SIR JOHN PULTENEY
Aucht...@aol.com
Hi Leo and List,
Do any of you have information on Sir John Pulteney (1290-1349) "Richest
London merchant of the 14th century? Grandson of Hugh Pulteney of Pulteney
(Leiceister)?
It states in WHO's WHO in MEDIEVAL ENGLAND that: "He was the son of Adam
Neale of Clipston (Sussex)... of gentry stock, but apprenticed as a draper.
By 1330 he was a substantial merchant...had a fulling mill at Stepnep,
....dealt in meat and grain and had 258 pounds worth in store at his death and
high finance."
It is stated that he, like William de la Pole (another relative of mine)
lent money to the king. He was Alderman in London from 1327-38, and had three
mairalties in 1331-2. Escheator in 1334 and 1337. Knighted by Edward III in
1339, and commissioner of Oyer terminer in London area. Justice of the Peace
in Middlesex/
Trade was considered socially demeaning in his time, but he made his
fortune that way. At his death he possessed 23 manors in five counties and
kept land in Middlesex, Kent, Cambridgeshire, Leiscestershire, Warwick,
WSuffolk, and London. (Pulteney Inn in London - House of the Black Prince).
I am trying to connect him with MARGARET PULTENEY, wife of Sir Thomas
Paine. Is there a connection? The Pulteney name comes into this tree
(PAYNE/PAINE) twice( also ELIZABETH MARGARET PULTNEY. I am not sure how these
might line up...maybe someone can tell me IF there is a connection?
Leo van de Pas
Dear Maggie,
Sorry, I have no medieval Pulteneys, however, Burke's extinct
Peerage has a Pulteney family who became Earls of Bath. The entry
starts with :
Sir William Pulteney, Knt. of Misterton, co.Leicester, (of very ancient
descent), one of the leading members of the House of Commons, temp
Charles II. One of his daughters married a son of Charles II.
I have looked in Landed Gentry and there was a family but they were
Pulteneys by adoption and also much too late.
Sorry I cannot help---I hope others can.
Leo van de Pas
Doug Holmes
At 05:17 5.6.1998 -0700, Aucht...@aol.com wrote:
> I am trying to connect him with MARGARET PULTENEY, wife of Sir Thomas
>Paine. Is there a connection? The Pulteney name comes into this tree
>(PAYNE/PAINE) twice( also ELIZABETH MARGARET PULTNEY. I am not sure how
these
>might line up...maybe someone can tell me IF there is a connection?
This reminds me that I am interested in one Thomas Allen Paine, born, I
estimate, in 1355 in England. He was secretary to Philippa of Lancaster
when she went to Portugal to marry Joao I in 1387 (that date is the basis
of my estimate on his year of birth).
The name PAINE/PAYNE changed to PAIM (pronounced PA-EEN) in Portugal and
the family figured majorly in the history of the Azores, especially the
island of Terceira.
Does anyone know who the ancestors of this Thomas Allen Paine were? At
least one Portuguese reference corrupts his name to "Chomaly Paim" (pg.414
of Armorial Lusitano).
Thanks,
Doug
CTSc...@aol.com
Please let us know the author of Who's Who In Medieval England, including
publishing date and any other data you have on it. Would this be available in
a local library or thru inter-library loan?
Thanks for your help.
Charlotte
Doug Holmes
Since no one seemed to know about Thomas Allen Paine, below, perhaps a clue
to his identity comes from the name of his son, Valentine Paine, who
married a Portuguese woman named Beatriz (or Brites) de Vasconcellos
Badilho. This Valentine was a "fidalgo" of King Duarte of Portugal.
Perhaps Valentine was a name coming from ancestors of Thomas Allen Paine
and someone doing lots of Paine/Payne, etc, research in England might
remember seeing this more unique name of Valentine.
I don't know whether Thomas Allen Paine brought a wife to Portugal or
married a Portuguese woman once he settled there. That would be important
since then Valentine would surely be a name coming from England and not
from the possibly Portuguese spouse of Thomas.
Doug
ps- In regards to the corruption of his name to "Chomaly" I think I have
the reason. For instance, who we now refer to as Pedro Annes was formerly
written as Pedrannes in the 1500s and probably before (see old spellings of
famous people like Pedro Annes do Canto). So Thomas Allen could conceivably
become "Thomasallen > Chomallen > Chomaly.....
Maud Lacy
do...@dholmes.com (Doug Holmes) on Sat, Jun 6, 1998 13:45 EDT writes:
>Since no one seemed to know about Thomas Allen Paine, below, perhaps a clue
>to his identity comes from the name of his son, Valentine Paine,
<< snip >>
>>This reminds me that I am interested in one Thomas Allen Paine, born, I
>>estimate, in 1355 in England. He was secretary to Philippa of Lancaster
>>when she went to Portugal to marry Joao I in 1387 (that date is the basis
>>of my estimate on his year of birth).
>>
<< snip>>
Just a comment regarding the double name (middle name), which also might
provide a clue:
There may be other instances of 2 given names in 1355, but not everyone even
had a surname at that time, and I have not encountered any "middle names" that
early in England. There are, however, several instances of [e.g.] Thomas Allen
alias Paine.
Mike Gallafent
In article <7481aacd...@aol.com>, Aucht...@aol.com writes
>Hi Leo and List,
>
> Do any of you have information on Sir John Pulteney (1290-1349) "Richest
>London merchant of the 14th century? Grandson of Hugh Pulteney of Pulteney
>(Leiceister)?
>It states in WHO's WHO in MEDIEVAL ENGLAND that: "He was the son of Adam
>Neale of Clipston (Sussex)... of gentry stock, but apprenticed as a draper.
>By 1330 he was a substantial merchant...had a fulling mill at Stepnep,
>....dealt in meat and grain and had 258 pounds worth in store at his death and
>high finance."
>
> It is stated that he, like William de la Pole (another relative of mine)
>lent money to the king. He was Alderman in London from 1327-38, and had three
>mairalties in 1331-2. Escheator in 1334 and 1337. Knighted by Edward III in
>1339, and commissioner of Oyer terminer in London area. Justice of the Peace
>in Middlesex/
<snip>
>
Sir John appears in the DNB vol XLVII and his details may also be found
in 'Aldermen of the City of London' by Beaven, Corp.of the City of
London 1913. Knighted 3 March 1337, will dated 21 Nov 1348, he died 8
Jun 1349.
Have you thought to enquire of the guild livery, the "Bretheren
and Sisters of the Guild or Fraternity of the Blessed Virgin Mary of the
Mistery of Drapers of the City of London" (their formal title!)?
Mike.
========================================================================
Mike Gallafent - 57, Western Elms Ave, Reading, Berks, RG30 2AL England
======================================Mi...@galafent.demon.co.uk=========
pau...@gmail.com
pau...@gmail.com
contatog...@gmail.com
> I have reason to believe that Thomas Paine is actually Thomas de Montagu (Montague or Montacute). Montagu also had a brother named Robert and both timelines match up. Montagu's family can be traced to the Payns and to Filipa de Lencastre (on her mother's side).