Mary Howard's Mother - Anne or Elizabeth?
DavidBotts
Hi all:
Per the reference below, was Lady Mary Howard's mother (m. Thomas Howard b.
1473) - Anne of York or Elizabeth Stafford?
TIA
Dave Botts
The Database of One Million
Subject: Re: Lady Jane Gray or Grey
From: RWO <fitz...@concentric.net>
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 20:09:19 -0400
Message-ID: <339B49...@concentric.net>
Marlyn Lewis wrote:
>
> Majo06 wrote:
> >
> > no other info but told she is related
> > she was somehow connected with Edward of England
>
> Jane Grey had succeeded Edward VI, the only son of King Henry VIII to
> have survived infancy.
Correction, Henry VIII's bastard son by Bessie Blount, Henry Fitzroy, Duke of
Richmond survived to early manhood, and married Lady Mary Howard, daughter of
the Duke of Norfolk and neice of the Duke of Buckingham. He died ob TB, to
which Tudor males seemed particularly vulberable. He left no issue.
ED MANN
DavidBotts wrote:
>
> Hi all:
>
> Per the reference below, was Lady Mary Howard's mother (m. Thomas Howard b.
> 1473) - Anne of York or Elizabeth Stafford?
BxP says Elizabeth.
Descendants of Thomas Howard
1 Sir Thomas Howard b: 1473 d: 25 Aug 1554 ref #: BPci:1622
2 Anne Howard
+Sir John de Vere b: 14 Aug 1499 d: 1526 ref #: BPci:1911
+Anne Plantagenet b: 2 Nov 1475 d: 23 Nov 1511 ref #: F292:7iih
*2nd Wife of Thomas Howard:
+Elizabeth Stafford d: 1558 ref #: BxP:500
2 Sir Henry Howard b: 1517 d: 21 Jan 1546/47 ref #: BPci:1622
+Frances de Vere d: 30 Jun 1577 ref #: BPci:1911
2 Mary Howard ref #: BxP:284
2 Sir Thomas Howard ref #: BxP:284
--
FWIW; AFAIK; IMHO; YMMV; yadda, yadda, yadda.
Regards, Ed Mann mailto:edl...@mail2.lcia.com
References:
Ä = Weis, _Ancestral_Roots_, 7th ed.
AACPW = Roberts & Reitwiesner, _American Ancestors and Cousins of
the Princess of Wales_, [page].
AAP = Roberts, _Ancestors_of_American_Presidents_, [page] or
[Pres. # : page].
BP1 = _Burke's_Presidential_Families_, 1st ed. [page].
BPci = _Burke's_Peerage_, 101st ed., [page].
BRF = Weir, _Britain's_Royal_Families_, [page].
BxP = _Burke's_Dormant_&_Extinct_Peerages_, [page].
EC1 = Redlich, _Emperor_Charlemagne's_Descendants_, Vol I, [page].
EC2 = Langston & Buck, _Emperor_Charlemagne's_Descendants_, Vol II,
[page].
EC3 = Buck & Beard, _Emperor_Charlemagne's_Descendants_, Vol II,
[page].
F = Faris, _Plantagenet_Ancestry_, [page:para].
S = Stuart, _Royalty_for_Commoners_, 2d ed. Caveat emptor.
W = Weis, _Magna_Charta_Sureties,_1215_, 4th ed.
WFT = Broderbund's World Family Tree CD, [vol]:[num] Caveat emptor.
WMC = Wurt's Magna Charta, [vol]:[page]
Benjamin Hertzel
> 1 Sir Thomas Howard b: 1473 d: 25 Aug 1554 ref #: BPci:1622
> 2 Anne Howard
> +Sir John de Vere b: 14 Aug 1499 d: 1526 ref #: BPci:1911
> +Anne Plantagenet b: 2 Nov 1475 d: 23 Nov 1511 ref #: F292:7iih
> *2nd Wife of Thomas Howard:
> +Elizabeth Stafford d: 1558 ref #: BxP:500
> 2 Sir Henry Howard b: 1517 d: 21 Jan 1546/47 ref #: BPci:1622
> +Frances de Vere d: 30 Jun 1577 ref #: BPci:1911
Ed,
Do you know how these de Veres connect to the descendents of Aubrey de
Vere (1090 - 1141) who married Alice de Clare? Also, I have an Isabel de
Vere, who married William de Aton (died 1317) - Do you know if she is a
member of this same family?
Thanks.
