C.P. Addition/Correction: Neville- Fenne
Douglas Richardson
Complete Peerage, 1 (1910): 30-31 (sub Abergavenny) has a good account
of the history of George Neville, Knt. (died 1492), Lord Bergavenny.
Regarding his first marriage to Margaret at Fenne, the author provides
the following information:
"He m[arried], 1stly, Margaret, d. and h. of Sir Hugh Fenne, of
Sculton Burdelys, Norfolk, and of Braintree, Essex, Treasuer of the
Household to Henry VI."
No date is given for this marriage.
The following two items were found in the helpful online A2A Catalogue
(http://www.a2a.org.uk/search/index.asp). The first item shows that
Sir George Neville and his wife, Margaret at Fenne, were married
sometime before 1 May 1471, when they were enfeoffed with land at
Hillborough, Norfolk. The second item involves George and Margaret
Neville's son and heir, George, Jr.
Norfolk Record Office: Mills of Hillborough, Norfolk
MILLS OF HILBOROUGH
Catalogue Ref. HIL
Creator(s):
Mills family of Hillborough, Norfolk
Title Deeds
Norfolk
Hilborough: deeds of other properties
FILE - Feoffment by John Fyncham, Henry Spylman and John Coo to
Margaret wife of George Nevyll knight, lord of Bergevenny, daughter of
Hugh at Fenne, of 100a. land and liberty of one fold in Hilborough
formerly John Stede's. - ref. HIL/1/53,870X1 - date: 1 May 1471
FILE - Grant by George Nevyll knight Lord Burgevenny, son of
Margaret wife of George Nevyll, Lord Burgevenny, daughter of Hugh at
Fenne, to William Knyvet knight of 100a. of land and liberty of fold
formerly John Stede's. - ref. HIL/1/54,870X1 - date: 1 December 1494
END OF CATALOGUE ITEMS.
- - - - - -
Regarding Margaret at Fenne's father, Hugh at Fenne, is it often
stated in print that he was knighted (as does Complete Peerage).
However, the highest rank he appears to have held was that of esquire,
not knight.
The first two items below regarding Hugh at Fenne's estate are found
on the online PROCAT Catalogue (http://catalogue.pro.gov.uk/) and the
second two are taken from the online A2A Catalogue. The last item
refers to Hugh at Fenne as being "of Herringby," Norfolk, which may
well be the place where he was living at the time of his death.
Please note that none of these records indicate that Hugh at Fenne was
knighted.
Item #1:
E 41/168
Eleanor atte Fenne late wife of Hugh atte Fenne, and William Jenney
serjeant at law, supervisors of the will of Hugh, and William Essex,
Henry Heydon, Edmund Jenney and Edmund Widewell, executors of the same
will: Deed setting out the provisions of the will of Hugh atte Fenne
made 4 Feb.
Date: 1 Oct. 16 Edw IV [1476].
Item #2:
C 1/421/48
Edmund Jenney, knight, executor of Hugh at Fenne. v. Nicholas Grave.:
Accounts of defendant as steward of the lands devised by the said Hugh
to found a college and almshouse for priests, poor men and poor women
at Herringby.: Norfolk. Date: 1515-1518
Item #3:
Norfolk Record Office: Parish Records of Swaffham
Parish records of Swaffham
Catalogue Ref. PD 52/258
Charities, Town estate. Deeds and papers up to the dissolution of
Blake's chantry.
FILE - Letter informing the tenants of the manor of Aspalles that
Symond Blake had purchased it from the executors of Hugh Fenne - date:
c 1475
Item #4:
Norfolk Record Office: Diocese of Norwich: Records of the Estates of
the Bishop of Norwich
Catalogue Ref. DN/EST
RECORDS OF ST. BENETS ABBEY
FILE - Account of Thomas Banyard collector and receiver of rents etc -
ref. DN/EST 14/12 - date: 1485 - 1486
[from Scope and Content] Collector in Herringby, Tunstall,
Stalham, Barton, Edingthorpe and Worstead Norfolk, and of the manors
of Rothenhale and Kessingland formerly Kyngstons in Suffolk that were
of Hugh at Fenne of Herringby and in the hands of feoffes for the
performance of his last will. 2-3 Henry VII [1485-1486]. Repairs
account added. The abbot of St. Benet was apparently supervisor of the
will. END OF CATALOGUE ITEMS.
