Sir Francis Bryan and wife Joan FitzGerald (long)

[Beth Sloan]

I have a genealogy book called THE SPEAR AND THE SPINDLE...which gives the
ancestors of Sir Francis Bryan and then tries to list some of his
descendants. The following is a quote from Pgs. 47-48. According to this
source, Francis Bryan does have issue, which I hope is true since I have
claimed him through Morgan Bryan of Pa & NC. The line is followed past the
1600 cutoff for this list so I only went to 1650. There is much information
about the ancestors of Francis Bryan since that is the main focus of the
text. The book was complied by T.A. Fuller and printed by Heritage Books in
1993. I have put the full title at the end of this email. It is one of the
longest titles I have ever seen!

"Bryan, Sir Francis (d. 1550)
knight Banneret; Chevallier; Baronet; Lord of Tor Bryan; poet and
translator; chief gentleman of the privy chamber (appointed 1536) and close
friend of Henry VIII; he was a somtime commander of the English Army in
Ireland, admiral of the fleet, and in 1548 was knighted for bravery in
Brittany (Briaiana). On Shrove Tuesday 1526, he lost an eye in a jousting
tournament (Starkey, David, HENRY VIII, A EUROPEAN COURT IN ENGLAND, 1991,
PG. 47).

In a box in center of page:

Sir Francis Byran (b. 1490).........Sir Thomas Bryan
Margaret "Lady Bryan"
Bourchier

Text again:
His sister Elizabeth m. Nicholas Carewe, Kt, who was executed in 1539; his
sister Margaret (d. by 1521) m. Henry Guildford, Kt (d. 1532).

Byan m. (l) after 1517 Philippa (d. aft 1534) widow of Sir John Fortescue
and daughter of Sir John Montgomery of Scotland; by this marriage he came
into the possession of Faulkbourne Hall. m (2) bef Aug. 1548 (CP Ormond
section) Joan Fitzgerald, daughter of James Fitzgerald, Earl of Desmond.
Joan was countess and dowager of Ormond.

Bryan was present with Henry VIII in 1520 at the Field of Cloth of Gold. In
1528, Henry sent Bryan to Rome to obtain papal sanction for his divorce from
his queen, Catherine of Aragon, in order that he might marry Anne Boleyn.
The mission, of course, failed.

During Henry's courtship of Anne Boleyn, Bryan was an advocate of his
rising"cousin," as he called her. He was of the group that had its center
in Anne Boleyn. Henry VIII's lasting affection of Bryan and Bryan's own
sense of self preservation protected him during the time of downfall of
Henry's second queen; while others literally lost their heads because of
Henry's determination to rid himself of Anne, Bryan came through unscathed.

He was present 15 Oct 1537 for the christening of Prince Edward, Henry's son
by Jane Seymour and afterwards Edward VI. He was among the group that met
Henry's fourth wife, Anne of Cleves, at Calais and escorted her into
England. He was a member of parliament of Buckinghamshire in 1542 and 1544
and in Feb. 1547 at the funeral of Henry VIII.

Bef 28 Aug 1548 Bryan m. Joan daughter of James FitzMaurice (FitzGerald),
10th earl of Desmond (CP, Ormond section). This was a political marriage
intended to prevent Joan from marrying with Gerald FitzGerald, the heir of
the 15th Earl of Desmond, a marriage that would have united two chief Irish
noble houses. Bryan became Lord Marshal of Ireland and in the following
year was elected Lord Justice. Two months later, on 2 Feb 1550, Byan
suddenly died at Clonmel. An autopsy was performed, but the cause of death
was not discovered. Within a year, Joan married Gerald."

In Appendix B, the author lists as the descendants of Franics Bryan the
following which she took from MacKenzie's COLONIAL FAMILES (vol.II, Bryan
section). T.A. Fuller states that the names are presented as "possible
working clues for the reader."

Sir Francis Bryan m. (1) Philippa, daughter of Sir John Montgomery
His son by first marriage was
Edmund Brian of Tor Brian in Devon. His eldest son

Robert Bryan of Tor Brian. m. Eleanor, the daughter of Thomas Bendish of
Bumpstead. His eldest son

John Bryant of Tor Brian m. Rose, the daughter of John Church of Erles,
Colne, Co. Esses. His eldest son

John Bryant of Tor Brian m. Grace Wrayford. He was ancestor of

John Bryant of Bampton, Co. Devon. Will proved 1641"

WHITIFELD, BRYAN AND SMITH AND RELATED FAMILIES. (Vol II, pgs 157, 407-408)

Edmund Bryan, son of Sir Francis Bryan m. Margaret Courtney. They lived at
Tor Bryan in Devonshire

Robert Bryan, Esq. (b. 1548) m. Elizabeth Livingston.

Thomas Bryan, Esq. m. (1) ? (2) Margaret Compton. Lived in Aylesbury, Co.
Buckingham.

