CP XIV: BALLIOL

[Richard Borthwick]

I have a reply from the editor of XIV. The relevant excepts follow.

"Many thanks for your message about note (c) at CP vol 1 p.386. My
reference to this in volume 14 is correct, it is a 'housekeeping'
correction, to reflect the fact that the Appendix it refers to was in fact
omitted from the final volume - the editors at the time felt that the point
was adequately covered by
Appendix H in volume 4.

"I had not noticed, although should have done, that it has been reasonably
established that note (d) is wrong and that 'sisters' should read 'aunts'.
There seems no doubt about this and I believe it may be a proof reading
error in the original CP since if they had been sisters of Edward Baliol
his peerage by writ would not have become extinct at his death (as CP says)
but would (presumably) have fallen into abeyance. The Scots Peerage only
mentions the sons of John Baliol, not his daughters, but does agree (vol.
1, p.508), that the daughter who married John Comyn was named Eleanor."

[elizabeth abbott]

So glad Richard took the time to find this out. I have a message from a
correspondent that Alison Weir's "Royal Families" gives King John Balliol
three or maybe four children:
Edward dc 1363
Henry killed in battle 1332
Margaret died unmarried - no dates given
Anne (?) May have married Brian FitzAlan of Bedale - if she really existed.
(I don't know if this is an exact quote).

I found an entry in "Historical Documents of Scotland 1286-1306 Vol. I
(available UBC library call # DA757 B1 870) by Reverend Joseph Stevenson:
"1294 May 16: John Balliol, King of Scotland, authorizes payment of Dower of
Princess Margaret of Scotland." Balliol's son, Prince Edward Baliol was
betrothed in 1295 to Margaretha of Tarentum, Italy; could this refer to her,
or possibly a dau. of kjb? It does seem - and maybe someone could explain
this to me - that sometimes Ellen seems to be a nickname for Margaret. There
is a strange - and to almost everyone who has read it - a suspicious entry
for a line I have been working on which mentions an Ellen Balliol, daughter
of King John, marrying a member of the Jermy family. This is mentioned in
Anthony Norris' genealogy which I have not seen, but quoted in Rye, who
"discarded" the idea. However, as the material presented in the whole line
seems otherwise accurate it seems a very strange thing to have tacked on to
the family tree and I have been fascinated by this for years. If anyone
would like to see the Jermy family tree which I have been working on, and
comment on this, I would be happy to email what I have done so far. I'm
confused about the comment that it was a daughter of KJB who married John
Comyn; isn't it King John Balliol's sister who married John Comyn?

What surprises me is that no-one caught the error as to KJB having at least
one daughter, in CP thus far, or sent in a correction, until Richard
Borthwick; thanks Richard!

Best regards,

Liz

[U...@aol.com]

In a message dated 8/22/00 8:58:53 AM Central Daylight Time,
abbo...@tallships.ca writes:

<< I would be happy to email what I have done so far. I'm
confused about the comment that it was a daughter of KJB who married John
Comyn; isn't it King John Balliol's sister who married John Comyn? >>

CP 1:386 [d] corrected shows a sister of King John, Mary, wife of John Comyn
of Badenoch.

Always optimistic--Dave

[U...@aol.com]

In a message dated 8/22/00 8:58:53 AM Central Daylight Time,
abbo...@tallships.ca writes:

<< Anne (?) May have married Brian FitzAlan of Bedale - if she really existed.
(I don't know if this is an exact quote). >>

CP 1:386 [d] corrected, says "Some genealogists add [but in error] a fifth
sister [corrected to aunt] Anne, wife of Brian Fitz Alan of Bedale; see under
Fitz Alan of Bedale."

CP 4:639+ shows Brian m. 1stly Muriel, and 2ndly Maud.

Always optimistic--Dave

[Séimí mac Liam]

<U...@aol.com> wrote in message news:c.9bdd985...@aol.com...

> In a message dated 8/22/00 8:58:53 AM Central Daylight Time,
> abbo...@tallships.ca writes:
>

> << I would be happy to email what I have done so far. I'm
> confused about the comment that it was a daughter of KJB who
married John
> Comyn; isn't it King John Balliol's sister who married John Comyn?
>>
>
>
> CP 1:386 [d] corrected shows a sister of King John, Mary, wife of
John Comyn
> of Badenoch.
>

In that case I have her as Alianora and that would make her husband
the Black Comyn, the one who was stabbed by Robbie Bruce. This is
from AR7(Weis calls her Eleanor) where Weis cites SP I 507-508 , IV
143 and CP I 386 note d. Would it be possible for some one with
access to the Scots Peerage and CP to scan the pages in so I can sort
this out?

--
Saint Séimí mac Liam
Carriagemaker to the court of Queen Maeve
My eyes are hazel as well as my nuts"
Canonized December '99