Benjamin
ED MANN
About John de Vere, who d.s.p.:
Direct Descendants of Alberic de Vere
1 Alberic de Vere b: Bef. 1090 d: 15 May 1141 ref #: (Ä246-25)
+Alice de Clare d: Abt. 1163 ref #: W154-1
2 Sir Aubrey de Vere d: 26 Dec 1194 ref #: W154-2
*2nd Wife of Aubrey de Vere:
*3rd Wife of Aubrey de Vere:
+Agnes de Essex b: Abt. 1151 d: Aft. 1194 ref #: (Ä246-26)
3 Sir Robert de Vere b: Aft. 1164 d: Bef. 25 Oct 1221 ref #: W154-3
+Isabel de Bolbec d: Abt. 3 Feb 1244/45 ref #: (Ä246-27)
4 Sir Hugh de Vere b: Abt. 1210 d: Bef. 23 Dec 1263 ref #: W120-2
+Hawise de Quincy d: Aft. 1263 ref #: Ä60-28
5 Sir Robert de Vere b: 1240 d: Bef. 7 Sep 1296 ref #: W120-3
+Alice de Sanford d: 7 Sep 1312 ref #: (Ä60-29)
6 Sir Alfonso de Vere d: 20 Dec 1329 ref #: W120-4
+Joan Foliot ref #: (Ä79-30)
7 [10] Sir John de Vere b: Abt. 12 Mar 1311/12 d: 24 Jan 1359/60 ref
#: W120-5
+[9] Maud de Badlesmere b: 1310 d: 24 May 1366 ref #: (Ä79-31)
8 [8] Aubrey de Vere b: Abt. 1338 d: 23 Apr 1400
+[7] Alice FitzWalter d: 29 Apr 1401
9 [2] Richard de Vere b: Abt. 1385 d: 15 Feb 1416/17 ref #: BPci:1911
*2nd Wife of [2] Richard de Vere:
+[1] Alice Cergeaux b: Abt. 1384 d: 18 May 1452 ref #: F56:7
10 [4] Sir John de Vere b: 23 Apr 1408 d: 26 Feb 1462/63 ref #: F56:6
+[3] Elizabeth Howard b: Abt. 1410 d: Aft. 1474 ref #: BxP:476
11 George de Vere d: 1503 ref #: F56:5
+Margaret Stafford
12 Sir John de Vere b: 14 Aug 1499 d: 1526 ref #: BPci:1911
6 Joan de Vere d: 1293 ref #: W121-4
+Sir William de Warenne b: Abt. 1256 d: 15 Dec 1286 ref #: W151-3
7 Alice de Warenne d: Bef. 23 May 1338 ref #: W121-5
+Sir Edmund FitzAlan b: 1 May 1285 d: 17 Nov 1326 ref #: W134-6
8 [6] Sir Richard FitzAlan b: Abt. 1313 d: 24 Jan 1375/76 ref #:
W121-6
+[5] Isabel le Despencer b: Abt. 1312 ref #: F55:10
9 Sir Edmund FitzAlan b: Abt. 1327 d: Aft. 1376 ref #: F55:9
+Sybil de Montacute d: 30 Jan 1343/44 ref #: BxP:372
10 Philippe FitzAlan d: 13 Sep 1399 ref #: F55:8
+Sir Richard Cergeaux d: 30 Sep 1393
11 [1] Alice Cergeaux b: Abt. 1384 d: 18 May 1452 ref #: F56:7
*2nd Husband of [1] Alice Cergeaux:
+[2] Richard de Vere b: Abt. 1385 d: 15 Feb 1416/17 ref #:
BPci:1911
*3rd Husband of [1] Alice Cergeaux:
*2nd Wife of [6] Richard FitzAlan:
5 Isabel de Vere b: Abt. 1222 d: Aft. 1298 ref #: W124-2
+Sir John de Courtenay b: Abt. 1218 d: 3 May 1274 ref #: Ä50-29
6 Sir Hugh de Courtenay b: 25 Mar 1249 d: 28 Feb 1290/91 ref #:
W124-3
+Eleanor le Despenser d: 30 Sep 1328 ref #: (Ä222-34)
7 Edeline de Courtenay d: 1 Oct 1335 ref #: (Ä222-34)
+Sir Robert de Scales b: Abt. 1279 d: 20 Mar 1324/25 ref #:
(Ä222-34)
8 Sir Robert de Scales b: Abt. 1311 d: 1369 ref #: (Ä232-32)
+Catherine de Ufford ref #: (Ä232-32)
9 Margeret de Scales ref #: BxP:476
+Sir Robert Howard d: 1389 ref #: BPci:1622
10 Sir John Howard b: 1365 d: 17 Nov 1436 ref #: (Ä188-10)
+Margaret de Plaiz d: 1391 ref #: (Ä218-34)
11 Sir John Howard d: 1409 ref #: BxP:284
+Joan Walton ref #: BPci:1622
