I am back for a short time. Lyle question
JMON...@aol.com
I have been subscribed but a short time and it is nice to see some familiar
posters.
I sincerely hope Leo, and kay allen are here besides paul reed and ed mann.
All so i hope douglas richardson is all so here.
Cheers all!
I have a question that perhaps some kind soul here can help with.
Does any one know the ancestry of margaret wallace the wife of Robert lyle
first lord Lyle. I am back doing family history agian for a little while, but
i can not seem to find this info.
Thanks in advance
RAY
Leo van de Pas
It won't be easy to help you.
The Complete Peerage VIII page 293 gives Robert Lyle, 1st Baron Lyle, with
his first wife Margaret Gray, daughter of Andrew, 1st Lord Gray, and
Elizabeth Wemyss. Of his second wife, Margaret Wallace, it records only that
she was his second wife (no marriage date and no names of her parents) and
that she was living 15 April 1466. He died probably soon after 20 February
1468/1469.
There is a confusing (to me) footnote. James III re-granted the entail of
the family to successively to the heirs male of Robert Lyle; the elder
daughter of Robert Lyle and Margaret Wallace (her husband to assume the name
and arms of the said Lord Lyle) and her heirs lawfully begotten; Robert
Lyle, natural son of the said lord Lyle.
What confuses me is that the 1st Lord Lyle is succeeded by
Robert (Lyle) Lord Lyle, only son and heir. It is not indicated who he
mother is, does this mean it was the illegitimate son?
I know this doesn't help but perhaps someone else can shed some light on
this?
Best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Leo van de Pas
questions arising.
Robert Lyle, 1st Lord Lyle, according to Burke's Extinct Peerage (I know,
beware) by his first wife he had only one daughter,
Margaret, she married Alexander, son and heir of Alan Lyle, of Craigbate
by Margaret Wallace he had a son and a daughter,
Robert, 2nd Lord Lyle
Elizabeth, who married John Stewart of Blackhall
Here comes the first question. Robert Lyle died about 1470.
Robert III, King of Scots, had an illegitimate son, Sir John Stewart, of
Blackhall. For this John I cannot find dates or a spouse. He had a daughter
Margaret who, about 1440, married and became the second wife of Duncan
Campbell, 1st Baron Campbell. To me it seems difficult for this Margaret
Stewart to be a daughter of Elizabeth Lyle as she would be 55 (if she
married age 15) when her grandfather, Robert Lyle, died. Does this mean that
the illegitimate son of Robert III had fathered a son John Stewart, of
Blackhall who married Elizabeth Lyle? Time wise it seems more likely.
Referring back to my first reply, Robert 2nd Lord Lyle was referred to as
"only son and heir" even though his illegitimate brother had been placed
into the entail. Shouldn't the Complete Peerage have referred to the 2nd
Lord as "only legitimate son"?
Now comes another question. In the Complete Peerage VII page 596 Matthew
Stewart (Stuart) Earl of Lennox, married, before 13 June 1480, Margaret
Lyle, daughter of Robert Lyle, Lord Lyle.
Sadly, the name of her mother is not given. In 1480 (since about 1470) we
have Robert, 2nd Lord Lyle who, according to the Extinct Peerage married (1)
a daughter of John, Master of Seton, who d.s.p.
he married (2) Lady Elizabeth Douglas by whom he had a son (and heir). Where
does this Margaret fit in? According to the Extinct Peerage she is not a
daughter of the 1st or 2nd Lord Lyle.
The 3rd Lord Lyle was father of John, Helen and Catharine is far too late in
time to be taken into account.
By pursuing these questions we might find out more about Margaret Wallace,
about whom the original query was made. Can anyone help?
Best wishes
Leo van de Pas
.
Suzanne Doig
wrote:
>Here comes the first question. Robert Lyle died about 1470.
>Robert III, King of Scots, had an illegitimate son, Sir John Stewart, of
>Blackhall. For this John I cannot find dates or a spouse. He had a daughter
>Margaret who, about 1440, married and became the second wife of Duncan
>Campbell, 1st Baron Campbell. To me it seems difficult for this Margaret
>Stewart to be a daughter of Elizabeth Lyle as she would be 55 (if she
>married age 15) when her grandfather, Robert Lyle, died. Does this mean that
>the illegitimate son of Robert III had fathered a son John Stewart, of
>Blackhall who married Elizabeth Lyle? Time wise it seems more likely.
One account makes Elizabeth Lyle's husband the *great-great-grandson*
of Robert III, although it appears there may possibly be one
generation too many in the line:
<http://www.baronage.co.uk/bphtm-03/ardgowan.html>, written by
occasional sgm correspondent Jared Olar. It is a proposed amendment to
the line suggested in the latest ed. of Burke's Peerage.
>Now comes another question. In the Complete Peerage VII page 596 Matthew
>Stewart (Stuart) Earl of Lennox, married, before 13 June 1480, Margaret
>Lyle, daughter of Robert Lyle, Lord Lyle.
>Sadly, the name of her mother is not given. In 1480 (since about 1470) we
>have Robert, 2nd Lord Lyle who, according to the Extinct Peerage married (1)
>a daughter of John, Master of Seton, who d.s.p.
>he married (2) Lady Elizabeth Douglas by whom he had a son (and heir). Where
>does this Margaret fit in?
According to Burke's Peerage 1970 ed. p. 1872, she was a daughter of
Robert, 2nd Lord Lyle, by Margaret Houston.
Suzanne
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