- - - - - - - - - -
From studying printed sources, it appears that Hugh at Fenne's
ancestry is not as complete as one would like. One clue to his
extended ancestry is provided by a letter found in the published
Paston letters, in which Hugh at Fenne addresses John Paston, Esquire,
as his "cosyn":
Letter from Hugh A Fenne dated 1456 addressed to his "maister and
cosyn" John Paston, Esq. [Reference: N. Davis, Paston Letters and
Papers of the 15th Century 2 (1976): 139–140].
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
E-mail: royala...@msn.com
ADRIANC...@aol.com
Burke's gives this marriage as happening before 1469.
Adrian
Douglas Richardson wrote;
Douglas Richardson
Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
E-mail: royala...@msn.com
ADRIANC...@aol.com wrote in message news:<12e.417d2b...@aol.com>...
ADRIANC...@aol.com
You know the answer to this.
Although CP gives many sources, there is also much that is also unsourced.
If you want everything sourced perhaps C.P. Addition/Correction should become
C.P. Addition/Correction/Source?
Adrian
Douglas Richardson
The information below regarding Hugh at Fenne, father-in-law of Sir
George Neville (died 1472), Lord Bergavenny, is found on the following
website:
http://awt.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=ancestorsearch&id=I3580
Additional information regarding Hugh at Fenne's extended ancestry may
be found on the above website.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
E-mail: royala...@msn.com
- - - - - - - - -
The Will of Hugh atte Fenne, 1476 Norwich
Norfolk Record Society
Edited By Roger Virgoe
Hugh atte Fenne so styled himself in his will and the family normally
used that form of the name, but he was quite frequently called simply
'Fenne' and both forms have been used in this introduction. The Fennes
were a quite prolific Yarmouth and East Norfolk family, with, as was
normal in the fifteenth century, a restricted number of Christian
names and Hugh is not, therefore, easy to place precisely in the
family pedigree: it seems probable, however, that he was the Hugh, son
of Thomas atte Fenne, who was appointed her executor by his
grandmother, Christian Savage, in 1442. Christian's first husband had
been Hugh atte Fenne, many times bailiff and three times parliamentary
burgess of Great Yarmouth, who in his will, made in 1409, appointed as
one of his executors Edmund Wyth, thus providing a link between the
two wills printed in this volume. Hugh refers in the will to three
sons, Thomas, Hugh and Miles. Miles disappears without trace and Hugh
may have been the London fishmonger who made his will (with references
to Yarmouth and to his mother, Christian, in 1420, but Thomas atte
Fenne was a man of importance in Yarmouth, serving as troner and peser
there from 1427 and as bailiff of the town in 1432 and 1440. Either he
or a son and namesake was bailiff again in 1447, 1453 and 1457 and
collector of customs there between 1451 and 1460. The will of
Christian, who had remarried Peter Savage, refers to Hugh as the son
of Thomas, and the identity of this Hugh with the exchequer official
and the testator of 1476 is confirmed by the grant made by Thomas in
1438 of lands in Herringby and elsewhere, formerly of his father,
Hugh, to Sir John Fastolf and others: these lands came to Hugh Fenne
after Fastolf's death and formed part of the endowment of his
alms-house.