12 [3] Elizabeth Howard b: Abt. 1410 d: Aft. 1474 ref #: BxP:476
+[4] Sir John de Vere b: 23 Apr 1408 d: 26 Feb 1462/63 ref #:
F56:6
*2nd Wife of John Howard:
2 Alice de Vere b: Bef. 1141 d: Aft. 1184 ref #: W156-1
*2nd Husband of Alice de Vere:
+Sir Roger FitzRichard b: Bef. 1137 d: 1178 ref #: (Ä246D-26)
3 Alice de Vere ref #: (see notes)
+John FitzRichard d: 1179 ref #: BxP:310
4 Roger de Lacy b: Abt. 1171 d: 1211 ref #: BxP:310
+Maud de Clare b: Abt. 1184 d: 1213
5 Sir John de Lacy b: Abt. 1192 d: 22 Jul 1240 ref #: W54-1
+Margaret de Quincy d: Bef. 30 Mar 1266 ref #: W107-3
6 Maud de Lacy b: Abt. 1223 d: Bef. 10 Mar 1288/89 ref #: W107-4
+Sir Richard de Clare b: 4 Aug 1222 d: 15 Jul 1262 ref #: W28-3
7 Sir Gilbert de Clare b: 2 Sep 1243 d: 7 Dec 1295 ref #: W28-4
*2nd Wife of Gilbert de Clare:
+Joan Plantagenet b: 1272 d: 23 Apr 1307 ref #: F60:12
8 [16] Alainor de Clare b: Oct 1292 d: 30 Jun 1337 ref #: F61:11
+[15] Sir Hugh le Despencer d: 24 Nov 1326 ref #: W14-6
9 [5] Isabel le Despencer b: Abt. 1312 ref #: F55:10
+[6] Sir Richard FitzAlan b: Abt. 1313 d: 24 Jan 1375/76 ref #:
W121-6
*2nd Husband of [16] Alainor de Clare:
7 Sir Thomas de Clare b: Abt. 1245 d: 29 Aug 1287 ref #: W33-4
+Juliane FitzMaurice b: Abt. 1266 ref #: W144-4
8 [14] Maud de Clare b: Abt. 1279 d: 1 Feb 1324/25 ref #: W144-5
*2nd Husband of [14] Maud de Clare:
+[13] Sir Robert de Clifford b: 1274 d: 24 Jun 1314 ref #: W8-6
9 Idoine de Clifford b: Abt. 1303 d: 24 Aug 1365 ref #: W8-7
+Sir Henry de Percy b: 6 Feb 1300/01 d: 27 Feb 1351/52 ref #:
W152-5
10 [12] Alianore de Percy ref #: BxP:213
+[11] Sir John FitzWalter b: 1316 d: 1361 ref #: BxP:212
11 [7] Alice FitzWalter d: 29 Apr 1401
+[8] Aubrey de Vere b: Abt. 1338 d: 23 Apr 1400
8 Margaret de Clare d: 1333 ref #: W33-6
*2nd Husband of Margaret de Clare:
+Sir Bartholomew de Badlesmere b: Abt. 1275 d: 14 Apr 1322 ref #:
BxP:18
9 [9] Maud de Badlesmere b: 1310 d: 24 May 1366 ref #: (Ä79-31)
*2nd Husband of [9] Maud de Badlesmere:
+[10] Sir John de Vere b: Abt. 12 Mar 1311/12 d: 24 Jan 1359/60
ref #: W120-5
4
+Sir Alan of Galloway b: Abt. 1186 d: 1234 ref #: W139-1
5 Helen of Galloway b: Abt. 1208 d: Aft. 21 Nov 1245 ref #: W139-2
+Sir Roger de Quincy b: Abt. 1174 d: 25 Apr 1264 ref #: W74-2
6 Margaret de Quincy b: Abt. 1218 d: Abt. 11 Mar 1283/84 ref #: W88-3
+Sir William de Ferrers b: Abt. 1193 d: 24 Mar 1253/54 ref #:
Ä127-30
7 [18] Sir Robert de Ferrers b: Abt. 1239 d: 1279 ref #: W102-4
+[17] Alianore de Bohun d: 20 Feb 1313/14 ref #: Ä68-30
8 Alianore de Ferrers ref #: (Ä148-29)
+Sir Robert FitzWalter b: 1247 d: 18 Jan 1325/26 ref #: Ä148-29
9 Sir Robert FitzWalter b: 1300 d: 1328 ref #: BxP:212
+Joane de Multon ref #: BxP:212
10 [11] Sir John FitzWalter b: 1316 d: 1361 ref #: BxP:212
+[12] Alianore de Percy ref #: BxP:213
2 Juliana de Vere d: Aft. 1184 ref #: W155-1
+Sir Hugh Bigod d: Sep 1177 ref #: BxP:53
