wife
> Katherin, all in squares rther than the circles of the original:
>
> (As ever, ensure you have set your font to fixed, eg Courier.)
>
>
> _______________________ ______________________
> | | | |
> | Sr John Griffith of | | Katherin daughter of |
> | ??? and Anneys Barton | | Sir Robert Tyrwyrthe |
> | Knight died in the 20 | | of Kenellry in the |
> | of June 11 Ed 4 in |======| Countye of Linclone |
> | the yeare of Christ | | | Knight. She died in |
> | 1471 | | | ye yeare of Christ |
> | | | | 1457 (?) |
> |_______________________| | |______________________|
> |
I think Sir John is of "Wichnor" [Wychnor, Staffs] and Tyrwyrthe is of
"Kettelby".
Just a couple of fussy points for Margaret's text - I think her husband is
"Willughbye of Wollatone".
Chris Phillips
Chris Phillips
> Could it be a tombe "of Alabastre" or something like that? Then possibly
> "wth th ... picture"?
Thanks to Tim for providing me with a clearer version of the image off-list.
I reckon it says "of Al?blaster w[i]th theis [these] pictures" - the ? is
probably an "e".
Chris Phillips
Douglas Richardson
The following transcript gives the text of the Griffith drawing with
the accompanying family pedigree. I have added a few explanatory words
in brackets.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Website: www.royalancestry.net
+ + + + + + + + + + + + +
[Above the drawing of the table tomb of Sir Walter Griffith and his
wife Joan Neville is a square with these words in it:]
"This stately tombe of Aliblaster with theis pictures of Sir Walter
Griffith knight & Joane Nevill his wife with there yonge
sonne & daughter which died in there tender yeres is yet in ?this?
forme to be seene in the church of Anneys Burton."
[The Griffith pedigree:]
"Sir John Griffith of Wichnor and Anneys Burton Knight died in the 20
of June 11 Ed. 4 in the yeare of Christ 1471. [His wife] Katherin
Daughter of Sir Robert Tyrwytthe of Kettellby in the Countye of
Linclone Knight. She died in ye yeare of Christ 1457."
[Their Children:]
"Margaret Daughter of Sir John Griffith maried to Sir Robert Willughbye
of Wollatone in Nottingham shire Knight 29 H. 6 in ye yeare of Christ
1450."
"Sir Walter Griffith of Anneys Burtone in Yorkshire Knight died in the
Twentye one yeare of King Edward ye 4 in ye yeare of Christ 1481 on ye
9 of August. [He married 1st] Jane Daughter of Raphe Neville Knight
and of his wife Marye Daughter of Joane Countess of Westmorland
Daughter of John of Gaunt Duke of Lancaster & of her husband Sir Robert
Ferrers. [He married 2nd] Agnes Daughter of Sir Robert Constable of
Flamborowe Knight after maried to Sir Gervase Clyftone Knight being his
second wife. Shee was widdowe ye 22 Ed. 4. This Agnes died ye 23 of
January in ye yeare of Christ 1505 and was ..."
jeffchip9
I wish you had waited until I received the 1471 IPM of Sir John
Griffith before writing a paragraph on him in your "William the Lion
descent" post. The IPM will be in latin, and since I do not know
latin, what I want to do is scan it and then email it to several people
who can translate it (I was rather hoping you would be one of them,
along with Peter Sutton and Chris Phillips, who Tim Powys-Libbe said
were more than capable of rendering it, if it's alright with them).
This IPM aparently hasn't been translated before, although Carus Vale
Collier did cite it (correctly) in his book on the Boyntons and I was
able to locate it at Kew. Collier, of course, would have been working
from a handwritten copy; no copy machines in 1914. At this point, I
feel you're probably right about the Edward III descent, but hopefully
the IPM will answer a lot of questions.
On a related matter, The University of Hull, which has a lot of
Griffith and Collier material, has informed me they do not have the
1604 Griffith scroll. It's probably still in the possession of
relatives of Capt. Marcus Wickham-Boynton and I have no idea how to
contact them, so there you go.
Although the Griffiths are just one line of Diana (Skipwith) Dale, and
I knew little about them until a couple of months ago, I am interested
to find that Diana was a descendant of Sancha de Ayala and has another
William the Lion line. I hope that once the IPM of Sir John Griffith
is translated, you will consider putting the Griffith/Somerville/Merlay
families in your "baronial book." They are an interesting family
group.
I am glad that you solved the Maude de Roos/John de Welles marriage,
and your Browne pedigree to Kempe in PA3 and MCA is correct (I think
Walter Browne, writing in the latter half of the 16th knew what he was
talking about, and the chronology, far from being suspect, is actually
very good). I am also glad that you changed your estimate of Cardinal
Henry Beaufort's "daughter" Joan to being "alleged." I examined one of
those lines in connection with a Danvers family, and found that the
Cardinal never actually akcnowledged Joan himself. All of those lines
should be labelled "unproven," and I was disappointed to find that Gary
Boyd Roberts said he was "probably" a descendant of one and put several
in RD600.
I should have the IPM by the middle of next month.
Jeff Chipman