In 1431 Hugh, son of Thomas atte Fenne, was fined at Yarmouth for not
being in a tithing; possible this implies that he had recently reached
the age of twelve and therefore was born about 1418. It is possible
that he was educated at Cambridge and Gray's Inn but the evidence for
this is largely inference drawn from clauses in his will, and the
first certain reference to him, in 1447, is as 'Hugh atte Fenne of
London' acting as mainpernor for Richard Gegh of Saham Tony. He was
certainly an Exchequer official by this time and in 1450, when he was
sent to Parliament to report on the state of Exchequer finances, he
held office as clerk to John Somer, one of the auditors of the
Exchequer.
In May 1450 Fenne was granted with Sir Thomas Stanley the keeping of
Swaffham Manor in Norfolk and in July the keeping of Wratting Manor,
Suffolk; he lost these by the Act of Resumption but was regranted
Swaffham for 12 years in July 1451. The political upheavals of 1450
improved Fenne's position as his kinsman, Sir Jon Fastolf, increased
his influence, and may have been responsible for his election to the
parliament of November 1450 as burgess for Yarmouth. Fenne was in
Norfok in May 1451 when the case brought by Fastolf and John Paston
against Lord Moleyns was heard at Walsingham. In the following year he
and Robert Gegh were granted goods of Richard Gegh which had been
forfeited to the Crown as a result of Gegh's suicide. By the late
1450s Fenne held Gegh's former manor of Ickburgh and in a letter to
John Paston appears to allude to Gegh as his uncle.
Early in 1453, on John Somer's death, Fenne was appointed by the
treasurer, John, Earl of Worcester, to succeed him as auditor of the
Exchequer. This was a big step forward, as the auditors were among the
senior Exchequer officials, and Fenne was now in a good position to
assist his friends and relations in their incessant legal and
administrative business in London. He was to be particularly active on
behalf of Sir John Fastolf and John Paston, shrugging away offers of
reward, though Fastolf's servant, John Bocking, thought that 'he
farith as a man wole sey he wold noo silvere and lokith awaywardes and
takith a noble'. But this may have been over-cynical; Fenne was acting
within the context of family and neighbourhood connections, and, as
Margaret Paston wrote, 'he is called right feythfull and trosty to his
frendes that trost hym'. His reward would come from reciprocal favours
and assistance from these friends and there are several letters among
the Paston correspondence in which Fenne sought aid from Norfolk
gentlemen; as will be shown below he also relied upon neighbours in
East Anglia as feoffees and executors, they similarly fulfilling the
obligations of kinship and neighbourliness. Although Fenne was
increasingly busy in the affairs of the Crown, his contacts and
interest in East Anglia remained strong. He was appointed escheator of
Norfolk and Suffolk for 1456-7 and was a J.P. in Norfolk from 1457 to
March 1460, as well as sitting on other Norfolk commissions.
The Yorkist victory of 1460-1 brought him further influence. 'It is
reportyed that he may do myche with the King and the lordes', wrote
Margaret Paston in December 1461, and twice during the following
decade he was appointed to the influential position of under-treasurer
of England. He did not receive major grants from the Crown, though he
and his kinsmen, William Jenney and William Essex, purchased valuable
wardships-no doubt at a bargain price. Although he was not
re-appointed to the peace commission, his Norfolk connections remained
important and he still could be relied upon to assist kinsmen and
friends in their search for patronage and victory in litigation.
Relations with the Pastiness became a little more uncertain with the
dispute over Sir John Fastolf's will. Fenne had been appointed one of
the overseers of Fastolf's will and his own interests were involved,
for Fastolf had not only owed him 200 marks but had apparently
recognised that he had a claim to the Herringby lands conveyed away by
his father. The manors of Herringby Spensers and Fennes were held by
Fastolf at his death but both seem to have been acquired by Fenne
during the following decade. He was also acquiring other lands in East
Anglia as well as in Sussex, London and Middlesex, most of which he
mentions in his will. It was normal practice for a successful royal
official to use some of the profits of office to build up a landed
estate, and it may be that Fenne had the intention of founding a
substantial landed family in East Anglia. But if so he was
disappointed; any son he had died young and the only child who
survived him was a daughter, Margaret, for whom he found a prestigious
match with Sir George, the son and heir of George Neville, Lord
Abergavenny. But, as the will shows, she was to inherit only a part of
his lands. He had destined his Herringby and associated lands for the
endowment of a religious and charitable foundation, which will be
described below.