3 Sir Roger Bigod b: Abt. 1150 d: Bef. 12 Aug 1221 ref #: W3-1
+Ida
4 Sir Hugh Bigod d: Feb 1224/25 ref #: W3-2
+Maud Marshal b: Abt. 1192 d: 27 Mar 1248 ref #: W148-2
5 [20] Isabel Bigod b: Abt. 1210 d: 1239 ref #: W4-3
*2nd Husband of [20] Isabel Bigod:
+[19] Sir John FitzGeoffrey b: Abt. 1215 d: 23 Nov 1258 ref #:
Ä246C-28
6 Isabel FitzJohn b: Abt. 1240 ref #: W8-4
+Sir Robert de Vespont b: 1239 d: 7 Jun 1264 ref #: (Ä82-30)
7 Isabel de Vespont b: Abt. 1254 d: 14 May 1292 ref #: W8-5
+Roger de Clifford b: Abt. 1244 d: 6 Nov 1282 ref #: (Ä82-31)
8 [13] Sir Robert de Clifford b: 1274 d: 24 Jun 1314 ref #: W8-6
+[14] Maud de Clare b: Abt. 1279 d: 1 Feb 1324/25 ref #: W144-5
6 Maud FitzJohn b: Abt. 1244 d: Abt. 18 Apr 1301 ref #: W4-4
*2nd Husband of Maud FitzJohn:
+Sir William de Beauchamp b: 1237 d: Bef. 22 Jun 1298 ref #:
Ä86-29
7 Isabel de Beauchamp b: Abt. 1260 d: Bef. Jun 1306 ref #: W4-5
*2nd Husband of Isabel de Beauchamp:
+Sir Hugh le Despencer b: 1 Mar 1260/61 d: 27 Oct 1326 ref #:
BxP:166
8 [15] Sir Hugh le Despencer d: 24 Nov 1326 ref #: W14-6
+[16] Alainor de Clare b: Oct 1292 d: 30 Jun 1337 ref #: F61:11
*2nd Husband of Juliana de Vere:
*3rd Husband of Juliana de Vere:
2 Rohese de Vere d: Aft. Sep 1166 ref #: W159-1
+Sir Geoffrey de Mandeville b: 1092 d: 14 Sep 1144 ref #: BxP:352
3 Maud de Mandeville ref #: W159-2
+Piers de Lutegareshale d: Bef. 1198 ref #: (Ä246B-27)
4 Sir Geoffrey FitzPiers b: 1162 d: 14 Oct 1213 ref #: W160-3
+Beatrix de Say d: 19 Apr 1197 ref #: BxP:353
5 Maud FitzGeoffrey d: 27 Aug 1236 ref #: W160-4
+Sir Henry de Bohun b: 1176 d: 1 Jun 1220 ref #: W18-1
6 Sir Humphrey de Bohun V b: 1208 d: 24 Sep 1275 ref #: W18-2
+Maud d'Eu d: 14 Aug 1241 ref #: Ä123-29
7 Sir Humphrey de Bohun VI d: 27 Oct 1265 ref #: W18-3
+Eleanor de Braiose ref #: Ä68-29
8 [17] Alianore de Bohun d: 20 Feb 1313/14 ref #: Ä68-30
+[18] Sir Robert de Ferrers b: Abt. 1239 d: 1279 ref #: W102-4
*2nd Husband of Maud FitzGeoffrey:
*2nd Wife of Geoffrey FitzPiers:
+Avelina de Clare d: Bef. 1225 ref #: Ä246B-27
5 [19] Sir John FitzGeoffrey b: Abt. 1215 d: 23 Nov 1258 ref #:
Ä246C-28
+[20] Isabel Bigod b: Abt. 1210 d: 1239 ref #: W4-3
*2nd Husband of Maud de Mandeville:
*2nd Husband of Rohese de Vere:
ED MANN
Benjamin Hertzel wrote:
>
> > 1 Sir Thomas Howard b: 1473 d: 25 Aug 1554 ref #: BPci:1622
> > 2 Anne Howard
> > +Sir John de Vere b: 14 Aug 1499 d: 1526 ref #: BPci:1911
> > +Anne Plantagenet b: 2 Nov 1475 d: 23 Nov 1511 ref #: F292:7iih
> > *2nd Wife of Thomas Howard:
> > +Elizabeth Stafford d: 1558 ref #: BxP:500
> > 2 Sir Henry Howard b: 1517 d: 21 Jan 1546/47 ref #: BPci:1622
> > +Frances de Vere d: 30 Jun 1577 ref #: BPci:1911
>
> Ed,
>
> Do you know how these de Veres connect to the descendents of Aubrey de
> Vere (1090 - 1141) who married Alice de Clare? Also, I have an Isabel de
> Vere, who married William de Aton (died 1317) - Do you know if she is a
> member of this same family?
