John le Strange & Maud Pauncefote

[Herb Frantz]

Thomas Carew of Moulsford; b. abt. 1292 d.aft.1337 married Maud Pauncefote
between 1323 -1328. Maud previously married John le Strange as her first
husband.

1. Please identify which (I've got eleven already)John le Strange married
Maud Pauncefote.
2. Who were Maud's parents ?

Thanks in advance,
Herb Frantz

[Richard Borthwick]

A quick look at CP XII/1 and CP XIV yielded this info. There was a John
lord Strange who d.on or before 18 May 1323 and who had a wife, Maud, who
survived him. No affiliation for Maud is given or suggested and there is no
mention of a second marriage. She was living 18 May 1324. [CP XII/1:353].
This find has the merit of giving a John/Maud pair in the right time frame,
but that is not much if you have another ten such!

There was a Thomas Carew who held Moulsford in 1331. He was brother of John
Carew (d.1324), of Moulsford. It appears from VCH that Moulsford did not
pass to Thomas' children if he had any such but to his nephew, John, son of
John (d.1324) by his second wife, Joan. [VCH Berks III:505-506]. Is this
your Thomas?

I would be most interested to know your source(s) for these marriages and
identifications. It might be of help in the search.

[RBodine996]

>Thomas Carew of Moulsford; b. abt. 1292 d.aft.1337 married Maud Pauncefote
>between 1323 -1328. Maud previously married John le Strange as her first
>husband.
>
>1. Please identify which (I've got eleven already)John le Strange married
>Maud Pauncefote.
>2. Who were Maud's parents ?
>
>Thanks in advance,
>Herb Frantz
>

The claimed first husband of Maud was Sir John le Strange, 3rd Lord Strange of
Knockyn, who died 1323. Maud then married Thomas Carew and in 1327/8 they sued
for dower, the cited source for this latter event being 'Placita de Banco
1327/8.'

Maud was the daughter of Sir Grimbald Pauncefote, probably he who held Wytton,
Worcestershire and Hasfeld, Gloucestershire, and who died 1308-1314. There are
lengthy accounts of two such men in Knights of Edward I, vol. 4, p. 10-11.

Thomas Carew, by his unnamed first wife, was the father of Nicholas Carew of
Beddington who died 1390. By Maud Pauncefote, he had Sir William and Hugh, as
both held lands of Grymbald Pauncefote in later years and Thomas did not.

The evidence that Thomas Carew was the son of Sir Nicholas Carew (c1265-1311)
is a 1349 deed cited in Catalogue of Ancient Deeds, vol. 3, A4007.

For an account of the Carews see "The Origin of the Carews" by J. Horace Round
in The Ancestor, April 1903, p. 19-53 and "The Ancestry of the Carews of
Beddington, Surrey and the Tuite Quartering of Carew," by Patrick
Montague-Smith, F.S.G. in Report No. 17 of The Friends of Lydiard Tregoz, 1984.

Ronny Bodine

[Norma Rudinsky]

While the several Johns le Strange are up for consideration, does someone
know which one was the father of the Elizabeth who married Run ap Enion in
the pedigree of Hugh Vaughan and the Golden Grove Vaughans?

The above information is from the Lewys Dwnn pedigree in vol.2, p.27,
though in vol.1, p.213, he gives Run's wife as "Sioned ferch Iarll
Ystraens o Knokyn" which the editor's note explains as "Probably Gwy le
Strange of the time of Henry II, one of whose daughters married Griffith
ap Iorwerth. See Dugdale's Baronage, Vol.I,p.664."

And speaking of the Vaughans, is there any truth in the saying that all
the Vaughans and all the Herberts of South Wales descend from Gladys,
daughter of Sir David Gam, through her marriages to Roger Vaughan and then
to William Herbert of Raglan? (I can't fit the Kidwelly/Golden Grove
Vaughans into the Roger of Bredwardine line, and haven't even started on
the Herberts.)

Thanks for any info.

Norma Leigh Rudinsky

rudi...@ucs.orst.edu

[Richard Borthwick]

J E Griffith *Pedigrees of Anglesey and Carnarvonshire Families with their
Collateral Branches in Denbighshire, Merionethshire and other parts*
(Horncastle, Lincs, 1914), p.291 recites a pedigree for Vaughan of Golden
Grove. He repeats the information you give but gives 1196 as the date of
death of Einion Efell father of Rhun ab Einion. This might suggest that
John (I) Lestrange (d.1178) might be a plausible candidate for the father
of Rhun's alleged Lestrange wife [CP XII/1:348-349]. She is called
Elizabeth by Griffith but he remarks that in some books she is called
'Jonet'. He also says that she was the dau. of John lord Strange of Knokyn,
but this is not correct. There were no peers by writ until about 100 years
later. I have my doubts about Griffith's early pedigrees, though his later
material is often cited by respectable scholars. Someone with more
expertise in this field than I may give you a more judicious view.

[Robert O'Connor]

I descend from both the Carew & Pauncefote families.

Maud's father must have been the Sir Grimbald Pauncefote who died in 1287,
father of Sir Grimbald who d 1314.

This is because according to the Inquistion Post Mortem of Sir Grimbald d
1314 his heir was his brother Sir Emeric Pauncefote d Dec. 1332.

There is a good article on the Pauncefotes in the publication entitled
Transactions of the Bristol & Gloucestershire Archaeological Society, Vol.
71 (1952), pp 123-137. Unfortunately it does not mention Maud (M Strange &
Carew)

If anyone is interested in the Pauncefote family I can send them a copy of
my Pauncefote genealogy - a MS Word 97 file.

--
Robert O'Connor
roco...@es.co.nz
Christchurch
New Zealand