Not another Royal Bastard?

[Leo]

In the Sydney Morning Herald of 15 September appeared the obituary for Stephen Gibbes 1953-2011 a journalist and political adviser. "He devoted more than 30 years to research and wrote a scholarly draft of a book that centred on the figure of his direct ancestor, Colonel John George Nathaniel Gibbes."

Colonel Gibbes was the illegitimate son of the Duke of York..................

In 1834 Colonel Gibbes 1787-1873 moved to Australia where for 25 years he was in NSW Collector of Customs.

This last piece of information made me wonder whether there was anything to be found by Googling him and, yes, there is a lot. When I Googled him I found information about him and all his children but also in his entry there was that mention of him being a possible son of the Duke of York but also all supposed illegitimate children of that Duke of York :
Capt. Charles Hesse ca.1786-1832
Col.John George Nathaniel Gibbes 1787-1873
Capt.John Molloy 1788/9-1867
Frederick George Vandiest 1800-1848
Louisa Ann Vandiest 1802-1890

The last two apparently by the same mother.

If all correct that means that male line descendants (apart from the House of Hannover) can be found for George III till today in the Gibbes family.

With best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia

[Tony Hoskins]

I would be interested in seeing the source (obviously something more than Mr. Gibbes statements) claiming this Gibbes child was a bastard of the Duke of York.

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[Hovite]

On Sep 21, 9:40 pm, "Leo" <can2...@netspeed.com.au> wrote:
> In the Sydney Morning Herald of 15 September appeared the obituary for Stephen Gibbes 1953-2011 a journalist and political adviser. "He devoted more than 30 years to research and wrote a scholarly draft of a book that centred on the figure of his direct ancestor, Colonel John George Nathaniel Gibbes."
>
> Colonel Gibbes was the illegitimate son of the Duke of York..................

Is there any evidence that the Duke of York ever met Mrs Gibbes? The
child was born in London five months before the Duke of York returned
from six years in Germany.

[Turenne]

According to Anthony J. Camp, the following were the mistresses and
confirmed/unconfirmed bastards of Frederick, Duke of York:

1780-1. Letitia, Lady Lade
1781. Lady Melbourne
Frederic James Lamb [? uncertain]
1780s. Lady Archer
Before 1784. Eleanor Lacoast
1786-7. Mother of Charles Hesse
Charles Hesse [? uncertain]
1786-7. Agnes Gibbes
John George Nathaniel Gibbes [fiction]
1799. 'Convenient Wife'
1788-9. Countess of Tyrconnel
1788. Housemaid
1789. Mother of John Molloy
John Molloy [? uncertain]
1789-90. Mary, Duchess of Rutland
1791. Frederica, Princess Royal of Prussia
and
Culling Charles Smith
1790s. Mother of John Stilwell
John Stilwell [? uncertain]
1793-4. Mother of Richard Lifford
Richard Lifford [? uncertain]
after 1795. Cooke and Creswell
1799-1802. Ann Hart or Vandiest
Frederick George Vandiest [fact]
Louisa Ann Vandiest, Mrs Charles Crokat
[fact]
1802. Lucy Sinclair Sutherland
1803-6. Mrs Mary Anne Clarke
George Nowell William Clarke [fiction]
Ellen Cecily Clarke, Mrs Lewis Mathurin
Busson du Maurier [fiction]
1806-27. Mrs Elizabeth Cary
c.1812. Kate North
1817. Mrs Mary White
Eleanor White, Mrs Robert Harfield
[fiction]
1818-25. Elizabeth, Duchess of Rutland
1827. Unknown Women

Busy chap!

RL

[Turenne]

On 22 Sep, 20:20, Johnny Brananas <ravinmaven2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > According to Anthony J. Camp, the following were the mistresses and
> > confirmed/unconfirmed bastards of Frederick, Duke of York:
>
> > 1780-1. Letitia, Lady Lade
> > 1781. Lady Melbourne
> >                             Frederic James Lamb [? uncertain]
> > 1780s. Lady Archer
> > Before 1784. Eleanor Lacoast
>

> Is this where Maria Louisa LaCoast fits in?  I thought her mother was
> Almeria somebody.

Louisa Maria la Coast was born illegitimately on 6 January 1782. She
married Lt.-Gen. Godfrey Bosville Macdonald, 3rd Baron Macdonald of
Slate, son of Alexander Macdonald, 1st Baron Macdonald of Slate and
Elizabeth Diana Bosville, on 29 December 1803 at Norwich, Norfolk,
England. She died on 10 February 1835 at age 53 at Bossall, Yorkshire,
England.
She was also known as Louisa Maria Carpenter. She was the daughter of
William Henry Hanover, 1st Duke of Gloucester and Lady Almeria
Carpenter, d. of George Carpenter, 1st Earl of Tyrconnell.

There seems to be some confusion between Eleanor/Almeira, LaCoast/
Carpenter and Gloucester/York.

I'll see what more I can find out...

RL

[John]

CP 8:340 sub Macdonald of Slate has a useful footnote on Louisa Maria
La Coast [or Laccoast] discussing her parentage, both as originally
recorded and as later discussed in proceedings in the Court of
Session, Edinburgh, regarding the legitimacy of her eldest son (who
was born before his parents' marriage). At her birth she was recorded
as daughter of "Farley Edsir", steward to the Duke of Gloucester, but
she was described in the court proceedings as the illegitimate
daughter of the Duke by Almeria Carpenter.

[Tony Hoskins]

The search for the origin of a rumor. As I recall, there seems to have been a number of soi-disant Hanoverian bastards claims "down under". Of course, rumors are inadequate till something more substantial comes to light.

I think much more fertile ground for "bastards among us" might be to start in Coburg, Germany with the apparently numerous bastards of Prince Albert's brother, Duke Ernst of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha (1818-1893). Theo Aronson, in his excellent biography of Princess Alice, Countess of Athlone, indicated that Princess Alice and the rest of the family were very aware of (and mildly amused by) the number of bastard cousins - offspring of Gute Onkel Ernst - walking the streets of Coburg in the early 1900s.

T.

Anthony Hoskins
History and Genealogy Librarian
Sonoma County Archivist
211 E Street
Santa Rosa, California 95404

707/545-0831, ext. 562

[julian...@gmail.com]

yes..captain George Gosling RNKH

[gosling...@gmail.com]

who knows about it?