RE: Frances de Vere:
Direct Descendants of Alberic de Vere
1 Alberic de Vere b: Bef. 1090 d: 15 May 1141 ref #: (Ä246-25)
+Alice de Clare d: Abt. 1163 ref #: W154-1
2 Sir Aubrey de Vere d: 26 Dec 1194 ref #: W154-2
*2nd Wife of Aubrey de Vere:
*3rd Wife of Aubrey de Vere:
+Agnes de Essex b: Abt. 1151 d: Aft. 1194 ref #: (Ä246-26)
3 Sir Robert de Vere b: Aft. 1164 d: Bef. 25 Oct 1221 ref #: W154-3
+Isabel de Bolbec d: Abt. 3 Feb 1244/45 ref #: (Ä246-27)
4 Sir Hugh de Vere b: Abt. 1210 d: Bef. 23 Dec 1263 ref #: W120-2
+Hawise de Quincy d: Aft. 1263 ref #: Ä60-28
5 Sir Robert de Vere b: 1240 d: Bef. 7 Sep 1296 ref #: W120-3
+Alice de Sanford d: 7 Sep 1312 ref #: (Ä60-29)
6 Sir Alfonso de Vere d: 20 Dec 1329 ref #: W120-4
+Joan Foliot ref #: (Ä79-30)
7 [12] Sir John de Vere b: Abt. 12 Mar 1311/12 d: 24 Jan 1359/60 ref
#: W120-5
+[11] Maud de Badlesmere b: 1310 d: 24 May 1366 ref #: (Ä79-31)
8 [10] Aubrey de Vere b: Abt. 1338 d: 23 Apr 1400
+[9] Alice FitzWalter d: 29 Apr 1401
9 [2] Richard de Vere b: Abt. 1385 d: 15 Feb 1416/17 ref #: BPci:1911
*2nd Wife of [2] Richard de Vere:
+[1] Alice Cergeaux b: Abt. 1384 d: 18 May 1452 ref #: F56:7
10 [4] Sir Robert de Vere ref #: BPci:1911
+[3] Joan Courtenay ref #: Ä6-33
11 John de Vere ref #: BPci:1911
+Alice Kilrington ref #: BPci:1911
12 Sir John de Vere d: 21 Mar 1538/39 ref #: BPci:1911
*2nd Wife of John de Vere:
+Elizabeth Trussel ref #: BxP:540
13 Frances de Vere d: 30 Jun 1577 ref #: BPci:1911
6 Joan de Vere d: 1293 ref #: W121-4
+Sir William de Warenne b: Abt. 1256 d: 15 Dec 1286 ref #: W151-3
7 Alice de Warenne d: Bef. 23 May 1338 ref #: W121-5
+Sir Edmund FitzAlan b: 1 May 1285 d: 17 Nov 1326 ref #: W134-6
8 [8] Sir Richard FitzAlan b: Abt. 1313 d: 24 Jan 1375/76 ref #:
W121-6
+[7] Isabel le Despencer b: Abt. 1312 ref #: F55:10
9 Sir Edmund FitzAlan b: Abt. 1327 d: Aft. 1376 ref #: F55:9
+Sybil de Montacute d: 30 Jan 1343/44 ref #: BxP:372
10 Philippe FitzAlan d: 13 Sep 1399 ref #: F55:8
+Sir Richard Cergeaux d: 30 Sep 1393
11 [1] Alice Cergeaux b: Abt. 1384 d: 18 May 1452 ref #: F56:7
*2nd Husband of [1] Alice Cergeaux:
+[2] Richard de Vere b: Abt. 1385 d: 15 Feb 1416/17 ref #:
BPci:1911
*3rd Husband of [1] Alice Cergeaux:
*2nd Wife of [8] Richard FitzAlan:
5 Isabel de Vere b: Abt. 1222 d: Aft. 1298 ref #: W124-2
+Sir John de Courtenay b: Abt. 1218 d: 3 May 1274 ref #: Ä50-29
6 Sir Hugh de Courtenay b: 25 Mar 1249 d: 28 Feb 1290/91 ref #:
W124-3
+Eleanor le Despenser d: 30 Sep 1328 ref #: (Ä222-34)
7 [6] Sir Hugh de Courtenay d: 23 Dec 1340 ref #: W125-4
+[5] Agnes de St. John d: 11 Jun 1345 ref #: Ä262-32
8 [22] Sir Hugh de Courtenay b: 12 Jul 1303 d: 2 May 1377 ref #:
W126-5
+[21] Margaret de Bohun b: 3 Apr 1311 d: 16 Dec 1391 ref #: F72:10
9 Sir Edward de Courtenay d: 1372 ref #: Ä6-31
+Emmeline d'Auney ref #: BxP:141
10 [20] Sir Hugh Courtenay d: 15 Mar 1424/25 ref #: Ä6-32
+[19] Philippa l'Arcedekene ref #: BxP:8
11 [3] Joan Courtenay ref #: Ä6-33
*2nd Husband of [3] Joan Courtenay:
+[4] Sir Robert de Vere ref #: BPci:1911
*2nd Wife of [20] Hugh Courtenay:
2 Alice de Vere b: Bef. 1141 d: Aft. 1184 ref #: W156-1
*2nd Husband of Alice de Vere:
+Sir Roger FitzRichard b: Bef. 1137 d: 1178 ref #: (Ä246D-26)
3 Sir Robert FitzRoger b: Bef. 1177 d: 1214 ref #: W156-2
+Margaret de Chesney ref #: (Ä246D-27)
4 Alice FitzRoger d: Bef. 1225 ref #: Ä246D-28