Hugh Fenne was still active in the 1470s; indeed he was appointed to a
commission to survey royal property at Windsor on 24 February 1476,
the day on which his will is dated. According to the inquisition post
mortem on his Norfolk lands taken two years alter, Fenne died on 23
February 1476, but the lengthy delay probably accounts for the
error-not infrequent in the findings of juries. He certainly died
before 30 April 1476, when his exchequer office was filled, and it is
highly likely that he died during the last week of February.
Extract of Will:
Body to be buried in the chancel of Herringby Church, Norfolk, next my
mother's tomb.
Up to 50L worth of blackwoollen clothes for my master, Sir George
Neville, his wife and children, for my wife, my household servants, my
executors and their wives, my kinsmen in London and some of their
servants and for other friends riding with my body.
To my wife-200 marks in instalments over five years, on condition that
she release her dower-rights in my lands and acquit my executors for
all my goods in the manner specified below. And to her also 100s.p.a.
for five years to be distributed in alms for the souls of me and our
children and friends, apart from what she will do for my soul from her
own goods.
Life annuities of 5 marks p.a. to Elena Chamber of Hingham and 20s
p.a. to John Palmer of Costessey which they now have from my manor of
Scoulton-which will thus be relieved of them.
I will that my executors pay 26s. 8d. p.a. for life to George Chamber,
in consideration that I bought from him at the instance of George and
his friends my manor in Scoulton for 165L, with costs of the court and
fine-which is of greater value when his mother's reversion and John
Palmer's annuity fall in. This is by my good will, since he is poor,
so that he may live better, on condition that he be of good and honest
disposition in word and deed-for I offered him the manor for the said
sum of 165L but he and his friends could not find the sum.
I will that my wife have to her own use all my plate, jewels and stuff
of household being in London and Hakeney in her keeping, except all
such as I beaqueth hereafter. So that she by writing sufficient in the
law to be made under her seal release her dower she would claim in all
my manors lands and tenements with the appurtentenances if she were so
disposed and also that she acquitance sufficiently to my executors all
the right title and claim that she may make to my goodes, chattles and
deeds by the law or by custom of the City of London. And if she will
not release her said dower and acquitance to my said executors in the
said form but so break my will, then she may have of my lands and
goods as law will and I will she have no more thereof than but as law
will, the which I know for truth shall not be so much to her profit by
a good portion in good and land. And if she release and acquitance in
the form aforesaid and take the whole of my said plate, jewels and
stuff in London and Hakeney afroesaid, then I will and pray her
heartly that if Margaret Nevill, my daughter, over live her so that my
master, her husband, and she be to my wife always loving and kind,
that it will like my wife at her decease to give to my said daughter
as much of my said plate as is worth cc marcs, upon condition that my
said master trouble not with with my executors nor let the execution
of this my testament and last will to the intent that it may please my
said master Sir George Nevill and my said daughter, his wife, at her
decease to leave all the same plate to my master and godson, George
Nevill, their son, at his lawfull age. And if he be not then on live,
as I pray God grant he be, than to such other heir male to my said
master, Sir George, as God will shall be. And if my said master, Sir
George, decease without heir male, as God defend, then to his daughter
or daughters evenly to be departed. And if it fortune my daughter not
be a live at my said wives decease, then I will my wife departe to my
daughter's children at their ages in the form abovesaid as my said
master and daughter should do. And if my wife decease before their
lawfull age then that it may please her to put it in sure keeping to
the same intent.
I will that my wife have during her life my book of saints lives and
after her decease to my daughter during her life and after her decease
to her daughter Elizabeth, my wives goddaughter.
