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C.P. Addition: Burial place of Edward of Angoulême, son of Edward the Black Prince and Joan of Kent

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Douglas Richardson

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Oct 18, 2011, 8:22:46 AM10/18/11
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Dear Newsgroup ~

Complete Peerage, 3 (1913): 437, footnote b (sub Cornwall) indicates
that the famous medieval prince, Edward the Black Prince (died 1376),
Prince of Aquitaine and Wales, Duke of Cornwall, Earl of Chester, and
his wife, Joan of Kent, had two sons, Edward (who died young) and
Richard (who subsequently became King Richard II of England).

Specifically Complete Peerage says the following regarding the elder
son, Edward:

"The eldest, 'Edward of Angoulême,' was born there 1365, and died
young, v.p., 1372 in Gascony." END OF QUOTE.

Complete Peerage provides no documentation for this statement, so we
are left without any idea where the author obtained this information.

The matter of Edward of Angoulême's dates of birth and death have been
discussed in an earlier thread on soc.genealogy.medieval. Interested
parties can review the material in that thread in the newsgroup's
archives.
Suffice to say, Edward's birth date is established by a letter written
by his own mother, Joan of Kent, immediately following his birth:

Sharpe, Calendar of Letter-Books of London: D (1902): 301–311 (Folio
clxviii b.: “Letter from Johanna, Princess of Wales, to the Mayor and
Aldermen, announcing the birth of a son [Prince Edward of Angoulême,
eldest son of the Black Prince] on 27 Jan., 39 Edward III. [A.D.
1365]. Dated at the Castle of ‘Engolesme,’ 4 Feb.”).

As for Edward of Angouleme's death date, the Wigmore chronicle states
that Edward of Angoulême died about the feast of Saint Michael [29
September] in 1370. Here is an exact quote:

Wigmore Chron. sub 1370: “Circa festum sancti michaelis [29 Sept.]
obiit Edwardus filius Edwardi principis Aquitanie et Wallie in
partibus transmarinis natus ex Johanna uxore dicti principis etate sex
annorum.” [Reference: Taylor, English Historical Literature in the
14th Century (1987): 296].

The approximate ("circa") death date for Edward of Angoulême provided
by Wigmore Chronicle is within 10 days of the capture of Limoges and
the subsequent return of Edward's father to Bourdeaux. It would
appear to be an accurate date of Edward's death.

As for Edward's place of burial, the French chronicler, Froissart,
indicates young Edward died and was buried at Bordeaux, as indicated
by the two quotations below:

1. A.D. 1371: “The same season in the cyte of Burdeaux dyed the eldest
sonne of the Prince and Princesse, wherof they were right sorie as
reasone was. Than the Prince was counsayled that he shulde retourne
into Englande into his owne countre, to thentent the rather therby to
recover his helth.” [Reference: Froissart, Chron. of Froissart 2
(1901): 365.].

2. A.D. 1371: “Anone after that the Prince was departed from Burdeux,
the duke of Lancastre made the obsequy of his cosyn Edwarde, sone to
the Prince his brother, the whiche was nobly done in the cytie of
Burdeux, and therat were all the barons of Gascoyne, and Poictou, such
as had sworne obeysance to him.” [Reference: Froissart, Chron. of
Froissart 2 (1901): 367.].

However, Dictionary of National Biography, 6 (1908): 508–519 states
that while Edward's funeral was held in Bordeaux after his father
returned to England, Edward was buried in London, citing Weever,
Funeral Monuments, pg. 419:

“The Black Prince’s health had by this time so entirely given way that
his physicians ordered his immediate return to England. To add to his
troubles, his eldest son, Edward, died at the beginning of 1371, in
his seventh year, while preparations were being made for the
embarkation. The loyal barons of Aquitaine were summoned to receive
the final instructions of the prince, who presented to them his
brother Lancaster as his lieutenant, and was then carried on board his
ship, leaving his son's funeral to the care of the duke. … Edward,
born at Angoulême on 27 July 1364 (Eulogium), 1365 (Murimuth), or 1363
(Froissart), died immediately before his father’s return to England in
Jan. 1371, and was buried in the church of the Austin Friars, London
(Weever, Funeral Monuments, pg. 419).”). END OF QUOTE.

Indeed Weever, Antient Funeral Monuments (1767): 204, specifically
states that Edward of Angoulême was buried in the church of the Austin
Friars in London. The information in Weever may be viewed at the
following weblink:

http://books.google.com/books?id=Um0DAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA204

So the question is: Was Edward of Angoulême buried at Bordeaux as
maintained by Froissart, or in London as indicated by Weever who saw
his tomb?

The answer to this question can be found in a rather obscure source,
List of Foreign Accounts, published in 1900 by the Lists and Indexes
Society.

This source indicates that in 1388–9 [12 Richard II] King Richard II
sent Robert, Bishop of Aire, on a mission to Aquitaine to bring the
bones of Edward, the king’s brother, back to England. This
information may be viewed at the following weblink:

http://books.google.com/books?id=VkkMAQAAMAAJ&pg=RA1-PA76

So it would appear that Edward of Angoulême was intiially buried in
Bordeaux as suggested by Froissart, and that his remains were
subsequently removed to England by his brother, King Richard II, for
re-burial in London.