+Piers FitzHerbert b: Bef. 1185 d: Aft. 18 May 1235 ref #: Ä237-6
5 Sir Reginald FitzPeter b: Bef. 1228 d: 4 May 1286 ref #: W166-5
+Alice de Stanford d: Aft. 1263 ref #: (Ä262-30)
6 Alice FitzReynold d: Aft. 1304 ref #: Ä262-31
+Sir John de St. John d: Sep 1302 ref #: (Ä262-31)
7 [5] Agnes de St. John d: 11 Jun 1345 ref #: Ä262-32
+[6] Sir Hugh de Courtenay d: 23 Dec 1340 ref #: W125-4
*2nd Wife of Reginald FitzPeter:
3 Alice de Vere ref #: (see notes)
+John FitzRichard d: 1179 ref #: BxP:310
4 Roger de Lacy b: Abt. 1171 d: 1211 ref #: BxP:310
+Maud de Clare b: Abt. 1184 d: 1213
5 Sir John de Lacy b: Abt. 1192 d: 22 Jul 1240 ref #: W54-1
+Margaret de Quincy d: Bef. 30 Mar 1266 ref #: W107-3
6 Maud de Lacy b: Abt. 1223 d: Bef. 10 Mar 1288/89 ref #: W107-4
+Sir Richard de Clare b: 4 Aug 1222 d: 15 Jul 1262 ref #: W28-3
7 Sir Gilbert de Clare b: 2 Sep 1243 d: 7 Dec 1295 ref #: W28-4
*2nd Wife of Gilbert de Clare:
+Joan Plantagenet b: 1272 d: 23 Apr 1307 ref #: F60:12
8 [18] Alainor de Clare b: Oct 1292 d: 30 Jun 1337 ref #: F61:11
+[17] Sir Hugh le Despencer d: 24 Nov 1326 ref #: W14-6
9 [7] Isabel le Despencer b: Abt. 1312 ref #: F55:10
+[8] Sir Richard FitzAlan b: Abt. 1313 d: 24 Jan 1375/76 ref #:
W121-6
*2nd Husband of [18] Alainor de Clare:
7 Sir Thomas de Clare b: Abt. 1245 d: 29 Aug 1287 ref #: W33-4
+Juliane FitzMaurice b: Abt. 1266 ref #: W144-4
8 [16] Maud de Clare b: Abt. 1279 d: 1 Feb 1324/25 ref #: W144-5
*2nd Husband of [16] Maud de Clare:
+[15] Sir Robert de Clifford b: 1274 d: 24 Jun 1314 ref #: W8-6
9 Idoine de Clifford b: Abt. 1303 d: 24 Aug 1365 ref #: W8-7
+Sir Henry de Percy b: 6 Feb 1300/01 d: 27 Feb 1351/52 ref #:
W152-5
10 [14] Alianore de Percy ref #: BxP:213
+[13] Sir John FitzWalter b: 1316 d: 1361 ref #: BxP:212
11 [9] Alice FitzWalter d: 29 Apr 1401
+[10] Aubrey de Vere b: Abt. 1338 d: 23 Apr 1400
8 Margaret de Clare d: 1333 ref #: W33-6
*2nd Husband of Margaret de Clare:
+Sir Bartholomew de Badlesmere b: Abt. 1275 d: 14 Apr 1322 ref #:
BxP:18
9 [11] Maud de Badlesmere b: 1310 d: 24 May 1366 ref #: (Ä79-31)
*2nd Husband of [11] Maud de Badlesmere:
+[12] Sir John de Vere b: Abt. 12 Mar 1311/12 d: 24 Jan 1359/60
ref #: W120-5
4
+Sir Alan of Galloway b: Abt. 1186 d: 1234 ref #: W139-1
5 Helen of Galloway b: Abt. 1208 d: Aft. 21 Nov 1245 ref #: W139-2
+Sir Roger de Quincy b: Abt. 1174 d: 25 Apr 1264 ref #: W74-2
6 Margaret de Quincy b: Abt. 1218 d: Abt. 11 Mar 1283/84 ref #: W88-3
+Sir William de Ferrers b: Abt. 1193 d: 24 Mar 1253/54 ref #:
Ä127-30
7 [24] Sir Robert de Ferrers b: Abt. 1239 d: 1279 ref #: W102-4
+[23] Alianore de Bohun d: 20 Feb 1313/14 ref #: Ä68-30
8 Alianore de Ferrers ref #: (Ä148-29)
+Sir Robert FitzWalter b: 1247 d: 18 Jan 1325/26 ref #: Ä148-29
9 Sir Robert FitzWalter b: 1300 d: 1328 ref #: BxP:212
+Joane de Multon ref #: BxP:212
10 [13] Sir John FitzWalter b: 1316 d: 1361 ref #: BxP:212
+[14] Alianore de Percy ref #: BxP:213
2 Juliana de Vere d: Aft. 1184 ref #: W155-1
+Sir Hugh Bigod d: Sep 1177 ref #: BxP:53
3 Sir Roger Bigod b: Abt. 1150 d: Bef. 12 Aug 1221 ref #: W3-1
+Ida
4 Sir Hugh Bigod d: Feb 1224/25 ref #: W3-2
+Maud Marshal b: Abt. 1192 d: 27 Mar 1248 ref #: W148-2
5 [26] Isabel Bigod b: Abt. 1210 d: 1239 ref #: W4-3
*2nd Husband of [26] Isabel Bigod:
+[25] Sir John FitzGeoffrey b: Abt. 1215 d: 23 Nov 1258 ref #:
Ä246C-28