I will that when Master George, my godson, come to the age of xiiii
years that he have my primer of my own hand, my 'sauter', my book De
Regimine Principum of my own hand and my chain of gold. And if he be
not then on live, as God defend else, then I will that he have them
that shall be next heir male to my said Master Sir George.
I will that my brother, Edmond Wydwell, have my best ii gowns such as
he will chose or my wife to chose them for him if he come not there.
John Fenne my iiird gowne; Elizabeth Fenne my iiiith gown; William
Eton my v gown; Richard Hert my sixth gown; Robert Forde my viith
gown; John Gray my viii gown; Thomas my ix gown and Elizabeth my x
gown; John Cryer my xi gown. Every person to chose one after another
as I have set them in row, the gowns whole as they are furred and
lined.
And whereas that I have ordained in my will for my part of the ward
and marriage of Carew and his lands, which William Essex and I have
jointly of the kings grants as it appearith by the same will which I
have due to be cancelled in that part, I will that if my said cousin
Essex overlive me that he do therein after his discretion and
consience.
Also I will that all my servants of my household have long livery
gowns at Easter and their wages and all that shall ride with my body
to my burying short black gowns and their costs. And if Robert Fenne
will ride with them I will he shall have v marks, a gown and his
costs.
I will that Stephen, the son of John Somer, have v marks in x years if
he live so long.
I will that if John, the son of my master, Sir George Nevill, live to
the age of xxi years, then I will he shall have vi 'parys' cups gilt
with a covering if he be not his fathers heir. And if he be then his
fathers heir I will that William, his brother, have them if he live to
like age. And this to be done upon condition that my Master, Sir
George, be loving to my wife and interupt not my will.
The residue of my goods and 'catalx' I give and bequeath unto my
executors undernamed that they do and dispose for my soul after their
good consicence and discretions and as they would be done for in like
case and according to my said will. Of this my testament and last will
I make William Essex, Harry Heydon, Edmond Jenny and Edmond Wydwell my
executors, and Elianore, my wife, and William Jenney,Sergant of law
surveyors of the same.
Mentions his cousin William Allington in conjunction with the granting
of lands to the Universities of Oxenford and Cambridge.
And I will that as well my said manors, lands and tenements in Mekyll
Walsingham, Scoriston, Wyndham and Swaffeham, with their
appurtentances and my said tenements and chambers in Holborn at the
end of the terme of the said xii years after my decease, as my place
called the Boote in Smithfield, ii closes in Kentishton and my house
and lands in Hakeney after my wifes decease if she be not married and
find a good priest in form abovesaid or after the term of the said xii
years if she be married and find no priest, be severally sold by my
executoors for as much money as they shall mowe be sold for, and of
the money coming of the same sales I will by the hands of my executors
that my Master George Nevill, my godson, have when he come to his full
age of xxi years cc marcs and Master John, his brother, when he come
to his full age of xxi years cc marcs and master William, his brother,
at his full age of xxi years cli., and Mistress Elizabeth, their
sister, at the time of her marriage cli.
Mentions cousin Henry Bonds in conjuntion with the selling of the
patronage of the church of Henstede in the county of Suffolk.
will proved at Lambeth
John Higgins
on 6-12-03 by Frank Young, citing a pedigree on rootsweb.com (check the
archives). I have no idea which is more reliable, since neither provides
any sources, but I might give a slight edge to the ancestry.com pedigree.
John Higgins
"Who begot whom is a most amusing kind of hunting" - Horace Walpole
Douglas Richardson
> Dear Everyone ~
>
> The information below regarding Hugh at Fenne, father-in-law of Sir
> George Neville (died 1472), Lord Bergavenny, is found on the following
> website:
>
> http://awt.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=ancestorsearch&id=I3580
>
> Additional information regarding Hugh at Fenne's extended ancestry may
> be found on the above website.