Due to his early death, there are obviously no living descendants of
Edward of Angoulême. However, his mother, Joan of Kent, left
surviving issue by her 1st marriage and has many modern descendants.
For interest's sake, the following is a list of the 17th Century New
World immigrants who descend from Joan of Kent and her 1st husband,
Thomas of Holand, K.G., Earl of Kent:

John Barclay, John Bevan, Essex Beville, William Bladen, Elizabeth
Bosvile, Stephen Bull, Charles Calvert, St. Leger Codd, Edward Digges,
Robert Drake, Rowland Ellis, Henry Fleete, Muriel Gurdon, Elizabeth &
John Harleston, Warham Horsmanden, Patrick Houston, Anne Humphrey,
Nathaniel Littleton, Thomas Lloyd, John and Margaret Nelson, Philip &
Thomas Nelson, John Oxenbridge, Herbert Pelham, Henry & William
Randolph, Thomas Rudyard, Katherine Saint Leger, Mary Johanna
Somerset, Samuel & Samuel & William Torrey, John & Lawrence
Washington, John West, Hawte Wyatt.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

Derek Howard

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Oct 18, 2011, 12:32:08 PM10/18/11
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Interesting then that Richard II had a tomb made for his elder brother
in 1391 at Kings Langley (see N Saul: "Richard II", 1997, p 453 n,
citing the Exchequer issue roll E403/533, 27 April).

Derek Howard

Peter Stewart

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Oct 18, 2011, 6:21:26 PM10/18/11
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>> Thomas Nelson, John Oxenbridge, Herbert Pelham, Henry& William
>> Randolph, Thomas Rudyard, Katherine Saint Leger, Mary Johanna
>> Somerset, Samuel& Samuel& William Torrey, John& Lawrence
>> Washington, John West, Hawte Wyatt.
>>
>> Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
>
> Interesting then that Richard II had a tomb made for his elder brother
> in 1391 at Kings Langley (see N Saul: "Richard II", 1997, p 453 n,
> citing the Exchequer issue roll E403/533, 27 April).

Quite so, Derek.

There are two entries in the Exchequer issue rolls relating to the tomb
in the priory church of Childs Langley (as it was then called), first on
27 April 1391 for the marble tomb "now lately ordered to be placed over
the body of Edward, brother to the said now Lord the King, buried within
the church of the friars preacher, of Children Langeley"; and secondly
on 15 July in the same year for "procuring iron-work to be placed around
the tomb of Edward, brother of our said Lord the King, at
Childerlangley" [translations by Frederick Devon in _Issues of the
Exchequer ... from King Henry III to King Henry VI Inclusive_ (London,
1837), pp 244 & 248].

It's peculiar that Richardson, who so loves to Google, hasn't found this
for himself.

It's also peculiar (or would be for any trained and/or professional
historian) that he chooses to quote Froissart in the translation by Lord
Berners into Tudor English.

Peter Stewart

Douglas Richardson

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Oct 19, 2011, 1:28:06 AM10/19/11
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Dear Derek ~

Thank you for your good post. Much appreciated.

I'm sure that Mr. Saul is correct that King Richard II provided a tomb
for his brother, Edward of Angoulême, in Hertfordshire, not in London,
on the removal of Edward's remains from Bordeaux in 1388-9.

As you indicated, Mr. Saul states that King Richard II erected a tomb
for his brother, Edward, at King's Langley, Hertfordshire. However,
to be more specific, it appears that this tomb was located in the
church of the priory of the Friars Preachers then located at Chilterne
Langley, or Children's Langley in the parish of King's Langley,
Hertfordshire.

The matter of Edward of Angouleme's burial place at Chilterne Langley
and the likely removal of his remains there was addressed in a note
published in Notes and Queries, 5th Series, 9 (1878): 251-252. This
note may be viewed at the following weblink:

http://books.google.com/books?id=6M5Hu95Ru3MC&pg=PA252&lpg=PA251

The author of this piece, Hermentrude, stated that Edward of Angoulême
was buried at Chilterne Langley, or more correctly Children's Langley,
"since it takes its name from the nursery palace which stood there."

Hermentrude added further comments: "I do not know whether the church
of Chilterne Langley is now in existence, but I do know that on
consulting two excellent county maps and a good topographical
dictionary I failed to find a trace of the spot. As Chilterne Langley
was in the immediate vicinity of King's Langley, it strikes me as
possible - but I bet that I may be understood as offering the
conjectures as a conjecture only - that if the church of Chilterne
Langley were destroyed, the coffin of Edward of Angouleme might have
been removed to the nearest royal sepulchre - that of his uncle at
King's Langley. I would therefore ask, Was there any indication of
the remains of a male child of seven years old?" END OF QUOTE.

