FW: Descent from Jarl Haakon Paulsson (was Re: Somerled's mother-in-law)

[Clagett, Brice]

-----Original Message-----
From: Clagett, Brice
Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 12:59 PM
To: 'The...@aol.com'
Subject: RE: Descent from Jarl Haakon Paulsson (was Re: Somerled's
mother-in-law)

This is very interesting, but there seem to be problems at several steps
along the way.

1. As you know, both SP 1:416 and CP 1:304 think it probable that
Malcolm, 2d Earl of Atholl, was daughter of Madadh by a wife prior to
Margaret. Unfortunately they don't state their reasoning. You have
stated yours, and if it is clear that Henry was older than Malcolm and
Margaret was both Henry's mother and Madadh's widow, then you seem to
have a strong case.

2. I assume the Pudsey descent you mention is through Ralph Eure and his
wife Isabella, daughter of Sir Aymer de Atholl. But SP 1:430 says of
Isabella and her sister: "It is doubtful if these daughters had issue,
as in 1402 Elizabeth, Lady Scrope, is described as the heir of her
[great-] uncle Adomar."

3. The Gascoigne descent you mention must come through the marriage of
Sir William Gascoigne (1403/4-146l/2) and Margaret Clarell. But I have
seen two versions of Margaret's parentage; some sources say she was
daughter of Thomas Clarell and Elizabeth Scrope, but others say she was
sister of that Thomas and daughter of Thomas Clarell and Maud
Montgomery, which would exclude the Atholl descent. Chronology may
resolve this problem, but before I dig into it I'd be glad to know
whether you have done so or have any firm proof that the later
Gascoignes were descended from Elizabeth Scrope and hence from the
earls of Atholl.

-----Original Message-----
From: The...@aol.com [mailto:The...@aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 1:34 PM
To: GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com; Clagett, Brice
Subject: Descent from Jarl Haakon Paulsson (was Re: Somerled's
mother-in-law)

Monday, 27 September, 2004

Dear Brice, et al.,

In addition to the claimed descent of Ragnhild, wife of Somerled,
from Jarl Haakon Paulsson of Orkney (d. 1126), there is another Scots
avenue for such a descent.

As discussed (if not fully) in a prior SGM thread [1], Madadh mac
Maelmare, earl of Athol (d. bef 1152) was married to Margaret, daughter
of Jarl Haakon and sister of Ingeborg. Harald Maddadsson, the (or an)
older son of Madadh and Margaret, was taken to the Orkneys when his
uncle Jarl Paul (brother of Margaret) was supplanted, and allegedly
imprisoned with his sister's connivance [Orkneyinga Saga, chapters
74-75]. Madadh was succeeded as earl of Athol by his son Malcolm, whom
I believe was also a son of Margaret:

1. There is no evidence of another wife of Madadh besides
Margaret;

2. Margaret is recorded as being Madadh's widow; it is therefore
unlikely we would find a child, younger than Harald,
succeeding Madadh as earl of Athol who was not his legitimate
son;

3. Chronologically it seems most probable that Malcom mac Madadh
was born to Margaret between 1139 and 1153; his one known wife
Hextilda of Tynedale (widow of Richard Comyn) was likely born
ca. 1150, given the number of children she gave to Malcolm
following their marriage ca. 1182 (after giving many children
to her former Comyn husband).

4. We have record of a sister of Malcolm mac Madadh named
Margaret [" Margareta soror ejus ", Liber Vitae Dunelmensis,
vol. 13, p. 100], who would seem most likely to have been
a daughter of Madadh and Margaret. *There are several other
siblings, but no onomastic evidence is provided by their
names either way.

Among the issue of Malcolm mac Madadh and Hextilda of Tynedale, a
son 'Kelhathoni' is held to have been the Gillechattan from whom later
chiefs of Clan Chattan descended. More historically to the point,
Malcolm's son and successor Henry, earl of Athol (d. bef 1211) was the
ancestor of the Strathbogie Earls of Athol [from whom descend Dawnay of
Sessay and Cowick, Gascoigne of Gawthorpe, the Lords Burgh of
Gainsborough and the Pudseys of Barford] and the Cunningham Earls of
Glencairn [Scots.]. This is not to mention, the late Queen Mother, her
daughter Queen Elizabeth II, and a host of others....

Perhaps you have a Scots descent from Jarl Haakon through one of
the above routes.....?

Cheers,

John

NOTES

[1] <Re: Liber Vitae and the Earls of Athol (was Re: Liber
Vitae ... Bigod)>, SGM, August 2002