>
> Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
>
> E-mail: royala...@msn.com
In my post above, I wrote that George Neville died in 1472. The
correct date is 1492.
DR
Douglas Richardson
I've determined that the information on Hugh atte Fenne and his will
which I found earlier this week on an online website was taken
primarily from the following source:
R. Virgoe, The Will of Hugh atte Fenne, 1476 (Norfolk Rec. Soc. 56)
(1991): 31–57.
I've since seen the piece by Virgoe. It is well researched and it
contains much additional information on Hugh atte Fenne not included
in the material which I found online. Among other particulars, it
notes that Hugh at Fenne was kinsman in some manner to Sir John
Falstaff, a prominent Norfolk man in this time period. I already
noted Hugh at Fenne's connection to the Paston family.
If anyone is interested in the Neville and at Fenne families, I
recommend they read Mr. Virgoe's material in full.
ADRIANC...@aol.com
Douglas Richardson wrote;
I am surprised to see Falstaff spelt this way, as I thought it was
Shakespeare who introduced this spelling. It is Fastolf in Paston's diaries. Anyway
John Paston (1420-1466), educated in law, was the main beneficiary of Sir John
Fastolf (-1459). I have seen it suggested that it was John Paston's wife
Margaret (d&h of John Mauteby of Mauteby, Norfolk by Margaret dau of John Berney)
who was probably kinswoman to Fastolf.
Adrian
Douglas Richardson
Thanks for providing the correct spelling of Fastolf. The error was
mine. I'm sure Virgoe spells the name Fastolf in his account on Hugh
at Fenne.
My children are descendants of Hugh at Fenne, so I have more than a
passing interest in this matter. Judging from Virgoe's comments, Hugh
at Fenne seems to have had an interesting career.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
E-mail: royala...@msn.com
ADRIANC...@aol.com wrote in message news:<24.564f7c8...@aol.com>...
Douglas Richardson
In my original post on Hugh at Fenne below, I stated that Hugh at
Fenne held the social rank of esquire. The record below dated 1472
from the A2A Catalogue (http://www.a2a.org.uk/search/index.asp)
indicates that Hugh at Fenne was only considered a gentleman in rank
in that year. There is no indication of his rank in the abstract of
his will dated 1476 published by Virgoe.
If anyone knows of other records which indicate Hugh at Fenne's social
rank, I'd appreciate it if they would post them here on the newsgroup.
Thanks!
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
E-mail: royala...@msn.com
- - - - - - -
ITEM FROM A2A CATALOGUE:
Norfolk Record Office: Mills of Hillborough, Norfolk
Reference Code: HIL
MILLS OF HILBOROUGH
Held at: Norfolk Record Office
Reference: HIL/1/56,870X1
Grant by Richard Curteys to Thomas Mason sen., John Hyppyswell and
John Thornton of all his lands etc. and liberty of one fold in
Hilborough formerly John Bray's, messuage called Gall' and 18a. in the
East Field.
Creation dates: 6 December 1469
Extent and Form: 1 parchment
Physical characteristics: seal
Reference: HIL/1/57,870X1
Feoffment by grantees as in last to John Hewer, Hugh Fen gent., Thomas
Caton and John Kytte of property as in last.
Creation dates: 31 October 1472
Extent and Form: 1 parchment
royala...@msn.com (Douglas Richardson) wrote in message news:<5cf47a19.04051...@posting.google.com>...
> Papers of the 15th Century 2 (1976): 139?140].
Cristopher Nash
atte Fenne, I'm intrigued by your sightings of Hugh's 'kinsman,
William Jenney...Sergant of law< and of >Edmund Jenney, knight<, one
of his executors. I'd be grateful to know whether these may be - or
be related to -
Sir William Jenny of Knotishall & Theberton, Suff
b. bef 1421
d. 23 Dec 1483
[m. Elizabeth Cawse]
| Sir Edmund Jenny of Knotishall & Theberton, Suff
| d. 26 Jun 1523
| [m. Katherine Boyse/Boyes]
- and, if so, in what way they might be kinsmen of Hugh atte Fenne ?