6 Isabel FitzJohn b: Abt. 1240 ref #: W8-4
+Sir Robert de Vespont b: 1239 d: 7 Jun 1264 ref #: (Ä82-30)
7 Isabel de Vespont b: Abt. 1254 d: 14 May 1292 ref #: W8-5
+Roger de Clifford b: Abt. 1244 d: 6 Nov 1282 ref #: (Ä82-31)
8 [15] Sir Robert de Clifford b: 1274 d: 24 Jun 1314 ref #: W8-6
+[16] Maud de Clare b: Abt. 1279 d: 1 Feb 1324/25 ref #: W144-5
6 Maud FitzJohn b: Abt. 1244 d: Abt. 18 Apr 1301 ref #: W4-4
*2nd Husband of Maud FitzJohn:
+Sir William de Beauchamp b: 1237 d: Bef. 22 Jun 1298 ref #:
Ä86-29
7 Isabel de Beauchamp b: Abt. 1260 d: Bef. Jun 1306 ref #: W4-5
*2nd Husband of Isabel de Beauchamp:
+Sir Hugh le Despencer b: 1 Mar 1260/61 d: 27 Oct 1326 ref #:
BxP:166
8 [17] Sir Hugh le Despencer d: 24 Nov 1326 ref #: W14-6
+[18] Alainor de Clare b: Oct 1292 d: 30 Jun 1337 ref #: F61:11
4 Margaret Bigod ref #: W7-2
+William de Hastings ref #: BxP:266
5 Sir Henry de Hastings b: 1200 d: Aug 1250 ref #: W7-3
+Ada de Huntingdon b: 1 Jan 1199/00 d: Aft. 1241 ref #: Ä93-27
6 Sir Henry de Hastings b: Abt. 1235 d: Abt. 5 Mar 1268/69 ref #:
Ä93A-28
+Joan de Cantilupe d: Bef. Jun 1271 ref #: BxP:101
7 Sir John de Hastings b: 6 May 1262 d: 1313 ref #: Ä93A-29
+Isabel de Valence d: 3 Oct 1305 ref #: BxP:545
8 Elizabeth de Hastings b: Abt. 1295 ref #: Ä93A-30
+Sir Rodger de Grey b: Abt. 1279 d: 6 Mar 1352/53 ref #: BxP:246
9 Juliane de Grey d: Abt. 1 Dec 1361 ref #: EC3:211
+Sir John Talbot d: 20 Sep 1355 ref #: BxP:526
10 John Talbot b: Bef. 3 May 1337 d: 18 Feb 1374/75 ref #: EC3:211
+Katherine d: Bef. 9 Apr 1381 ref #: (EC3:211)
11 Elizabeth Talbot d: 3 Aug 1407 ref #: BxP:526
+Sir Warine le Archdekne d: 1400 ref #: BxP:8
12 [19] Philippa l'Arcedekene ref #: BxP:8
+[20] Sir Hugh Courtenay d: 15 Mar 1424/25 ref #: Ä6-32
*2nd Wife of John de Hastings:
*2nd Husband of Juliana de Vere:
*3rd Husband of Juliana de Vere:
2 Rohese de Vere d: Aft. Sep 1166 ref #: W159-1
+Sir Geoffrey de Mandeville b: 1092 d: 14 Sep 1144 ref #: BxP:352
3 Maud de Mandeville ref #: W159-2
+Piers de Lutegareshale d: Bef. 1198 ref #: (Ä246B-27)
4 Sir Geoffrey FitzPiers b: 1162 d: 14 Oct 1213 ref #: W160-3
+Beatrix de Say d: 19 Apr 1197 ref #: BxP:353
5 Maud FitzGeoffrey d: 27 Aug 1236 ref #: W160-4
+Sir Henry de Bohun b: 1176 d: 1 Jun 1220 ref #: W18-1
6 Sir Humphrey de Bohun V b: 1208 d: 24 Sep 1275 ref #: W18-2
+Maud d'Eu d: 14 Aug 1241 ref #: Ä123-29
7 Sir Humphrey de Bohun VI d: 27 Oct 1265 ref #: W18-3
+Eleanor de Braiose ref #: Ä68-29
8 Sir Humphrey de Bohun VII b: Abt. 1249 d: 31 Dec 1298 ref #: W18-4
+Maud de Fiennes ref #: Ä152A-29
9 Sir Humphrey de Bohun VIII b: Abt. 1276 d: 16 Mar 1321/22 ref #:
W18-5
+Elizabeth Plantagenet b: 7 Aug 1282 d: 5 May 1316 ref #: F24:12
10 [21] Margaret de Bohun b: 3 Apr 1311 d: 16 Dec 1391 ref #: F72:10
+[22] Sir Hugh de Courtenay b: 12 Jul 1303 d: 2 May 1377 ref #:
W126-5
8 [23] Alianore de Bohun d: 20 Feb 1313/14 ref #: Ä68-30
+[24] Sir Robert de Ferrers b: Abt. 1239 d: 1279 ref #: W102-4
*2nd Husband of Maud FitzGeoffrey:
*2nd Wife of Geoffrey FitzPiers:
+Avelina de Clare d: Bef. 1225 ref #: Ä246B-27
5 [25] Sir John FitzGeoffrey b: Abt. 1215 d: 23 Nov 1258 ref #:
Ä246C-28
+[26] Isabel Bigod b: Abt. 1210 d: 1239 ref #: W4-3
ED MANN
Benjamin Hertzel wrote:
>
> Also, I have an Isabel de
> Vere, who married William de Aton (died 1317) - Do you know if she is a
> member of this same family?
