Brinson Family
Diane
I am a new member to this list and I am hoping someone can help me
fill in some gaps. This is what I have:
I have a Thomas Brinson born Jul 04 1601 Hatfield, Pevdrel, Essex,
England and his father Robert who was born in 1580 in Essex, England,
not sure exactly where as yet. I believe Robert's father was Phillip
Brinson and his father was Henry Brinson.
In 1308 Purcivel B Bronson was lord of a manor in Colchester, In 1410
D William Brinson built a wooden castle in Dunmow, Essex, England that
was later destroyed by fire, in 1500 Viscount Thomas Brinson was
granted 600 acres in Chelmsford, Essex, England, in 1600 Phillip
Brinson was granted a coat of arms in Auldy, England. I have records
of a John D Brinson in 1240 in Essex, England and on 6-24-1590 an
Anthony Brynson married Agnis Haruye in St Peters At Arches, Lincoln,
Lincoln, England. I have also connected the family to the D'Eu's and
the Havering's.
I do have the family traced back to 105 BC with sources, but I need to
fill in the gaps. If someone could help it would be greatly
appreciated.
Diane
Diane
Diane
Tim Powys-Lybbe
> > Could someone please help me with this???
Well, we've had this request on two successive days and no reply.
Perhaps it is that noone has any help to offer? Let's give it a once
over, anyway.
>
> Diane
>
>
> Hi all,
> >
> > I am a new member to this list and I am hoping someone can help me
> > fill in some gaps. This is what I have:
> > I have a Thomas Brinson born Jul 04 1601 Hatfield, Pevdrel, Essex,
> > England and his father Robert who was born in 1580 in Essex, England,
> > not sure exactly where as yet. I believe Robert's father was Phillip
> > Brinson and his father was Henry Brinson.
It would be useful to provide some evidence, to give some clues on who
and where these Brinsons were, so that we can give advice on where to
look further. What we need is definitive statements of where this
information came from.
> > In 1308 Purcivel B Bronson was lord of a manor in Colchester, In 1410
> > D William Brinson built a wooden castle in Dunmow, Essex, England that
> > was later destroyed by fire, in 1500 Viscount Thomas Brinson was
> > granted 600 acres in Chelmsford, Essex, England,
Are these people supposed to be related?
Anyhow I cannot find a Viscount Thomas Brinson anywhere. What was his
title's name?
Nor can I find any Brinson in the Essex Visitations, which I would have
expected if they were large landowners there.
> > in 1600 Phillip Brinson was granted a coat of arms in Auldy,
> > England.
Please give more information.
> > I have records of a John D Brinson in 1240 in Essex, England and on
> > 6-24-1590 an Anthony Brynson married Agnis Haruye in St Peters At
> > Arches, Lincoln, Lincoln, England.
If these people are all part of the same family, can you give us an
ahnentafel of them please? And include where you got the information
from.
> > I have also connected the family to the D'Eu's and the Havering's.
Needs specifying.
> > I do have the family traced back to 105 BC with sources,
This is a very daring statement. To the best of my knowledge no-one
has a clear and supportable ancestry to before 450 AD. Anything
earlier is called a DFA, Descent from Antiquity, and we would like to
know of anyone who can achieve this. Please tell us more.
> > but I need to fill in the gaps.
This does not makes sense. How can there be gaps if you can trace the
family back to 105 BC?
If you are not clear on what an ahnentafel is, have a look at the FAQ
on:
http://users.erols.com/wrei/faqs/medieval.html
Or are, I wonder, these statements about the Brinsons all a spoof?
The message says it is from: diane_b...@excite.com
The header says it is posted at Google.com
The Posting-Host in the header of 68.220.173.107 is:
Orgname: BellSouth.net Inc.
OrgID: BELL
Address: 575 Morosgo Drive
City: Atlanta
StateProv: GA
PostalCode: 30324
Country: US
It doesn't all quite tie up.
--
Tim Powys-Lybbe t...@powys.org
For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org
Sue J
e-mail from my sister, her address would say one thing but the header
would say something different as she would be e-mailing from work.
That "may" be what is going on here but you could also be correct.
Just a thought.
Sue in Florida mac...@infionline.net
Diane
mac...@infionline.net ("Sue J") wrote in message news:<000001c4cdc0$b48b9d00$0201a8c0@SUSAN01>...
Diane
born in Hatfield, Pevdrel, Essex,England to Robert Brinson born
9-15-1576 at Earl's Colone, Essex, England per Thomas' will and family
bible. Robert's father was Phillip birthdate unknown per family bible,
also per Thomas Brinson's family bible Phillip Brinson was granted a
coat of arms in Auldy,England no further info. All the other info that
I posted was taken from the Bible, although there were many pages
missing in that is why there are gaps in the ancestry. There was a
record of John in 1240 Essex, England, Purcevil Brinson in 1308 who
was lord of a manor (manor name unreadable), in Colchester, Essex,
England, there is also mention of William Brinson building a wooden
castle in 1410 in Dunmow, Essex, England that burned a few years later
(no exact date given) and also mention of in 1500 Viscount Thomas
Brinson was granted 600 acres in Chelmsford, Essex, England. All of
this information was taken from Thomas Brinson (b 1601) will or his
family bible. There are many unreadable passages as well as missing
pages BUT this is all ONE family. They are referred to as Thomas'
father or Robert's father, etc...