Many thanks!
Cris
--
Tim Powys-Lybbe
> Dear Newsgroup ~
>
> In my original post on Hugh at Fenne below, I stated that Hugh at
> Fenne held the social rank of esquire. The record below dated 1472
> from the A2A Catalogue (http://www.a2a.org.uk/search/index.asp)
> indicates that Hugh at Fenne was only considered a gentleman in rank
> in that year. There is no indication of his rank in the abstract of
> his will dated 1476 published by Virgoe.
>
> If anyone knows of other records which indicate Hugh at Fenne's social
> rank, I'd appreciate it if they would post them here on the newsgroup.
> Thanks!
I would hardly describe these sorts of things as rank, let alone title.
The English practice was to call themselves whatever they could get away
with and there was nothing formal about esquire or gent. You just have
to look at the susequent Visitation records of the 16th and 17th
centuries; people would cheerfully give disclaimers as armigers to
avoid paying the fees. The English, after all, had no concept of a
separate class of nobles, unlike most continental European countries.
So there was mobility within the social mileau, perhaps the strength of
England, avoiding ossification.
Unless you know different, of course.
--
Tim Powys-Lybbe t...@powys.org
For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org
Tony Ingham
From The Merchant Class of Medieval London
John Fenne, stockfishmonger, making his will in 1474, left £200 to
his brother Hugh, described as "Clerke," and £100 to his "worshipful
cousin" Hugh Fenn, gentleman, an official of the royal household, to be
an executor and to act as guardian of two children.
(Will of John Fenne P.C.C. Wattys 17)
......................
This John Fenne was the second husband of Elizabeth Croke, widow of
Thomas Ryche, mercer of London.
After his death 3 Sep 1474, Elizabeth married as her third husband
William Stonor of Stonor Oxford. She died aft. 15 Oct 1479 and William
Stonor on 21 May 1494.
'The Stonor Letters and Papers' provides us with a wonderful insight
into the lives of Elizabeth, her family and business associates.
Tony Ingham
Leo van de Pas
Many thanks for this message. I tried to see whether I could add anything to
this, but only landed on the Stonor family.
Cahiers de Saint Louis (good as indication) tells how
Anne Nevill died before 1486, she had married (no date) Sir William Stonor,
who died in 1494, was son of Thomas and Joan de La Pole, he had married
before (1) Elizabeth Ryche and (2) Agnes Wydeslade.
You have this Elizabeth Ryche as Croke, so she should be the same.
Also Sir William and his 3rd wife had a son John, born in 1482, married but
should have died before his father (making this John about 12 at the most);
and a daughter, Anne, who died in 1518, had married Adrian Fortescue, who
was beheaded in the Tower in 1539.
Anne Stonor and Adrian Fortescue had two daughters, Margaret and Frances.
Frances was childless but Margaret has many interesting descendants.
Sir William Stonor died in 1494, and Burke's Peerage tells how his brother,
Thomas, was his heir---even though Sir William has descendants till the
present.
Margaret Fortescue is an ancestor of Gateways Afra, John and Elizabeth
Harleston, but also of many Dukes and Earls and
Sir Winston Churchill
Lady Diana Spencer
Sarah Ferguson
Bertrand Russell
2nd Duke of Gloucester
Rachel Ward
Edith Sitwell
Best wishes
Leo van de Pas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Ingham" <nugg...@hotkey.net.au>
To: <GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 1:13 PM
Subject: Re: C.P. Addition/Correction: Neville- Fenne
Douglas Richardson
Thank you for sharing this information with the newsgroup. Much appreciated.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
E-mail: royala...@msn.com
nugg...@hotkey.net.au (Tony Ingham) wrote in message news:<40A97F7...@hotkey.net.au>...