Hermentrude implies that the "church" of Chilterne Langley was
separate and distinct from the parish church of King's Langley, and
she is correct. By the church at Chilterne Langley, Hermentude surely
meant the church of the priory "house" of the Friars Preachers at
Chilterne Langley which formerly stood in the parish of King's
Langley, Hertfordshire.

VCH Hertford 3 (1908): 235-243 (sub King's Langley) states that the
issues of 'Childerlangele' were bestowed on the friars preachers who
dwelt there in 1343, to be held at the king's will and conditionally
on the repair of the houses and buildings of the manor and of Little
London. In 1428 the friars held one knight's fee of the king in
Childerlangley in pure and perpetual alms. After the Dissolution, the
site of the priory was granted, in 1540, to Richard, bishop suffragan
of Dover. In 1607 the site of the priory consisted of seven acres,
and the church which formerly stood on the site of the priory was then
completely ruined.

Following the destruction of the Chilterne Langley priory church, it
would appear that Edward of Angouleme's remains were removed to the
church of Austin Friars, London, where Weever saw his tomb c.1767.

Derek Howard

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Oct 19, 2011, 5:22:48 AM10/19/11
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Chiltern or Childs/Childrens Langley are one and the same as the
Dominican Priory in the estate of the royal manor of Kings Langley
(see S Phillips: "Edward II", 2010, 62, 67-8 for details of the
foundation).

Richard II was himself buried in the Dominican Priory at Kings Langley
8 Mar 1400 by Henry IV (Saul, 428; Adam of Usk, ed Frowde 1904, 205).
Richard's uncle, Edmund of Langley, was also buried there in 1402, and
of course Edward II had in 1315 buried Piers Gaveston in the royal
foundation there.

Richard was later exhumed and reburied at Westminster by Henry V (Saul
cites Wylie and Waugh “The Reign of Henry V”, i, 207-11). I suggest
that the occasion of that exhumation and reburial may also have been
the excuse for Edward of Angoulême to be relocated to London. I cannot
believe the transfer took place _after_ the destruction of the Langley
priory. What happened to Gaveston's body or grave is obscure as far as
I can see.

Derek Howard

Douglas Richardson

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Oct 19, 2011, 10:47:42 AM10/19/11
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There is an interesting article by John Evans in Archaeologia 46
(1881): 297-328 which discusses the history of the priory church of
the Friars Preachers at King's Langley, Hertfordshire. The article
may be viewed at the following weblink:

http://books.google.com/books?id=CDIUAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA297

The author provides various details regarding the priory church which
are not covered by VCH Hertford 3 (1908). It appears that n 1312 King
Edward II, "while in peril of death" founded a house for the Friars
preachers "at his park at Langley" for the daily celebration of mass
for the soul of himself and those of his ancestors. The conventual
church was consecrated by the Bishop of Bath and Wells in 1312. In
1358 King Edward III granted to the prior of the Friars of
Childerlangley a right of way through his park at that place.

On page 304, the author states that "Edward of Angouleme, the eldest
son of the Black Prince, died in Gascony in 1372, and is said to have
been brought to England and to have been buried in this church." As I
have shown, Edward of Angouleme died at Bordeaux in 1370, not in
1372. Mr. Evans makes no mention that the remains of Edward of
Angouleme were initially buried at Bordeaux or that his tomb was later
found in the church of the Austin Friars, London.

Peter de Gavaston, Edmund of Langley and his wife, Isabel of Castile,
and King Richard II were all buried in the church of the Friars
Preachers at King's Langley, Hertfordshire. The body of King Richard
II was later exhumed and reburied at Westminster Abbey in 1414. The
tomb of Peter de Gavaston has seemingly disappeared. And the monument
of Edmund of Langley was moved to the nearby parish church of King's
Langley, Hertfordshire.

Mr. Evans states that the date that the tomb of Edmund of Langley was
moved from the priory church to parish church is uncertain, but he
thinks it took place about 1574. However, my guess is that the tomb
was moved c.1540, in which year the site of the priory at King's
Langley was granted to Richard, Bishop suffragan of Dover.

There is no indication when the tomb of Edward of Angouleme was moved
from King's Langley to London.

Volucris

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Oct 22, 2011, 12:43:09 PM10/22/11
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Perhaps the year of death 1372 was somehow inspired by the age given
of the deceased Edward (etate sex annorum) and the knowledge the the
child was born on 27 jan.1365.

Wigmore Chron. sub 1370: “Circa festum sancti michaelis [29 Sept.]
obiit Edwardus filius Edwardi principis Aquitanie et Wallie in
partibus transmarinis natus ex Johanna uxore dicti principis etate
sex
annorum.” [Reference: Taylor, English Historical Literature in the
14th Century (1987): 296].

Sharpe, Calendar of Letter-Books of London: D (1902): 301–311 (Folio
clxviii b.: “Letter from Johanna, Princess of Wales, to the Mayor and
Aldermen, announcing the birth of a son [Prince Edward of Angoulême,
eldest son of the Black Prince] on 27 Jan., 39 Edward III. [A.D.
1365]. Dated at the Castle of ‘Engolesme,’ 4 Feb.”).

Hans Vogels
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