As for being able to trace the history back to 105 BC it can be done.
My information came from archivists in France and Sweden that was
taken from wills, christenings, birth and death records, etc. They
have "proven" the line that I have traced. You can also go to this
website: http://www.provenlines.com/index.html and they have some info
there on some families that have been traced back.
The gaps that I have are trying to get the birth/death dates on these
Brinson's that I have listed so that I can put them into my tree and
have "proven" records of them. Although they are proven lineage as
they came from a family bible I just need to put dates to them and I
would like to glean more information about them if possible.
So, to answer your question, NO this is not a spoof.
Diane
Tim Powys-Lybbe <t...@powys.org> wrote in message news:<0cfbf90...@south-frm.demon.co.uk>...
Tim Powys-Lybbe
> I have traced the Brinson's from Thomas 1601 to today 2004. Thomas was
> born in Hatfield, Pevdrel, Essex, England
There is a Hatfield _Peverel_ in Essex between Chelmsford and Witham.
I wonder if this is what was written? It used to be spelt Hatfeild
Peverell, but most places have scores of different spellings in older
documents.
> to Robert Brinson born 9-15-1576 at Earl's Colone, Essex, England per
> Thomas' will
I have looked for Thomas Brinson's will in the DocumentsOnLine service
http://www.documentsonline.pro.gov.uk/ for wills in the Canterbury
Archdiocese, but found nothing. Where is his will to be found?
> and family bible.
I am not sure when the practice developed of entering family genealogy
into a bible. Certainly our family bible did not start until 1780 odd;
it then had entries for each generation over the next 70 years (and then
stopped due to family hiatuses!). Different handwritings are
apparent. If you asked me to guess, I would have said that the practice
of entering this sort of stuff into family bibles did not start before
1700, corroborated to some extent by this site:
http://www.biblerecords.com/new.html Is there any indication of when the
bible was printed, even?
An earlier practice, of which I have come across about four examples,
was to make notes of significant events, particularly births, marriages
and deaths, in a small notebook; the earliest I have found of these is
from the mid 16th century.
> Robert's father was Phillip birthdate unknown per family bible,
> also per Thomas Brinson's family bible Phillip Brinson was granted a
> coat of arms in Auldy,England no further info. All the other info that
> I posted was taken from the Bible, although there were many pages
> missing in that is why there are gaps in the ancestry. There was a
> record of John in 1240 Essex, England, Purcevil Brinson in 1308 who
> was lord of a manor (manor name unreadable), in Colchester, Essex,
> England, there is also mention of William Brinson building a wooden
> castle in 1410 in Dunmow, Essex, England that burned a few years later
> (no exact date given) and also mention of in 1500 Viscount Thomas
> Brinson was granted 600 acres in Chelmsford, Essex, England. All of
> this information was taken from Thomas Brinson (b 1601) will or his
> family bible. There are many unreadable passages as well as missing
> pages BUT this is all ONE family. They are referred to as Thomas'
> father or Robert's father, etc...
It sounds as if someone b. 1601 might have been recalling his ancestry.
The accepted practice is to believe them as far back as their
grandparents as they might have known them. But for earlier
generations, some corroboration from their times is required.
> As for being able to trace the history back to 105 BC it can be done.
> My information came from archivists in France and Sweden that was
> taken from wills, christenings, birth and death records, etc. They
> have "proven" the line that I have traced. You can also go to this
> website: http://www.provenlines.com/index.html and they have some info
> there on some families that have been traced back.
I'm afraid I don't believe that. if you look at the archives (see FAQ
below) of this newsgroup for Descents From Antiquity, DFA, you will see
that it is a fraught subject where nothing is clear and certainly
nothing proven.
> The gaps that I have are trying to get the birth/death dates on these
> Brinson's that I have listed so that I can put them into my tree and
> have "proven" records of them. Although they are proven lineage as
> they came from a family bible
I wonder if you can explain the Viscount Thomas Brinson? I can find no
evidence of any such Viscount. If he does not exist would that disprove
the family bible?
> I just need to put dates to them and I would like to glean more
> information about them if possible.
Perhaps your question is "what do I do now?"? If you wish to glean
more information, then you are looking for other records of those
times. This is why medieval genealogy stops at 1600, because it is
difficult to find records before 1600. There is some very good advice
in the Medieval FAQ at:
http://users.erols.com/wrei/faqs/medieval.html#GN5
Can you read Section 5 and then ask about anything you have difficulty
with?