I've never seen her pinned down.
Leslie Mahler
Benjamin Hertzel wrote:
>
> Also, I have an Isabel de
> Vere, who married William de Aton (died 1317) - Do you know if she is
a
> member of this same family?
I've never seen her pinned down.
---- From the Complete Peerage, under the title Aton, her parents are
listed as Simon de Vere of Goxhill, Lincoln and Sproatley, Holderness,
by his wife Ada Bertram.
Leslie
William Addams Reitwiesner
david...@aol.com (DavidBotts) wrote:
>Hi all:
>
>Per the reference below, was Lady Mary Howard's mother (m. Thomas Howard b.
>1473) - Anne of York or Elizabeth Stafford?
Elizabeth Stafford.
William Addams Reitwiesner
wr...@erols.com
"Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc."
Reedpcgen
>> <BR>
>> Also, I have an Isabel de<BR>
>> Vere, who married William de Aton (died 1317) - Do you know if she is a<BR>
>> member of this same family?<BR>
><BR>
>I've never seen her pinned down.<BR>
><BR>
CP 1:324 says that William Aton, of West Ayton, Yorks., married Isabel de were,
daughter of Sir Simon de Vere of Goxhill, Lincs., and Sproatley in Holderness,
Yors. Isabel was heir of her mother, Ada, 4th sister and in her issue coheir
of Roger Bertram of Mitford. Sir Simon had married previously to his union
with Ada, and by that wife had a son also named Simon, his father's heir, who
gave the manor of Bottesford, co. Lincs., to his uncle, Roger de Veer, prior of
the knights Hospitallers in 1270.
William Farrer, in his Honors and Knights' Fees 2:209, says that Joscelin held
2 1/2 car. in Scotton in 1086. Guy de Vermis held there in the Lindsey survey
(1115-18). Guy de Ver, son of Guy, held there in 1166. Guy left a daughter
and heir, Gundreda, who married Adam, son of Robert de Goushill. His son
appears to have taken the mother's surname, as Walter de Ver owed a debt to the
king in 1205, when Walter's father was described as Adam son of Robert. Walter
de Ver held one fee in Scotton in 1212, and in 1211, had levied a fine dealing
with lands of his inheritance in Sproatley, Yorks., and Goxhill, Lincs. He
died before 27 Jan. 1220, by which time his relict Sibil had become wife of
Nicholas de Chevincurt. This Walter's eldest son was named Simon. Simon de
Ver, knight, son of the said Simon, was against the king in 1265. He was
apparently dead by 1267. The grant in 1270 to his uncle Roger was made by Sir
Simon de Ver, knt., son and heir of Sir Simon de Ver, knt., son of Walter de
Ver.
Be warned that many of the printed accounts of the Bertrams of Mitford are
incorrect. CP has it right.
pcr
James C. Woodard
ED MANN wrote in message <3577594E...@mail2.lcia.com>...
>Benjamin Hertzel wrote:
>Direct Descendants of Alberic de Vere
>
> 1 Alberic de Vere b: Bef. 1090 d: 15 May 1141 ref #: (Ä246-25)
> +Alice de Clare d: Abt. 1163 ref #: W154-1
Ed,
My copy of AR7 Makes the husband of Alice de Clare Aubrey de Vere II, is
there a reason you have him as Alberic? If so what is your source?
TIA
Jim
Nancy
> ED MANN wrote in message <3577594E...@mail2.lcia.com>...
> >Benjamin Hertzel wrote:
> >
> > 1 Alberic de Vere b: Bef. 1090 d: 15 May 1141 ref #: (Ä246-25)
> > +Alice de Clare d: Abt. 1163 ref #: W154-1
> My copy of AR7 Makes the husband of Alice de Clare Aubrey de Vere II, is
> there a reason you have him as Alberic? If so what is your source?
> TIA
> Jim
In Roger Bertram's Inquisition post mortem of 1312 Roger had a daughter Agnes who left no heirs & three sisters-
Agnes married to Thomas not William FitzWilliam, Isabel who married Philip and not Norman Darcy & had a son Norman,
and Christiana de Ros who married 1st a Penburn.
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/84319c3b-0cb7-4f26-9b70-6d1ca80e1d18