CP Correction: Sir William Astley, father of Joan (Astley) Grey
Chris Phillips
<<
VCH Warwick cites Dugdale, 110 and 117, as a source for the Astley
family. This is evidently Dugdale's Warwickshire, a copy of which
seems not to be available here in Salt Lake City. If anyone has
access to a copy of this book, I'd appreciate it if they could post a
copy of the Astley material here on the newsgroup.
>>
I looked at Dugdale yesterday. What I saw was the British Library's copy of
the 1765 edition, which includes many annotations, apparently from the early
19th century, and also - I was amazed to see - the odd leaf of medieval
manuscript bound in for illustration.
The page-numbering in this edition is obviously different from that in the
one used by VCH, but from the context of the VCH citations, it's clearly the
account of Astley itself that's being referred to.
The relevant parts seem to be:
(i) On p. 74 a chart pedigree of the Astleys. This lists three children of
Thomas de Astley, founder of the collegiate church of Astley and Elizabeth
the daughter of Guy de Beauchamp, earl of Warwick, namely William de Astley,
knight, 11 R. 2; Thomas de Astley, knight, 2 R 2 (from whom Astley of
Patshull in the county of Stafford) and Giles de Astley of Wolvey, 18 R 2.
William de Astley has a daughter Joan, dead 27 H 6, married firstly to
Thomas Ralegh and also to Reginald Grey of Ruthin, knight 13 R 2.
(ii) On p. 77 the latest reference to Thomas is as a JP 35 E III [1361 or
1362]. [VCH vi 283 has him holding a fee in Wolvey as late as 137]
(iii) On p. 78, William Astley's public career is recounted, starting in a
commission of the peace 17 R 2 [1393 or 1394].
(iv) Among monuments in the choir of the church, before the removal of the
chapel on the south side, was one bearing this epitaph:
"Ex Astley domo Miles fuit iste Willielmus
Heres magnanimus Thome Astley vir almus.
Hic fundatoris fuit largus hospes bonoris
Et dignus mores strenuus sequitur genitoris
Migravit celis animarum luce
M C. quater & his Domino regnante peeni"
This is corrected by the annotator "by Dugdale's Notes from those of W.W.
[Wm Wyrley] and W. Belcher" to read:
"Ex Asteley domo Miles fuit iste Willelmus
Heres magnanimus Asteley Thome vir almus.
Hic fundatoris fuit largus hospes bonoris
Et dignus memorie strenuus sequitur genitoris
Migravit celis animarum luce
M C. quater & his Domino regnante p[er]enni"
I have been struggling to make sense of this and would welcome a second
opinion, but it does seem to be telling us not only that William was the
"heir" of Thomas, but that Thomas was his "genitor" - father (unless it can
have a more general meaning?).
On the date of death, this looks like one of those irritating examples where
the century was put in during the lifetime of the person commemorated, but
the date was not completed after death. The MS notes point out that he was
still alive in 1418; elsewhere his death is put at 1420 (I'm not sure what
the evidence is).
Apart from this, as pointed out before, the chronology does seem to leave
plenty of room for a missing generation. Thomas was of age in 1326,
therefore born 1305 or before. CP hints that he may have had a first wife
Margaret in 1334, but in any case his wife Elizabeth Beauchamp would have
been born 1310-1316, as John P. Ravilious pointed out. So on Douglas
Richardson's estimate of the early 1380s for the birth of William's daughter
Joan, that would be about 70 years from Elizabeth Beauchamp's birth, which
looks more like 3 generations than two.
There is also the statement of the VCH (vi 283) that Thomas's son Sir
William died in 1387-8. This is said in mentioning the gift of the manor of
Wolvey to William's brother Giles (no date given). The source for this gift
is Dugdale (presumably his account of Wolvey). It's not clear where this
1387-8 date comes from - maybe it comes from Dugdale too. It has to be said
that many of the statements that CP makes in its Astley account are very
thinly documented, and maybe things would become clearer if the sources were
followed up.
Chris Phillips
Chris Phillips
> (ii) On p. 77 the latest reference to Thomas is as a JP 35 E III [1361 or
> 1362]. [VCH vi 283 has him holding a fee in Wolvey as late as 137]
Sorry, that should have been "as late as 1371".
However, this from the online PRO catalogue, seems to show him living as
late as 1378 or 1379:
C 143/394/3
Thomas de Astelee, knight, to grant the advowson of the church of Crick to
the dean, two canons, three vicars, two perpetual chaplains, and one clerk,
of his college at Astley, to be appropriated by them. N'hamp.
2 RICHARD II.
Chris Phillips