ADRIANC...@aol.com
> I have looked for Thomas Brinson's will in the DocumentsOnLine service
> http://www.documentsonline.pro.gov.uk/ for wills in the Canterbury
> Archdiocese, but found nothing. Where is his will to be found?
>
Nor can I find a single reference to Brinson/Brimson in the index of
Emmison's transcriptions of Elizabethan Essex Will's (over 10,000 transcripts)
The Oxford dictionary of English Surnames does have Brinson (Brimson.
Brenston) and they left their name in Brimstone Hill, Little Wakering, Essex, also
New Hall Purleigh was formally called from them. They originated from Briencun
(Normandy).
Pity none of this seems to have been know by the author of the enquirer's
bible?
Adrian
Nathaniel Taylor
diane_b...@excite.com (Diane) wrote:
> > > > I do have the family traced back to 105 BC with sources,
> >
> > This is a very daring statement. To the best of my knowledge no-one
> > has a clear and supportable ancestry to before 450 AD. Anything
> > earlier is called a DFA, Descent from Antiquity, and we would like to
> > know of anyone who can achieve this. Please tell us more.
> As for being able to trace the history back to 105 BC it can be done.
> My information came from archivists in France and Sweden that was
> taken from wills, christenings, birth and death records, etc. They
> have "proven" the line that I have traced. You can also go to this
> website: http://www.provenlines.com/index.html and they have some info
> there on some families that have been traced back.
> The gaps that I have are trying to get the birth/death dates on these
> Brinson's that I have listed so that I can put them into my tree and
> have "proven" records of them. Although they are proven lineage as
> they came from a family bible I just need to put dates to them and I
> would like to glean more information about them if possible.
>
> So, to answer your question, NO this is not a spoof.
Not a spoof, perhaps, but it raises a number of red flags. Who,
precisely, has 'proven' the line traced by Diane? Hopefully not the
shadowy figures behind the website 'provenlines.com'! [NetworkSolutions
reveals them as Robert and / or Trudy Standridge, of Sapulpa, Oklahoma.]
The site offers to 'Certify' pedigrees submitted by 'internet
genealogists' for an initial $20 'application fee', and perhaps rather
more later on in the process (fees unspecified). The website itself
appears to give no access to examples of such 'proven' lines (of any
date, let alone to 105 BC) without a $15 subscription fee.
The website looks suspicious, since it offers certainty of 'proof'
without saying anything of the skills and expertise of those giving such
proof. And if proofs go back to 105 BC, then it is nothing more than
fraud, playing on the unfamiliarity of someone like the 'Brinson'
querier with methods & resources for premodern genealogy.
Nat Taylor
a genealogist's sketchbook:
http://home.earthlink.net/~nathanieltaylor/leaves/
WJho...@aol.com
more later on in the process (fees unspecified). The website itself appears to give no access to examples of such 'proven' lines (of any date, let alone to 105 BC) without a $15 subscription fee."
Excellent detective work Nat. One more fraud bites the dust :)
Will
Todd A. Farmerie
> As for being able to trace the history back to 105 BC it can be done.
> My information came from archivists in France and Sweden that was
> taken from wills, christenings, birth and death records, etc. They
> have "proven" the line that I have traced.
As others have pointed out, it appears that you have been sold a bill of
goods. There are no fully documented "proven" lines of descent that can
be traced in Europe to a period prior to about 450 AD. Now, it is
always the possibility that some new trove of documents has been found,
but I suspect not. The simple solution, though, is for you to post some
details, which will enable us to see what you have in mind, and perhaps
figure out where there may be potential problems.
> You can also go to this
> website: http://www.provenlines.com/index.html and they have some info
> there on some families that have been traced back.
All I see here are pages of random data - lists of people at battles or
signing particular documents or ruling countries, but no genealogies.
taf
L Mahler
> I have traced the Brinson's from Thomas 1601 to today 2004. Thomas was
> born in Hatfield, Pevdrel, Essex,England to Robert Brinson born
> 9-15-1576 at Earl's Colone, Essex, England per Thomas' will and family
> bible. Robert's father was Phillip birthdate unknown per family bible,
> also per Thomas Brinson's family bible
<rest snipped>
The parish of Earls Colne is one of the best studied places in
England.
The study has been undertaken by some researchers at Cambridge
University,
and fortunately, the records are online.
The entries for individuals with surnames beginning with "B" are at:
http://linux02.lib.cam.ac.uk/earlscolne/names/B.htm
There is no Philip Brinson recorded there at all, and no Robert
Brinson baptized there in the 1570s.
A Brownson / Bronson family is recorded there, some of whom emigrated
to
Hartford, Connecticut in the 1630s.
-------------
Its interesting that there are many 'searchers' out there who are
looking for verification for 'traditional' pedigrees.
Those same searchers, however, do not accept debunking of
'traditional' pedigrees. Usually when negative evidence shows up, they
disappear.
Genealogy is supposed to be about learning, about finding out what is
truth vs. what is false.
Its unfortunate that many people can not come to terms with the
existence of false pedigrees.
Leslie