Guy Bryan (b. 1601) m Rebecca Kirkman. Lived at Aylesbury. Whitfield says he
was a merchant

The complier, T. Fuller includes information on Joan FitzGerald and I am
including some of the more colorful parts..this is the line from which I
think I descend.
"
....Joan FitzGerald...was the widow of James Butler....This James Butler,
called "the Lame" died 28 Oct 1546, London, from poison taken at a supper on
Oct 17. His steward and sixteen of his servants reportedly died of the same
(CP, Ormand section, Pg. 144). It is interesting to note that not only did
her first husband die unpleasantly, Sir Francis Bryan died of unknown causes
while it is said, Joan was seeing Gerald FitzJames, the Rebel Earl who would
become her third husband. There was no issue of the third marriage. Joan
died 2 Jan 1564/65. There was no mystery of FitzGerald's death,..he was
attainted, chased down and on 11 Nov 1583 slain, and his head sent to Queen
Elizabeth...."

."....Thomas R. Bryan in THE NAME AND FAMILY OF BRYAN OR BRIAN (p. ix)
states that Sir Francis Bryan had issue of a son named Francis by his second
wife....The young Francis Bryan held lands in the County of Clare, Ireland;
married an Ann Smith, and had a son William or William Smith Bryan who was
deported in 1650 by Cromwell. "

I have more information on the above line if anyone is interested.

Full title of the work from which my information was taken: (My email won't
underline)

The Spear and the Spindle. Ancestors of Sir Francis Bryan (d. 1550), Kt.,
Chief Gentleman of the Privy Chamber for Henry VIII of England

Bryan, Bourchier, Bohun, FitzAlan and Others

Including Kings and Queens of England, France, and Other Countries
Some Magna Charta Sureties

and Some Descendants Including Those Commonly Believed to be Ancestors of
Rebecca Bryan (m. Daniel Boone)
____

Beth Sloan
e...@coam.net

[Ali...@aol.com]

Beth:

This Joan Fitzgerald sounds like the Lucretia Borgia of Ireland. Do you know
if she was ever confronted or punished for all these poisonings? I guess she
must not have liked the idea of arranged marriages and she REALLY wanted to
marry Cousin Gerald.

Alix V

[ED MANN]

Beth Sloan wrote:
>
> I have a genealogy book called THE SPEAR AND THE SPINDLE...which gives the
> ancestors of Sir Francis Bryan and then tries to list some of his
> descendants.

Thanks!

--
FWIW; AFAIK; IMHO; YMMV; yadda, yadda, yadda.

Regards, Ed Mann mailto:edl...@mail2.lcia.com

[ED MANN]

Beth Sloan wrote:
>
> I have a genealogy book called THE SPEAR AND THE SPINDLE...

I found a short description at:

http://www.lostintime.com/catalog/books/booktop/bo06000.htm

[Reedpcgen]

I've looked into the early Pennsylvania records associated with the claimed
origins of the Boones, Bryans, etc. There were many Welsh men of the same
names in the Quaker records, etc., at the period those first generations were
supposed to have settled in PA. I'd be very interested to know what specific
evidence identifies the immigrant with his claimed parents. Not to be
critical, just practical.

pcr

[ED MANN]

My line of descent doesn't go through Wales, but supposedly directly
from England to North Carolina. My line of descent is through Sir
Francis' 1st wife, Philippa Montgomery. I've not directly examined the
documents myself, however.

[monsieurle...@gmail.com]

Le samedi 5 décembre 1998 02:00:00 UTC-6, Beth Sloan a écrit :

Hi, Beth. I am very interested in the descendants of Sir Francis Bryan and Joan Fitzgerald as I claim descendancy from them. If you have further information about whether Sir Francis Bryan actually had a son, please share it.

Thank you.

V/r,
Bryan Watkins

[pgif...@umich.edu]

On Saturday, December 5, 1998 at 3:00:00 AM UTC-5, Beth Sloan wrote:
> I have a genealogy book called THE SPEAR AND THE SPINDLE...which gives the
> ancestors of Sir Francis Bryan and then tries to list some of his
> descendants. The following is a quote from Pgs. 47-48. According to this
> source, Francis Bryan does have issue, which I hope is true since I have
> claimed him through Morgan Bryan of Pa & NC. The line is followed past the
> 1600 cutoff for this list so I only went to 1650. There is much information
> about the ancestors of Francis Bryan since that is the main focus of the
> text. The book was complied by T.A. Fuller and printed by Heritage Books in
> 1993.

Whatever the merits of the earlier part of the genealogy are, you can safely ignore them as ancestors. Morgan Bryan was not descended from the English Francis Bryan. At one time I wrote a post explaining how these names got added. Morgan Bryan's DNA haplotype is confusing, since there are two different ones (through different sons), but one of them, which is likely to be Morgan's is the haplotype common to the O'Briens. Morgan (a common anglicization of an Irish name) is common within that "clan."

I'm a descendant of John Bryan (d. 1800 Rowan Co., NC) and for some time (until y-DNA testing appeared) I thought he was Morgan's son John.

Paul Gifford